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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    The only real advantage Chrysler has over Sienna and Odyssey are the fold flat second row seats. That does come at a price, as the seat cushions are not as substantial. For some those tradeoffs are worth it. For others, who have child seats, the fold flat second row is somewhat useless. IMO, both Toyota and Honda are the vans to beat in terms of ease to use, best features, best powertrains, and best overall quality and resale. I like a lot of things about the DC vans, I simply don't think they are the best anymore. Still very competitive though, and should be more so when they update their powertrains and intereior design.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    The only real advantage Chrysler has over Sienna and Odyssey are the fold flat second row seats.

    That is a big advantage. For those that have car seats, you still have the third row seats to connect them to. That gives a family with kids the advantage of stowing one or two of the middle seats and putting in a stroller set up, or even a wagon in the middle. And they still have room to stow toys, diaper bag, purse or anything else not to big, out of sight. And they still have the rear storage bin for groceries.

    As for their modern power train, it doesn't run that much faster,(less than a second in the quarter mile) and only a little over one mile per gallon in mileage. So I don't see a big advantage there.

    As for Toyota and Honda are the vans to beat in terms of ease to use, I think Chrysler has done that quite easily. No van on the market is easier to use,(no matter what your using it for) than the Chrysler/Dodge.

    They do have the advantage of resale value. But lose some of that advantage with the higher selling price.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Odyssey has the most power, largest navigation screen, and most comfortable seats but lacks the overhead console and automatic locking doors.
    Sienna has an overhead console with a complete trip computer but lacks separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger unless one spends over $30,000 and the 2nd row seats are uncomfortable.
    Grand Caravan/Town & Country has Stow'N Go for 2nd and 3rd row, separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger in all but cheapest models but the trip computer now lacks the current gas mileage feature that is on my 2002 T&C LX.
    DC minivans have greatest depreciation because there are too many stripper models built for rental and fleets that do not have the 7 year 70,000 mile DC powertrain warranty. Used car managers rip off the buyer with a trade in saying "Why should I buy your GC SXT for $xx,xxx dollars when I can get a GC SE at auction for $7,000 less than Edmunds or Kelley Blue Book value". "The prospective buyer does not care if your minivan has all the extra features because all they are looking at is that both are long wheel base models".
    With the Odyssey or Sienna there are NO specially built stripper models to deflate the value of the nicer, well equipped models. ;)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Hansienna, I tend to agree with you on that. I think Chrysler tends to put out a model that every segment of the car buying society can afford. Where Toyota and Honda do not try and reach these people. I have never seen a Honda or Toyota van used by a plumber, electrician or a delivery truck. You won't find a mostly stripped down model that sells for under $20,000. They seem to go for the more affluent van buyer.

    I think you can also see that in many of these posts when it comes time to fix their van. It seems to me, many Dodge/Chrysler owners are more apt to try and fix their van on their own, rather than take it to the dealer as many Honda/Toyota owners are. Again, that's only my opinion.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Sorry, for me (my use) the second row seats on the DC vans just wasn't that big of a selling point. And I didn't like how they felt in terms of how comfortable they are. They also don't seem as safe, although they probably are just as good. Just a fear of a parent. Initially it seemed like a good idea, but then it wore off. We have already used the van with the split folding rear seats to great advantage (a crib, and a big Home Depot trip) and didn't need the second row to fold away. Actually the second row seats of the Sienna fold and tumble extremely easily, and this does give you a lot of room, just not as much as the DC. But my 5 yeard old can do it, can't say whether the DC seats are as easy. And the second row seats are quite comfortable. And if you need seating for 8, the Sienna offers that, not DC. And DC doesn't offer AWD anymore, Sienna does.

    The Sienna 3.3 feels more powerful than the DC 3.8, and a lot more so than the 3.3 of the DC. Probably helps too having a 5 speend auto. A slick powertrain versus an old one - I do see a real advantage here. The DC often gets called "coarse" in the media, the Sienna gets called a Lexus. I know which one I prefer. But I understand this is not important for others, it is for me.

