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Comments
The higher end models are going unsold as wealthier customers are leaning towards crossovers which don't have that stigma...
Nothing beats a minivan when it comes to that 3rd row comfort...
A few more data points (07 versus 06, percentage change):
March February YTD
Odyssey -20 -0.3 -4.7
Sienna -23 -10.5 -13.4
Town & C -14.7 -12.5 -5.4
Caravan/GC -27.5 -7.1 -9.8
Sedona -35.6 -8.2 -6.9 (had big incentives on 06s in Jan)
Entourage (NA, but total March is 1358, YTD 3226)
Total 07 sales for
DCX vans: about 90k
Odyssey: about 37k
Sedona: about 16k
Sienna: about 35k
Granted, the Odyssey drop has been more recent, but you're seeing huge drops in minivan sales across the board in March, and a roughly 10% drop YTD across the board. And that's not even counting GM / Ford / Mazda exiting.
YTD sales (through 03/07)
Acadia: 11704
Outlook: 5054
Veracruz: 178
CX9: 3693
Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
T&C: from 39k to 36,9
C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9
DCX: down 8k units
Odyssey: down 2k units
Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)
But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales?
YTD sales (through 03/07)
Acadia: 11704
Outlook: 5054
Veracruz: 178
CX9: 3693
Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
T&C: from 39k to 36,9
C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9
DCX: down 8k units
Odyssey: down 2k units
Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)
But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales? "
I think it will be continual and a big bite. It is only in the last year that SUV/crossovers began to match all of the big minivan plusses: interior space, carlike ride, decnt gas mileage. In the past, they had some of those features, but not all. And they already sold very well.
The only thing left is the sliding doors. But it seems many people will take regular doors if they get something they thinks looks better.
Just my opinion, and obviously there are many people who will still like minivans, but the market will continue to erode, from what I see,
I don't think we'll go back to a minivan...
The only advantage for a CUV would be AWD and possibly styling, if one is that ashamed to be seen in a minivan.
Families with older kids may switch over to CUV's.
I think the minivan market share will continue to erode, but I don't see it going the way of the station wagon. It's just too practical on too many levels.
I would appreciate your help. I am at a loss as what I should do:
Which should I purchase:
1. 1997 Olds Silhouette GLS, 55K, immaculate shape, most all the extras, $7500
2. 1997 Chevy Astro conversion, also immaculate shape, 77K miles, $8000.
The tradeoffs: $600 less, fewer miles for the Silhouette vs. high quality conversion, more plush interior and extras, TV/VCP, better engine, less possible major problems.
Carfax is clean on both vans, both are local owners with no major repairs, and are being sold by dealers.
I just don't know which one to pick!
Thanks
Note: Also Posted on Triplets Forum
I agree whole-heartedly. Blue-book indicates otherwise, however (a loaded Silouhette is indicated at about $6,000 for Dealer Retail price).
I'd have a hard time paying over $4,000 for a ten year old Oldsmobile (a company that doesn't build cars anymore).
The 3rd row seats fold down, which is the same as most minivans except the Chrysler. And if you have carseats, it's probably easier to just remove the entire seast when you need to
"The only advantage for a CUV would be AWD and possibly styling, if one is that ashamed to be seen in a minivan. "
Well, obviously styling is the big one, and a major reason why these were ever drawn up in the first place. I am also seeing a lof of posts about 22-25 overall MPG in the real world MPG forums for the GM CUV's, and not many vans match that
Sadly, IMO the vans are not overpriced. For the Astro, you have to figure in not just the cost of the van, but the price of the conversion, and the price offered is in line with it. NADA book here is only one that prices conversions, and while it is considered over priced by some, you are delaing with banks and dealers who use it.
The Silo is a little harder to deal with since it is hard to tell what model it is GS/GLS. But it is in line with an Edmunds rated "outstanding" condition for a used Silo.
It's a tough choice
If this is for sale at dealership, or even private sale, I'm sure you could haggle the price down some. Both sound like very nice vans. Good luck.
In the end though, I want to say go for the Silhouette as it will be easier to park and be more fuel efficient. (on top of having a driver side sliding door, which will be more convenient)
However, the price does seem high for a ten year old Oldsmobile, especially a minivan.
I am also concerned at the mileage level; those 55,000 miles were probably not highway miles, especially if they were logged over ten years.
