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However - I agree the dual-purpose is a huge appeal, in fact I've carried sheets of plywood inside, plus 16' long trex decking (hatch open), other lumber, mulch bags, etc. I just lay a tarp or sheet underneath it all.
I saw one guy who removed the 3rd row and built a trap door from plywood, so he had a flat floor AND the huge cargo well. Not sure where I'd store the seats, but I figure he's got nearly 200 cubic feet to play with.
You can always buy a Ford E-350 van for stuff like that.
I know my Dodge hasn't got the nicest looking interior, doesn't handle quite as nice as the Honda or Toyota minivans, but so far, it's been trouble free and a real workhorse. I have made two long trips with it, with my family the last two years to Ohio, from Arizona and have no complaints with them with the back seats being too hard. It really came in handy there too. As having the last row of seats stowed and one middle seat stowed, I was able to put luggage on one side and a air mattress on the other, so one person could lay down and sleep comfortably all the way there and back.
I think if your only going to use your mini van to haul people, both the Honda and Toyota is the better choice. But if you use it for a lot of other things like I do, you can't beat the Chrysler mini vans. The new ones have a lot nicer stuff on it than mine does. Thank God, they kept stow & go. I'm sold on it.
We rented one a while back and the space was certainly impressive, but I wasn't a fan of the inside.
Honda and Toyota left an open door for someone else to take the lead in this segment. Honda by reserving the best powertrain for the $40k plus crowd, and Toyota by cutting costs on the interior.
Here's the first drive review from C&D for the 2011 Dodge. Another positive review...
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
My dad has a 2009 Town and Country Touring. He uses his as a work van first, and then sometimes has my kids in it for trips out to their house. But he hauls shrubs, cargo, you name in in that thing and gets a lot of use out of Stow and Go.
Both vans are perfect for their applications. He's the first one to tell you that his seats are uncomfortable (they're brutal), the overall build quality of his van is abysmal, the handling is nothing short of awful and its slow. He's driven our '07 a few times and calls it light years better than his--wait till he drives my '11. BUT...for him...he needs that versatility and he actually uses Stow N Go.
For me..even if we had Stow N Go, I can't think of a single instance where i'd use it. We do sometimes have the third row folded down, and now that the Odyssey can take three carseats in the 2nd row--and is the only van that can do so--that will remain an option. So its a not a useful feature for me, especially since you have to give up build quality and seat comfort to get it. But I DO understand why it makes sense for some people.
I will say that my dad's van has had a couple of problems--sliding door stopped working (fixed under warranty) and he had some kind of steering issue which was resolved. In fairness, I had an issue with my torque converter on the Odyssey too. But the bigger thing was that his brakes wore out at less than 20k miles...and believe me, my dad barely uses him. He's 74 and he drives like it (SLOW.) He had to pay for new brakes. I traded my Ody at 44k and it still had original brakes and tires and was having no braking issues.
As my mom says...buy cheap, get cheap! (And his van was cheap.) I do hope that Chrysler steps up the quality of components in the new van.
OK, let me see...I've removed the seats from my van twice in the 3.5 years we've had it, and both times I knew in advance.
So for me it's very seldom, but it would still be a nice bonus.
Nissan has a clever seat but it doesn't quite fold flat, though it would probably still work.
Honda's come out with several software updates for the transmission. I had my transmission reprogrammed and never had the problem again. Simple, easy, and done in a few hours. And cost me nothing.
I actually believe the opposite is true. The vast majority of Odyssey's have no problems, or very minor ones. Because of that, the complaints that people do have stand out on boards like this. But the evidence does not lie. There are years and years of Consumer Reports reliabilty data to back it up, as well as several automobile magazine long term tests on both vehicles. Given that the most reliable vehicle according to Consumer Reports on sale in the US is the Ford Fusion, I don't want to hear about "bias," which is what people who don't want to believe the data like to say.
I sure don't think your Father is talking about the front seats on his mini van. They are as comfortable as any other. Now the back seats are firmer, but not brutal. I have two 4,000 mile trips on mine with passengers back there that can confirm that.
The handling of the Chrysler mini vans is light, a little too lite for my liking. I like a little more road feel, but I am use to it after 5 years of driving one.
Now I have the 3.8 V-6 in mine and while it's not quite as fast as the Honda, it's anything but slow. It can peel rubber from the take off. I doubt the Honda will beat me to 60 mph by more than a couple of sec. That might make it a little slower, but it's far from being slow. The new Chrysler engines are even faster.
