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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Well it's more like 3 accelerating gears in the Ody and 4 in the Sienna. Unless you believe 1:1 is not a reasonable accelerating gear.

    The extra gear in the Sienna is actually 1st, which is a very short 4.24, compared to the 2.56 of the Ody. So it should feel quicker off the line, but will require a very quick up-shift (35mph at WOT according to C&D). Which is better? I dunno. Performance wise they seem to be about the same in the real world. I guarantee a lot of folks think the Sienna is more powerful during a test drive simply because it will pull harder right at first. I would say the Sienna is also the better choice for towing, which is even more obvious once you look at Honda's asinine tow package option.
  • d5ad5a Member Posts: 63
    Hey room took your advise. Bought the last MPV in my area. Base model with rear air, roof rack, floor mates, and cargo net. So far so good. IT only had 28 miles on it. I was shocked since it had been sitting in the lot. IT now has 200 miles on it and it seems to be a nice van. 17,500 on the road and its has just enough room and it moves. ITs really fast and I just came out of a BMW so for a van to move like it does I'm happy. I hope i stay happy for years driving it. Could not beat the price and it seems just as good as any other van i drove. Hope it last and the transmmsion is ok.

    Thanks for every ones advise. I'll keep you posted on how it works out as we put more miles on the van.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Congrats on the purchase. $17,500 is an excellent price- I think for the same price you'd only be able to buy a Civic LX. :)

    Is it a 2005 or a 2006?
  • d5ad5a Member Posts: 63
    Thanks, Thats what i thought when i bought it. For the price what else would I be able to get with all the room it has. :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Debuting next week in Detroit!!! I can add one feature as certain - LED track lighting!!! (use less energy and last forever)

    The production date appears to be September 1, 2007.

    No more four cylinders: four speed automatic on base models with 3.3 engine
    Top end 4.0 engine with six speed
    ESP (stability control)
    MyGig sound system with built-in hard drive for music storage and more
    Power third row seat
    Rear backup camera
    Illuminated cupholders, probably heated and cooled
    Heated second row seats
    Ventilated front seats
    HID headlamps
    Sirius Streaming Video (movies on demand over the air?)
    Hybrid-electric version (possibly late availability)
    We'd also expect the fancy new LED lights used in the Sebring and Aspen to make their way into the Caravan and Town & Country.

    2008 DCX Van Details and Pics

    Autoblog Article
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Overly conservative - takes some chances (except for Crossfire, Sebring, Compass, and Aspen :-)

    Market Collapse: Detroit 3 count on fleet sales to move minivans

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070103/FREE/70102005/1528
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Over Conservative? We all know how well the Nissan Quest is doing in market place with it's radical styling. I think DCX went back to their roots and they look great for being a Minivan. Love the Chrome mirrors and door handles!!! I just hoped they moved the interior up a notch. I'm glad there's no ribs on hood aka Crossfire and Aspen!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Love the Article's last comment "Minivan Market is Collapsing"!!! Note this was written by an expert in Detroit, where GM/Ford sat on their butts while Honda/Toyota and even DCX were the innovators with features and technology. Then their Minivans don't sell and they're jumping on crossovers to save their butts. GM/Ford stopped making minivans in the late 90s in my opinion. Look at a Winstar and Freestar and note the differences - hardly any, same with Venture/Uplander etc.. Boo Hoo, their minivans aren't selling :(

    I think DCX is trying and even if you omit fleet sales from DCX numbers, they're selling more Minivans than anyone else.

    Personally I think CUVs aren't much better than SUVs!! Unless you need AWD, you're losing space, MPG, utiity, and ride. How many Pilots, Murano, Highlanders are on the road compared to Odys, Quests and Siennas? Not Many! CUVs aren't going to save GM/Ford!! Look at Ford's new Edge - weighs 2.5 ton!!!! no space and seats 5!!! NO THANKS!!!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Until they put a sliding door on these "CUV's" they're not going to hack too far into the minivan world. Loading/unloading younger kids is just a complete PITA with normal doors, nevermind the other advantages of the big boxes.
  • d5ad5a Member Posts: 63
    I have to agree with the fact that like it or not minivans are the best bang for the buck when it comes to hauling people and things. I've had car's SUV's and CUV and now have a minivan. I fought the minivan purchase but now wonder why. It beats everything I've had before including many large SUV's for room. My large SUV's could not handle the room and space a minivan can. If you need all wheel drive which i wanted I can see looking at CUV's but you wont get the room or gas mileage. I wish more minivans had an AWD option but it would effect the mileage but at least if you wanted it you could have it.

