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Comments
Damerow Ford, 1 example 2005 Escape XLS 4WD VIN#D51577, $18,325.
Thomason Honda 2WD LX Element $17,499
Courtesy Ford 2005 Escape Limited 4x4 $22,379.76 #E48163 "11 more to choose from"
Landmark Ford Limited Escape 4x4 $24,535, XLT 4x4 sport $21,725, another at 22,281, XLT 4x4 V6 $20, 929.. They have a pretty sizeable list here in the paper with mulitple listings to choose from.
2005 CRV LX 2WD for $19,188! This is at Ron Tonkin Honda 2 to choose from Want VIN's? e-mail me an let me know or phone #'s. I may have crossed the line already giving Dealership names.. Choice is nice and Ford offers more choices, Trim levels and colors than Honda does also...
It may be region specific, but in majority of places Hondas are negotiable. Most people, skilled in negotiations get their Hondas at or bellow invoice. Check prices paid board.
The only thing CR-V does not have is V6, leather is available in the SE trim.
Here is a list of things Escape does not have:
Vehicle stability control
Drive by wire
Steering wheel mounted radio controls
Manual transmission with 4WD/AWD
Factory XM radio integration option (need to buy receiver, but radio is XM ready)
Cassette player with 6 CD in dash changer.
Fuel economy of a 4 cyl engine with power of a V6 for most driving conditions (not towing)
Glad you are happy with Escape. We have both, 2005 CR-V Ex and 2005 Escape XLT. I am happy with the CR-V, she is happy with the Escape.
As far as loading up a compact SUV with 5 people and their gear and going up a 11% grade, come on how often are most people ever going to do this? Almost never I would think. And if they do they probably should have bought mid-size or large SUV.
I agree Honda does offer a V6 in Accord because some people wanted more power. Although I believe the 4 cylinder makes up around 75% of Accord sales, so it must offer all the power many people need. Even the ones going up 11% grades. Just because Ford can't seem seem to build a good 4 cylinder engine, doesn't make all SUV's with one useless.
I have done this exact thing, and the CR-V performed quite well. 5 people in the car plus luggage to the roof, on a trip to Yosemite.
My highway mileage is 27 @ 80 MPH, about 22 in town. I don't have any reason to tow. However, the US restriction of 1500 lbs is different from the (smaller 2.0L engine) restriction of the export model - it will tow 1500 KG - that's about 3000 lbs - if the trailer has brakes.
When you tout the advantages of the Escape in snow, you should note that your Escape has a more capable 4WD system than the one used in the 2005 and later models.
But in any case, I have had the CR-V in both mud and snow, and it performed very well.
When comparing the Escape to the CR-V, one should keep in mind two things:
1. The CR-V has 39 inches of rear legroom, that is three inches more than the Escape. When carrying lots of cargo, I can slide those seats forward for an additional 5 CU feet of room or so in the cargo area, and still match the Escape rear seat legroom.
2. The CR-V is actually a mid-sized SUV, while the Escape is a small SUV (according to EPA measurements). So I suppose in some respects it isn't fair to compare them at all - they are in different size classes. I've always been amazed at how Honda managed to get so much interior room on such a small chasis.
Anyway, Scape2, enjoy your Escape. It has it's points, as does the CR-V. But they are actually different enough in design philosophy that they attract different customers as buyers.
Seriously, though, I've never understood why people feel like they HAVE to drive a V6 or a V8. I think some of it goes back to the inadequacy issues covered in a college psych class. If you ever driven a CR-V, you know it has MORE than enough power fully loaded. What more do you need? I also question why someone that is so "outdoorsy" and is always towing something wouldn't buy a Jeep. It's far superior to the Escape in those conditions, and it gets just as good mileage, or better if you buy the diesel.
Furthermore, it's the Escape owners I've heard complaining about gas mileage, not the CR-V owners. I've read where many Escape owners are mired in the mid-teens. We have 2000 miles on ours so far, and even though it isn't broken in completely, we get about 23-24 all around with a 50-50 split.
Also, I noticed in the driver's manual that you are supposed to drive your CR-V with a lightfoot, especially from a standstill, until 600 miles. I also noticed it had little passing power at that time. Now that we've passed the 600 mile mark, it revs like a banshee when I pass. It hits 5000-5500 rpm before I barely have time to blink. I can count how many times I revved my little Ford ZX-2 Zetec that high on one hand. The Ford four cylinder doesn't belong in the same country with the Honda four banger. I don't know if anyone else has had the experience with the highway power prior to 600 miles, but I'd encourage people to drive one with a few miles on to get the real feel for the Honda power.