Now one complaint I have heard about the Chrysler mini vans that seem legitimate, is that the breaks don't last as long. I don't know if that is because they are using a softer pad or not.
While true the Honda is nicer and handles better. Chrysler vans have the versatility to them that no other van can match. So if you mostly use your van just to haul people, you picked the right van. It doesn't fit my needs at all. Obviously it doesn't it fit your Dad's. either.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Let's see if Kia's new mill can produce good FE numbers. It's also getting a 6 speed.
The passenger seats on the Chrysler vans are uncomfortable. I suppose brutal is a matter of taste and semantics, but in comparsion to their competitors they are significantly less comfortable.
I hate the driving dynamics of the Chrysler van. The steering wheel is comically oversized, the steering is light to the extreme, feels artificial and imprecise, the brakes don't feel very confident. The new engine will help, he also has the 3.8 and I would argue with you on that point--its slow. Its around 10 seconds to 60--in this day and age, that's slow. There's some torque steer under hard acceleration to top it off.
The dual screen entertainment system is the best in the business, hands down. I give Chrysler full credit on that. But the quality of plastic otherwise is lousy, his van is very creaky and he's had a whole bunch of little parts come loose.
As I said, if you don't regularly carry passengers but want a minivan to haul stuff and also have the ability to carry people, than that's your van. Truth be told, that's a fairly small piece of the market, but it does exist. If you usually travel with people AND cargo, then I would wouldn't bother stopping at the Chrysler, Dodge or VW dealers and go straight to Toyota and Honda. You're going to get better quality all the way around.
Is this true and has Dodge fixed the problem and what was the problem to begin with?
283hp, 260lb-ft torque.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/11/2011-kia-sedona-gets-corporate-face-new-engin- - e/
My mix-up.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Had the same thing in my wife's 2004 Chevy Malibu Maxx. Rotors were either resurfaced or replaced 7 times in less than 25k miles. Service advisor had a simple explanation: cheap materials, poor quality, not meant to hold up to the type of traffic she was driving it in. GM made them put the OEM grade stuff on as replacements which simple resulted in the same problem 2-3k later.
In my 2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue, I went through like 4 steering shafts. Same thing. Part wasn't designed right from the get go, but GM never fixed it. Dealer had to keep putting the same busted part on--they knew it was a joke and apologized every time. Funny thing is, when I traded it for my 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, early on I noticed the same kind of steering shaft problem. This was a very early build on the new (current) body style. When I brought it into the dealer, they said oh yes, Toyota just sent out a TSB on this, the steering shaft has a flaw in it. They've redesigned the part. The new part installed a day or so later, and 70k miles later its been flawless (and that's been the only unscheduled trip to the dealer.)
And you wonder why I switched to Honda and Toyota...
This performance is considerably quicker than that of the Odyssey, which requires 8.8 seconds to reach 60 mph (8.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and goes through the quarter-mile in 16.6 seconds at 84.8 mph.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/sienna/2011/2011-toyota-sienna-vs-2010-honda-od- - yssey-minivan-comparison.html
Automotive - Eric's Autos: Reviewing the 2010 Dodge Caravan ...Jun 10, 2010 ... It also comes with the six-speed automatic. This engine delivers very good acceleration (0-60 in about 8.8 seconds) for a minivan. ...
www.arcamax.com/automotive/s-744030-123987 - Cached
2011 Chrysler Town & Country
Base Engine 3.6L/280-hp DOHC V-6*
Optional Engine None
Drivetrain Front engine, FWD, 6A
0-60 MPH 7.6 sec*
Seats/Foldway 7/2nd, 3rd rows
EPA city/hwy fuel econ 18/26 mpg*
Basic warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Safety ABS: S; Stab: S; Trac: S; Airbags: 4
*Estimated
Those tests are an empty van with just a driver. It would be nice to see them measured with 1200 lbs of payload.
For me the 3 seats in the middle row was crucial - we had a nanny, and that's also where the dog goes, more recently.
My Sienna's 2nd row seat tumble forward, so it comes close. I'm not sure if the new ones still do that, though. Toyota actually removed some of the versatility - I'm not sure if the front passenger seat folds flat any more (mine does), and the 3rd row no longer tail gates (mine does).