I would probably direct my attention to a 98 or 99 Sienna with higher mileage. Sure it is smaller, but it is definitely safer, and if you're willing to drop $8000 or so, it might be the best buy of the 3.
.....Total 07 sales for
.....DCX vans: about 90k
.....Odyssey: about 37k
.....Sedona: about 16k
.....Sienna: about 35k
The obvious question is: "Why is Sedona with less than half the sales of the Sienna listed in 3rd place?" :confuse:
It's on the third line because Se comes before Si, and in that sense, yes, Sedona is third after DCX, and Odyssey.
It was listed 3rd because I was going off a spreadsheet that had total sales listed alphabetically by manufacturer parent (i.e. DCX first, Honda 2nd, Hyundai 3rd, Toyota 4th). [and I never even thought about listing them in order of sales]
Sienna had a relatively good April, with sales dropping just 1/2 of a percent (per selling day), compared to April 06. Total sales: 12,773
Odyssey continued to be down: down 21.3% (per selling day)
Total sales: 12,241
Kia Sedona sales down: April 07: 2698 versus 4479 (for 06)
Hyundai Entourage: April 07: 2697 (one shy of tying the Sedona) versus 126 (during its debut April 06 month)
Town & Country: up a lot: 35% (total sales 15701)
Caravan: up 11% (Total sales 23095)
So, for April, it's the Sienna holding mostly steady (volume wise, down 1140 units), Sedona / Entourage net up about 1k units, DCX up a bunch (in per selling day terms, though in volume its 3500 units), and the Odyssey down a lot (in volume terms, down 4600). Altogether, down about 1200 units.
BTW, highlander sold well, despite its coming redesign, up 2.4%; Pilot also sold well, up 3.9% [both of those in per selling day terms]
Odyssey 49,587 56,054 -11.5%
Sienna 47,732 54,302 -12.1
ENTOURAGE 5,923 126
Sedona 18,622 21,590
DCX did not report YTD, so you'd have to go back and add them up yourself [YTD for March 07/06: T&C 36,871 / 38,988; C/GC 52,889 / 58,624]
We bought a 32K van for 23K, tell me that's not a deal! The only thing this van does not have on it are the tire pressure monitors and the pedal adjustment. This dealer wanted to sell and gave us darn near Kelley bluebook on our '02 grand caravan. Expressway Dodge in Evansville, Indiana rocks!
I remember seeing the ads for that major minivan sale. They were advertising 0% financing for x number of months or $4000 cashback I believe.
Is your price before or after all cashbacks? Did you go with the 0% financing?
Why not post some data/info here about what the problem may be before coming in here slamming Hyundai? Are you saying that all Sedona/Entourage trannies have a 50/50 chance of EXPLODING with shrapnel spewing up & out into the pasenger compartment as well as slicing into nearby innocents? :confuse:
He certainly didn't say that, I believe you, my friend, are the one putting that idea into other readers' heads. Got it in for Hyundai/Kia do ya? Sounds kind of like it.
I think they posted that because this is a "minivan shopping" board, and they wanted to make people aware there may be a problem with Entourage/Sedona transmissions for such an early failure.
It may also be an anomoly, or related to the way that person drove the van. We may never know.
That way your wife's friend will get a brand new transmission, instead of a rebuilt one.
See, you have to look on the bright side in situations like this folks.
I hope they (Hyundai) can figure out what happened and let the general public know if this is an anomoly that will be recalled. If not, I'd still like to know what circumstances caused the failure.
All of your posts except this one were in the Ody vs. Sienna thread, yeah, I believe your story...
(end sarcasm)
My radiator hose was not clamped on my car and it left me stranded on the interstate two weeks ago. If I'd posted that night, I probably would've talked about my radiator exploding, it being 95 degrees outside, me about to die of thirst, and having to wait forever on a tow truck. Two weeks later, I can more rationally say that my car ran hot, it was warm outside, and the tow truck was there in 45 minutes.
Its easy to get caught up in the moment.
I haven't heard of a problem with Sedontourage trannies before that post though, which still makes me think, if that post is real (the writer hasn't returned, so we may never know all the details), it was an anomoly built on a Friday afternoon where one of the worker put the wrong widget in the transmission.
You didn't research it yourself before buying? Eek! I guess you are surprised. You'd probably be better off just enjoying your van than trading. The low selling value would override the gas you are paying now.