Finally, the Honda five speed automatic shouldn't be underestimated. That, along with the VTEC technology goes a LONG ways to narrow the 40 hp and 40 ft-lb "gap" between it and the Escape. Gearing and broad powerbands are everybit as a peak figure, when people generally don't drive at those numbers unless they have an engine capable of revving, like a Honda.
He probably wouldn't get the CRD Liberty because CRD is a 4 cylinder, that goes back to the inadeqacy problem :-)
It's still just the doom and gloom "I'm your worst nightmare" garbage. Gets old after a while...
tidester, host
Seriously, my friend has a 05 Escape V6 XLT which I have driven and been a passenger in and I have a 04 CRV. Living in California, we’ve made the trip to the Lake Tahoe/Reno NV area (Interstate 80) in both vehicles along with our significant others and kids. My impression of the Escape is that it’s a pleasant vehicle with a comfortable ride with smooth acceleration. Compared to the CRV, it does lack rear leg room and for a long trip I wouldn’t recommend 3 adults (same for the CRV) in the back seat unless they were very close friends. I like the bigger tires on the Escape and it is quieter on certain types of roads. The only problem so far that my friend has mentioned is some hard-starting in the morning with an uneven idle until it is warmed up. I think his best highway mpg has been around 23.
Having owned the CRV for about a year while putting 25K on the odometer, I can say that, if I wish, I can zoom up the grades on the way to Reno. The difference being the power curve is different on the CRV versus the Escape. The Escape, by virtue of its larger engine, has an easier time of it, while with the CRV; the VTEC needs to get the revs up in order to make the climb. Even around town, I’ve noticed the CRV will feel sluggish at low speeds until I put my foot more into it. But once having put my foot into it, it responds in a hurry. I average 24 mpg city/highway and about 26-28 highway so this sort of driving style is something I can live with. So far, knock on wood, no repairs have been needed or any engine fires, or PTTR issues.
I’m somewhat amazed by some of the hyperbole and rhetoric being said by both sides about these two vehicles because let’s face it; they’re more utilitarian than anything and don’t generate much excitement in my opinion. Also, the habit of making outrageous statements just meant to inflame the opposite side and keep this topic going is becoming pretty transparent. But hey, if that’s what you’re into, by all means continue, it does make for interesting reading at times.
Bingo.......
I have a Saab 4 cylinder turbo also. That car requires you to give it a lot of gas. When you do the turbo kicks in and away you go. I get a similar reaction from the CR-V. I think, if I understand it correctly, the iVtec ingine opens more valves above a certain rpm threshold, or maybe it closes some, I don't really care to understand it deeply. Whatever the case, at about 4500 rpms there is a noticable boost in power, similar to what a turbo engine delivers, but not nearly as smooth.
If you tow something, fine, get a v6. Otherwise I just don't see the point.
Just a little aside -- while my wife and I were trying to figure out which car to buy we spotted a CR-V coming towards us on a country road. I pointed it out and as it went by we noticed it was towing a good size boat. What is good size? I don't know much about boats, but I would say at least 15 feet long. The kind of thing one would pull water skiiers behind with seats in the back and in front. Whatever it was it looked awefully big behind the CR-V. We both found it kind of amusing.
like someone saying I am inadequate in someplaces, that is why I need a V6 Escape.. LOL!! this person was all wound up....
The Escape is proving to be a reliable vehicle. Ran into a person with an 01 Escape.. 102,000 miles... According to Honda owners Fords aren't supposed to make it past 1,000 miles.... :P
Be careful about making general statements about all Honda owners. Though I'll admit there are some Honda bigots out there (and Ford as well), the bulk of us don't fall in to that category.
The iVTEC is a combination of VTEC-E used for the first time on a 1993 Honda Civic VX, VTEC used on 1991 Acura NSX, and VTC, which is new.
from idle to 2500 RPM the engine operates in the VTEC-E (economy) mode, which is your typical 12 valve Honda engine from the early to mid 80's. The fuel charge is highly stratified and the air to fuel ratio is close to 17:1.
From 2500 to 4500 RPM the engine is your typical 16 valve Honda engine from the early 90's. The fuel ratio is changed to more stoiochemical 14:1.