    Hate to say it but I would find it really hard to live without a van in my family now that we have one. I can't day that about a CUV or SUV or even a car.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    GM NEVER put much money into their minivans while Ford never had a good idea. GM tried to fool people by putting an SUV like hood on their poorly designed, small 2nd generation FWD minivans and called them CUV's.

    Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota greatly improved the Odyssey and Sienna while Kia improved the Sedona and they have replaced GM and Ford in the minivan market while Chrysler still remains THE MOST Popular minivan.

    It will be VERY interesting to see how well the public likes the new, more conservatively styled 2008 DaimlerChrysler minivans.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    What do you think? Looks like the 2nd row not only Stow but also rotate 180 degrees!!! and the back windows have built in shades, there's switches on IP for folding and stowing the seats, the gearshift looks like it has manual shift capability even!! and the over level of refinement is incredible!!

    2008 Town and Country
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    The Stow 'n' Swivel looked and sounded pretty cool, from I am hearing. Otherwise, the overall package is okay.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Looks pretty cool to me, with best in-class interior packaging. Refinement is something that, IMO, must be felt as well as seen, which is something that we can't do yet. If the tactile quality of the interior is there, then looks like DCX will stay right in the thick of the battle!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Looks really good. The swivel chairs are a neat idea, and they also have the power fold down 3rd row which is a first. They catch up in all other features as well. They also are offering the 3 seating configurations (BELOW), which should satisfy just about everyone up to 8 passengers. Good stuff. I think I will wait until early '08 to look for my new van

    Three distinct seating configurations are available for 2008 in North America: a second-row bench seat with second-row covered storage bins and third-row fold-in-the-floor seating, a Stow ’n Go® seating and storage system with the only second- and third-row fold-in-the-floor seats in the industry, and the new Swivel ’n Go seating that allows the second row seats to swivel 180 degrees to face rearward. Swivel ’n Go also includes a removable table that fits between the second and third rows with a fold-in-the-floor third-row seat. A one-touch power-folding third-row seat also is available.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    they also have the power fold down 3rd row which is a first.

    I think a couple of vehicles beat Chrysler to the power-fold third-row seat.

    Check out Toyota Sienna Limited with Option Package 3. It has a power folding 60/40 third row. The Ford Expedition has offered this for awhile now, also.

    EDIT: - I just realized you may have meant that this was a first for Chrysler, and not to the vehicle market in general. If so, my apologies. :)
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Actually I thought it was a minivan first. Didn't realize the Sienna just started offering it (I assume it's new for 07?). I knew about the Expedition - they had commercials for that (I'd never shop an Expedition, so that's how I knew)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Didn't realize the Sienna just started offering it (I assume it's new for 07?).

    I honestly don't know when they started offering it. I know the design was refreshed a little bit in 2006 also, so it could have been then. I'm not sure though.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Good info, thanks.

    The Sienna third row power seat was a new option for early 2006. It is not available with the four wheel drive option. Really excited about the T&C and hope the tactile quality is there as well as overall improved reliability.
  • timothyftimothyf Member Posts: 40
    Any one know what the mileage ratings are for the new 4L engine?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Aren't all MPG ratings dropping again this year due to revisions in EPA calculations? Or is this just for Hybrids?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    All 2008MY (model year) vehicles. And would apply to T&C/GC.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
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  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
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    Now for some interiors--

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  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
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  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Wow what a nice looking van.I love the swivel seating arrangment,and the table in the middle is such a cool idea.I wonder what they had(if anything)go through to get those seats accepted by the government for crash worthiness.It is avery handsome van,and makes me wish we had waited instead of buying our Sienna last week.

    I must say though that I don't care for the chrome mirrors much.

    Chris
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Well, I'm specing mine out already to replace my 2005 Dodge GC SXT!!! I'll take a loaded T&C with tow package. Just hope the tow rating stays the same or increases!!

