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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    If you are going for the 16-18k range , I would buy new. Either the Mazda MPV or Kia Sedona...2005 shouldnt be that bad in terms of quality.It does have a very good warranty. I doubt your going to be able to fit an 80lb dog and a couple road bikes in the third row folded down area. You may have to pull out a second row captains chair or let Fido ride shotgun.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    At $18K and under budget, the DGC at $16.9K with rebates would be very compelling! With a little stretch to under $20K, the Quest with rebates would be my choice.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I'm looking at getting a new car at the end of this year or thereabouts, and will probably end up with a minivan.

    With GM's employee pricing for all, I'm sure everyone will have to do more.....Seems like you have time on your side!!! This is a good start, thinking months in advance!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Get a Grand Caravan or SWB T&C to have the reliable, powerful, economical 3.3L V6 engine. Nice discounts and rebates are now available. ;)
    If you want a nice heavy minivan with less interior space and lower fuel economy, :cry: the Kia Sedona would be an excellent choice and also has nice discounts and rebates.
    If you want a small minivan with the fold down rear seat, mid range fuel economy and "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom" get a Mazda MPV. :blush:
    If you want to spend most of your time getting to know mechanics, buy a used Volkswagen Eurovan :lemon: as a Volkswagen needs more frequent, costly maintenance than all the rest combined.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    waiting for the Mazda5?
  • charlotte7charlotte7 Member Posts: 144
    I am doing that, have had my eye on the 5 for a while, but I'm concerned that it's going to be underpowered. (I also think they're ugly, but that's really not as important.) I have a stick shift car now, and I don't want the manual 5, though I know that will supposedly improve it's 157 horsepower performance. There's too much traffic I have to drive in to deal with a manual anymore.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Another option to consider beyond minivans, is the Ford Freestyle. New they are more $ than you want to spend, but you might be able to find a demo or by next year a 1 year old model for around 18k or so. They are a nice alternative to minivans, and are very roomy, but ride more like cars. Since you don't have numerous kids, this could be a good option. I have a Sienna which I love, but if I didn't have 3 kids (well, 2 and one due in about a week) I would have gone a different route, like the Freestyle. Autoweek magazine recently did a comparison of a Honda Odyseey vs. the Freestyle - which is an odd but interesting comparison. The Ody won, but not by much. I was expecting the Honda to trounce it, and it didn't. What is also interesting, is that this is the 3rd (or 4th) version of the Ody, whereas the Freestyle is a brand new vehicle. Can only get better too. And I think the price was set a bit too high - I have seen very few on the roads where I live. So bargains might be plentiful, especially by the end of summer.

    If a minivan is a must though, I would look at the MPV then. I like it better than the Sedona, and the gas mileage is better too. I didn't consider either of these vans, for a number of reasons, but I also don't have local dealers for these models, so I wrote them off my list for this very reason. Good luck.
  • charlotte7charlotte7 Member Posts: 144
    I have liked the looks of the Freestyle, but thought the price was too steep. I would definitely consider a used one if it was in my price range.

    I haven't seen but one on the roads here in Austin, either, so obviously others think they're pricey, too! Do the Freestyle's seats fold down? I would really like to avoid having to take the seats out to put the bikes in.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    I think they do fold down, although you won't have as much room as a minivan, it will still be pretty good, and better than most SUVs. What about putting bikes on top of the vehicle on a bike rack, or on the back of the vehicle? Also, the Freestyle can be had in AWD, although in Austin, probably not a big deal. It's funny, in that Ford finally makes a really good vehicle, that even the enthusiast press likes (although they complain that it should have more power) and yet no one is buying this vehicle (yet). I would much rather own this vehicle than a Ford Explorer (and I own one of these). But the price does seem - while not unreasonable, it still seems a bit high. Yet compared to an Odyseey or Sienna, it seems reasonable. Supply and demand though - if there is little demand, the prices will have to come down. Although I thought that would be true of the Ford Freestar (way too expensive) and yet I see few on the road, and the prices still aren't cheap...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As far as being underpowered, I don't think you have anything to worry about with the 5...157 horsepower should be plenty safe when it comes to merging in traffic, even though it might not be a lot of fun. I drive a '96 Accord Automatic with only 130 horsepower. It is not a powerhouse engine, and at first I was nervous on uphill on-ramps. I soon learned, however, that my fears never came true, all I had to do was wind the engine up to above 4500 rpm, and the little car scooted up a hill with (albeit noisy) ease.

