Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Aftermarket leather may look nice but how will it appear in 4 or 5 years?
Eitehr way it doesn't change the fact that the 8-passenger model Sienna is an LE, which is rather stripped down.
hmmm...that post of mine on cargo carriers and MIL didn't seem to come out the way I intended . Perhaps a Fruedian slip?
Though on last years trip to Florida I did see a few cargo carriers had fallen off their vehicles, busted open, and abandoned along side the interstate. So, some of you out there aren't using enough sedatives when putting the ole bat(MIL) in storeage for long trips. Ya got put some sleeping bags, luggage and other nick knacks in with MIL...that way she can't get those knees up to kick
the cargo carrier open and escape. :sick:
Can you add the Entourage and the Quest to this thread?
Also, I think the Venture should be changed to the Uplander.
Thanks.
I have a gut feeling the dealership could go lower, but the price they're offering is below TMV.
I thought I would share some of my driving thoughts from the various manufacturers:
- Toyota Sienna (LE and XLE). The Sienna was a very solid minivan that is well engineered. The seats in all rows were very comfortable, the dashboard was laid out nicely. Overall, my wife and I really liked the way the Sienna drove, it handled well, had a sharp turning radius, had brisk acceleration, and seems very solid. Here are the factors we did not like:
- Packaging. What we hated was the various packages Toyota has for the Sienna. I insisted on stability control and hoped to purchase leather, but the Toyota XLE with leather was priced nearly $2K more than the Odyssey EX-L we purchased.
- Performance/handling. The Odyssey was faster, and handled more to my liking (like a sedan). I actually liked the interior on the Odyssey slightly better after driving them back-to-back.
- The worst part of the experience was the greasy sales manager at Lustine Toyota (Woodbridge, VA) who would not give me a breakdown in costs on paper and a final price. He kept telling me that the Odyssey price I was quoted by the Honda dealer was "too good to be true" and that first we needed to decide which van we wanted and then he could talk price. Needless to say, I informed him that I would deal with a different Toyota dealer if I decided to purchase a Sienna and walked out. I hate high-pressure sales tactics...
- Safety. Overall, the Toyota has decent safety ratings per the IIHS, but received a "Poor" for rear impact collisions (compared to the Odysseys "Marginal"). I also did not like the fact that stability control was an option and not standard like the Honda.
- Chrysler Town and Country (touring). Was actually very surprised with this minivan (having driven a Dodge Grand Caravan rental recently). This van was a loaded (leather, DVD, power liftgate, power doors, etc), model and had the 3.8L V6. First of all, this van drove my better than the Dodge GC we drove (I believe the rental had the 3.3L engine). The engine was much quieter during acceleration than the Dodge GC and had a ton of features for about 26K before TT&L. We drove this van as an afterthought really thiking it would come down to either the Toyota or Honda. The T&C's Stow and Go is a nice feature, and we loved the power liftgate and color options. The leather was not as plush as the Honda or Toyota, but it was not bad. As much as we liked this van, we picked the Honda based on these factors:
- The T&C was not nearly as fun to drive as the Honda. The Honda was quieter, was much much faster, and handled much more like a car than the T&C.
- The T&C's Stow&Go seats were uncomfortable. They would be adequate for children, or short trips, but I felt they would be uncomfotable on a long trip for an adult.
- The overall fit and finish was not as nice as Honda or Toyota. The buttons and controls were poorly layed out (I felt as though they just bunched everything together) and the plastic controls felt very cheap.
- We were also concerned with regards to reliability and safety on this van. Both Honda and Toyota get better overall safety and reliabily ratings.
- Lastly, we were concerned with resale. Even though this van was severly marked down, we were concerned about trying to sell this van down the road.
That said, the T&C had the most features for the money and had more than enough power. It handled well and is a great value. My conclusions are that all three of these vans are solid buys. I just felt that the Honda was the overall winner with regards to safety, reliability, performance and handling, functionality and features, resale, and price.
The Ocean Mist Metallic was our favorite color for the Odyssey EX with cloth interior and you got an EX-L for about $1,000 LESS than the best price we were quoted for an EX cloth without your extras.
- I received several Internet quotes on the Kia (did not put out feelers for the Hyundai as I was not aware that they were available yet), and comparing the Kia EX with the luxury package and the power package, it was coming in slightly higher than a similarly equipped Honda Odyssey EX-L.
- Although Kia/Hyundai have come a long way with regards to liability, I still think that Honda and Toyota have a much longer proven track record.
- Was concerned about paying slightly more than invoice for a vehicle that may have $3K in rebates in 6-12 months. This would kill resale value.
- Lastly, this vehicle is a completely redesigned model. I usually like to wait at least a year for the dealer to "work out the kinks".
