Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

1…5657596162…73

Comments

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    is having a huge minivan sale, so I'm betting that that is having an effect on Sienna and Odyssey sales, particularly the less expensive LX and CE/LE versions.

    The higher end models are going unsold as wealthier customers are leaning towards crossovers which don't have that stigma...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I'm tired of the word "Stigma"!!! I drove a GMC Acadia last week to see what I'm missing by driving a "Stigma"....it was $42,000 with a really nice interior (FINALLY GM!!!), power was ok, but the ride was a little stiff. It didn't have nearly the room of my Minivan, and didn't ride as nice. I'm waiting to drive the 2008 DCX twins, then possibly getting one.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Most of the crossovers I looked at at the NY show yesterday didn't have a backseat as comfortable as my Odyssey, albeit the Veracruz, Outlook, and Freestyle had ok third rows...

    Nothing beats a minivan when it comes to that 3rd row comfort... :)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Congrats! I am looking at US vehicles as being very competitive for the first time in years, and I hope to get one next year. The Upcoming Ford Taurus X Crossover looks very promising for my needs.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Well DCX is giving their vans away too, at the same time....that's probably having some effect with cost conscious buyer.
    A few more data points (07 versus 06, percentage change):
    March February YTD
    Odyssey -20 -0.3 -4.7
    Sienna -23 -10.5 -13.4
    Town & C -14.7 -12.5 -5.4
    Caravan/GC -27.5 -7.1 -9.8
    Sedona -35.6 -8.2 -6.9 (had big incentives on 06s in Jan)
    Entourage (NA, but total March is 1358, YTD 3226)

    Total 07 sales for
    DCX vans: about 90k
    Odyssey: about 37k
    Sedona: about 16k
    Sienna: about 35k

    Granted, the Odyssey drop has been more recent, but you're seeing huge drops in minivan sales across the board in March, and a roughly 10% drop YTD across the board. And that's not even counting GM / Ford / Mazda exiting.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the introduction of minivan sized CUVs like the Saturn Outlook and Hyundai Veracruz. Does anybody have sales numbers for those?
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    These are certainly competitors:

    YTD sales (through 03/07)
    Acadia: 11704
    Outlook: 5054
    Veracruz: 178
    CX9: 3693

    Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
    T&C: from 39k to 36,9
    C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
    Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
    Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9

    DCX: down 8k units
    Odyssey: down 2k units
    Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
    Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)

    But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales?
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    These are certainly competitors:

    YTD sales (through 03/07)
    Acadia: 11704
    Outlook: 5054
    Veracruz: 178
    CX9: 3693

    Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
    T&C: from 39k to 36,9
    C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
    Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
    Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9

    DCX: down 8k units
    Odyssey: down 2k units
    Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
    Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)

    But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales? "

    I think it will be continual and a big bite. It is only in the last year that SUV/crossovers began to match all of the big minivan plusses: interior space, carlike ride, decnt gas mileage. In the past, they had some of those features, but not all. And they already sold very well.

    The only thing left is the sliding doors. But it seems many people will take regular doors if they get something they thinks looks better.

    Just my opinion, and obviously there are many people who will still like minivans, but the market will continue to erode, from what I see,

    I don't think we'll go back to a minivan...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    No matter what, a CUV will never match a minivan for versatility, space, ease of use etc.... I looked at the Acadia, drove it etc....it was ok, but there's less space, harder to get in to and out of, and is less of a "do everything" vehicle than my Grand Caravan. Think of what an Acadia owner has to do to haul anything...physically remove the seats, store em etc... or my specific issue weeks ago - I helped a buddy with a Flat Screen TV from BestBuy. It wouldn't fit in a CUV as easily if at all!!

    The only advantage for a CUV would be AWD and possibly styling, if one is that ashamed to be seen in a minivan.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    I think young families will still want a minivan. You cart all that stuff around and have to access the back seats often. Plus you don't have to worry about young kids slamming doors open and hitting other cars.

    Families with older kids may switch over to CUV's.

    I think the minivan market share will continue to erode, but I don't see it going the way of the station wagon. It's just too practical on too many levels.
  • jkumpire24jkumpire24 Member Posts: 17
    Folks,

    I would appreciate your help. I am at a loss as what I should do:

    Which should I purchase:

    1. 1997 Olds Silhouette GLS, 55K, immaculate shape, most all the extras, $7500
    2. 1997 Chevy Astro conversion, also immaculate shape, 77K miles, $8000.