    When I compare my Sienna to a DC, I do not see one area where the DC is easier to use (I would say both are pretty similar overall). My power doors, all 3 of them couldn't be easier to use. Doubtful that the DC buttons are any easier. Storage - the Sienna is loaded with useful little cubicles of storage. In the front seat area alone, I have 7 cupholders, 2 glove compartments, 3 other in dash storage centers, a center console that can be moved and mounted into the middle row if needed, an overhead display that is extremely useful and simple to use, 3 zone automatic climate control that is so easy to use, a 10 speaker (with sub) surround sound system that is very nice, with audio controls on the wheel, etc, etc. (and separate audio for back seat). These features were all standard on my xle for $26k. The DC vans (SXT, no options) that I looked at were similarly featured, for about $24k but they definitely lacked some of the nice features we have in the Sienna. Overall I liked the DC vans, don't get me wrong, and I recommend them to people shopping for a van. But they just weren't on par with the Sienna and Odyssey. And yes, the resale wouldn't be as good. And that does make a difference when one is leasing or needs to resell every so often. A used Sienna LE '05 with about 16k miles around here sells for about $23k, a used Dodge SXT '05 with about the same mileage sells for $19k. That diffference is made up and then some.

    One advantage the DC vans had, but won't have much longer is the great warranty. I saw in the news that DC is stopping their 7/70 warranty after this year, to concentrate on "other things" whether it's incentives, or cheaper initial prices, not sure what their rationale is. My guess is the beancounters realized they would lose more with this warranty than what they would gain with it. That was a great warranty for the consumer, sort of what has helped Hyundai increase their market share (and better products of course).
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    I haven't seen many plumbers or work vans at the University where I work use Sienna's or Odyssey's either. I mostly see them using Ford Windstars. Probably because they buy them in bulk, and since can't Ford can't sell many of them to the general public, they have to unload them somehow. Toyota and Honda have been careful not to dilute their image of a quality car manufacturer. Both sell vans in the $22k range, but you're right, they don't go below that. I wouldn't say they appeal only to affluent buyers - I am certainly not one of them, but you can't be all things to all people either. Making a quality $15k van is probably not possible if you want to make any profit, or much of one. Many of the plumbing or heating vans I see are full size vans (had one at the house this weekend) that neither Toyota or Honda make. A good niche still for the American companies, and one I hope they continue to make. I will say though, on trips to NYC for work, I am seeing more and more Sienna taxi cabs. Basic CE type vans, but they work well for the job. A sign of things to come?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    When I compare my Sienna to a DC, I do not see one area where the DC is easier to use (I would say both are pretty similar overall). My power doors, all 3 of them couldn't be easier to use. Doubtful that the DC buttons are any easier. Storage - the Sienna is loaded with useful little cubicles of storage. In the front seat area alone, I have 7 cupholders, 2 glove compartments, 3 other in dash storage centers, a center console that can be moved and mounted into the middle row if needed, an overhead display that is extremely useful and simple to use, 3 zone automatic climate control that is so easy to use, a 10 speaker (with sub) surround sound system that is very nice, with audio controls on the wheel, etc, etc. (and separate audio for back seat). These features were all standard on my xle for $26k.

    Wow, if you got a new van with all that for $26K, you did great. I congratulate you for making a great deal. You did much better than I.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    My wife and I considered the Chevy Uplander first because we have GM credit card points and our 02 Chevy Malibu has been great. But I really didn't care for its looks and hated the fact that side airbags (curtain or seat mounted ones) weren't available and there was no folding seat of any kind. It drove noisily and it also felt very cramped inside being so narrow. And it was pricy! The Uplander's fate was sealed after my wife test drove it. She complained that she had a hard time grabbing onto the steering wheel's fat spokes.

    My wife and I then went back and forth between the Quest and the DGC SXT. It came down to the price. We ended up buying an S model Nissan Quest for $650 under invoice (yes, you read right). After the 2K rebate, the price was $21751, and we paid a hair below $24K out of the door. The Quest we bought has standard side curtain airbags, traction control, 4 wheel disk ABS, power passenger side door, power liftgate, parking sonar assist, power rear flip out window, and of course the small stuff like floor mats, splash guards, microfilter, cargo cover and cargo organizer. To get those things in a Dodge Grand Caravan SXT, we would've paid about $23K, 1K more than the Nissan. We tried real hard in the beginning to get the DGC, but sort of gave up on it once we realized it wasn't gonna happen for $22K. The feature we miss the most in the Caravan is the 3rd row plit seating. We love the 2nd row stow-n-go as well, but the Quest's 2nd row almost folds flat although without the two storage wells. On the other hand, we love the Quest's vast head and leg room, big and comfy seats, and its modern querky looks inside and out ;) We also considered the base model Quest which doesn't have the power door and hatch and rear sonar but is $15K cheaper. Finally we decided it'd be worth paying the extra for the added convenience. BTW, the Dodge salesperson was very nice to work with. Happy motoring everybody :shades:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I answered this once and noticed it's gone.

