CR-V vs Escape

smsuvundecided · March 2004

Then why is carmax thriving? I moved to the Chicago area less then 2 years ago and there was only one carmax here. Now there is eight. Seven of the eight sell used cars. Carmax sells used cars by the boat load.

BTW two Toyota dealerships offered me double what the two Ford dealerships would give me for my trade-in. Proof that Ford doesn't want to resell their own used cars.

stevedebi · March 2004

Proof that the Toyota dealers are likely upping their prices to compensate for the difference. The final contract is the important thing - it lists all costs and charges, if you can decipher it correctly. Often the dealer will give you good trade in value - but get the money back due to the higher cost of the vehicle you are buying.

You may have shady Ford dealers, it is possible. However, it's also possible that the Ford dealers were giving a more honest price on the new car, or that they know their used Fords better. Plus you have to realize that the Ford dealer may not value the cars as much - they are selling similar vehicles for not much more money. The Toyota dealers are selling a different brand, and may not mind having the used car on the lot, which may generate a sale if their new vehicles aren't what was wanted by the buyer.

It is always best to sell your vehicle outright to a private buyer rather than a dealer.

Re: Carmax. They are doing well because they get the used cars cheaper, thus their profits are better. The fact they are prospering is proof of the "lower value for used cars" concept. This is a bit different from the "trade-in value" debate.

explorerx4 · March 2004

what kind of financing did the toyota dealers offer? you were probably counting on 0% from ford.
what was the discount from sticker? are you sure they might not have said, at some point, sorry we made a mistake on your trade in? we can only give you x instead of y.
maybe you're just stirring the pot.

smsuvundecided · March 2004

I'm purchasing a vehicle, but it's not contingent on my trade-in. Basically I want the price they are going to sell me the car for and second how much they will give me for my trade-in. They are separate to me.

As it stands, I'm trying to sell my car on my own, because this friggin dealers won't to nearly steal your car from you. They give all the usual BS about prepping it for resale and yadda, yadda, yadda. But that doesn't justify giving me half of what the car is worth.

I have about 10 dealers calling me every week. One of them will bend and give me what I want, but I think they are waiting for me to bend. I won't, I can wait all year or just not buy. Actually, I will buy, but on my terms and my time.

explorerx4 · March 2004

here's my suggestion. post over on the 'real world trade in values' thread. that may clear up what your current car is really worth. i'm not saying it's not worth what you think should be.

stevedebi · March 2004

Once you bring up the idea of a trade, the dealers start to incorporate it in their thinking. If you tell them you don't want to trade and then get the deal together, they won't honor the price if you then mention trade in. They are looking at the deal as a complete transaction.

varmint · March 2004

"I'm purchasing a vehicle, but it's not contingent on my trade-in. Basically I want the price they are going to sell me the car for and second how much they will give me for my trade-in. They are separate to me."

But that doesn't wash for the dealer. For them, it's all one transaction. They can give you a good deal on your trade, but only if they over-charge you for the new sale (or vice versa). Even if you can win on one transaction, you'll lose on the other.

Fact is, dealers usually get a higher profit margin on their "certified pre-owned vehicles" than they do on new cars. That is especially true of the domestics with all of their financing deals, rebates, and incentives. The profit margins on new cars are paper thin. For that reason, one of the imports may be able to give you a better deal on your trade because they are certain they can make a decent profit on their new cars.

If you want to negotiate separate transactions for your old vehicle and the new one, you must deal with separate sales. Buy the new car as one transction (no trade). Sell the old car to someone else (private sale).

scape2 · March 2004

scare me. You have someone, you don't even know come over to your home. You go out on a test drive with them.. who knows what may happen? Do you have insurance? do they have a valid license? Is the check good? is the banks cashiers check real? so many ifs.... If the car does have problems, they know where you live...
The facts are: Honda vehicles are more expensive option for option than a Ford, Chevy or Dodge at new purchase. Therefore, resale should be higher.. I say Should. Funny, the Honda dealers were trying to do the same to me, steal my Accord...

baggs32 · March 2004

It's funny that this conversation started while I was experiencing it first hand. Here's my story.

