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Comments
As A Weapon" says that the extended warranty is a statement by the seller that their products are free from defects and will remain so for the specified period of warranty. The perception is that the longer the warranty... the better quality of whatever you are buying is. This goes for cars as well as furniture or appliances.So, using this logic the Kia Sedona would be of the best quality and reliability...and the Honda Ody the worst.
Exactly. I don't know who wrote that article, but the fact is, products with quality problems often offer an EW to persuade prospective buyers to "take a chance." Having a longer warranty means the opposite of having better quality. A number of people have posted on these boards that BECAUSE of Honda/Toyota's rep for quality they will NOT bother with an EW because they think they won't need it. If enough people feel that way, Honda/Toyota has no real financial incentive to increase the length of basic warranties or push EWs. The swwet spot is to buy a brand when it has just reached a high-quality level but still offers a very good warranty because of past problems. Best of both worlds.
Hyundai ties Honda in quality survey (CNN Money)
Steve, Host
Only fools will rush in to buy based on that where angels fear to tread...
Advertisers recognise that consumers are very gullible.
You hit it right on the head!
You are thinking like the smart, savvy business folks at Honda/Toyota!
It would be much easier for a Hyundai owner with the financial means to trade up to a Honda/Toyota than a Honda/Toyota owner to accept trading down.
Without badging, many minivans are indistinguishable on the outside as it is now.
Steve, Host
I guess this individual is saying he doesn't have a lot of confidence in the reliability of Honda Odys and Toyota Siennas. From what I have read in the Prices Paid and Buying Experience Boards .... there is a large percentage of Ody and Sienna buyers that purchase the extended warranty.I see a few now and then that say they don't think they need the extended warranty. But, the vast majority are into the extended warranty big time.More so with people who buy the Honda Ody than the Toyota Sienna.So, I guess all these people don't have confidence in the reliability of these vans they are buying?
I think a lot of people would be afraid to take that test Steve. Their world would collapse if they rated the "unrefined" Kia Sedona or DC van higher than what they are presently driving.
It use to be people laughed at the quality of Japanese made cars.Just like they use to laugh at Hyundai/Kia.They won't be laughing much longer...not at all if they're informed and keep an open mind about such matters.
The Koreans have quite some ways to reach that inflexion point. But then, Toyota and Honda are not sleeping. They raise the bar up further so the wannabees maintain their present status. Just observe...
Hyundai and Kia are disguised Buicks 25 years ago! Just check out the XG350 and the Amanti! Arggghhh!!
Just came back from another recent business trip in Chicago.
Had another rental T & C Entended version with Stow & Go seats. It was new with 205 miles with no license plate yet! This is my 50+ minivan rental(mostly DGC and T & C) in 18+ months.
It is absolutely no comparison with the Ody or the Sienna!
Do us all a favor and stop posting crap like this, please. Instead of wasting our time, go to your nearest Hyundai dealer. Ride in an accent and you will not change your mind about Hyundai, but then test drive an Elantra, Sonata, or the XG350 that you think so little of. I love my Honda Accord, but the Elantra is a steal at it's price. And the Korean manufacturers have come a long way since the Excel debacle. They offer a competent machine trimmed out with some nice goodies for the price. And the 6 year/60K bumper-to-bumper may be because they are trying to lure people back, but you know what...who cares? Look into the Hyundai boards, especially the popular Elantra and Sonata and you won't see many problems at all. Certainly no more than I see in the Accord boards, which you consider as so much superior. One of the few last things keeping the majority of people from buying Korean cars is the perceived stigma of owning what others consider an inferior vehicle. Just like everything else, image is a large part of it. At least all those people driving VW's ought to be trading in for a Sonata. With the realm of problems they are having in exchange for initial quality, why not trade up to a car that won JD Powers and Assoc. award for initial quality that also comes with a 6 year bumper-to-bumper warranty?
BTW, at the prices Hyundai/Kia sell their cars for....they don't have to match Honda. But they are worth the money for a lot of people's needs.