May 07 May 06 [%change (DSR) May] YTD07 YTD06 %change
SIENNA 12,837 13,102 -5.8% 60,569 67,404 -10.8%
Sedona 2,500 4,625 -48.0% 21,122 26,215 -19.4%
Entourage 2,544 1,068 +129% 8,467 1,194 +609%
Joint Kia/Hyundai %s: Month: -14.8%, YTD: +8%
Town & Country 14,379 17,326 -20% [no YTD reported]
Caravan 18,236 22,685 -23% [no YTD reported]
Odyssey* 15,235 16,887 -13.3% 64,822 72,941 -11.8%
So, all except the Entourage (a new model at this time last year) were down significantly from last year. Of these, Sienna was holding onto last year's sales most closely, but was still itself down almost 6%. The Odyssey (with $750 dealer incentive cash) stopped its 20% fall, but still came in down more than 13%. The strong sales for last month for the now Chrysler vans has not been repeated, and Chrysler vans are selling about as poorly as two months ago, and the outlook is grim until the new 08 arrives (this also probably reflects no longer selling program vans to the rental agencies). For the first time that I know, the Entourage outsold the Sedona, but it was helped by a $2500 cash to buyer (plus something else probably), a bit more than the Sedona's $1000 cash.
A grim month for vans. All of the manufacturers except Toyota were down more than 13%, in this the month before summer. The crossovers are truly taking over.
My wife and I had a ride in a regular Caravan and to be honest I prefer it to the overdone and boring stream of SUVs I see out there. Speaking for myself, though. No offense to any owners/drivers of SUVs.
Inform, please...
Looking forward-
Peace!<- :shades: --
Better for the consumer, though, who can get a bargain on Sedonas that must be piling up on lots.
That's why I combined the Kia & Hyundai sales into 1 (they were not reported that way): you cannot really think of one w/o the other
That's not good. Just 8% more total sales combined, and it costs them a lot more to offer two models.
If you take out the January Sedona fire sale (>$5000 incentives on 06 Sedonas then) when Sedona sold 1500 more units in Jan07 than in Jan 06, the combined numbers for the year is up a mere 600 units (up 2% for the whole year).
Better for the consumer, though, who can get a bargain on Sedonas that must be piling up on lots.
I have to think that Kia learned a bit after this last year, and having to resort to the January firesale, so I doubt there will be as huge inventories. [I don't see many in my nearby lots, but what's there is not moving at all]
Not to mention that Honda is heavily discounting Pilots...
The van market will likely continue to shrink. I say too bad.
Both 6 cyls in the 08 minivans will be teamed with new 6 spd auto. That should help gas mileage
My situation is that I've 2 boys, 6 & 9. Its time for a new car, and till now never had big boxy cars (wagons/minivans/cuvs etc).
I like wagons, vans and cuvs. Wife likes cuv, wagons, sedans, vans. Kids like integrated dvd player, more room, capability to host 1 or 2 occasional friends.
It will be my primary vehicle for commute as well as kids activities, family vehicle etc. I don't have many opportunities to haul big & bulky items, much less if at all for towing. Of course, who knows future!
Will probably keep the vehicle for about 5yr/100k miles. Price is not a big issue, but not looking for any lux/expensive vehicles!
Can wait till end of year to buy, but not more!
Question is, since my kids are older (not babies/toddlers) do/will I really "need" a large ("> 5 seater") vehicle? The largeness of a large vehicle is probably needed < 5% of time I guess and they intimidate me ;-) Still, I'll drive them if needed!
My choices are:
Van - sienna, ody, 08 t&c
wagons - subie forester, ???
cuv - 08 highlander, 07 pilot, maz cx9, 3 GM siblings
So what do you guys think?
Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time!
This is my personal opinion of course, but you really don't "need" anything larger than a CR-V in size. The backseat in that vehicle is large enough that I (6'4") have plentiful room sitting behind another tall person. With gas prices being so high still, personally, I'd avoid the V6 vehicles like Pilot, CX-9, GMC Acadia triplets, and Highlander (the 08 Highlander will be expensive being a first year model-no deals).
Is there a reason that a conventional sedan wouldn't suffice? You get much more "car" for your money when you buy a car.
(By the way, we had a 2000 Odyssey and we thoroughly liked the car, but didn't drive it a lot because it was more vehicle than we needed (i'm an only child) and used plenty of gas compared to our Accord (18 MPG vs. 24 MPG over the same route).
This is one humble opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. You know your needs better than I do.