    I happen to think that the 5 is a nice-looking vehicle, and know others that share my feelings (my father, for one), so don't be afraid of driving it if you don't like the styling, because plenty of others think youd be stylin'! :shades:
  • edkleinedklein Member Posts: 34
    These questions are a bit more historical in nature, but I figured this would be the best forum to get them answered. I think it's still on topic as it relates to the innovation of the companies that we're all shopping.

    1. What was the first minivan to offer a driver side sliding door?

    2. What was the first minivan to offer a power sliding door?

    3. Which one was first with the power rear door?

    Of course, these days, you have to offer all three to be a player in this market. I'm just curious as to who was first to market with these ideas.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Daimler-Chrysler were the first with these features introduced first on the Dodge and Chrysler minivan twins.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Wasn't GM first with a power sliding door on the right side? :blush:
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Member Posts: 228
    I think it was GM, probably the Silhouette "dustbuster" about 1994. The Silhouette was first with the built-in TV/VCR - late 90's.
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    http://www.allpar.com/model/m/first.html

    A little harder to find the other companies' minivan firsts....maybe we'll get some help with that.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    List does not include Power Sliding Door...so GM must have been first with something.
    I looked at the 2005 GC and T&C again and am impressed with ALL of the extra storage space under the floor when 2nd row seats are in place to haul passengers. Driver, front passenger, and 2nd row seats are more comfortable than my 2002 T&C LX but my 50/50 split tip and fold forward 3rd row seat is much more comfortable than the 3rd row seat of DC minivans with Stow 'N Go seating. ;)
    Salesman and sales manager said no more 2005 models are in the pipe line. All future inventory will be 2006 models but they had no more information.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Honda was the first company with DUAL Power Doors on the 1999 Honda Odyssey EX.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I looked at the 2005 GC and T&C again and am impressed with ALL of the extra storage space under the floor when 2nd row seats are in place to haul passengers

    There is almost as much room under those second row stow-n-go seats, as there is in the back well that stores the third row seat. I usually keep one seat stowed and the other up. But you can see in that picture I put up, some of the stuff I keep in just one of those bins. There is a big furniture pad, battery cables, tools, tape, flashlight, umbrella, a can of fix a flat, portable radio and rope. All stowed out of sight. And I still have the other bin if I need it. There isn't another van on the market with anywhere near the storage room as is on the 2005 Chrysler/Dodges.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    This is a win - win for all of us, it'll ripple across all manufacturers!!

    Chrysler may match GM deals
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    Somehow I just don't see Toyota and Honda following suit.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Somehow I just don't see Toyota and Honda following suit.

    Me either. But if they did, I'd buy a brand new Odyssey EX-L NAV-RES immediately! :D
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Did anyone see the long term quality report from J.D. Powers that came out yesterday? I'm not sure how much I can say about it on here,but Americans have finally a lot to crow about.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    And I think the mini van that was chosen was a 2002 Ford Windstar. Funny, but that seems to be the least talked about and least wanted van on these boards. But you're right, even though Lexus won overall (again) GM and Ford have shown improvements in longer term reliabity, according to JD Power. Not sure if DC was mentioned much. The Germans actually seem to be the ones suffering the most in quality these days, although not in the same way the American companies had quality problems.