However, the Caravan SXT has the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger at MSRP $23,705 and the SWB T&C has the feature for MSRP $21,600.
The lowest priced Odyssey with the feature is the EX at MSRP $ 28,510.
You stated:
"Hyundai and Kia are disguised Buicks 25 years ago! Just check out the XG350 and the Amanti! Arggghhh!!"
Have you driven either car? I have and even though I'm too young for conservative type "near luxury" cars I still marveled at the quality and refinement. It really doesnt matter if Hondas are better. They are still great cars!
As for the Minivan currently offered by Kia, not many people suggest its "as good" as the leading Japanese brands. Doesnt matter to me cause the Sedona we bought has all the bells and whistles and is a joy to drive. You really aught to try one.
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
Eat some more!
Trade in your Honda for a Sonata and switch to their forum as well.
Maybe you do not have the guts to switch to an inferior performing vehicle vs the Accord. May be you do not want to trade down for the image reasons that you so described. QUality may a given in this case, but "fun to drive, superior handling" is quite another.
Even after test driving these same Korean vehicles, I believe the test reports of C & D, R & T that Hondas are superior performing cars.
The Civic and Accord are more superior handling, fun to drive vehicles than Elantra and Sonata! Similar Ody vs Sedona!!
I wouldn't generalize to all Hyundai and Kia cars, but if they can't make their best car well, what does it tell about the resto of the line-up???
Like you and I know, there is absolutely no comparison between Acura/Honda and Hyundai. It is like comparing an apple to an orange.
Equal quality comparison claim is one thing, but "surgical" handling and fun to drive in Honda/Acura cars like yours is another feature that is priceless. And if it comes with high quality too boot, that combo is unbeatable!
In fact just a few days ago, a guy in a Sedona was trying to hustle me in my Ody. We were on a city street in which I was doing 50 in a 45mph zone. When we were exiting on an off-ramp to the I-40, I floored the Ody and it easily exited the curving ramp at 60mph with no fuss; the Sedona could not keep up with the speed and the cornering(as it leans like a beached whale) as I could see him disappearing in my rear view mirror. The Ody easily reached 90 - 100mph with ease before I coasted to exit at the next ramp one mile away for my next shopping errand. Needless to say, the Sedona was no where in sight then.
This athletic, agile quality with fun to drive factor and great Honda quality cannot be beaten.
Is this forum about minivans or sports coupes? While the Ody may have some virtues *relative* to other minivans, it's still a minivan. Minivans are very underrated vehicles in terms of their versatility, but it's really gilding the lily to see any minivan as athletic and/or agile--as well as doing a disservice to vehicles that actually are so. I really am not out to knock the Ody, but sometimes the hyberbole needs to be reigned in a bit.
While I'm aware the new Ody has received some accolades for it's handling, I'd submit that the *operative* differences in handling among same generation minivans--the extent to which one can or should sensibly execute any particular maneuver while driving--are within a relatively small range, particularly among the major contenders.
But if you want an engaging driving experience like some of us do while driving, then the final selection becomes more critical. Among the available minivans, only a few (1 or 2)would cut it.
Well, apples and oranges are both fruit, are both round, have seeds, a peel, grow on trees. Lots of similarities.
Some folks may prefer to pay less for a Granny Smith and let other splurge on the organic Blood Oranges.
Steve, Host
Boy, did it (cross section) look gross compared to regular oranges. But the taste was passable!
Great analogy!
"In fact just a few days ago, a guy in a Sedona was trying to hustle me in my Ody. We were on a city street in which I was doing 50 in a 45mph zone. When we were exiting on an off-ramp to the I-40, I floored the Ody and it easily exited the curving ramp at 60mph with no fuss; the Sedona could not keep up with the speed and the cornering(as it leans like a beached whale) as I could see him disappearing in my rear view mirror. The Ody easily reached 90 - 100mph with ease before I coasted to exit at the next ramp one mile away for my next shopping errand. Needless to say, the Sedona was no where in sight then. "
Are you like 15 years old?