If you've been following along (And for some reason care.

) my wife and I own a 2002 Escape and owned a '96 Civic EX coupe until this past Saturday. We've been going back and forth on what to do about our vehicle situation ever since our first child was born four months ago. The Escape is great for a young family, but a 2-door aging Civic is not.

So we first decided to trade the Honda in on a Mazda3 or a Mazda6. What's not to like? Both have four doors and are fun to drive. Problem solved. Or so we thought.

Then the NAIAS came along and I saw pictures of the production '05 Mustang and my head started spinning (I've always wanted a Mustang but never had the opportunity due to life's little twists and turns). I had to have one.

A month and a half went by and I kept contorting my body to get the little tyke into the back of the Civic and hated every minute of it. A week later (this was last Tuesday the 23rd) we put an ad in the paper asking $6000 for the Civic. It is also our first time selling a car privately. Pretty scary as scape mentioned.

Several calls later I had some appointments set up to show it this past weekend. All Dad's wanting to buy it for their sons. Go figure.

Saturday morning a guy calls me, is close to my house, and I meet him, and his son to my surprise, in the parking lot of the local grocery store (Never invite them to your home scape!). The kid test drives it, with me in the passenger seat and Dad in the back (And with only a learning permit as I later found out), and loves it. Dad makes an offer I couldn't refuse, gets a check from the bank, transfers the title, and we're suddenly a one car family.

Yesterday I called the local Mazda dealer, told them what I wanted, and was informed that a similar model was rolling off of the truck at that moment (Coincidentally, the same thing happened to us with the Escape). The wife and I skipped out of work to go see it and drove it home last night. We are now the proud leasers (I'm still gettin' that Mustang, but not for three more years.

) of a 2004 redfire Mazda6s 5-speed.

Three things come out of this story and one of them is actually related to this topic believe it or not.

1. Don't be afraid to sell a car privately. A dealer would never have given us what we sold the Civic for. We gave the buyer a fair price for a clean, low mileage car. It needs some work, but it should be a great first car for his son. Just make sure you sell it to someone you trust and walk away from all the others. Even if it means a little less dough.

2. Some cars are worth more than others in the long run. I don't remember ever arguing against this but I am going to share what I think about that now.

If I were to sell my old '98 ZX2 right now KBB says I could do it for about $4200. The Civic, which is older, fetches about $2000 more. However, the difference in purchase price was almost exactly $2000.

Based on my recent experience, the Honda probably could have gone for about $3000 more than the Ford due to current demand and the condition/mileage of the vehicle. Therefore I think it all depends on the vehicle when it comes to what's worth more at trade/sell time. Our Civic is in high demand and it sold for more than expected. ZX2's are extinct and weren't all that popular to begin with.

Something like an older CR-V might not fare as well because of the leaps and bounds manufacturers have made in SUV's over the past few years. The Civic actually changed for the worse in some ways making the older models a lot more desirable. By comparison, new CR-V's are better all around making the older model look, well, old.

3. (Here's where we get somewhat back on topic) The engine in the Mazda6 is a 3.0L Duratec V6 with VVT. It has 220 HP and 192 ft-lbs of torque.

The Escape/Tribute/Mariner triplets also have a 3.0L Duratec V6. Only their version has no VVT and only makes 200 HP and 200 ft-lbs of torque.

Why on earth are they not using the Mazda6 version of the 3.0L in the triplets?!!! It is easily one of the quietest, smoothest engines I've ever had the opportunity to drive and it delivers some serious power to the drive wheels.

It looks the same as the engine in our Escape, and the exhaust sounds very similar but yet they are worlds apart.

In my opinion, adding this engine to the triplets would separate them from the pack and leave all the others behind in terms of quality and sales. I'm sure they have their reasons for not inserting it, but it boggles the mind.

varmint · March 2004

Oh yes, never, never, never sell a car from your home. Always arrange to meet in a public place. A busy parking lot, like Baggs suggested, is a good example.

Here's the Edmunds Guide to selling a car. It doesn't mention the specifics, like where to meet people, but it provides a good set of guidelines.

http://edmunds.com/advice/selling/articles/45786/article.html?tid- =edmunds.a.landing.selling..3.*

Baggs - Congrats on the new Mazda.

arizonajoe · March 2004

Yeah, I think Jaguar gets 240 HP out of the same Duratec V6 in the S-Type 3.0 and the X-Type 3.0 - but in those implementations it probably requires premium. I think the Mazda 6 runs on regular, right?

baggs32 · March 2004

" I think the Mazda 6 runs on regular, right?"

Yep, plain old 87. Also, the Jags do in fact require premium.

One nice thing about having two similar engines in my garage is knowing how easy the oil changes will be. Both the Escape and the Mazda6 use the same weight oil and same oil filter.

Here's the kicker though. Ford recommends changing the oil and filter in the Escape every 3 months or 3000 miles. Mazda recommends it be done every 6 months or 7500 miles in the 6. Something tells me more than just the heads are different on the Mazda version.

"Baggs - Congrats on the new Mazda."

Thanks! I know you advised me to "stay the course" with the Mustang a while back, but it's just too hard with the little guy. The 6 will definitely keep me happy for the time being. I don't know why they took so long to catch on. It is actually quite a bargain when weighing what you get for what you pay.

icvci · March 2004

Congrats Baggs. Welcome to the Mazda family. Pretty big bang for the buck eh?

"The best news about the 6? It's a screaming bargin." Automobile Mag 2/04

baggs32 · March 2004

"Pretty big bang for the buck eh?"

It sure is! Even my wife was opening it up on the way home last night. A car has to be pretty special for her to like it that much because she adored that Civic as it was her very first car.

The Mazda3 was our next choice, but with no deals right now it would have been about the same price as the 6s. The 3s and 6i are pretty close in comparison, but the 6s is way ahead of both of them. Couldn't beat the price.

Now the 6s hatchback, which they did have, seemed perfect. But again, no deals on that one either.

icvci · March 2004

You could get the 6 5-Door on S-plan though. If we could just get people to drive a Mazda, I can't imagine them buying much else (when money is a consideration).

stever · March 2004

When I was shopping in '98, I was looking at new and used cars. I met a woman in the nearby grocery lot to look at her van. Wound up having to jump start her van when I tried to take it on a test drive :-)

My Tercel sold at a moving sale when we were heading south for good. Didn't even have a sign on it; go figure.

I wonder if the consignment lots are any good? There's a horror story or two over in Advice on selling your car.

Congrats on the 6, Baggs!

Steve, Host

baggs32 · March 2004

Thanks Steve. I enjoy it more and more with every passing mile.

Did the woman with the van at least offer to throw in a set of jumper cables?

icvci,
I could have used the S-Plan on the 5-door Mazda6 but other rebates, namely a $2500 lease rebate, were available on the sedan only. The trunk in the sedan is huge so I'm not complaining much, but I would have liked the hatch a little more. Oh well.

You're right, people will buy more Mazda's if they would just go drive them! Saturday was a sunny day with temps in the high sixties and the Mazda lot we visited after selling the Civic was packed. So much so that we were there for an hour and a half and never had the opportunity to speak to a salesman. I have never had a problem finding a salesman to talk to before. There was a steady stream of test drivers pulling off the lot. It was quite unusual.

While I was there I took the opportunity to examine an '04 Tribute which was in the showroom (The '05's were "hidden" out back) and was reminded why we liked it better than the Escape, but didn't buy it.

The interior materials in the Tribute are softer to the touch and a little classier than those in the Escape. That's what we liked about it. However, we did not buy it because of Mazda's option packaging and pricing. The Tribute tends to be slightly more expensive than the Escape because you have to, or at least used to have to, buy something like leather and a moonroof just to get a CD changer.

It's a minor gripe, but it was enough to turn us away at the time.

icvci · March 2004

That is a gripe with just about everyone, it was with me. I really wanted the sunroof but, I would never pay more for the stereo in the P5, it's nothing to write home about. The sunroof and the 6 disc are packaged together though. Personally, I think they should do more dealer installing, like Honda does with wheels, stereos, cargo covers, ground effects, etc.

I visited the Mazda Mania chat last night. Pretty fun, you should check it out sometime.

icvci · March 2004

Here are some stats from the JD Power spring 2004 car guide. Following are new vehicle inventories measured in how many days of supply are on dealer lots at the time of publication.

CR-V - 24
Escape - 79
Tribute - 139

Looks like your situation, Scape, is more the exception than the rule.

icvci · April 2004

Pretty neat program.

http://www.mlive.com/prnewswire/prnauto.ssf?/cgi-bin/stories.pl?A- CCT=mlive2.story&STORY=/www/story/04-01-2004/0002139222&E- DATE=

icvci · April 2004

Again, I'll say that I believe the sales advantage the big3 hold on much of the competition is due to employee sales and supplier/employee incentives. Check out GMs latest policy.

- Workers who don't drive a General Motors vehicle will be restricted from parking near the St. Catharines components plant in Ontario. Workers driving cars made by other automakers must park at a smaller lot south of the plant.

It's the first move of its kind for a G-M plant in Canada.

Salaried employees instituted the plan in mid-March.

Workers who don't drive G-M products are upset. They feel they're being punished or coerced into buying G-M products.

A spokeswoman says similar policies exist at G-M facilities in the U-S.

Buy a vehicle from us or else. And even if this stuff does happen at Honda and Toyota, their work force and supplier base is MUCH smaller.

scape2 · April 2004

Lucky you put your last sentence in your post #4845. I know someone who works at a Toyota parts distribution center, large one at that. He was asked not to park his Chevy Truck in the front of the building... This goes on at every plant. So its not just the Big 3 that do have these sort of policies. Nike, don't even walk into work wearing reebok or your in really big trouble....

Days of inventory.. Lets see, Ford can produce how many more vehicles than Honda? Not to even include the Mazda output? And how many dealeships does Ford have compared to Honda? Not to even include Mazda?
Who is the best seller between the CRV and the Escape/Tribute?
Equinox from Chevy will take another big bite out of CRV/Escape sales. In April Motor Trend there is a nice picture and write-up about it.
One question. What will Honda have when its reputation of reliability is gone because people will find it can get the same reliabitliy from Mazda, Ford, Chevy even Hyundia...?

icvci · April 2004

... This goes on at every plant.

Actually, it doesn't. And I doubt that parts distributor is half the size of the GM plant in Ontario.

Days of inventory.. Lets see, Ford can produce how many more vehicles than Honda? Not to even include the Mazda output? And how many dealeships does Ford have compared to Honda? Not to even include Mazda?

You are the guy saying there are just as many CR-Vs sitting around as Escape/Tribs. Thanks for shooting holes in your own statements.

What will Honda have when its reputation of reliability is gone because people will find it can get the same reliabitliy from Mazda, Ford, Chevy even Hyundia...?

Frankly, I don't care. I don't buy Honda vehicles because I love the company. (Although I do love the company.) I buy them because they are, in general, the safest, cleanest most reliable vehicles on the road. The little things like planting trees are just icing on the cake.

Besides, why would I worry about that scenerio now? As it currently isn't the case. (Except for Mazda cars.)

varmint · April 2004

"One question. What will Honda have when its reputation of reliability is gone because people will find it can get the same reliabitliy from Mazda, Ford, Chevy even Hyundia...?"

I'll ponder that one when it happens.

baggs32 · April 2004

Here we go again...

So how is it that the CR-V used to be the best seller? Did Ford suddenly hire tens of thousands of employees just so they could buy Escapes and make it the sales leader?

Rebates you say? They had them back then too.

baggs32 · April 2004

Pricing has not been released for the Hybrid yet and the $4000 increase over a regular Escape was just a figure CBS threw out there to use as an example. Wait for Ford to say how much it costs, not CBS.

The woman in the passenger seat was the chief engineer on the Escape hybrid team. That's why she was so proud of it.

"Otherwise looked like regular Ford Escort."

Man, what kind of Escorts did Ford sell where you live?!!!

icvci · April 2004

They didn't have them the first year. Coincidentally, it wasn't the best seller either.

baggs32 · April 2004

Not many are in their first year. It also had the early problems which I'm sure kept people away.

2001 is not a good year to compare to.

Ford currently has 17 vehicles to choose from. They also have 44,000 salaried employees in the U.S.. Let's bump that number up to 200,000 to include all (I'm guessing) of the people eligible for the partner programs (X-Plan).

If every single one of those 150,000 employees/discount holders bought a Ford vehicle it would work out to about 11,000 in sales for each model.

Don't forget that those same people are eligible for the same discount on all of Ford's brands so you have to divide that 200,000 out by even more models.

Unless all of them are buying Escapes I just don't see how it matters. The numbers just aren't there.

Do you know how many people are actually eligible for the discount? I really don't have a clue.

icvci · April 2004

You and I both bought Mazda products due to S-plan pricing. The fact that these great vehicles were available to us at such a good price, gave them an edge. The original argument was that the playing field wasn't level so sales couldn't be the determining factor in which vehicle was best.

It doesn't matter. I'm just being a PITA for the sake of being a PITA. Ignoring me is the best thing to do right now as it seems to be a moot point.

Enjoy your new ride this weekend.

baggs32 · April 2004

Actually I probably would have bought a Mazda even without the S-Plan. I'm pretty loyal to Ford and like to keep it in the family.

OTOH I will look at an "outside" brand like Honda, as we did when shopping for the Escape with X-Plan PIN in hand, if they offer comparable models. The discount is good but not good enough to make me settle for something I don't want.

I didn't look elsewhere when shopping for the 6 because there just ain't nothin' out there that compares to it in its class if you ask me. My other choices were the Mazda3 or the 5-door Focus SVT.

scape2 · April 2004

You make it sound like there is a shortage of CRV's. I can e-mail you ads from my region showing the CRV inventory is just fine.
Mazda, what an up an coming company. The 6 is doing well and the 3 I predict is going to sell for top dollar due to the lack of supply. Mazda already had a good say in the development of the Escape/Trib platform. Mazda is on its way to being a player in the U.S. car market. I saw a loaded Mazda 3 the other day in black. I thought it was some sort of new Acura at first.. Wow, it was a nice looking vehicle.
Honda CRV will never regain the seat of being the best seller in this class. This due to all the new introductions like the VUE, Liberty and now the Equinox. Year by year the pillar that Honda has stood on for quality/reliabitliy is crumbling. It was only a matter of time in a market driven economy for this to happen. More people are finding out the GM/Ford and Dodge, along with the Korean brands give you peace of mind, just as Honda did in the 80's for less $$$

bshel · April 2004

Definitely a shortage. At one of the dealerships, I looked at the current/incoming log with the dealer mgr. One dealership had 19 CR-V's come in the day previous. 17 were pre-sold before they arrived. By the time I came back 4 days later, those two remaining had been sold, another delivery had come in (w/my color choice and MT) and there was 1 remaining on the lot and they were holding onto the LX demo/AT they had.

The 3 is quite small - check out the backseat - not really a contender here in many areas on this forum for comparison to the V and Escape.

Do you think the ads are genuine? Even the online inventory that can be accessed for various dealers is a smoke screen. The online inventory can list the vin/model of CR-Vs that are in, but they are also including those that are ordered and in the process of being readied for delivery to customer.

smsuvundecided · April 2004

Now you sound like a PR person for every vehicle maker other then those made in Japan.

"quality/reliability crumbing"? <-- you are trying to start something by making that accusation. Because it is not true. You just don't want to believe it. Especially when you including Dodge on your list.

arizonajoe · April 2004

Over the last two months, I've twice seen Nissan X-Trails on the freeway here in Phoenix. They are not yet on sale in the USA - the ones I spotted were Mexican cars with Mexican plates.

What struck me is that they look very similar to the original CR-V - too derivative.

stever · April 2004

I was thinking more Cherokee but I drove a borrowed CR-V for an hour about a year ago thinking it was a Grand Cherokee.

steve_ "Nissan X-Trail (we want it!)" Dec 4, 2003 2:04pm

Steve, Host

varmint · April 2004

The thing that makes the XTrail look like a CR-V is the taillights. While I was in the BVI last year, I saw at least 3 different vehicles with the same general design. It's actually quite common.

icvci · April 2004

http://www.mlive.com/prnewswire/prnauto.ssf?/cgi-bin/stories.pl?A- - CCT=mlive2.story&STORY=/www/story/04-05-2004/0002140920&E- - DATE=

I find it funny how much of the technology is spoken of as if it is new and a Ford first. (No, they don't actually say it, but it is subtly implied.)

icvci · April 2004

A little story on resale values from

http://www.mlive.com/weblogs/autonews/

Thursday, March 25, 2004

Down and out on your car loan?
Some interesting info in this news release from J.D. Power and Associates. Car and truck owners are becoming increasingly shocked to find out at trade-in time that they owe more on their vehicles than they're worth. One issue not addressed in this news release is the role that high mileage plays in the "upside-down" scenerio. Many folks run up 25,000 miles a year on their buggy. If they finance and keep a vehicle for five years, they can easily have 100,000 miles on the odometer. Depending on how well the vehicle holds its value, it could be worth virtually nothing when it's finally paid off.

Number of "Upside-Down" Vehicle Buyers is Increasing Substantially

WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.-The number of new-vehicle buyers who owe more on their trade than it is worth-the classic "upside-down" scenario-has increased substantially over the past three years, according to retail transaction data from the Power Information Network (PIN), LLC, an affiliate of J.D. Power and Associates.

While only 25 percent of trades were an upside-down situation in 2001, today, 38 percent of trades are in this category, according to PIN.

This trend toward more upside-down trades is one of the consequences of the intense competition in the U.S. new-vehicle market. To maintain share, manufacturers are keeping monthly payments of new or refreshed models the same by lengthening the terms of finance loans.

The average length of a new-vehicle loan is now 58 months-an increase of almost 10 percent from three years ago when loans averaged 53 months. Thus, retail consumers today who opt for the longer-length loans take significantly longer to build equity in their vehicle.

"If this trend continues, eventually the factory will have to provide a heck of a lot of assistance, which is not good news for the automakers," said Tom Libby, director of industry analysis at PIN. "Right now automakers are legitimately trying to sustain demand and market share through aggressive manipulation of finance instruments, but the long-term ramifications of these efforts are questionable."

scape2 · April 2004

every vehicle other than those made in Japan. The same could be said in reverse for others that visit this room.. The fact is the quality/reliability gap is closing and is very narrow in some instances. I am one of those who have witnessed this first hand. FACT: I purchaced a 1996 Ford Ranger. Was told over and over agian this truck was garbage, unreliable blah, blah, blah. Ran fine, never a problem up to about 100,000 miles. Have also owned a few Escorts, no problems. I now own an 01 Escape with about 40,000 trouble free miles. I was also told this would break down, be unreliable.. Vist MSN reliablity reports, you may be surprised at what you find. The Ford Taurus is actually a VERY reliable car, contrary to popular belief.
This is evolution of the car market. To believe Ford/GM and Dodge would just sit idle and not improve to meet customer demands is just plain ignorant.

icvci · April 2004

The Ranger and the Escort both have MAZDA 4 bangers in them.

Did someone say the Taurus was unreliable? It has had a TON of recalls. It lacks any of the refinements found in models it's supposed to compete against. And it is about as fun to drive as a UPS truck. But, I can't recall us saying it was "unreliable".

explorerx4 · April 2004

please list the 'tons of recalls' for those of us who don't know what they are for.

icvci · April 2004

But not that many compared to other Ford cars and trucks.

'86-95 Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, and Lincoln Continental

Corrosion from road salt could make subframes drop, suddenly making the car very hard to steer.

Models: 2.7 million cars made 10/85-6/95, including '86-95 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable and '88-94 Lincoln Continental. Recall affects vehicles sold or currently registered in Conn., Del., D.C., Ill., Ind., Iowa, Kan., Ky., Maine, Md., Mass., Mich., Minn., Mo., Neb., N.H., N.J., N.Y., Ohio, Pa., R.I., Vt., Va., W.Va., and Wis.

'93 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable

Front coil springs could corrode, break, and puncture tire.

Models: 281,000 cars made 8/92-7/93, registered in Conn., Del., Ill., Ind., Iowa, Ky., Maine, Md., Mass., Mich., Minn., Mo., N.H., N.J., N.Y., Ohio, Pa., R.I., Vt., W.Va., and Wis.

'95 Ford Mustang and Taurus, and Mercury Sable

Problem: Engine cooling fan could overheat, melt, and cause fire under hood.

Models: 695,260 Taurus and Sable cars with 3.0- and 3.8-liter engine and Mustangs with 3.8- and 5.0-liter engine made 4/94 to 8/95.

'97 Ford Taurus and Windstar and Mercury Sable

Problem: Transmission fluid could leak onto hot catalytic coverter, causing fire hazard.

Models: 100,000 vehicles made 11/96-3/97.

'00 Ford Taurus and Excursion, and Mercury Sable

Headlamp switch knob could break and come off, making it difficult for driver to turn on lights.

Products: 74,000 vehicles made 10/99 to 12/99.

'00-02 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable with adjustable brake and accelerator pedals

Problem: Inadequate spacing between the brake pedal and accelerator pedal could cause driver to step on the wrong pedal or both pedals at once, increasing the risk of an accident.

Models: 424,164 cars made 5/3/99 to 9/14/01. Beginning in model year 2000 for the Taurus and Sable, Ford made available adjustable brake and accelerator pedals that allow the driver to move the pedals closer or farther away.

scape2 · April 2004

Where did you get these from?
Take a look at MSN reliability data it says just the opposite. Plus the word "could" is mentioned..
00-02 Taurus pedals?? step on wrong one?? what the?? Headlamp switch knob? road salt could?? please icvi.. These are all COULD.... Ford is covering themselves...

varmint · April 2004

Scape, every recall is a "could" scenario.

icvci · April 2004

The Honda Bible of course! The Old Testament of new Ford problems. LOL

Consumer Reports.

explorerx4 · April 2004

that ford could sell that poc taurus for like more than 15 years!

do you know anyone who actually had the subframe drop, spring explode, etc...?
my sister in law had the tranny in her crv fail at 40k. it lived in fla for 4 years. you can't get any easier driving than that.

icvci · April 2004

Is that anyone would buy the current Taurus that is essentially the same car that's been on the road since 96. Especially with the choices that are currently available in that segment.

Talk about lemmings.

explorerx4 · April 2004

toyota has had to drop the price of a camry (best seller) down to get near a taurus. maybe those t(au)rex (dinasours

) aren't as bad as some people think they are.

explorerx4 · April 2004

the only reason i am postng what comments i do make, is that reliability and resale are not the be all - end all of owning a vehicle.
for example, i cannot get comfortable in toyota seats; so why, if i have another choice, would i want to be uncomfortable every single time i drive?

icvci · April 2004

Figured Ford couldn't cover it up forever... eh Scape. Nice try though.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/business-- 2/108187885243930.xml

CR-V vs Escape

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