    You got a good deal on your Quest. I think you were smart paying a little more to get those extras. After the newness and looks wear off, you'd always wish you had them, and you were able to do that without it costing you an arm and a leg to do it.
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    What package on the XLE did you get? $26K seems like a terrific price!
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    None, just the base XLE at $26,614. Leased it at $359/month, $0 down, and that includes the taxes for NY state. The option packages can add up quickly on the XLE. But it comes pretty well equipped for what I wanted. I didn't need or want a sunroof, leather, dvd, so for me, the base was adequate. I got it at FItzmall, anf found this particular van on their website. I hemmed and hawed about whether to get it, and decided I better take the plunge. My sales guy was great, and after I signed all the papers, he told me then (and not before, like some do to pressure you into buying it) that just that day, someone else wanted it, because it was very hard to find just a base model.
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    Do you get a power tailgate on the base XLE?
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Yes, and both side doors are power too, can't get that on any of the LE versions. Alloys, fog lights, storage console in the middle, 10 speaker cd JBL sound system are all standard too on the base XLE. I considered a Honda Odyssey EX cloth, but the cost to lease was a lot more.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Edmunds long term test Sienna with 5 speed AT is NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the Grand Caravan ES pushrod OHV 3.8L V6 with an old fashioned 4 speed AT. :cry:
    The Edmunds 2005 Odyssey with 5 speed AT is also NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the 1999 Odyssey with a 4 speed AT. :blush:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Edmunds long term test Sienna with 5 speed AT is NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the Grand Caravan ES pushrod 3.8L V6 with an old fashioned 4 speed AT.
    The Edmunds 2005 Odyssey with 5 speed AT is also NOT getting gas mileage as good as did the 1999 Odyssey with a 4 speed AT.


    Enough said about all that high tech, against that old stuff Chrysler puts out. Cheer up Honda, you still beat the Chrysler in the quarter mile with that high tech engine and tranny. It might have been less than a second, but you did it.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    It might have been less than a second, but you did it.

    A very noticable second as most people, even minivan haters, notice. DC vans feel like a rental KIA after a BMW. Look that way too.

    You are most welcome to buy a KIA. Even better value then your DC. :)
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    Leased it at $359/month

    Shopping by monthly payments and buying fairy tales about someone else wanting it "just that day".

    I wish I have had more customers for my software just like that. :D
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    I guess I missed the part about where he said he was "shopping by monthly payments." The post I read had this information:

    None, just the base XLE at $26,614. Leased it at $359/month, $0 down, and that includes the taxes for NY state.

    Without your "editing," this would indicate to me that he knew the price, any capital cost reduction for the lease (0 in this case), and the situation with potentially exhorbitant state taxes. But then I wouldn't bother calling passing along a story told by a salesperson after a transaction was completed "buying fairy tales" either.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    It might have been less than a second, but you did it.

    Nice Motortrend review

    Comparing a $32, 495 Dodge GC - 205hp engine, same as upper models for Chrysler get. LX and Town and Country gets 180hp.

    Even base $23K Odyssey gets 255hp engine and ALL safety features.

    Numbers are (DC vs Honda)

    0-60: 10.2s vs 8.6s A very noticable 19% difference in performance.
    60-0 136ft vs 123ft A car length worth when braking.
    45-65 passing - 5.6s vs 4.3s Few seconds less in the opposite lane on your trip
    lateral acceleration - 0.69g vs 0.76g - getting into an accident vs avoiding it
    traction control - NO vs YES - flying off the road, vs staying on the road..
    turning circle 39.4 ft vs 36.7 ft - making a 3 point turn on a busy street vs a U-turn.
    tested economy - 18.4mpg vs 19.8mpg - and still Odyssey takes 7.5% less fuel.

    I fail to see how you can call this objective numbers in any sort of a negative way for Odyssey comparative performance. And note that the simpler Odysseys will not get worse performance (rather more, as they are lighter) and less safety, unlike DC. Just read the table.

    More to read here.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    I guess I missed the part about where he said he was "shopping by monthly payments."

    He has previously motivated a choice of base XLE vs EX based on $50 (or was it $75?) difference in monthly payments he was quoted. With the price of the vehicles beeing roughly equal. I was curious about that beeing wise (in the nice internet spirit of flaming) as the base XLE is a real stripper (affecting residual value etc. it is a very nice car when so equipped IMHO) and whether all financing options were properly studied.

    But then I wouldn't bother calling passing along a story told by a salesperson after a transaction was completed "buying fairy tales" either.

    It sure sounds like it, I have heard plenty of those, before and after a transaction. But you are right, I should not pass judgement. I apologize for that. (Can not edit the old post now).
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    Yet another review All reviewers around seem to be singing one song.

