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Are our expectations out of line? Since the only minivans with fold-down seating (that I can find) are the '02+ MPV, '05+ Grand Caravan, (and the ubiquitous Odys and Sienna), I feel like we're really pushed into one of those 4...and those are just out of our price range. Unless we look at an Ody with 100k+ miles...which I'm not a fan of.
Looking at some of the other forums (i.e. MPV pricing experiences) there are some terrific deals people have gotten on new '05s, but we must have missed that window. I'd be willing to go up to $11k-$12k for a newer/lower mileage vehicle, but it appears there just isn't that middle range around here. (Living in Johnson County probably doesn't help.)
We've driven about every model of minivan, (Venture, Silhouette, Ody, Villager, Windstar, MPV, Freestar) and really have only felt good about the MPV and the Ody. The Silhouette was pretty good, but didn't have the storage options as the MPV or Ody.
Isn't it odd, with all the posts and reviews bemoaning "no navigation system option," and "where's the stabilitrak/whatever" that we get hung up on those darn seating arrangements? We seriously care less about DVD players and power-whatever--we just want a van that is easy to move people and things in, and is safe.
I'm frustrated that it has taken US automakers years to change the basic diferentiator of the minivan--seating--and instead they waste time and cycles building these niche flash-in-the-pan vehicles (*cough*SSR*cough*HHR) that don't deliver value to families. It would at least give us more options in regards to models/manuf to look at if that basic function was in the offerings from Chevy/Ford.
Sorry, a bit of a rant there probably best suited for another forum.
Anyway, just frustrated and wondering if others have any insite, or if there are some KC shoppers around that can point to some good lots. We've hit plenty of them around Overland Park/Olathe and a few in Raytown (shudder).
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaOdyssey/Images/RearSeat2.jpg
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/ToyotaSienna/Images2004/RearSeat2.jpg
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/DodgeCaravan/Images2005/RearSeat.jpg
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/FordFreeStyle/Images/RearSeat2.jpg
On the other hand, both the Freestyle and Freestar have UNCOMFORTABLE 3rd row seats because they are NOT high enough off the floor.
That leaves the Sienna and Odyssey with THE ONLY really comfortable 3rd row seats. :shades:
My opinion is that you can only tell so much from a photo. Go sit in each because looks can be VERY deceiving.
Case in point: the +1 seat in the Ody EX and EX-L LOOKS like some kind of torture device used in the Spanish Inquisition. After actually trying it, I wouldn't have any problem using it for a 2-3 hour stint.
If possible, try what my wife and I did: we went to a car show which had examples from all the manufacturers. We went from one to the next many many times trying to gauge how we liked seat comfort, control feel and layout, etc. You can only do so much with a picture.
Too funny.. Yeah, I was surprised too when I sat in it (with regards to comfort). I thought for sure that it would end up being the "time out" seat if a kid was acting up....
Hum... Quite a bold statement. My 2 cents. We never tried the Grand Caravan when shopping for a minivan, but DID test drove EXTENSIVELY the Sienna 05 XLE. We now own a Nissan Quest 05 SE. No doubt in my mind the Sienna 3rd row has MUCH LESS legroom than the Quest. Many times we did the trip from Potomac, MD to Williamsburg, VA (a ~3hr drive). My wife sat back on the 3rd row bench with my daughter and found it very comfortable. Sienna doesn't have the higher "stadium seating" for its 3rd row either, compared to the Quest. As for Odyssey, I can't tell since we never liked its styling even for its new design, so we didn't bother to test drive it.
Did Nissan change this in the 2006? OR, does your wife sit in the middle of the 3rd row seat and put her feet forward in the aisle space between the 2 bucket seats of the 2nd row?
Funny you should mention you did not like the Odyssey styling since most people think the Quest is the ugliest minivan made...inside and out. (My Sienna exterior styling is not much more attractive than the Quest). :shades:
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
I checked out Sienna LE/XLE, Odyssey EX-R Leather, Entourage GLS leather and Sedona EX Lux pkg on the same day. I was fully expecting Ody EX-R to come out as the winner. But, I was surprized with the Korean pair after the test drives - they were very competitive with the Japanese pair! I tried hard cornering out of highway ramps, hard acceleration, and sudden lane switches. They rode nicely, they handled nicely and quality of interior materials were very nice. Ody vs Korean vans were about the same. As usual, I don't like Toyota's soft feel. Lots of nice little touches on the Korean vans. You can tell they spend their time doing home work.