    This a good thing for all consumers, not just American made buyers. It forces all competitors to keep making great products. No one can rest on their laurels anymore. Hopefully, the American companies finally realize this, after suffering through the 70s and 80s of thinking they had no competition. The Japanese have forced GM & Ford into making better products, and now the Koreans are after the Japanese. It's a dog eat dog world.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Nothing new. Back in 1967, my friend told me his Mercedes was expensive to maintain and there were quality problems. He said the foreign made air conditioning did not measure up to the quality of that in US made vehicles.
    Back to minivans. I do not read owner posts of many problems in 2005 DC minivans but I have read owners report many problems with 2005 Odysseys. :blush:
    Buy what you like best even if you have doubts about reliability or quality. That is what my friend did when he bought his Mercedes...and it was so enjoyable to drive that he felt the problems were more than offset by owing a vehicle he liked.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    It's good to know that the quality of American vehicles has gotten so good. It also really helps the American economy . For years American manufactures have suffered poor quality compared to the Europeans and especially the Japanese makes. Now we have at least two GM vehicles that have out scored Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Avalon. Some of the best cars Japan puts out. I didn't see how Chrysler scored with their minivans, although J.D. Powers did rate the 2003 better than average and the 2004 among the best of the minivans. Congratulations GM and Ford.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    I agree that you should buy what you like. For the "casual" mini van purchaser - by that I mean someone who like myself needs a van for their situation in life, (3 kids and 2 grandparents close by) but would prefer something like, oh a Porsche or Ferrari, it makes sense to buy a van that is both enjoyable (as much as a minivan can be) and has good quality. For me the Sienna fit the bill, but most of the vans out there today are pretty decent. The GM vans didn't do it for me, but the Honda, Nissan or DC vans all would have sufficed and excelled in different areas.

    While German cars have a high level of owner satisfaction (I've owned two, an Audi and a VW) because they are by and large very nice driving machines, they have suffered quality lapses over the last few years, notably Mercedes and Audi. Doesn't mean they are bad vehicles, I think the sophistication in the electronics and other areas, has been a part of the problem, and recent inidcations are that Mercedes for one seems to have turned the corner, but I rarely see any mention of Mercedes as best in initial quality. High resale though, bested only by Lexus. (Last I checked)
  • jdubsjdubs Member Posts: 5
    See the raw government video footage of the side impact test....

    http://www.safercar.gov/
    See the "Safety Concern" they note in bold letters. Shame on Honda.

    So, let me see, your wife gets hit driving it, she's ejected and killed....

    If you don't skip this vehicle for that reason, you aren't human !
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Today I got full use out of my Dodge's stow-n-go seats. My brother called me up and asked me if I would go to Home Depot with him and pick up a three piece bathroom vanity, vanity top, toilet, medicine cabinet, light bar and molding strip for my sister's bathroom. He has a Plymouth minivan but didn't want to have to take his seats out to get them in. I jumped at it, as so far, I'd only had to stow one middle row seat to get things in.

    The Dodge/Chrysler may not be as good looking in the inside, as the Honda/Toyota, but it is more family/work friendly than any van on the market. I would be surprised if more than a few Honda/Toyota owners would even dream of taking their seats out and putting that stuff in their vans.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Hopefully Honda will take note of it and fix it. I REALLY like the Odyssey.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    A lot depends on what you want to do with your minivan. If you enjoy being Mr. Congeniality, that's fine for you. For me and lots of others, I will not buy a minivan to use as a service for others - they would love you dearly for your services. These folks can also buy a minivan - but why do so when Uncle Marine will volunteer his services. Sponging is the name of the game here.

    I will buy a minivan for my driving preference and treat it with as much care as my other family vehicles, not to be used as a free-loader for others.

    It is like being stuck as the day care for the all the kids in the neighborhood because you have a nice pool... Your neigbors will love you for all the wrong reasons.

    Happy July 4th!
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    "The Dodge/Chrysler may not be as good looking in the inside, as the Honda/Toyota, but it is more family/work friendly than any van on the market."