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
Steve, Host
I just love when someone in an inferior vehicle challenges me to show what a superior vehicle can do.
Just wanted to say that I picked up a stale 2004 Mercury Monterey for 11.5k off sticker the other day. Saw an ad in a local suburban paper and went to do the deal. They tried to stiff me so walked out over $900 and they called back a week later. Basic model, but much like a highline Ford. I think the differences in the minivans are real, but dramatically overblown. I am very happy with the product so far. Hope I can say the same 2 years from now. I plan on keeping the vehicle for 8-10 year.
Thanks and wanted to share my story
Eric S.
Our last minivan was a 1996 Windstar from which the Monterey and Freestar evolved. Same engine with a miniscule HP increase to 203. Our Windstar lasted 54K before it needed an engine job despite religious oil/filter changes every 3K miles or 4 months. Not to mention the very frequent trek to the dealer for warranty repairs that was very aggravating and waste of time. Ford has so much bad rap with the Windstar that they changed the name to Freestar in the hopes that it would be forgotten.
The C & D June 2004 minvan comparo placed the Freestar(Monterey) a distant last compared to the Ody, Sienna, Quest, DGC in that pecking order.
Since buying our Ody almost a year ago, we never had to take it back to the dealer for anything as I do my own PM( and have been for 30+ years). When we were buying the Ody, Ford was offerring $10K rebates on the Freestar/Monterey and I would not touch it.
The Ody is so agile and fun to drive that I forget that it is a minivan because it could be driven like any good sport sedan. This feature is priceless!
I don't know about you but I bought my van to drive my kid around in convenience and comfort. I'd suspect that most minivan buyers are in the same boat. You sound like a hormonal 15 year old with all that "challenging" bull.
I could afford any van out there. We tested the Ody and Sienna. I leased a DGC because we got a great deal and it had all the right features for us. Did I make a bad decision to get an "inferior" vehicle? I think not.
I have always been an energetic, spirited driver since getting my license 35+ years ago. I enjoy moving quickly instead of holding up the traffic at the speed limit on the fast lane. If I have to own a minivan for any reason, it has to be a high performing one compared to the rest.
I know my limits, have fast reflexes, and have never been in an accident in my life. The only incident I had was when I parked my car 25 years on the side of the road to visit my wife in hospital who gave birth to our first son. SOmeone crashed into the side of my car while I was in te hospital - he sufferred a heart attack and died behind the wheel. SO you see - a DEAD man hit me!
But seriously, you really shouldn't be driving that van like that. I know it's fun to pretend your a famous NASCAR driver or something, but you could end up causing an accident.Not to mention putting a strain on the already suspect transmission that the Honda Ody is known for.
The Honda Ody is a very good van. Up there with the top 3 or 4 on the market.But, fun and exciting to drive? Not by a long shot.To me it was about as exciting to drive as my dads old Dodge Dart.
Aunt Mildred would bore me to death! So she would not be a candidate. Buy you can have her for free! Maybe I would even connsider paying you to have her.
Everything is relative. In the minivan category today, only one or two stand out as great performers - the rest are wannabees.
Have not had an accident in my 35years of driving! A lot depends on how you anticipate the traffic, your driving reflexes, your personality(laid-back and energetic, etc) and road smarts.
I frequently drive the 800+ miles to visit relatives in Canada in less than 13 hrs including stops for gas, the john and lunch. For many long stretches(2+hrs), I can do 80+mph safely and without a speeding ticket by getting heroes ahead that I can use as bait (i.e. rabbit) for Smokey. Remember "Heroes die on the beach" as my uncle used to say.
Dude...sounds like you may have a case of Koreacarphobia. That's an irrational fear of Korean made cars.I'd have that looked at if I were you.
In any case, competition is best reserved for the track and not the highway.
Steve, Host
Perhaps there has been a reincarnation of the member Ody 01 from previous posts. He was a rabid Ody fan who considered it his duty to boast, name call and generally denigrate all other forms of human transportation. Eventually forum members just stopped responding to his baiting and he quit posting...actually, I think he may have been temporarily banned.