I honestly couldn't tell the quality difference between Sedona and Entourage - perhaps Hyundai looked a bit younger in spirit because of the use of aluminium trim over wood and slightly cooler looking gages. I personally don't mine the warm feel of the wood trims. I am really trying to justify myself to say I can afford Odyssey Touring but I hoestly shouldn't be spending that much money on any car!
Using their numbers (inc. discount), this is what I get (all in Canadian dollars):
Odyssey Touring: $768/month
Entourage GLS Leather: $660/month
Sedona EX Lux package: $615/month
Odyssey EX-L Res: $674/month
Sienna LE: $593/month
Sienna XLE: $771/month
(You American boys and girls should feel lucky! Look at the price I have to put up with... )
Obviously, Sienna XLE is out. Very sad to see 40% residual value after 4 years out of Toyota. Odyssey Touring is out too - too expensive. Sienna LE just doesn't have enough gadget for me...
So Sedona vs Ody EXL-Res:
Sedona has the following over Ody:
- Manual automatic gear (I think I would use it)
- Trip computer (I use this alot)
- Rain sending wiper (my wife will like this!)
- Power Tail gate (my wife will for sure, I may like it too)
- memory seats (nice since my wife and I are not the same size)
- Adjustable pedal (hmm)
- Fog light (could be useful in bad weather?)
- Chromic mirror (have to try this out, not sure of its usefulness)
So not all of the above are useful, but the list is rather long.
All of the above are 4 year lease payments, zero down.
I'm tempted to go with Sedona based on the above price.
Few odd differences between Sedona and Entourage:
Only Entourage has:
- MP3 Player
- Rear parking assist
- DVD player
Only Sedona has:
- Sunroof
- Auto rainsensing wiper
- Adjustable pedals
One negative thing I found about the Korean van - the location of DVD player. On Entourage, they don't come with sunroof, but still DVD is located further back from where sunroof is supposed to be. DVD screen is really close to the 2nd row seats, forcing audiences to turn their head more than 45 degree. I dont think this is a natural position to be for extended period of time. If I install DVD on Sedona, I will probably end up with the same problem.
Since I am leasing, depreciation cost is a non-factor - it is already built into the monthly payment. Honda offers 3 years warranty vs 5 years for Korean pair, hence it is actually safer to lease the Korean vans.
I can't believe I am saying I may buy a Kia over Honda but I may actully do it this time!
Second, you're right about unable to put your toes under the 2nd row seat in the Quest when sitting near the windows. That's because the Quest has "stadium seating" for its 3rd row. However I can move my legs more forward in the Quest. In Sienna, the most I can stretch my legs is a tad over 90o with my thighs, even when I scoot all the way back against the bench. That makes it uncomfortable on the long rides, having your legs always in this L angle. As said before, my wife sits near the window in the 3rd row for these 3-hour ride and never complained. Trust me, I would hear plenty of it if she's uncomfortable back there!
I say: Yep I agree also, but looks are most certainly deceiving. I looked at the DGC and thought ick those seats look so uncomfortable but they were comfortable. I was completely shocked.
Incidentally, Honda's warranty improved slightly for 2006. The bumper to bumper is still 3/36 but the powertrain is waranteed for 5/60.
Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!
I say: Yep I agree also, but looks are most certainly deceiving. I looked at the DGC and thought ick those seats look so uncomfortable but they were comfortable. I was completely shocked.
I didn't find the angle of the third row seats uncomfortable. But I didn't like the third row seat backs. Sits you strait up and won't recline any. That is what was uncomfortable to me.
Maybe you can help me find the lever that allows the seat back to recline farther. I haven't found it.
The Stow and Fold 3rd row seats of the Sienna work in a slightly different manner. In the Sienna, the back of the 3rd row seat is facing upward when it is folded into the floor whereas the DC minivans have the bottom of the seat facing upward when the entire seat is folded into the floor. :shades: I think the Odyssey has the best folding mechanism for the 3rd row seats since it allows the 3rd row seat cushion to be relatively flat while working slightly easier than the Sienna mechanism.
I am not positive that the rear seat would recline when the 2005 minivans with Stow 'N Go were first introduced in January 2004. The 3rd row seat may have been modified during the production run.
Thanks.
Thanks,
Tonia
Thanks.
Hans is right....there's strap on each side and they allow the angle to be adjusted. I know the Honda's also adjust but you can't do it while seated in seat, you have to do it from back hatch area. Not sure about others.