There is no doubt that the Kia is a very nice minivan, but based on the deal I got on the Honda, the Kia was actually slightly more expensive for almost the exact same features. In another 6-12 months, the Kia (with steep rebates) will most likely be 2K cheaper.
This topic's for discussing shopping for minivans, so I've moved your post to the discussion below, where it's more likely to get the answer's you're looking for:
Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler Minivan Problems & Solutions, post #3918
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
It seems as thought Honda is getting more competitive with pricing these vans. It also helps to shop at the end of the month and get as many quotes as possible. Some of the quotes I received came in just below MSRP! In addition, I am fortunate that I live near so many Honda dealers. I was able to get quotes from about eight dealers all within 25 miles of my house.
I also have to thank you for all your comments on the Grand Caravans. We came very close to buying a loaded Chrysler Town and Country (Touring). Anyone thinking about buying either a Toyota or Honda should take the time to drive this van. IMHO, the T&C and Dodge GC SXT vans probably offer the best overall value for the money. The Toyota and Honda just felt more solid, drove better, and had better fit and finsish.
Can you add the Entourage and the Quest to this thread?
Also, I think the Venture should be changed to the Uplander.
Done But feel free to discuss shopping for any van you like here, even if you don't see its name up top. I've added the Uplander but have left the Venture in the description -- quite a few people come in here asking about purchasing used vehicles, as well as new ones.
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
Any suggestions I will appreciate.
I went to the Kia daler to ask this about the Sedona, but they said there's a bench only for the third row.
Thank you,
kansas
As another option, the right side 2nd row seat on the MPV can slide left to a more central position. I think the 7 seat Odyssey can also do this.
Good luck,
Vic
The 8-passenger Sienna (available on CE and LE trims) not only has a middle seat in the second row, but that seat can also be moved forward for easier access to a child from the front seat. This might be a nice feature for you, though moving the seat to that position is some effort so you wouldn't want to be moving it back and forth daily. The more common 7-passenger Sienna has a passenger side second row seat that can be moved toward the center like the Odyssey and MPV, though it is a little more difficult to move it.
Children are very safe when properly restrained in any rear seating position. This is particularly true of kids in 5-point harnesses, especially rear-facing models. These seats offer an added degree of side impact protection. I would have no concerns having a child in an outboard rear seat of today's top minivans, assuming they are properly restrained in a correctly installed child seat. Carseats with a 5-point harness provide additional side impact protection, especially rear-facing infant and convertible seats. In most minivans, you also have the advantage of height and a few more inches of space from the captain's chair to the door and that helps, too. Finally, side curtain airbags are another advantage of most current minivans.
Also, we are finding that while the center may still be the safest position, it may not be as advantageous as once thought. Being outboard does put you closer to one side of the vehicle, but that risk is almost balanced out by the much greater space to a side impact on the far side.
I have an 8-passenger Odyssey and could move the passenger side seat in the second row toward the center. I do this sometimes to accomodate access to the third row, but normally I keep it moved to the outside and that is where our 1-year old is seated in a rear-facing restraint. I am very confident he could survive many crashes that an adult passenger in a seatbelt might not.
I definitely recommend driving all the vans (Toyota, Honda, Kia/Hyundai, Chrysler/Dodge) before buying a van. It seems to me that each van has its strengths and weaknesses and, depending upon your needs, you may be surprised.
The thing that impressed me about the Odyssey was resale. I briefly looked for some used 05-06 Odyssey's and there was little selection, and not much price difference from a new one. These vans hold their value very well and are also in demand.
..Just curious..does anyone happen to know if side-curtain airbags can be added on a vehicle after-market? I was wondering if it's possible to have it done on a Kia Sedona (o3). I know the new models come with the side airbags, but I really can't justify trading our current Sedona in and starting all over again on payments (especially when it's running great and we really enjoy it). Thanks in advance for any input..
The Odyssey has better designed 2nd row seating than the Sienna and also has a better 3rd row folding mechanism than the Sienna.
I went to the Kia (Sedona) and the Nissan (Quest) dealers to check how they arrange the second row, but unfortunately the seats cannot be moved. In the Quest you cannot even open the windows for the 2nd and 3rd row. :-(
Next stop will be to check the MPV, since some of you mentioned it here.
Thank you for all the insightful information.
I want to know if a 4 year old Caravan with 80k-100k is worth buying.
For instance I would not buy a small 4cyl. car with over 100k. The engine will probably start having problems soon.
So if I buy a 2002-2003 Caravan with 80k to 100k, would I just be asking for trouble?
After all, that's 25k+ a year.
This is info Caravan owners might know that doesn't show up in places like Edmunds or Kelly or Cars.com.