    I tend to agree with this point. That's why we wrestled back and forth between the Quest and Caravan. The Stow-n-go is tough to beat!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    For me and lots of others, I will not buy a minivan to use as a service for others - they would love you dearly for your services. These folks can also buy a minivan - but why do so when Uncle Marine will volunteer his services. Sponging is the name of the game here.


    Not quite like that. We do for each other, because it's Family. My brother and I spent the whole day today putting that new bathroom together. She saved a weeks time waiting for it to be delivered and over $50.00, by me being able to haul it. The trim was the only thing I had trouble with. It was almost to long to get in the van.

    But like we said before. One should know what your going to use a van for, before buying one. There are passenger vans and there are work/family vans. I knew I would need a work/family van and not just a passenger van when I bought the Dodge.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Ha Ha. This "Safety Concern" would NOT prevent me from buying a 2005 Odyssey.
    How can a person be ejected if she (or he) is wearing their seat/shoulder belt? :blush:
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    All my neighbors have SUVs/Trucks, so nobody asks me to borrow my Odyssey.

    I don't think ANYBODY has ever asked me to borrow the Odyssey...
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "I don't think ANYBODY has ever asked me to borrow the Odyssey... "

    You should be happy that no one has asked you yet.
    Do you want them to? If you do, you could become very popular for the wrong reasons.

    I will NOT borrow another person's vehicle. I would rather be independent, do without or rent one. And my expectations of them are the same. Accidents happen unexpectedly and I do not want to make excuses for any.

    I will only drive another person's vehicle if he/she requests that I do so because of illness/tiredness/drunkenness/etc or I believe that my life is in danger due to his driving.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    heavy, bulky items like marine2 described above would do a number on your interior easily, especially on the tonka plastic surfaces which everyone has in their cars. Also I can say is marine2 is a really generous person and I would love to have hime as a neighbor or family member.

    The only time I would "load it up" is when they are packed in cardboard boxes, ie, ikea and another furniture joint who also does that.

    And of course there is always the neighbor who works in a bank but drives a brand spanking new F150
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Another reason not to buy a DC minivan where the seats can be stowed for ease of hauling bulky cargo.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "Also I can say is marine2 is a really generous person and I would love to have hime as a neighbor or family member."

    Me too!

    I would love to have Marine2 as my neighbor for selfish reasons. I can adopt him as my "Uncle" or "God father" :)
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Actually, people get ejected all the time even WITH seat belts. The force generated in an accident is just tremendous. That said, I doubt the Odyssey is particularly worse just based on that one crash test :confuse:
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    "Not quite like that. We do for each other, because it's Family. "

    Exactly, that's what family is for. I'd hate to have a brother that doesn't even want to lend his van to me. What kind of a brother is that? And the same goes for friends. Good for you marine2.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    We now have two persons, Marine2 and Tamu2002, that the nieghborhood can sponge from.

    By the way, it is quite coincidental that these two good samaritans, have the number 2 in their forum names.

    Any more want to upset this nice number by making this a three-some or higher by willingly lending his/her minivans for others to haul their loads?? Anymore who don't care that their minivan is damaged/more used in this process?

    Let us make a list so that we know where we can get help!
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Thanks Macakava. And come on, you're not gonna say "no" to your family either if they come beg you ;) I'm meticulors and very gentle with our cars, so I'd excersize extreme caution when moving big things...or say "no" if I have to.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Of course not.

    But one has to be selective about each case. Because it would be far cheaper/less aggravating to rent a vehicle than to fix any damages to my personal vehicle.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Agreed. Personally I would be very hesitant to borrow someone else's van, especially now that I finally have a good paying job ;) I'd rather pay for the delivery.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    We now have two persons, Marine2 and Tamu2002, that the nieghborhood can sponge from.


    I have carried stuff in my new van for my brother,(air compressor) and the bathroom fixtures I mentioned for my sister. A wagon for my daughter. Nowhere did I say I do things like that for neighbors or friends.