    But if you want a van that is not only people friendly, but can do everything you ever thought a van could do, and in many cases, do it better, the Chrysler/DGC are the best on the market.

    If you define people friendly as safe and fun to drive, the comparison with an Odyssey I have posted completely destroys your argument. Can not argue with numbers.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    I agree with you!

    I have rented many DGC and T & C (over 60 in the almost past 2 years) in my business travels. Some were brand new(under 10 miles on the ODO) and loaded with leather and the big engine.

    I was always happy to get back to my Ody for its fun to drive, spirited acceleration, and "sporty" handling. And best of all, I have never taken it back to the dealer for repairs or PM(which I do myself).

    Hassle free ownership and fun to drive - unbeatable and priceless!

    When it is time to replace my other 10 yr old car - I may strongly consider another Ody for the same attributes above.

    The Ody looks cooler than the Scion 'Box"; is more spacious/practical and it would leave it in the dust in a heart beat(255hp vs 110hp) - have done so many times. I may even fool some folks and attach some Harley badges on all 4 sides. SMILES!!
  • j_ericj_eric Member Posts: 1
    $26k-that's a great price. I looked at a similarly equipped Sienna here in the metro Milwaukee area and found the price to be north of $34k.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "the base XLE is a real stripper "

    Then what would you call the CE & LE?
  • mcgrath1mcgrath1 Member Posts: 2
    Hi
    Be warned: I have a 2004 Sienna AWD, has run flat tires, 10 months old, 15,000 miles. Be warned: I have had two punctures already requiring replacement of $300 tires (each). Now all 4 tires have been at low pressure for God knows how long but the "low tire pressure" indicator did not come on for this low pressure...it only does only "if the tire is almost flat from a puncture since they do not detect pressure, but rather differences in rolling speed of the wheels" according to Toyota Customer Service...so now I have a further $1200 in new tire bills to pay....avoid this car -at least these run flats - like the plague, and know that the "low tire pressure" light is not what you think it is...its a "different wheel rolling speed" indicator.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    As with any article, it is interesting to read the entire article. Each minivan had plusses and minuses. Read the quote about the Grand Caravan quality of ride compared to the more expensive Odyssey and Sienna:

    "It's the roomiest of our trio, has the most innovative storage solutions, and, in our instrumented ride-quality test, tied the Sienna for bounce control and bested the Odyssey and Sienna in pitch and roll control."

    Hmmm..... the Grand Caravan had the most comfortable ride and the article stated that the GC is the least expensive of the 3. ;)
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    Hmmm..... the Grand Caravan had the most comfortable ride and the article stated that the GC is the least expensive of the 3.

    I guess it depends on your definition of "comfortable". At least they use an objective cretiria with an accelerometer - 20% more RMS acceleration on Odyssey. I would blame PAX tires on Touring (still better then runflats on Sienna though). PAX is a misguided experiment in my opinion, but with quite some future potential. EX rides better (and still even faster) and is just as quite.

    The word "control" though is misleading in the out of context quote. "Insulation" is more appropriate to what they have measured. It is rather easy to underdump your shocks - a sign of a technically challenged suspension design.

    For me (and apparently for most reviewers) this extra root mean squared acceleration comes mostly from "road feel", and I do find the tune of DCG ride thouroughly nauseating. Apparently I am not alone.

    Touring model used in the article is indeed the worst deal in the Odyssey lineup IMO. At least when going down one does not have to lose performance (smaller engine) or safety features. And why would not the worst car in a reviewer cost least? You get what you pay for.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    So what some are saying is, since the Daimlerchrysler minivan doesn't have all of their safety features as standard and doesn't have stability control or roll over sensors, it's not as safe as the Ody. Well, for the price that you pay for the Ody., you should have all the safety features as standard. (It cost a lot more then Daimlerchrysler minivan's). Seeing that the T & C and DGC cost less than the Ody. and Sienna, it's not a problem to pay a little extra for the additional safety features, which you still come out cheaper then the Ody. and Sienna. As far as stability is concerned, you should know that you get a better stable ride with a solid rear axle and leaf springs, compared to an independent rear axle and coil springs under heavy loads. (That's why Daimlerchrylser minivan's have a stiffer ride). I'm sure the Ody. and Sienna both ride good, but I would bet that under heavy loads that the Daimlerchrysler minivan's would be better controlled and less bouncey. You don't see trucks with independent rear suspension or coil springs. They use leaf springs and a solid rear axle for better stability, control and better to carry the weight without sagging.

    dae "And why would not the worst car in a reviewer cost least? You get what you pay for."