    The tradeoffs: $600 less, fewer miles for the Silhouette vs. high quality conversion, more plush interior and extras, TV/VCP, better engine, less possible major problems.

    Carfax is clean on both vans, both are local owners with no major repairs, and are being sold by dealers.

    I just don't know which one to pick!

    Thanks

    Note: Also Posted on Triplets Forum
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Whats the Edmunds/bluebook value of those vans? Even in immaculate shape they both seem overpriced.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Whats the Edmunds/bluebook value of those vans? Even in immaculate shape they both seem overpriced.

    I agree whole-heartedly. Blue-book indicates otherwise, however (a loaded Silouhette is indicated at about $6,000 for Dealer Retail price).

    I'd have a hard time paying over $4,000 for a ten year old Oldsmobile (a company that doesn't build cars anymore).
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "Think of what an Acadia owner has to do to haul anything...physically remove the seats, store em etc..."

    The 3rd row seats fold down, which is the same as most minivans except the Chrysler. And if you have carseats, it's probably easier to just remove the entire seast when you need to

    "The only advantage for a CUV would be AWD and possibly styling, if one is that ashamed to be seen in a minivan. "

    Well, obviously styling is the big one, and a major reason why these were ever drawn up in the first place. I am also seeing a lof of posts about 22-25 overall MPG in the real world MPG forums for the GM CUV's, and not many vans match that
  • jkumpire24jkumpire24 Member Posts: 17
    Thanks for the thoughts so far guys.

    Sadly, IMO the vans are not overpriced. For the Astro, you have to figure in not just the cost of the van, but the price of the conversion, and the price offered is in line with it. NADA book here is only one that prices conversions, and while it is considered over priced by some, you are delaing with banks and dealers who use it.

    The Silo is a little harder to deal with since it is hard to tell what model it is GS/GLS. But it is in line with an Edmunds rated "outstanding" condition for a used Silo.

    It's a tough choice
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Well, it sounds as if you like the Chevy Astro better, so I think you should go for that.

    If this is for sale at dealership, or even private sale, I'm sure you could haggle the price down some. Both sound like very nice vans. Good luck.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Check out the crash test ratings on the Silouhette and see if you still want it. Any vehicle scoring "poor" would turn me away. I'm not sure how the Astro fares in the same testing.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    to recommend going with the Silhouette, as its IIHS crash test scores are horrendous, but then again, the Astro's scores aren't much better.

    In the end though, I want to say go for the Silhouette as it will be easier to park and be more fuel efficient. (on top of having a driver side sliding door, which will be more convenient)

    However, the price does seem high for a ten year old Oldsmobile, especially a minivan.

    I am also concerned at the mileage level; those 55,000 miles were probably not highway miles, especially if they were logged over ten years.

    I would probably direct my attention to a 98 or 99 Sienna with higher mileage. Sure it is smaller, but it is definitely safer, and if you're willing to drop $8000 or so, it might be the best buy of the 3.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Very interesting data quoted earlier:

    .....Total 07 sales for
    .....DCX vans: about 90k
    .....Odyssey: about 37k
    .....Sedona: about 16k
    .....Sienna: about 35k

    The obvious question is: "Why is Sedona with less than half the sales of the Sienna listed in 3rd place?" :confuse:
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Is it alphabetical?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Re-read the post, where do you see the word "3rd place"?

    It's on the third line because Se comes before Si, and in that sense, yes, Sedona is third after DCX, and Odyssey. ;)
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    The obvious question is: "Why is Sedona with less than half the sales of the Sienna listed in 3rd place?"

    It was listed 3rd because I was going off a spreadsheet that had total sales listed alphabetically by manufacturer parent (i.e. DCX first, Honda 2nd, Hyundai 3rd, Toyota 4th). [and I never even thought about listing them in order of sales]
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Following up on my earlier posts:

    Sienna had a relatively good April, with sales dropping just 1/2 of a percent (per selling day), compared to April 06. Total sales: 12,773

    Odyssey continued to be down: down 21.3% (per selling day)
    Total sales: 12,241

    Kia Sedona sales down: April 07: 2698 versus 4479 (for 06)
    Hyundai Entourage: April 07: 2697 (one shy of tying the Sedona) versus 126 (during its debut April 06 month)

    Town & Country: up a lot: 35% (total sales 15701)
    Caravan: up 11% (Total sales 23095)

    So, for April, it's the Sienna holding mostly steady (volume wise, down 1140 units), Sedona / Entourage net up about 1k units, DCX up a bunch (in per selling day terms, though in volume its 3500 units), and the Odyssey down a lot (in volume terms, down 4600). Altogether, down about 1200 units.