    Unlike your Honda, that has cloth on the side paneling,(if I remember right) and those big handles on the back of the seats, I don't need to worry about any handles and the Dodge has plastic on the side panels. I am not worried of tearing or scuffing the plastic, as it hasn't touched it yet. If it did, it wouldn't do any damage.

    Your Honda isn't made to haul much of anything without taking extream care not to rip or break something.

    My family comes from the old school where one helps family when in need. I know things like that isn't done much anymore, but thank God we still believe in it.

    When I needed help replacing the main water shut off valve on my house, guess who helped me?

    I wouldn't buy a vehicle where I would be afraid to put anything in it. That is why the Dodge is family friendly and the Honda isn't.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Blood is thicker than water in my side of the fence as well.

    But when I buy any vehicle, be it a minivan or any other car, it is for the driving enjoyment and inspiring sporty handling it provides, NOT for the reasons of hauling goods for others. I like to encourage independence in others because dependence can easily become a habit and that leads to...
    I do not want to be an enabler.

    As they say, "Teach a hungry man to fish and he won't be hungry for the rest of his life. Give him fish and you would be stuck with doing so daily - welfare"

    By the way, my Ody can do exactly what your DGC can do as well. I never had to remove the second row seats - if necessary, I would move it; I ain't dead yet.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The Koreans have improved quality and features at an exponential rate.
    How long before the Kia Sedona is # 3 in sales volume after the leader # 1 Grand Caravan and # 2 Town & Country? ;)
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    I have a '98 Plym Expresso that, within the last 2 months has: taken 6 people on a Six Flags trip to NJ (full day trip), hauled an aging grandmother's stuff (my g/f's grandmother's bedroom furniture) from NY to New Orleans (yes, it was a 22 hour trip and yes, i drove all the way straight down to see if I could), transported linoleum and carpeting for my mother's house (15' rolls), and most recently packed the trusty minivan COMPLETELY full of my grandparent's belongings and transported them from VT to CT while still managing to get 30MPG on the trip down. I consider myself to be helpful to my friends/family/whatnot and would not hesitate to take out the seats to get things done. Like any other person without a new DGC variant that doesn't have StoNGo, if we need to take the seats out to do something we want to do, the seats will come out. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather not, but it's not that big a deal. Get a friend for 5 mins and the seats are out and in the shed/garage/etc.

    What I really wanted to stop was the talk about the interior. I don't know what the rest of you do when concerned about things and the inside of your van, but I always put down a drop cloth and/or pad things that would rip up the interior. Plastic interiors may be some people's cup of tea, but I'd rather have the nice interior and deal with the relatively small inconvenience of having to put a plastic liner down the few times I need it. More often than not I am either transporting no one and nothing, a few people, or things that can't do much to my interiors. I wouldn't really choose any minivan as a work van, unless you are primarily hauling light things. You cannot beat the hauling capability of a full size van or pickup.

    Having said all that, I like both the DGC offerrings and the Odys for different reasons. If the Toyota dealers where I am weren't such jerks I would be able to possibly offer up some compelling reasons for driving the Sienna.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    do not want to be an enabler.

    As they say, "Teach a hungry man to fish and he won't be hungry for the rest of his life. Give him fish and you would be stuck with doing so daily - welfare"


    I have had my van for eight months now and hauled stuff in it three times for three different family members. I think that is far from being an enabler. Guess who is going to watch my dog for 18 days while we go to Europe? Family helping family is what it's all about Mac.

    By the way, if you'd had hauled my sister's bathroom stuff, you would have had to take out those middle seats.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The initial data on the NEW 2004 Sienna was very impressive but a close examination of the interior showed that manufacturer brochures are often not very accurate indicators of the actual vehicle. :cry:
    Same with 2005 Odyssey (and virtually every vehicle produced).
    After reading in Edmund's Town Hall for some time, the numerous owner postings of problems with the Sienna and Odyssey scare me. I am now afraid to buy either a new Sienna or Odyssey where problems are likely to occur. :sick:
    On the other hand, the problems with DC minivans appear to be mainly with older models of the mid-90's. ;)
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