    You sure do get what you pay for: Ody. problems: Rattling sliding doors, power door failure, doors hard to close, ear buffing, poor gas mileage, wind noise, finding replacement PAX tires, bad radio reception and transmission woos. Boy, you sure told us. Let's see how many Daimlerchrysler owners are having these kind of problems that you consider our minivans the worst. :shades:
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    We've owned four new mini vans, 3 Dodges and 1 Sienna.

    The Sienna is the worse vehicle I have ever owned. It was all over the road, didn't lke wind at all, but others don't like wind either. If the roads were a little rough it was hard to handle. It was a white knuckler..

    Don't take a Sienna to the hight moutains, S-curves, etc. If you do this very ofter I think you would burn up the transmssion....Two Toyota dealers told me this was normal for the transmission to get stinking hot. Excuse me, I've been driving in the the mountains for years and have never had a transmissions get hot like that. Even when I pull my fith wheel through the mountains with my Ford Power Stroke the transmission doesn't get hot like that.

    The bottom line. I got rid of my 04 Sienna after one year. It was way over rated...
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "it was way over rated"

    I thought the same of the 2004 Ody after test driving it. Seemed to ride and accelerate much like the Sienna. Was a nice van...nothing special. Exterior of 2004 Ody fairly plain and unimaginative. So, Honda listened to all you who complained and stole much of the 2004 Mazda MPV exterior styling and put it into their 2005 model.2005 Ody much nicer.Touring model has outstanding interior.

    While the Mazda MPV can't match the size, power or amenities of some of it's competitors...it wasn't meant to. Has more than enough power off the line as well as passing power on the highways. Has plenty of room on interior...perfect for a family of 4. Has a quiet comfortable ride ... seats are comfortable...even for 7 people.Has car-like handling qualities, brakes are excellent. Interior and exterior styling complimentary...elegant, sporty and sophistacated styling.Is made in Japan...fit and finish and overall quality of workmanship is superior. Reliability is as good or better than competitors.Has a 4 yr/50k bumper to bumper warranty. A loaded LX a much better value than the ES. Sadly, is probably the last year for the MPV. :cry: Redesigned 2007 model will be available in fall 2006...though not in U.S.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I think I have said many times that both the Honda and Toyota are very nice vans. I look on both of them more as people movers than anything else, as I am sure most people that buy them would not use them to carry much more than people, strollers, toys, baseball gear and etc. I can't see very many putting plywood, 2x4's, furniture or most anything else big in them.

    I have tried not to put the vans down except that I think they are over priced and are not as trouble free as many Honda and Toyota owners want to make them out to be. But I have watched here as Honda and Toyota owners have slammed the Dodge/Chrysler in things as," I do find the tune of DCG ride thoroughly nauseating. Apparently I am not alone." Apparently not, but you haven't heard anyone that owns one, or even anyone that has done a product review on them, say they didn't handle very nice. Just some Honda and Toyota owners.

    I listen to others say the outside and inside of the Dodge/Chrysler is ugly, seats are hard. While I admit, I think the dash on the Honda is beautiful and they have some nice colors in them. And I love the inside of the Toyota, I wouldn't call the Dodge ugly. Especially outside. I still think the outside is nicer than all the vans. Inside, I think Chrysler could use a lot of color and chrome. Ugly? No. Plain? Yes.

    Yes, the Honda and Toyota is a little faster and gets a little better gas mileage. But the Dodge is fast enough for me. You see, I bought a minivan, not a hot rod. I bought a people mover and a working van, not just a people mover. Your Honda does an excellent job of moving people. Mine does an excellent job of moving people and being a working van too.

    While your vans look lovely inside. To get all the features I have and want on a minivan, I would have to pay about $8,000.00 more for a Honda or Toyota, and I still wouldn't have a working van, just a people mover.

    You can keep saying the Dodge/Chrysler are junk but people who own them know better. We love the way they ride. We love the quietness of them. We know the sliding doors work well and love the top quality radios and A/C in them. We love the front seats, they fit like a glove. We think Stow-N-Go is the next best thing since ice cream. We love the storage the van has that no other van can compare to. We love the overhead computer. We love the fact that we're ready to put in our vans, anything that can fit in a van and do it on a moments notice.Best of all, we love the idea that we got it all for the price we paid. Were happy no matter what you think of our vans.
  • elsiebelsieb Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I'm new to these forums so I hope I'm in the right place to get some advice. I have to decide between a low mileage 2001 Town and country and a high mileage 1999 Odyssey. Has anyone run into driver’s seat fire problems on Canadian market 1999 Odysseys like the driver’s seat fire on VIN 2HKRL1866XH003866? And what about any transmission problems? I intend to keep the car for a long, long time and while reliability is really important to me, so is comfort and utility for an adult and 4 children. I appreciate any help.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Given that the tranny problems started with the 1999 models, I would be very concerned buying that model, especially with high mileage. Chrysler had their minivan tranny problems in the 1990's as well - but that has been resolved I believe.