    The attention to detail is fantastic, storage nets in side of seats, window shades, sliding console with cooler, and I love the interior shapes etc...IP, seat frames... How was the quality of the plastics overall??

    I wish DCX would bring out a diesel here in US!!

    I'm not sure I have the desire to head to downtown Detroit though. I could buy some $75 supplier passes, but even those days are jammed and the parking downtown sucks!!
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    The Swivel seats looks nice, but the second set of photos had a more basic second row seat that looks a lot like what they have now. I hope they made some improvements, because the versions in the old vans were terribly short, hard, and uncomfortable.

    I like the instrument lay out and looks like they borrowed the cruise control stick from Toyota. Leg space is what you'd expect when the seats are turned to each other.

    Looks like they've caught up with Honda and Toyota with windows that roll down in back and sun screens.

    I like the overall style and these should sell better for them.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    A few questions: Where is the air intake for the rear air/rear heater fan? Are the door panels hard plastic or some nice, soft material?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I hope that they make an interior that people can use as working vans.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "I must say though that I don't care for the chrome mirrors much. "

    The mirrors I can live with. I just wish the T&C has some non-chrome wheels offered, but I doubt it from the pictures. The wheels on my 04 are impossible to clean, and are basically permanenatly stained now. I even tried power washing them, didn't work. I know you can keep them clean with religious maintenance from the start, but who needs that hassle?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    the web site to see the new Chrysler minivans. He was going to buy one about 7 months ago. I told him to wait and see the 2008 Chrysler vans before buying one. That I heard major improvements and style were in store for the new vans. He called me this morning and thanked me. He couldn't believe how much they had changed.

    I was thinking of keeping my 2005 for a good 5-7 years. Now I'm not to sure. I really like that van.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I was thinking of keeping my 2005 for a good 5-7 years. Now I'm not to sure. I really like that van.

    As with any car company, I'd give them a year or two to work some bugs out of the new model. Just a thought.

    Prices will also work their way back down with time.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    In many ways, these just build upon the 2005 upgrades, as the 2005 Honda was strongly based on the previous Gen. I say this because if you look at the pics of the dodge with stow n go seating, the trim, folding doors, seats and 3rd seat design look identical. I'm also get mixed signals on Swivel n Go seats folding into floor? I'm guessing they won't because they look much more substantial than the reg Stown N Go seats? But I haven't seen one in person, and i'm not going to head to downtown Detroit, fighting traffic, looking for a parking spot 3 miles away and freezing my butt off!!

    Also, although the Tranny and Engine are new, they've been in production in the 2007 Pacifica for over a year without any issues.

    With this in mind, I'm betting the 2008s will have minor bugs.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Check the Allpar NAIAS page. The Swivel N go seats also store! I had doubts as well. Makes we wonder why they even offer the standard Sto N Go seats.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    If you use Whesley's White Wall Cleaner, this should do the trick. We have the silver aluminum wheels and it cleans all of the brake dust off easily. (Make sure you use a soft brush)
  • bsm00thbsm00th Member Posts: 4
    Wow, Chrysler has finally caught up with my 1972 VW Westy Camper with the seating/table arrangement. Except I had a sink too. I may have to upgrade now, I hear that heat thing is a real plus in winter!

    /Andy
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Well, that was a mistake @ Allpar. The pictures were of the standard Stow N Go seats, not the larger Swivel seats. The Swivel seats do not store, but do fold flat. Bummer.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Well, that was a mistake Allpar. The pictures were of the standard Stow N Go seats, not the larger Swivel seats. The Swivel seats do not store, but do fold flat. Bummer.

    That is a bummer. I would think instead of making two individual wells, they could make one big one and stow them both. They don't have a drive shaft to worry about. They could still make two doors and one big storage bin. Really do like those bins. Can get just about anything in them.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    BUT not if a table with facing seats and a sink is the ONLY thing important. :shades:
    My sister's 1986 Caravan with 4 cylinder engine was much more comfortable for 7 people than a VW and also got better gas mileage.
    I owned a 1971 VW Bus and a 1977 VW Bus which were fine if a person does not like simple things like a heater, sufficient power, and reliability. My 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L V6, heater and air conditioning front and rear, automatic transmission, power steering, quality stereo, sliding doors on both sides, and MORE and still got better gas mileage than either Volkswagen with their anemic, wheezing, inadequate 4 cylinder engines.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I'm anxious to see the VW version of the DCX vans!! Diesel? Typical german interior (which really appeals to me)? I hope it doesn't look like a rebadged DCX minivan (what's the point??)!!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    NOT to me after owning Volkswagen junk. :shades:
  • ch1313ch1313 Member Posts: 12
    Like all "follow the leader" march, I'm sure you will find Honda, Toyota and Nissan will follow Chrysler with the swivel seat in their next minivans. I still don't like Chrysler redesign of their cars to be boxy. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a boxy car cause more air turbulance, and eat gas more? What sells 300 or Magnum doesn't necessary translate selling point for minivan.