I hope the forum members can help.
Thanks
The Caravan eC and SE had a 2.4L inline 4 cyl engine while the Sport had a 3.3L V6. The Grand Caravan came with a 3.3L V6 in the GC SE, GC Sport and GC eL. The 3.8L V6 was standard on the GC eX, GC LE, and GC SXT.
Engines really aren't that problematic anymore if properly maintained. 200k miles is fairly common without much effort. Transmissions on the other hand are less reliable in all brands so there's a big gamble there no matter what. I'd still prefer the one with highway miles. A transmission can be rebuilt for $2,000 which isn't that much in the scheme of things.
I also agree with getting a high-mileage newer car vs the low-milage older one; My grandmother drove my 1996 for 110,000 miles or so before giving it to me for my 15th birthday. It only had one problem ever with her, and was fixed under warranty (o2 sensor). As for me, I've only had to replace two things (knock on the proverbial wood if you please) and have never been stranded, even though just yesterday I clicked to 161,000 miles.
Honda's Acura division also posted record car sales for the month, with individual records set for the TL and TSX sedans.
Honda seems to be faring well lately!
You can read more about the records here:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/05/02/005420.html
It's no wonder the Accord Hybrid doesn't sell at record levels...when an Accord I-4s are achieving mid and upper 30s on the highway, for about $10k+ less than the hybrid.
Just bought my first Honda (Odyssey EX-L) and I have to say it is a great minivan. Being my first minivan (and shamefully, I have to admit that I was a little against buying a minivan but my wife insisted), I cannot stay away from it. Since we bought it, I have only driven my SUV (Mazda Tribute) to work and back and find myself finding excuses to drive the Odyssey. It is a much smoother and luxurious ride than my Tribute (loaded V6 with all the options). I swear the Odyssey is faster and handles much better. It is definitely more quiet and is more comfortable. I love the Odyssey cockpit, all the controls are in the right places and easy to use (intuitive comes to mind). the power sliding doors are wonderful, and it is so much easier handling a car seat (we have a nine month old) in the van vs the Tribute, or our previous sedan (Nissan Altima).
Anyone on the fence buying a minivan for fear of hurting your image, go drive the Odyssey! (I have to admit though, I also like the exterior of the 06 Sienna very much, especially the front end. It looks Lexus-like)...
But for me, and many buyers, the 166 hp I-4 is more than enough power, and the low gas bills are just icing on the cake! (not to mention the $$ saved on initial purchase vs. the Hybrid).
That looks nice, kind of reminds me of the new Sedona (which isn't a bad thing), but it isn't the radical design some claimed was coming. Just a natural evolution of the DCX.
That does look nice.
But I thought the radical part was going to be the 300-inspired front grill. Still have to see that...
There is no grill or headlights, but you can see part of the design language that is going to be used. Looks most similar to a Pacifica best I can tell.
Wow the future minivan market is looking pretty good for consumer choice. Between the Odyssey, Sienna, new Sedona/Entourage, and future DCX van it will be a tight field. It will be interesting to see what Honda and Toyota do in in the next couple years to counter some of these worthy challengers.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda add more standard equipment at no charge (tire pressure monitoring, backup sensors, power liftgate, better radio get my vote!)
Also, anyone know if the short wheel base version will still exist with the redesign?
The best for us personally would be a short wheel base version with Stow and Go, though I would guess there isn't enough floor length to do this in a short wheel base version.
I loved the Stow N Go (guarantee more minivans will have this feature in the upcoming years), but both my wife and I felt the seats were uncomfortable for long trips (which we like to take with friends). If DCX addresses this issue with and adds a more powerful engine w/ at least a 5sp tranny, they will have addressed most of my concerns (along with an updated interior with better materials as you have already mentioned). Too bad we could not have waited a few more years to buy (I never like to buy any vehicle in its first model year or after a major refresh).
My only question is price. Addressing all these areas will not be cheap, I wonder how much it will drive-up the cost of the DCX minivan lineup?
Kia and Hyundai have proven you can offer a loaded van at a great price but Hyundai (they own Kia) has also seen profitability plunge. If they ever want to be as profitable as Toyota/Honda they are going to have to stop offering massive incentives to get people to buy their vans. I see Chrysler/GM/Ford facing the same issue (although GM/Ford seem to be adopting a model where the MSRP/Invoice prices are lower and they are trying to stop offering massive incentives). I hope DCX adopts this model as well. I was shocked at the MSRP/Invoice prices of the DCX vans we drove compared to what we could pay for them (in some cases it was almost 10K off MSRP).
Hopefully there will be a much larger differentiation between the vans as opposed to the Dodge Durango/Chrysler Aspen twins. These things are nearly identical!