    I have an '04 Ody built in June 2004 and the tranny recall was only to Odys built to Dec 2003. So the tranny on Ody's built from 1/2004 onwards had the modification/fix included as a brand-new, not rebuilt tranny.

    From a driving point of view, I find the Ody to be more fun, spirited, "sporty" and engaging to drive than the other minivans, and that drove my decision to buy it.

    Back to your choice between the two vehicles, it depends on many things such as mileage differences between the two(eg 50K vs 150K), mechanical conditions, and whether the tranny recall/fix was done satisfactorily on the Ody. If your priorities in a minivan do not include fun and engaging to drive, etc, then the T & C with lower mileage looks more attractive. I would have both minivans mechanically checked out thoroughly before deciding.
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    When i am driving a sedan, I notice the Sienna Blinds my rear views during night whenever it's behind me, or when i try to take a left-turn. I was always wonder why does Sienna owner really enjoy turning on the Highbeam, actually it's not, is just that the headlight sit TOO high, and causes road hazardous
    the picture of the 3 mini for comparison http://motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_minivans/index5.html
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    I just have to say that I don't think irg considers his base Sienna "a real stripper." He clearly stated in an earlier post "But is comes pretty well equipped for what I wanted I didn't need or want a sunroof, leather, dvd, so for me, the base was adequate.

    I also know for a fact that he did not want the side curtain air bags for the back seat riders. I won't explain why, you can read the explanation on some earlier posts, but it was important to him and by buying the base XLE he eliminated that problem. I think he simply bought the van that fits his budget and personal preferences and eliminated paying for any extra features that he really didn't want or need. Why wouldn't he? Doesn't everyone?

    I don't think anyone's cars are "strippers" I think everyone has different budgets and preferences and usually buy accordingly. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone that the car they just bought was a stripper unless I was making their monthly payment!

    As for the fairy tail thing. I think a fairy tail is an event that is highly unlikely to have happened or to happen such as, pumpkins turning into carriages, beasts turning into princes and so on. I don't consider more than one person wanting the same van in the same day a fairy tail, I consider that highly likely to happen especially since I have heard that the base XLE is hard to come by. Just my opinion though! ;)
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    While you may not see many plumbers or electricians tooling around in a Ody or Sienna, there are PLENTY of taxis in the NYC area that are Odys and Siennas. Meanwhile I have seen one DGC taxi ever in the NYC area. Most likely because of the previous trouble with DGC transmissions, but this does say something for the reliability of the Honda and Toyota offerings. Taxi drivers do not suffer expensive to maintain vehicles for long here in NY. So it is not just consumers assuming the vans are a good value, to be driven as taxis they pretty much HAVE to be.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Like I said on another forum. The Honda and Toyota are great minivans. Both look very nice, good looking inside and are reliable.

    I think they would make a great taxi. If you're just looking for a people mover, you couldn't go wrong with either one. That is, if your only interested in taking your wife/husband and kids from point A, to point B, you couldn't go wrong with either van. Their top of the line.

    But the Dodge/Chrysler is more than a people mover. It's a family van. It can do things that Honda or Toyota can't do.

    If your going on an over night trip, you can sleep in the back of a Dodge/Chrysler van. You can't in a Honda and Toyota.

    If your kids want to take their motor cycle out in the country and ride it, you couldn't get it in those two vans.

    If you bought a new stove, dresser, Lazyboy, you couldn't get it in those vans. You could carry it in a Dodge/Chrysler minivan.

    You could load a 25 gallon air compressor on wheels and put it in the side door of a Dodge/Chrysler van, with one seat stowed, all by yourself. You couldn't do that with either of those vans.

    You could put a double stroller, all set up, in the side door of a Dodge/Chrysler minivan. You couldn't do that with either of those two vans.

    So when you buy a van, you should know how your going to use it. Are you just going to take you, your family and a few small things from point A, to point B? If so, you couldn't go wrong in buying either the Honda or Toyota. Both should give you years of good service.

    But if your going to use it as a family van and you know their will be many times you'll want to carry other, bigger things in it. Go camping in it or etc. The Dodge/Chrysler is your best and maybe only choice.