    There is one feature that a lot car makers do tend to overlook: automatic shutoff of lights. My 2004 Quest can shutoff its internal light automatically when I accidently left the doors ajar. My friend who owns a Sienna told me that her van doesn't have that feature. She said she had to jumpstart her van twice because she forgot to close the door.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Like all "follow the leader" march, I'm sure you will find Honda, Toyota and Nissan will follow Chrysler with the swivel seat in their next minivans. I still don't like Chrysler redesign of their cars to be boxy. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a boxy car cause more air turbulance, and eat gas more? What sells 300 or Magnum doesn't necessary translate selling point for minivan. "

    I think I prefer the current tapered back end, although teh new tail lights are better. The front end looks WAAAYYYYY better now. Really cool looking. It also will give me some peace of mind about something that is a longshot, but I often wonder about as I drive on the windy roads near my house in NW NJ. You see dead deer on the roads contantly around here. The way the current DCX vans are designed, if you hit a deer at a decent speed, that thing will almost definitely just slide up the hood and through your windshield. And that can be deadly. The squared up front would help with that. I know it's a minor issue, but it's an added benefit of what I think is a better look, too

    "There is one feature that a lot car makers do tend to overlook: automatic shutoff of lights. My 2004 Quest can shutoff its internal light automatically when I accidently left the doors ajar. My friend who owns a Sienna told me that her van doesn't have that feature. She said she had to jumpstart her van twice because she forgot to close the door. "

    My 2004 T&C must do that - we left one of the sliders open over nite a few months ago and the lights were off the next day
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    "There is one feature that a lot car makers do tend to overlook: automatic shutoff of lights. My 2004 Quest can shutoff its internal light automatically when I accidently left the doors ajar. My friend who owns a Sienna told me that her van doesn't have that feature. She said she had to jumpstart her van twice because she forgot to close the door. "

    My 2004 T&C must do that - we left one of the sliders open over nite a few months ago and the lights were off the next day


    Our 2000 Odyssey had this feature too; it was a 10 minute shutoff. I know the new ones do as well.
  • panmaxpanmax Member Posts: 24
    "I still don't like Chrysler redesign of their cars to be boxy. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a boxy car cause more air turbulence, and eat gas more? What sells 300 or Magnum doesn't necessary translate selling point for minivan."

    Boxy means more room for the same outside size. A van must carry things so more room is good. If gas prices rise, boxy will be even more popular so that a boxy big van can carry more and a boxy smaller van will carry what the Odyssey does today with better mileage. At city speeds, more turbulence does not eat enough gas to make up for more weight. A boxy van can be made lighter and smaller and carry just as much. Japan has many boxy small vans and cars. Gas is expensive there and space for roads is at a premium.

    "There is one feature that a lot car makers do tend to overlook: automatic shut off of lights."

    My 2002 Odyssey does not have this feature. My ancient Chrysler van does have it. I dread the day when battery is dead due to lights on.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    "There is one feature that a lot car makers do tend to overlook: automatic shut off of lights."

    My 2002 Odyssey does not have this feature.


    Leave your doors or hatch open for 15 minutes, then return to your car. Unless you manually switched the lights on, they should automatically turn off.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Boxy is back to DCX's original design. The boxy back end should really enlarge the perception for rear seat passengers.

    I love the battery protection - it's really just a very low cost timer circuit. It probably costs manufacturers $0.15 to add to vehicle. When I'm camping, many times my sliding door and hatch are open for easy access to gear (and my brave pittbull likes to hide in van when something scares him!). Its nice knowing I won't end up with dead battery
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