On the Sienna, side curtain airbags arrived with the launch of the 2004 model in March 2003.
So I need a car and am looking at a minivan. Cost is an issue so we cannot just go out and buy a new one. Looking at a 2003 Honda Odyssey Ex. Good van? Like most parents, I am most concerned about safety. Part of me is leaning toward a used Volvo wagon for that reason but we could use the space in a minivan. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Tonia
Here is my question. IS depreciation a factor if we are planning to drive the van for the next 10 years? Is the Kia van going to hold up that long?
BTW, I found an 03 Odyssey here for 13K but it has 89K miles on it. No side airbags in the back either. One owner, seems nice. It is an EX. Leather, sliding doors, etc.
Opinions on what I should do here are welcome. We have one child, planning on at least one more, hence the van idea.
Thanks!
Tonia
Is the new Kia a bad choice? It seems to have everything we need at a price we can handle. I will probably drive it for the next 10 years. I am a bit worried because it is so new so there is no reference for comparison as far as its longevity. Anyone here have an opinion? Pro or con, either one.
Thanks
Good luck!
Maybe I will have to compromise on the side curtain airbags and go used Toyota. Are they safe? For the kids in the back?
I want a safe minivan for under 22,000.00 with some bells and whistles. Power doors, a dvd package. Most of all safe. Can this be done?
Thanks
This price isn't necessarily a great price, but you should never pay more. If local dealers won't beat the price, then buy through carsdirect.com. You'll have the last laugh when carsdirect.com delivers your new car through one of those local dealers. Most likely, when you email or visit local dealers, they will beat the carsdirect.com price by a good margin. Of course, they will try to get you to pay more, add options or move up to a higher trim level for more money. It's all part of the game.
You can also try buying services like Sam's Club, Costco, local credit unions, autobytel.com and many others.
If you need things like power doors, entertainment system and other extras, a new van probably won't meet your price constraints. I thought you were looking more for a low cost entry model with side curtain airbags, sorry.
Thanks so much for all your help. Looks like I just need to get out the and drive a few more vans.
She had 170,000 on a used 1986 Caravan SE when it was sold 5 or 6 years ago...and it had no problems all those years except the 4 cyl had too little power.
Many people I know have purchased 3 or 4 DC minivans since they came out 26 years ago. Complete satisfaction keep them buying DC minivans when they need a newer vehicle. :shades:
You really should look at a used Dodge Caravan SXT with airbags, power doors, and a DVD player.. You should be able to find a used one for close to your price point (new ones in my area with DVD, leather, power doors, etc, are going for about 23-24K).
Otherwise, you will have to find a used 2002-2003 Toyota or Honda with power doors, DVD, etc...
Those prices are MSRP...which is the asking price. Knock 2 or 3 thousand off MSRP and you will be close to invoice price...what a good negotiator tries to get a vehicle for. How are your negotiation skills? You should be able to get a new 2006 Kia LX for around $22,000. No help on the Kia Sedona Prices Paid board for LX's.
I think a new or one year old Dodge Grand Caravan would fit your requirements as well.
I would definitely take my time, do your homework on what the vehicles you are interested in are going for...and most importantly, buy something you really like and will enjoy, since you say you'll be driving this van for the next ten years.
The Toyota vans are very safe, but there are a lot of people who highly recommend the side curtain airbags.
The 2006 CE is hardly a stripped down model. Some standard equipment on the CE: 5 speed auto. trans (same engine and transmission as in the higher priced models), front side and curtain airbags, antilock brakes, tire pressure monitor, front and rear a/c, tilt/telescope steering wheel, second row bucket seats, power windows, power locks, power mirror, remote keyless entry, cd player, rear defogger wiper
CE's in my area are going for under $22K..
So are Odyssey LX's and Hyundai Entourage's...
Granted this is before tax, tag, and title but it looks like there are quite a few options for $22-23K. You won't be able to get power doors and a DVD player for that price on a new van however..
To get the "safety package" on the CE was an additional $2,700 I believe. Safety package included side and curtain airbags, 4 wheel disc antilock brakes, vehicle stability control and a few other things.
My experience has been Sienna CE's in general are very difficult to find. Someone on a budget, or who doesn't care for all the extra features, would be very happy with the base CE.
Well your right hansienna, if you pull strap #1 in back of the third row seat, it will tilt backwards as well as forwards. I am now a happy man. I can't complain of any of the seats in the Dodge minivans now. Not quite as soft as the others, but not uncomfortable at all.