    BTW, highlander sold well, despite its coming redesign, up 2.4%; Pilot also sold well, up 3.9% [both of those in per selling day terms]
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I always thought monthly sales figures were a bit misleading. Yearly or year to date gives a truer representation.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    WHAT is the year to year sales data for the minivans?
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Here are 4: 07 06 % change
    Odyssey 49,587 56,054 -11.5%
    Sienna 47,732 54,302 -12.1
    ENTOURAGE 5,923 126
    Sedona 18,622 21,590
    DCX did not report YTD, so you'd have to go back and add them up yourself [YTD for March 07/06: T&C 36,871 / 38,988; C/GC 52,889 / 58,624]
  • lexan1965lexan1965 Member Posts: 118
    I just wanted to say we got a great deal on a "Special Edition" grand caravan. We hit the Dodge dealership on the last day of their national van sale and we struck it big.
    We bought a 32K van for 23K, tell me that's not a deal! The only thing this van does not have on it are the tire pressure monitors and the pedal adjustment. This dealer wanted to sell and gave us darn near Kelley bluebook on our '02 grand caravan. Expressway Dodge in Evansville, Indiana rocks!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Congrats on the deal:)

    I remember seeing the ads for that major minivan sale. They were advertising 0% financing for x number of months or $4000 cashback I believe.

    Is your price before or after all cashbacks? Did you go with the 0% financing?
  • lexan1965lexan1965 Member Posts: 118
    We did'nt get 0% financing, but with the trade-in, cash back (which totaled 4500 bucks). It was just a great offer we could not turn down. Hopefully with all the "bells 'n whistles" on the vehicle nothing will cause problems. ;)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Sedona and Entourage owners beware :P My wife's friend has an '07 Entourage with 20K miles (they drive a lot of freeway) and the tranny just EXPLODED when they were driving on the freeway. They had had some weird shudders between the 2-3 upshift previously, and the dealer told them this was "normal" and they did not think it was a problem. I've heard a few similar complaints in the minivan forums. They looked into trading it in as they've had numerous problems with it (random misfires, no-start, rough running) and this was about all they could handle... but, as with other Hyundai's, depreciation prohibited a trade in - unless they wanted to take a $9k hit.">
  • 11b33t11b33t Member Posts: 51
    And you post this here because......cricket symphony

    Why not post some data/info here about what the problem may be before coming in here slamming Hyundai? Are you saying that all Sedona/Entourage trannies have a 50/50 chance of EXPLODING with shrapnel spewing up & out into the pasenger compartment as well as slicing into nearby innocents? :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Are you saying that all Sedona/Entourage trannies have a 50/50 chance of EXPLODING with shrapnel spewing up & out into the pasenger compartment as well as slicing into nearby innocents?

    He certainly didn't say that, I believe you, my friend, are the one putting that idea into other readers' heads. Got it in for Hyundai/Kia do ya? Sounds kind of like it.

    I think they posted that because this is a "minivan shopping" board, and they wanted to make people aware there may be a problem with Entourage/Sedona transmissions for such an early failure.

    It may also be an anomoly, or related to the way that person drove the van. We may never know.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I guess it's good in a way that the transmission EXPLODED. :sick:

    That way your wife's friend will get a brand new transmission, instead of a rebuilt one.

    See, you have to look on the bright side in situations like this folks. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • 11b33t11b33t Member Posts: 51
    Point taken, and apologies extended to all. I'm not a one brand fan of any vehicle but I am suspicious when someone with a handle of 'gotoyota' comes into a Kia board telling folks about 'exploding' components and horrible depreciation rates on vehicles.