If I'm right, that's 3 strikes. Toyota is moving in the wrong direction.
I've noticed this in other print ads, as well. They try to hide or otherwise disguise the "lightening bolt" on the rear sides. In this example, they had the page break occur right at that point on the van. Pic looks as if magazine folks made error trying to line up left page with right. In another print ad, the marketing types pictured the van with the sliding door open so the "lightening bolt" was covered.
It is as if when given the project to advertise the car the marketing firm was saying, "Ok, but it would sure be a lot easier if you changed the design of those side panels!"
Can you do me a small favor?
Check if there is an article in there named "Car Tech on the Cheap"?
I'm quoted in the on-line version, but I'll pick up a print version if the story also appears there.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/16/2011-nissan-quest-first-drive-review-road-tes- t/
PDF Press Kit for more details:
http://www.nissannews.com/newsrelease.do?id=2084&mid=
My impressions:
Good
Boxy = space efficient
Nice interior
Clever folding 2nd/3rd row seats
Piping on the seats is pimpin'
Bad
last decade power/torque levels with no mpg edge
6" shorter wheelbase?
Cargo length is just 86.5"
That means it's a good 10 inches (!) shorter than the vans that can carry a sheet of plywood inside. I've done that in a Sienna, so I know it's 96" plus. I think Dodge and Honda can also do that.
So it's a smaller van, with middling power. I'm a bit disappointed, to be honest.
Could be just the ticket for people looking for something a bit smaller/nicer.
That's the problem...it isn't smaller at all. Its actually longer than the Sienna by about 1/2 an inch, and only a 1/2 inch narrower. Plus it is 2.5 inches taller.
When I first heard this was based on the Elgrand, I hoped that the JDM platform might give us a slightly more compact and easier to park van. Didn't happen.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Bad packaging by Nissan. Fail.
I am selling my Nissan Armada to Carmax pretty soon. For now, I need a small minivan/SUV that is not too old/not too high on mileage to be a daily driver and to be used occasionally for long trips. I know that I can't be too rough with it and have very high expectations, but I was wondering what will be the best option for me in terms of overall use on the long term (reliability, fuel efficiency, safety, problems etc.). It seems all the Japanese vans (Sienna, Odyssey, MPV, Quest) all have some type of trnasmission issues. Are american vans just as bad or if not worse? How is the pilot or any other SUV from Suzuki/Mitsubishi. Space isn't a big concern for me as I just need it to haul my 2 kids. I'm a pretty good driver and just want something that is safe to use (ratings, etc.) and won't leave me stranded.
Considering my price point, it would probably have to be something with horrible depreciaiton. I feel at this price point though, everything has lost all the value it was going to use.
Your responses are appreciated.
Thaks and Happy Holidays!
An Odyssey in your price range is too old and high miles. I would look for a nice Caravan (maybe even the shorty version if you don't need a lot of features) or a Chevy Uplander. You can likely get something in the 2005-2006 range if you shop carefully or work the private market.
That's a myth.
Odys trannys have been fine since about 2004 or so. I doubt you're shopping for something 2003 or older.
Siennas never had trans problems. In fact Toyota waited to put the 6EAT in the Sienna only after early issues were resolved, so used ones go with the proven 5 speed automatic.
I think either of those, used, would be fine for you. May be overkill with 2 kids, though. Consider a Mazda5 or Kia Rondo, which are a tad smaller. Ford will bring the C-Max soon, also.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
With regards to two kids, I should have specified, I have two kids but we occasionally go out as a family on long trips (6-7 hours) and need the space then...but that is honestly 10% of the time. Most of the time a sedan does the job for us. How are the Suzuki and Mitsubishi SUV's?
Anything to watch out for on the Rondo or Mazda MPV? How is the Sedona as well (2005/2006 models)? Any reliability/engine issues?
I know every car will age, but I just want something reliable for day to day inner city driving. I am in the Orange County, California area and I will look at Public Motor Auctions..would you guys advise not to? Any reputable used car places to go besides CarMax?
Thanks again for all the help! Merry Christmas!
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/11/zf-developed-nine-speed-transmission-is-comin- g/
Wow!
I hope that's the vision for their next van.
They got the powertrain upgraded, but let's face it, their van is sad looking. I test drove one anyway, but this concept looks a thousand times better.
Note the rear window echoes the grille design, a neat styling cue.