Topic is minivan shopping, n'est ce pas? The fact that you fell you are better, smarter, cuter, more afraid, or break the law routinely and get away with it isn't really the point.
Would propose that we all get back closer to center on this one.
What high performance? The Odyssey is only 1.5 sec. faster than the Dodge GC from 0-60 and only 1 sec. faster from 45-65. It's (less) than a sec. faster in the quarter mile. Plus the Odyssey only gets one mpg better on gas in the city and only 2mpg better than the Dodge on the highway. And that is with their new engine and transmission. I would think with that high performance engine that you keep raving about that can cut out three cylinders to save all that fuel and a 5 speed transmission, that Odyssey should be able to run away from the competition in both. But they only squeak by in both, to the old tech that Dodge is still using.
I don't know about you, but I think many people buy mini vans to take on long trips. I'm not sure how much I would like taking the Odyssey on a long trip with their firmer suspension. I really don't like hours upon hours of feeling that harder, firmer ride.
So I think you need to hold down the talk on how much greater that Odyssey is from everything else on the road. Even with all it's high tech., it just squeezes by Chrysler/Dodge and costs thousands more. Plus I have a much better sound system to listen to on those long trips.
You have to enjoy spirited, energetic driving to appreciate a superior prforming vehicle. If you are used to the typical Detroit products, then DGC would be fine.
In terms of actual performance, I don't think you know how big a difference 1 or 1.5 sec is.
At 60mph, that is 88 feet difference for 1 sec, 132 feet at 1.5 sec! Our Aunty Mildred would care!
Again one has to know what the difference means to appreciate the difference. My sons have all completed university and lead their own lives - so I don't need it to haul kids. However I want a minivan as one of my vehicles for the flexibility and praticality it provides. But it must be fun to drive, not one of those "ho-hum" ones that you can rent. I have rented 50+ minivans in the past 18 months, mostly DGC and some T & Cs.
That's your problem Macakava, your still thinking back to the first generation Dodge/Chrysler mini vans. The one made off of the K-car platform.(You remember, the people that showed the rest of the world how to make them in the first place.)I guess compared to the early models, that 2005 Odyssey would seem super fast and high tech. to you. Don't think you won't see that old tech. Dodge in your rear view mirror as you try and leave it in the dust.It'll be right up on your bumper with the driver yelling for you to hurry up.
At 60mph, that is 88 feet difference for 1 sec, 132 feet at 1.5 sec! Our Aunty Mildred would care!"
Well in a quarter mile, the Odyssey is only less than a sec. faster. Seems like the farther you go, the faster the Dodge is gaining on it. I guess if they went a few miles down the road, the Odyssey driver could quit looking for the Dodge out of his rear view mirror and start looking for it out of his left driver's window.
I know as I have driven 50+ DGC and T & C in the past 18 months.
You can't directly compare time to speed (0-60) and time to distance (1/4 mile) that way. It's that whole apples vs. oranges thing again.....
Besides, with ANY kind of top speed run, you're going to be limited by either the governer on the vehicle (due to tire issues), or horsepower vs. drag. These are both BIG vehicles punching BIG holes in the air. I don't know what the actual CD's are (coefficient's of drag) but I do know that Honda went to fairly extreme ends to lower the CD of the Ody as far as reasonable. And remember, the Ody has a 40 hp advantage.
I don't think you REALLY want to see a top speed comparison (which is after all, pretty silly; these are MINIVANS) between a new Ody and a Dodge; unless you like the looks of receeding taillights.
The Ody and Sienna just keeps pulling strongly to higher speed limits that would sweat your pants.
Poor boy, I wish that you had the comprehension to understand it to make it easier on all of us.
So I give up
I'm really glad you enjoy your Minivan. In a 100 years from now none of it really matters does it? I'm actually glad you are happy with your Odyssey cause the thought of you in a real performance vehicle kinda frightens me.
Everyone, Please agree with Mac that his Odyssey rules and all other Minivans suck this way he goes away.
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
Not a sportscar according to Mac