    How you use it depends on what you buy.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    Well put. But have you actually tried to do any of those things in an Ody-Sienna and found that you couldn't?
  • elsiebelsieb Member Posts: 2
    Many thanks for the advice. Buying the red Town and Country today. I'll sacrifice fun and driving engagement for peace of mind over transmission worries and driver's seat fires like the one on VIN 2HKRL1866XH003866!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    You can probably get a great price as well given the weak resale value of the Chrysler minivans.
    Infact, I would use that(historical low resale value) and the fact that you can buy a brand new 2005 DGC for about $16K with all the rebates( according to the local Raleigh newspapers) to drive home a very hard bargain.

    Good Luck!

    PS: I never heard of driver seat fires before. Maybe that driver's [non-permissible content removed] was on fire for some other problem! :)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    FYI - an owner of either the Odyssey or Sienna can, indeed, do EVERY item on your list. The only difference is that you simply stow the 2nd row seat, whereas the Ody/Sienna owner takes the seat out. Yes, the DC vans have the advantage in that actually removing the 2nd row seats is somewhat harder than folding them into the floor. But to say that Ody/Sienna owners CAN'T do those things is more than a stretch.

    BTW - why the fascination with the ability to load a double stroller in the side door? Why wouldn't you simply have the kids in the middle seat (where mom can actually access them easier from the front seats), and fold the 3rd row into the floor and load the double stroller, all set up, in the back?

    Does it REALLY make sense to place the kids all the way back in the 3rd row, fold the 2nd row (just because marine2 HAS to make use of his nifty-keen stow'n'go seats), and then place cargo between mom and the kids? I wonder what happens to all that unsecured cargo in the middle of the van in the event of an accident?

    Same with your 25-gallon air compressor: doesn't that belong in the back, behind the 2nd row seats, rather than rolling around between the 1st and 3rd rows?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    BTW - why the fascination with the ability to load a double stroller in the side door? Why wouldn't you simply have the kids in the middle seat (where mom can actually access them easier from the front seats), and fold the 3rd row into the floor and load the double stroller, all set up, in the back?

    I think trying to load a double stroller in the back, all set up would be pretty hard for a woman. Especially when all she needs to do is tilt back the handle and roll it in the side door. Same with loading a compressor, except one person couldn't do it in back. It also can be rolled in the side door. Only one seat would have to be stowed to get either of them in and both can be secured by the anchors in the floor by a bungy cord or rope. In an accident, what is to prevent both from being thrown forward when setting or laying the back with no way of tying them down?

    Does it REALLY make sense to place the kids all the way back in the 3rd row, fold the 2nd row (just because marine2 HAS to make use of his nifty-keen stow'n'go seats), and then place cargo between mom and the kids?

    Only one child needs to be put back in the third row. But even if both were in the second row, mother couldn't reach them from the driver's seat. Wouldn't we want to make things easier for mom? That is what Stow-n-Go does.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I think trying to load a double stroller in the back, all set up would be pretty hard for a woman."

    Yes, we all know how weak our womenfolk are. :blush: (you are kidding, right? It's a STROLLER.)

    "In an accident, what is to prevent both from being thrown forward when setting or laying the back with no way of tying them down?"

    Keeping them from being thrown forward? Ummmm, the 2nd row seats maybe? I find it hard to believe that you think it is somehow safer to stow cargo between the 1st/3rd rows, in the MIDDLE of the passenger space, rather than behind the 2nd row. If you honestly believe that, then I can just disregard the rest of your posts in the future.

    "Wouldn't we want to make things easier for mom? That is what Stow-n-Go does."

    It is easier on mom to have the kids in the 3rd row, rather than the 2nd? If that's the case, why don't all moms around the country simply remove the 2nd row seats on a semi-permanent basis? I'm sure my wife would be thrilled by that idea.......
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Yes, we all know how weak our womenfolk are. (you are kidding, right? It's a STROLLER.)


    It's obvious you haven't seen some of these double strollers, or tried to even imagine a little woman like mine, try to lift it up and push it in. Go look at some the next time your at the store.

    I'd also like to see one man pick up a 25 gallon air compressor and stick it in the back. Hernia, here we come.

    Keeping them from being thrown forward? Ummmm, the 2nd row seats maybe? I find it hard to believe that you think it is somehow safer to stow cargo between the 1st/3rd rows, in the MIDDLE of the passenger space, rather than behind the 2nd row. If you honestly believe that, then I can just disregard the rest of your posts in the future.