    I hope they (Hyundai) can figure out what happened and let the general public know if this is an anomoly that will be recalled. If not, I'd still like to know what circumstances caused the failure.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    No need to apologize to me. I agree, blanket statements that cover and entire manufacturer in a negative manner, and inflammatory words like "EXPLODE" are to be met with skeptisium.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    a modern transmission just randomly exploding. I don't think anybody on planet earth designs or builds a transmission so poorly that it just explodes.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    With a username of "gotoyota" shows so much credibility :mad:

    All of your posts except this one were in the Ody vs. Sienna thread, yeah, I believe your story...

    (end sarcasm)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I agree, it looks a little suspsicious. And I didn't mean to get all fussy (i just re-read my post and it was, I'm sorry :blush: ), but we have to remember some people exaggerate when they see a problem themselves (assuming the transmission did indeed fail, regardless of manner).

    My radiator hose was not clamped on my car and it left me stranded on the interstate two weeks ago. If I'd posted that night, I probably would've talked about my radiator exploding, it being 95 degrees outside, me about to die of thirst, and having to wait forever on a tow truck. Two weeks later, I can more rationally say that my car ran hot, it was warm outside, and the tow truck was there in 45 minutes.

    Its easy to get caught up in the moment.

    I haven't heard of a problem with Sedontourage trannies before that post though, which still makes me think, if that post is real (the writer hasn't returned, so we may never know all the details), it was an anomoly built on a Friday afternoon where one of the worker put the wrong widget in the transmission.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Now don't get suspicious because you see the name here, it's just my email. I actually do own an '06 Sedona, although its days may be numbered due to gas prices! I'm just writing because I'm amazed. I checked the Blue Book value of this baby, and to say that I was shocked is a major understatement. My van is 7 mos. old, with a little over 7k miles on it. It is valued at 1k more than the 3-year-old Passat that I traded it for. :( Wow..... I had always heard that about Kias, but I never believed it before.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I checked the Blue Book value of this baby, and to say that I was shocked is a major understatement. My van is 7 mos. old, with a little over 7k miles on it. It is valued at 1k more than the 3-year-old Passat that I traded it for. Wow..... I had always heard that about Kias, but I never believed it before.

    You didn't research it yourself before buying? Eek! I guess you are surprised. You'd probably be better off just enjoying your van than trading. The low selling value would override the gas you are paying now.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    In order of news release:
    May 07 May 06 [%change (DSR) May] YTD07 YTD06 %change
    SIENNA 12,837 13,102 -5.8% 60,569 67,404 -10.8%
    Sedona 2,500 4,625 -48.0% 21,122 26,215 -19.4%
    Entourage 2,544 1,068 +129% 8,467 1,194 +609%
    Joint Kia/Hyundai %s: Month: -14.8%, YTD: +8%
    Town & Country 14,379 17,326 -20% [no YTD reported]
    Caravan 18,236 22,685 -23% [no YTD reported]
    Odyssey* 15,235 16,887 -13.3% 64,822 72,941 -11.8%

    So, all except the Entourage (a new model at this time last year) were down significantly from last year. Of these, Sienna was holding onto last year's sales most closely, but was still itself down almost 6%. The Odyssey (with $750 dealer incentive cash) stopped its 20% fall, but still came in down more than 13%. The strong sales for last month for the now Chrysler vans has not been repeated, and Chrysler vans are selling about as poorly as two months ago, and the outlook is grim until the new 08 arrives (this also probably reflects no longer selling program vans to the rental agencies). For the first time that I know, the Entourage outsold the Sedona, but it was helped by a $2500 cash to buyer (plus something else probably), a bit more than the Sedona's $1000 cash.

    A grim month for vans. All of the manufacturers except Toyota were down more than 13%, in this the month before summer. The crossovers are truly taking over.
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Member Posts: 182
    I see and read elsewhere about the new 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan and all the improvements that it will have, and the new features available for it, but I'm curious as to whether Chrysler will continue offering a regular (short wheelbase) Caravan version as well for '08. Anyone have any idea?
    My wife and I had a ride in a regular Caravan and to be honest I prefer it to the overdone and boring stream of SUVs I see out there. Speaking for myself, though. No offense to any owners/drivers of SUVs. :D

    Inform, please...

    Looking forward-

    Peace!<- :shades: --
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even though Entourage sales look good, a more in-depth look tells you that it is cannibalizing the Sedona big-time. That's not good. Just 8% more total sales combined, and it costs them a lot more to offer two models.