From 4500 to 6800 RPM red line the valve's lift and duration is changed for high RPM operation. So is the air to fuel ratio.
All this time VTC monitors the speed, gear, load, throttle position and adjusts timing to give you the most torque possible for the given combination of inputs.
Now tell me if that is not a MARVEL of engineering. This is what people call a "Half VTEC" since all the valve work is done on intake only. Acura TSX has the same engine with "Full VTEC" which produces 40 more horses, but requires premium gas to do that. "Full VTEC" adjusts the exhaust valves in a similar fashion to intake valves on "Half VTEC"
VANOS, MIVEC VVTL-i are all copy cats. Ford has a ZETEC engine which has nothing to do wtih variable valve technology, but is simply a 16 valver similar to 1985 Honda engine. I am sure some young kid thought that ZETEC was just like VTEC and bought it. It is just a marketing ploy.
Someone who babies their car will get 28 MPG because they will be in the VTEC-E mode, while someone like me, who pushes their Honda engine will get 22 MPG.
ZETEC, pffft! typical domestic car sneaky garbage. Reminds me of my highschool buddy who had a Cutlass Supreme with fake heater vents on the dash.
FYI, most ZETEC motors had what was called VCT, or Variable Cam Timing, on the exhaust valves. By no means is it as advanced as Honda's current i-VTEC but I do know for a fact that my 2.0L ZETEC w/ VCT powered '98 ZX2 was loads more fun to drive than the 1.6L VTEC powered '96 Civic EX that sat next to it in the garage. And both had an MTX.
It is also notable that Ford does not use the ZETEC anymore IIRC. The Duratec23 and Duratec20 I4s developed by Mazda have taken the Z's place.
Now the Duratec30 in the Escape has nothing fancy save for the 24 valve config. However, the Duratec30 in the Mazda6 that sits next to our Escape in the garage now has VVT and is a much nicer version. Still, the lack of low-end torque in the latter makes it a bad fit for the Escape IMO. The extra HP would be nice but it does come at a price.
I ran into a person who loved their Ford Pinto and claimed it went 300,000 trouble free miles. Clearly all Ford Pintos fall into the same category because that one person claimed it as their experience.
I hope you didn't run in to the person in the Ford Pinto from the back of the Pinto. If you did.......*POOF*.........Pintos were noted for that.....LOL
Ummm, and it didn't even matter if the Pinto had just had an oil change... LOL
And this group must be the reason why we're seeing escalating hp wars:
Honda Flirts with Development of V8 (Inside Line)
Steve, Host
honda does make fine small automobile engines, but don't forget, put 2 of those duratecs together and you get an astin martin v12.
have you heard the one about honda being the biggest 'ice' polluter, due to all their lawnmower, snowblower, generator engines? :sick:
The good news is I'll be heading for the high sierras this weekend to try and cool off.
Honda small engines are one of the few that are legal for sale in California. My Honda lawnmower (2004 year model) meets the 2007 Carb emissions for small engines. Tecumseh and Briggs are slightly behind Honda. But no one can beat Honda's "half a yank" starting. Too bad Honda does not make a decent midsize snow blower. I ended up with Ariens with Tecumseh. When you compare the Honda 5 Hp and Tecumseh 5.5 Hp, Honda runs smoother, queter and is easier to start. Luckily Ariens comes with electric starter, so that I don't have to get "tennis elbow" from trying to start it.
I have an older 24" Craftsman snow blower that is as old as I am (30). I have been toying with an idea of fitting a Honda GX160 in it, to replace the pretty badly worn Tecumseh 30. I have not been able to find a Honda with PTO and main shafts. Seems like Honda only makes engines with one output shaft. It was almost as much to buy an Ariens 5520E on clearance ($350) as buying Honda GX160 ($190) and then attach the gearing for the PTO shaft.
But anyway, where is Ford's small power equipment engine? :confuse:
also have a 6.5 hp honda snow blower. it works great, although not quiet. when the snow is really heavy, i wish i had the 8 hp big orange. i bought the electric start, but have never used it. neither of those machines would fit in the escape.
also have a 6.5 hp honda snow blower. it works great, although not quiet. when the snow is really heavy, i wish i had the 8 hp big orange. i bought the electric start, but have never used it. neither of those machines would fit in the escape.