    Behind the second row? let's see you put a stroller or air compressor behind the second row. I am sure you meant third row. But yes, it is safer, because you can tie them down between the first and third row. There are several places in the floor to tie them down with that one seat stowed. You can't tie them down behind the third row seats. I have a good come back for your last sentence, but I won't stoop that low in using it. I want to just discuss the advantages of owning one or the other's van.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Relax guys. We're just talking about vans and not politics ;)
    Actually as I have posted before, the one thing we like the most about the DGC is the 3rd row split seating. With the split seat, you can just drop a portion of it and roll the double/single stroller in without collapsing it. This would work perfectly with our 3 little kids. Of course we love the 2nd row stow-n-go too and the storage wells. But we were finally won over by the Quest's good looks and followed our heart rather than rationality :)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "let's see you put a stroller or air compressor behind the second row. I am sure you meant third row."

    I think we're discussing whether it is 'better' to fold the 2nd row (stow'n'go) to increase cargo carrying capacity, or if it is 'better' to fold the 3rd row (virtually all other vans) to increase cargo carrying capacity. At least that is what I'm referring to. In which case I did indeed mean placing items behind the 2nd row (you know, it that rather large space between the 2nd row seats and the rear hatch).

    Are you saying there are no tiedowns provided in the space between the 2nd row and the rear hatch (traditional cargo carrying space) whereas there are dedicated tie down areas in the space between the 1st/3rd rows?

    In other words, is the preferable cargo area, as designed by DCX, the space between the 1st/3rd rows RATHER THAN the space between the 2nd row/rear hatch?

    "I want to just discuss the advantages of owning one or the other's van."

    Then let's do so. The advantage of the stow'n'go is that it is much easier to use the 2nd row seating area for cargo should the owner chose. With vans with removable seats, it is harder to use that space for storage. THAT'S IT. I honestly believe that your stance that it is preferable to use the 3rd row for passengers and the intervening space for cargo as opposed to the more traditional placement of cargo in the rear with passengers in the 1st/2nd rows is reaching.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I have yet to drop the third split seat, but that would work with a stroller. You have to follow what you like and what works for you.

    I guess I like Stow-n-Go so much because up till Dec. of last year, I drove a pick up truck. Have for over 15 years. Being a home owner, I used the heck out of that truck remodeling my home, fixing up my yard, etc. It wasn't until my brother and I helped my sister move that I ever even thought of having a minivan. We both loaded up our vehicles and moved her stuff, load after load. Of course we had to take the second and third row seats out of my brother's van, which I hated. But he let me drive it one trip and he drove mine. Loved the way it drove and parked. But what really got me was how much more we could get in his Dodge van than I could get in my truck. Mostly because he could pile as high as the ceiling and I couldn't get over the height of my bed walls, except for tall stuff. But I didn't even think of buying one because of those seats in his van. They were way to heavy to take out by myself and I didn't like that. Well, last Dec. I took my truck into the Dodge dealer to get an oil change. While waiting for them to finish, I went out and looked at trucks and minivans. The salesman comes up and shows me those stow-n-go seats and I got very interested. When he offered to knock off over $3,500.00 off the sticker price and finance it through Chrysler for zero % interest, I bought it right then and there. I haven't had it back to the dealer yet, except for an oil change and I love it as much as the day I bought it. It's easy to carry stuff in and easy to get kids in and out of and carry the dog with me. I constantly keep the passenger's side seat stowed and it's a snap getting almost anything in and out of that van. As I said, it's people friendly.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I definitely agree marine. It's wonderful you got yourself the van you absolutely love. Enough said. Isn't that what it's all about? The DGC is definitely a helluva van for the money you pay! Are the Odyssey and Sienna nice? Sure, but you pay for the niceness too. Not all folks are able to or want to shell out $28K for a van.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Rorr, in most cases it is better to put stuff behind the third row seat. I did today with three 5 gallon water bottles I filled at the water store, for my water cooler. (I save a bundle getting it myself) I stuck them down in the well so they wouldn't spill over.

    But it was much easier for me to put that air compressor in the middle where I keep that one seat stored. There are hooks on the floor the seat hooks to when up. I can easily put a rope threw those hooks and tie that air compressor down. It was also easy getting it into the van using the side door. I just wheeled it up to the door pushed down the handle of the compressor to lift the wheels up. Pushed it again about two inches till the wheels caught on the floor of the van and then just pushed the compressor in and tied it down. There is no way I could have lifted that compressor up the back hatch by myself. It's higher and the bumper sticks out to far. to get it close enough. Plus, there are no hooks in back to tie it down.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Are the Odyssey and Sienna nice? Sure, but you pay for the niceness too. Not all folks are able to or want to shell out $28K for a van.

    It would have been over 30,000 to get one with a power rear hatch, from what I have been reading. And $28,000 doesn't even get you the over head computer. Not sure about the upgrade radio, CD/cassette.
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