    Better for the consumer, though, who can get a bargain on Sedonas that must be piling up on lots.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Even though Entourage sales look good, a more in-depth look tells you that it is cannibalizing the Sedona big-time.

    That's why I combined the Kia & Hyundai sales into 1 (they were not reported that way): you cannot really think of one w/o the other

    That's not good. Just 8% more total sales combined, and it costs them a lot more to offer two models.
    If you take out the January Sedona fire sale (>$5000 incentives on 06 Sedonas then) when Sedona sold 1500 more units in Jan07 than in Jan 06, the combined numbers for the year is up a mere 600 units (up 2% for the whole year).

    Better for the consumer, though, who can get a bargain on Sedonas that must be piling up on lots.
    I have to think that Kia learned a bit after this last year, and having to resort to the January firesale, so I doubt there will be as huge inventories. [I don't see many in my nearby lots, but what's there is not moving at all]
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the drop in minivan sales can, once again, be attributed to the launch of roomy, large, and new crossovers coming from Hyundai (Veracruz) and GM. (Acadia, Outlook, Enclave). The CX-9 and redesigned MDX (on the high end of the market) aren't exactly helping minivan sales either...

    Not to mention that Honda is heavily discounting Pilots...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, the MPV was dropped, GM and Ford aren't far behind in discontinuing theirs.

    The van market will likely continue to shrink. I say too bad. ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    it's certain DCX is killing the SWB minivan for 08, although I hear they're working on SWB "minivan" for 09 that's nothing like the new 08 Minivan except sharing some components.

    Both 6 cyls in the 08 minivans will be teamed with new 6 spd auto. That should help gas mileage
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'm sure the proliferation of these roomy 7 passenger full sized crossovers isn't exactly helping the minivan market ;)
  • nikbertnikbert Member Posts: 20
    First of all, I really appreciate all the nice posters here. Been lurking here lately and good to see a clean forum.

    My situation is that I've 2 boys, 6 & 9. Its time for a new car, and till now never had big boxy cars (wagons/minivans/cuvs etc).

    I like wagons, vans and cuvs. Wife likes cuv, wagons, sedans, vans. Kids like integrated dvd player, more room, capability to host 1 or 2 occasional friends.

    It will be my primary vehicle for commute as well as kids activities, family vehicle etc. I don't have many opportunities to haul big & bulky items, much less if at all for towing. Of course, who knows future!

    Will probably keep the vehicle for about 5yr/100k miles. Price is not a big issue, but not looking for any lux/expensive vehicles!

    Can wait till end of year to buy, but not more!

    Question is, since my kids are older (not babies/toddlers) do/will I really "need" a large ("> 5 seater") vehicle? The largeness of a large vehicle is probably needed < 5% of time I guess and they intimidate me ;-) Still, I'll drive them if needed!

    My choices are:
    Van - sienna, ody, 08 t&c
    wagons - subie forester, ???
    cuv - 08 highlander, 07 pilot, maz cx9, 3 GM siblings

    So what do you guys think?

    Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Question is, since my kids are older (not babies/toddlers) do/will I really "need" a large ("> 5 seater") vehicle? The largeness of a large vehicle is probably needed < 5% of time I guess and they intimidate me Still, I'll drive them if needed! My choices are: Van - sienna, ody, 08 t&c wagons - subie forester, ??? cuv - 08 highlander, 07 pilot, maz cx9, 3 GM siblings So what do you guys think? Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time!

    This is my personal opinion of course, but you really don't "need" anything larger than a CR-V in size. The backseat in that vehicle is large enough that I (6'4") have plentiful room sitting behind another tall person. With gas prices being so high still, personally, I'd avoid the V6 vehicles like Pilot, CX-9, GMC Acadia triplets, and Highlander (the 08 Highlander will be expensive being a first year model-no deals).

    Is there a reason that a conventional sedan wouldn't suffice? You get much more "car" for your money when you buy a car.

    (By the way, we had a 2000 Odyssey and we thoroughly liked the car, but didn't drive it a lot because it was more vehicle than we needed (i'm an only child) and used plenty of gas compared to our Accord (18 MPG vs. 24 MPG over the same route).

    This is one humble opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. You know your needs better than I do.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles