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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    But Honda's truck sales are up. And Ford's truck sales are down. You cannot claim that Honda's sales are up simply because Honda added a new model. Not when Ford has done the same thing.

    I see where you're coming from now and I didn't realize Ford actually classifies the Freestyle as a light truck. I just checked it and was a bit surprised by that finding.

    However, you know as well as I that Ford adding a new model is not the same as Honda adding one for several reasons. I'll only mention two since this is a bit off topic.

    All things considered the Freestyle actually isn't an all-new model. It's basically the wagon version of the Five Hundred and the Taurus had a wagon version before it. So it's not like the FS is adding sales that were never there before as the Ridgeline is. Next consider one of the big losers last month for Ford's light truck division, the Freestar minivan. Sales were down about 2700 units from the previous month (April) which was a 25+% decrease. I don't think Honda has a light truck that can decrease so little yet lose so much ground in one month do they? I would think having something like that in their lineup of clones with different sheet metal and different names (To be fair Ford is beginning to go down that path too) would be devastating to their bottom line. With no other models based off of it's platform to keep things moving at the plant Honda would have their hands full. Much like Ford and GM do now.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    Every vehicle has quality controls of one kind or another. I don't see why this is such a revelation for you. No car is perfect. Regardless, the biggest gripes about CR-V seem to be the engine fire after the first oil change and PTTR. Neither is a major concern for me. There is a reason the CR-V gets the "Lowest True Cost to Own" award from Edmunds, and you don't get that award by having quality problems.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    Freestyle: It has to be classified as a light truck, because the MPG would drag down the CAFE for cars otherwise.

    I was never saying that Honda was selling more CR-Vs than Escapes. It has always sold less vehicles (though I bet if you included world wide sales the situation might be reversed, pitting all version of the CR-V against all variants of the Escape platform). But the important thing is the sales percentages, which I didn't bring up anyway; someone else listed misleading percentages, and I was attempting to set the record straight.

    And yes, someone is eating FMC's lunch in truck sales. Every one of their trucks is vastly down for the year; excursion is over 30%. Or quite possibly a number of somebodies, dividing the market against FMC and GM.

    The Mecury version of the Escape is new, isn't it? So the sales figures would be skewed from last year? Or was it introduced in 2003?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    The Mecury version of the Escape is new, isn't it? So the sales figures would be skewed from last year? Or was it introduced in 2003?

    Not when you are looking at Ford light trucks because they don't lump all of the other brands together. Below are Mercury's figures for the end of May. You'll see what a model that didn't exist the previous year can do for the bottom line.

    Model May05 May04 %chg YE0505 YE0504 %chg
    Mariner 2,549 0 NA 13,871 0 NA
    Mountaineer 2,838 3,770 -24.7 14,459 18,814 -23.1
    Monterey 328 1,168 -71.9 3,548 6,024 -41.1
    Total Mercury Trucks
    5,715 4,938 15.7 31,878 24,838 28.3

    If you can explain to me how Mercury light truck sales were up by 15.7% for the month and 28.3% YTD for a reason other than the new Mariner I'd sure like to hear it.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "If you can explain to me how Mercury light truck sales were up by 15.7% for the month and 28.3% YTD for a reason other than the new Mariner I'd sure like to hear it."

    Uhhh, I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying that the Mariner sales skewed the numbers upwards, because there were very few sales a year ago, which agrees with your post...

    I was replying to some people who were claiming that Ford truck sales weren't that bad over all (or the equivelant idea).

    YEOW! -71% down on the Mercury large SUV? Woah...
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    In the past year and a half, Ford has recalled the Escape FOUR times:

    http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/ford_escape_recall.html

    http://4wheeldrive.about.com/b/a/131892.htm

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/ford_escape.html

    http://maintenance.autoblog.com/entry/1234000020025193/

    Once because the engine stalls, once because the accelerator sticks, once because the seatbelts were failing to latch, and once because the rear gate flies open. All required between 130,000 and 500,000 vehicles to come into the shop. This is JUST for the Escape, and doesn't include the FOUR recalls the Escape endured just after it was released, or the numerous Firestone tire fiascos.

    :lemon:

    So, if I get this straight, your engine stalls, so you stomp on the gas, at which point the accelerator sticks and your rear hatch flies open, and then you find out your seatbelt isn't latched. Then you're left praying your tire doesn't blow up. Talk about a wild ride! Boy, it's fun to twist things!!!

    :blush:
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    Over and over in the past year I posted REAL numbers showing how an Escape has a higher price than a comparably equipped CR-V yet someone still doesn't believe it.

    Look up the posts. The numbers haven't changed.

    Sales figures? Well I go by my local poll. Seven CR-Vs in the subdivision. No Escapes. At work there are two Escapes but at least three times as many CR-Vs. I do live in an area where imports tend to do well but still it surprises me a bit. One co-worker traded in her Escape for a Focus. She said the gas mileage was killing her. At least she stayed in the Ford family so the Escape must not have been too bad.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I hear ya now Steve. ;)

    YEOW! -71% down on the Mercury large SUV? Woah..

    I think you were looking at the Monterey minivan which doesn't sell well to begin with. Not that the Mountaineer is doing much better. FWIW if I were to choose between a Mountaineer and an Explorer I'd go with the former due to it's longer list of standard amenities and slightly nicer interior.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "I think you were looking at the Monterey minivan which doesn't sell well to begin with. "

    Thanks, I don't keep up with the Mercury line that much. However, I should have remembered it is the Navigator as the large SUV...
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    If cars could have personality, I would say CRV was a hypocrite.

    While having 14 recalls since 1997, I think it is little absurd to talk about Escape's recall history, huh.. :blush:
    http://auto-recalls.justia.com/HONDA-CR-V.html

    :surprise: , 3 less recalls huh, this really makes CRV the most realiable small SUV... :)

    Oh! BTW, at least Ford is correcting things, not like suppressing and dismissing valid defects and problems like CRV engine fires and pulling, V6 transmission failures on Odyssey and Accord…
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    one thing most people don't realize is that recalls may apply to a large number of vehicles, but may only affect a few. also, if you don't sell a lot, there won't be a 'big' recall.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "If cars could have personality, I would say CRV was a hypocrite.

    While having 14 recalls since 1997, I think it is little absurd to talk about Escape's recall history, huh.."

    well, I think that it is amazing that a car can talk at all. I'm going to have to go back and re-read my CR-V owner's manual, and hope this isn't a 2005 model year addition. ;) ;)
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    You forgot to mention that the CR-V has been in production almost twice as long, yet still has three less recalls. Oops!!!

    ;)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    If cars could have personality, I would say CRV was a hypocrite.

    While having 14 recalls since 1997, I think it is little absurd to talk about Escape's recall history, huh..
    http://auto-recalls.justia.com/HONDA-CR-V.html

    , 3 less recalls huh, this really makes CRV the most realiable small SUV...

    Oh! BTW, at least Ford is correcting things, not like suppressing and dismissing valid defects and problems like CRV engine fires and pulling, V6 transmission failures on Odyssey and Accord…


    Yet, you failed to mention that out of 14 recalls
    4 are for the same part - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
    2 for ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:INTERIOR/UNDER DASH
    2 for POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    3 for AIR BAGS:FRONTAL
    Since Honda uses same parts over multiple year, recalling one part in a 1998 model will result in recall of the same part in subsequent model year. So for 14 recalls 11 are the same part, just in different model years. Leaving only 3 other recalls that are model year specific.

    Look slike Escape has 17 recalls and only 3 are repeated for the same part.
    http://auto-recalls.justia.com/FORD-ESCAPE.html

    Since you brough the Oddysey and Accord into the equation, check out the total recalls for each maker.

    Honda (383)
    Ford (3087)

    Hmmm, something to think about. I think I know who to stick with.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    A reporter is interested in speaking with people who have had their vehicle recalled in the first part of this year. If your vehicle has been the subject of a recall and you would like to speak with this reporter, please send your name and daytime phone number to Pam Krebs, Edmunds.com PR, at pkrebs@edmunds.com by Tuesday, July 5. Thank you.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Recalls don't make or break a car's reputation for reliability. It's the many problems which do not result in a recall that get owners miffed.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "Oh! BTW, at least Ford is correcting things, not like suppressing and dismissing valid defects and problems like CRV engine fires and pulling"

    Honda didn't dismiss anything. The solution to the engine fire was more careful mechanics when doing oil changes. As far as I can see, the pull to the right issue has been solved by some adjustments to the front end. I think that some dealers aren't willing to work with their customers on the latter issue.

    In my experience, those who have no argument resort to calling names... just food for thought.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    those who have no argument resort to calling names

    I think we've pushed anthropomorphizing to the limit here! :)

    tidester, host
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    Over all, don't quite get what you are trying to say...
    Bringing the recall history of Escape and correlating Escape to lemon is the first thing
    After getting hit by the same gun, carrying recall discussion to # of particular parts in recalls is the second thing...
    Bringing Firestone quality problems to CRV-Escape forum is the third thing...

    If quality and reliability directly related to # of recalls that particular vehicle has, as you pointed, then may be you should have bought something else (may be Kia Sorento?? cause this make/model doesn't have any recalls yet).

    PS:
    Honda (383) Ford (3087)?????
    Have you looked at how many models existed under Ford's page and compared it with how many models Honda has?
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    Actually, I thought my post abou my CR-V talking to me was the limit...
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    LoL! Good point - but you know that talking to plants is said to help them thrive so one might expect them occasionally to talk back and express their gratitude. The same might be true of CR-Vs. ;)

    tidester, host
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "Good point - but you know that talking to plants is said to help them thrive so one might expect them occasionally to talk back and express their gratitude. The same might be true of CR-Vs."

    Oh, I have no problem talking to my CR-V; it is when it begins talking back that I get worried.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Over all, don't quite get what you are trying to say...

    Not rocket science, Ignition switch defect in a 1998 model will be the same defect in the consequive years, until the defect was found and eliminated. Thus, 4 are for the same part - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH, while in reality it is the same part that had a defect. It was reported 4 times because it affected 4 different model years that used the same component. 4 recalls are for the same part = 1 failed part, and so on...
    2 for ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:INTERIOR/UNDER DASH
    2 for POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    3 for AIR BAGS:FRONTAL

    14 recalls - 11 for the same part = 3 other components + first 4 components = 7 components that had defect.

    Hopefully this cleared up the confusion.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Lifted from "the other forum"
    These cars, all 2002 models, have held up the best after three years, according to a survey.

    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - These 2002 model-year vehicles ranked first in their categories in the most recent J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study.

    Compact car: 2002 Chevrolet Prizm

    Entry midsize car: 2002 Chevrolet Malibu

    Premium midsized car: 2002 Buick Century

    Full-size car: 2002 Buick LeSabre

    Entry luxury car: 2002 Ford Thunderbird

    Mid luxury car: 2002 Lincoln Town Car

    Premium luxury car: 2002 Lexus LS 430

    Sporty car: 2002 Mazda Miata

    Premium sports car: 2002 Porsche 911

    Midsized pick-up: 2002 Chevrolet S-10

    Light-duty full-sized pick-up: 2002 Cadillac Escalade EXT

    Entry SUV: 2002 Honda CR-V

    Midsized SUV: 2002 Toyota 4Runner

    Full-sized SUV: 2002 GMC Yukon/Yukon XL

    Entry luxury SUV: 2002 Lexus RX 300

    Premium luxury SUV: 2002 Lexus LX 470

    Midsized van: 2002 Ford Windstar

    Full-sized van: 2002 Ford E-series

    No Escape :-)

    These are not initial quality ratings, but a 3 year reliability ratings. Even with the "numerous" engine fires and transmisison failures CR-V is the top dog, compare to the "problem free" Escape/Tribute/Mariner....
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    "These are not initial quality ratings, but a 3 year reliability ratings. Even with the "numerous" engine fires and transmisison failures CR-V is the top dog, compare to the "problem free" Escape/Tribute/Mariner...."

    First of all, engine fire and transmission issues are not applicable to this study.
    This list covers only 50635 original 2002 year make/model owners. You are not trying to tell me engine fire and transmission issues existed on 02 CRVs, are you? So, saying “CRV is top dog” based on this study doesn’t have any face value.

    I wouldn't expect to see Escape in that list. Escape was born in 2001 and Model year 2002 is the SECOND and the worst year of Escape which I find normal for new model to have problems.
    Escape improved and took the control of small SUV market since 2003.
    In order for you to say CRV is top dog BASED ON JD Power's Vehicle Dependability Index Study (VDI), you need to wait 2006-07-08's studies hence they will cover 2003-2004-2005 year models.

    I looked at JD's site to see how CRV was doing in second year of production, but there was no VDI. JD started this on 2002 which covers 1999 production year. This is what I found:

    2002 VDI (Covers 1999)
    Civic, Accord, Prelude, CRV, Odyssey
    2003 VDI (Covers 2000)
    Civic, CRV
    2004 VDI (Covers 2001)
    Insight, Prelude, CRv, Odyssey
    2005 VDI (Covers 2002)
    S2000, CRv

    After all, 2005 list doesn't have any other models from Honda. If you are counting on 2005 VDI this much to prove your point that Escape is not better than CRV, then you are also admitting that Honda is loosing too much in terms of dependability and VDI of following years may not show CRV at all.

    Just to cross examination this is what Ford is doing in terms of Vehicle Dependability

    2002 VDI (Covers 1999)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Tracer, Lincoln Continental, Mustang, F-150,
    F-250, Expedition, Villager, E-Series Club Wagon

    2003 VDI (Covers 2000)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, F-Series, Expedition, Econoline, Villager, Lincoln Town Car

    2004 VDI (Covers 2001)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Ranger, F-150, 250, 350, Mountaineer

    2005 VDI (Covers 2002)
    Crown Vic, grand Marquis, Thunderbird, Lincoln LS, Lincoln Town Car, F-150, F-250,F-350, Explorer, Expedition, Windstar, Villager, E-series

    PS: I am aware that Ford has 21 models vs 9 models from Honda, but all the bragging I have been hearing about dependability, satisfaction etc from Honda crowd here, I excpected to see more models of Honda in JD list. :cry:
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "Just to cross examination this is what Ford is doing in terms of Vehicle Dependability

    2002 VDI (Covers 1999)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Tracer, Lincoln Continental, Mustang, F-150,
    F-250, Expedition, Villager, E-Series Club Wagon

    2003 VDI (Covers 2000)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, F-Series, Expedition, Econoline, Villager, Lincoln Town Car

    2004 VDI (Covers 2001)
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Ranger, F-150, 250, 350, Mountaineer

    2005 VDI (Covers 2002)
    Crown Vic, grand Marquis, Thunderbird, Lincoln LS, Lincoln Town Car, F-150, F-250,F-350, Explorer, Expedition, Windstar, Villager, E-series"

    Uh, you do realize that the Escape is not on this list anywhere? So I'm afraid I'm again missing your point vis-a-vis CR-V vs. Escape .
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    I guess you are not reading carefully....

    Technically, Escape could be in 2004 or 2005 VDI (which corresponds 2001 and 2002)...
    Then I wrote

    "I wouldn't expect to see Escape in that list. Escape was born in 2001 and Model year 2002 is the SECOND and the worst year of Escape which I find normal for new model to have problems."

    Why are you still looking for Escape in the list?????????

    If you wonder the relevancy of those two lists to the subject then here is my explanation:
    I posted them to support my point that Ford is contributing more and more vehicles into that list while your beloved Honda is loosing vehicles which contradicts what you (Honda crowd) are bragging about.
    Why, I guess, poeple don't find Honda any more reliable than other cars...

    If you still don't get it here is another point of view:
    Do you see Accord there since 2002? Is last generation Accord a bad car? ;)

    PS: Please pay attention that I am not discussing about Accord or Civic or any other models. I am pointing these models to Honda Crowd to show your nonsense in your argument.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    "I guess you are not reading carefully..."

    No, I read your post carefully. It was your presentation of Ford's supposed quality based on other models than the Escape that I was referring to. Regardless of the quality of model years 2001-2002, one cannot make a judgement on "CR-V vs. Escape" based on vehicles other than, well, uh, CR-V vs. Escape. I could care less if the Accord is on any such list; I don't own one. I own a CR-V, so your "P.S." didn't make sense to me either.

    That was my point, perhaps I should have stated it simpler...
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    I must admit, I was surprised by the list. Kudos to GM for making it to the top. I would expect any vehicle in the early years of a new design to have more problems than one in the last year of it's design. Which is why I was surprised to see the CRV at the top in it's segment. Wasn't 2002 the first year of the new design?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    if i read the results correctly, the crv gets as good a rating as a malibu. big excitement there. ;)
    actually i'm glad to see the mailbu get a good rating since i convinced my mother to break her 40 year streak of buying chrysler products.
    there is more to owning a vehicle than reliability. if i hate driving it every minute, i am not thinking about the other attributes.
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