The Honda snowblower is a single stage, which is not suitable for Buffalo winters duty. Although some people make do with that. I just don't have time to make 5 passes with single stage, where one pass would do with dual stage. I have not seen dual stage Honda snow blowers. If there was one, I would have bought it.
But here is the kicker. Both the Craftsman or the Ariens snow blowers (not at the same time) fit in the 2002 Civic Si, with the handles folded. I only transported Ariens in the CR-V, so far, and it fits no problem. I guess CR-V is much bigger than Escape.
I think you mean honda "trucklet"; the RAV 4 is smaller, and I think some of the Korean and Japanese vehicles are smaller as well. Suzuki comes to mind.
Odie
Repairs
50 K miles replaced catalytic converter 1400 $. Under emission control warranty
63000 miles the check engine light came again replaced evoparative Caannister under the tank and Oxygen sensor paid 530 dollars. Other than that there are no major repairs.
CRV is progressively increasing road noise. The seats are uncomfortable
Gas Mileage highway 24-25 miles remained the same.
Adequate engine power. Not really that great in winter.
Complaints some options such as fog lights are too expensive paid 350dollars including installation.
I guess with the advent of computer controls the electronics are the one failing down. I drove my previous Toyota 4 Runner for 240 K miles. No major repairs. I can not say the same with Honda. The engines may be reliable but not the sensors and other electronic and emission control stuff.
I do not know howthe escape holds up after 65 K miles.
Odie
Thank you. That is a funny thread. I wonder why it is locked now?
Repairs
50 K miles replaced catalytic converter 1400 $. Under emission control warranty
63000 miles the check engine light came again replaced evoparative Caannister under the tank and Oxygen sensor paid 530 dollars. Other than that there are no major repairs.
CRV is progressively increasing road noise. The seats are uncomfortable
Gas Mileage highway 24-25 miles remained the same.
Adequate engine power. Not really that great in winter.
Complaints some options such as fog lights are too expensive paid 350dollars including installation.
I guess with the advent of computer controls the electronics are the one failing down. I drove my previous Toyota 4 Runner for 240 K miles. No major repairs. I can not say the same with Honda. The engines may be reliable but not the sensors and other electronic and emission control stuff.
I do not know howthe escape holds up after 65 K miles.
If you are still running OEM tires, you were probably due to replace them some 20,000 miles ago. That would explain the winter driving dissatisfaction and increasing road noise.
I think it was an off-shoot of Aztek bashing and I Don't Like SUVs Why Do You, and it wasn't exactly topical. It was also high maintenance with a post or two needing attention for profanity or the like every day.
It was fun to ruminant over those awful puns though. Or is it ruminate? :shades:
Steve, Host
Odie
I just state the 1,000 max mileage out of a Ford product because this is what some Honda militia like to spout out in these forums. Fords unreliable, garbage ect.. Yet, if you get out on the net, visit other auto sites. Reliability in vehicles is not really a topic anylonger. All brands across the board have made leaps and bounds in the reliability department. The new buzz word is "refinement". In the coming years car makers are going to have to produce vehicles people desire. Well, got to go change my oil on my Escape.. Cheers...
Did you mean "gloat" or "go"? Or is there a joke in there somewhere?
Well, it appears that the Ford Escape owners like to report their problems to the NHTSB. I was on the site yesterday looking at something else, and happened to compare the CR-V and Escape 2005 problem reports. There were a lot more reports of problems with the 2005 Escape than the 2005 CR-V. Probably 2 or 3 to one. Of course, the Escape sells more units than the CR-V, which has to be factored in there somewhere.
See the message just before Odie's!
tidester, host
Did you mean "gloat" or "go"? Or is there a joke in there somewhere?
Ha ha, somebody missed a joke, ha ha. Not picking on you, but sometimes it is even funnier when someone misses a joke. Like tidester said read the post above, with the link to the "Which spends more time off road, your SUV or your lawnmower" The consensus of that forum was the GOATS are great. You can use them for transportation, they eat the grass so you don't have to mow, you don't need to buy a new model as they are self reproducing, and when you are tired of your old goat, you just eat it. There was one minor flaw, the methane emissions were higher than CARB would allow, but he was working on a charcoal diaper, which goats did not seem to like.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050907/ap_on_bi_ge/ford_recall
Need to replace the cruise control switch.
Actually, I think because it was a Ford recall. But I still don't know why he posted it in the first place.
Man, this forum has been pretty dead for a while...