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CR-V vs Escape

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  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Of course you fail to mention the articles of course are the ones you want to believe. AND the CRV is a 5spd that has to be redlined through the gears in order to best the Escape... Hmm...
    Also, lets load the CRV down with 4 adults, 400lbs of gear, then lets see about how "gearing" works... In other words real world testing...
    As much as you want to discount the 40HP/40ft/lbs of torque advantage of the Escape and that the CRV actually weighs more than the Escape now! Yet magically is more powerful
    All I know is there is one CRV owner out there that is now convinced otherwise.


    This brings me to the post you made a few weeks back about the CR-V not being able to make it up the hill, and you passed him. He was a FORMER FORD owner who was affraid to let the engine rev past 3000 RPM, because that is when Ford engines starts losing parts. :P

    CR-V beats both the 4 cylinder and the out of its league 6 cylinder Escape in every 0-60 mph test. What is there to argue? CR-V is much more superior to its own league 4 cylinder Escape and still superior to the out of its league Escape V6. So it is double superior over the Escape. When Ford make Escape V6 with a manual (when pig fly and warms have ears) maybe we will have to test it, until then, CR-V is the leader. And you brought up the acceleration this time with your uphill battle with a CR-V. Even CR-V's little brother HR-V with it's 1.6 liter engine is quite capable off-roader as someone has posted their own videos of duking it out in the mud pits with Land Rovers and Pajeros in UK on the site dedicated to CR-V's and other Honda SUV's.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Yes, but what you fail to mention is when the CRV reaches its peak torque of 160ft/lbs at 3,600 rpms thats it! Where is the Escapes torque at 3,600rpms? about 160ft/lbs? The Escape still has 40 more to go! Same with power. You shot yourself in the foot over this one. 100rpm differnce.. 196HP vs 156? Its obvious you don't understand the meaning of torque curve/HP curve... Kind of funny how the CRV weighs more, has less HP/Torque yet is more powerful.. yeah right..

    Still beats Escape to 60, very funny indeed.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I did. Keep reading and do try to save your comments for when you finally catch up.

    Speaking of straight facts, you still haven't given me any proof that the Festiva was made by Kia either. Here's a hint, it wasn't. It was assembled in a Kia plant and made by Mazda which we all know is a Ford controlled company. You'd know that if you had scrolled down a few posts from the one you replied to.

    I'll be more careful with words when you are. Deal?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    ....2 pi?

    I thought that was something you bought to keep your head warm when you've gone bald. :shades:

    tidester, host
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Which one of you said the CRV doesn't weigh more than the Escape?? Wrong! take a look right here at Edmunds.. Escape 3,298lbs, CRV 3,494lbs..
    also, the HP max is 6,000 for the Escape and 5,900 for the CRV.. 100 difference!??
    Lets take a closer look at this debate.

    The Escape reaches its max torque at 4,850 with 196ft/lbs.
    The CRV reaches is max torque at 3,600 with 160ft/lbs.

    Torque Curve.. the question is, at what point in the Escapes torque cure, and how much torque is the Escape giving you when it reaches 3,600rpms? This is when the CRV is at maximum and can give you no more...

    By the way Honda fans.. Edmunds con for the CRV is no V6.. Hmm...Wonder why Toyota put a V6 in the RAV4? Wonder why Honda even bothers with the V6 Accord if the 2.4 is as powerful or can be made as powerful as any V6 out there??
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    did I start a blaze here!

    Nope, and we're going to continue to tone it down. Don't want to scare off any new visitors after all.

    Let's just focus on the facts please and avoid any characterizations.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Speaking of straight facts, you still haven't given me any proof that the Festiva was made by Kia either. Here's a hint, it wasn't. It was assembled in a Kia plant and made by Mazda which we all know is a Ford controlled company. You'd know that if you had scrolled down a few posts from the one you replied to.

    Ford Festiva was sold by Ford dealerships as Ford, even though it was made and designed by Kia. It was simply a rebadged Kia, Ford had no input in the Research and Development of it, nor did it have in input in the construciton of it. They took an existing Kia product and slapped Ford blue oval on it, just like Honda did with the Rodeo/Passport, which you deemed as negative. You, on the other hand, claimed that Ford NEVER slapped its badge on someone else's product.

    Another botched up job Ford did was with the Focus. EU Focus is a darling to drive, of course Ford had to americanize it, and we end up with a POS Focus here, that can not compete without heavy rebates and discounts.

    Wasn't Ford Probe a rebadged Mazda MX-6? Ford may own the conrolling package of Mazda now, it didn't in 1990.

    Even the 2.3 in the Escape and the Focus is a Mazda engine.

    Volvo S40/V40 is rebadged EU Focus.

    Jaguar X-Type is rebadged Ford Contour.

    Now you tell me if Ford is not just slapping labels on the same car and presenting it as something else.

    Truth Hurts.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Ford Festiva was sold by Ford dealerships as Ford, even though it was made and designed by Kia. It was simply a rebadged Kia, Ford had no input in the Research and Development of it, nor did it have in input in the construciton of it. They took an existing Kia product and slapped Ford blue oval on it, just like Honda did with the Rodeo/Passport, which you deemed as negative. You, on the other hand, claimed that Ford NEVER slapped its badge on someone else's product.

    You are completely wrong. Go back and read post #7136 where I posted factual evidence diproving everything you just typed. If you can provide me with a link that offers some proof that what you are saying is true then this can be continued elsewhere if you wish. Otherwise I'm through with you regarding this conversation. My head can only take so many hits to the desk. :sick:

    I also never said what Honda did with the Passport was a negative so please stop putting words into my mouth. Someone else said that what Ford does with it's re-badging is a negative, and it is to an extent, so I pointed out the Passport as another example with a slight twist. There was a little emotorcon there too. I apologize that what I said as a lighthearted joke offended you so much but you have to realize that Honda is not wearing any halos either.

    Now you tell me if Ford is not just slapping labels on the same car and presenting it as something else.

    I never said they weren't because they do that all the time. I said they weren't slapping their badge on someone elses product like Honda did. I still stand by that and post #7136 will again enlighten you as to why.

    Wasn't Ford Probe a rebadged Mazda MX-6? Ford may own the conrolling package of Mazda now, it didn't in 1990.

    Right, but Ford owned 25% of Mazda at that time, since the late seventies in fact, and had been working with them for years on many different models. They even build joint assembly plants all over the world to help things along. More on that here. Honda never owned any part of Isuzu that I could find and needed a quick fix for the growing SUV craze. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that last one.

    Even the 2.3 in the Escape and the Focus is a Mazda engine.

    And?

    The Duratec30 you find in a lot of FMC vehicles was developed by Porsche and Cosworth. Bet you didn't know that one!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    Let's get back to the CR-V and the Escape please.

    May I suggest Has Honda's run - run out?

    What about the future of Ford Inc??

    Or the GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda..:Who will sell you your next car discussion.

    Mention our name to Sneakers over there. :shades:

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Trying to Steve but I can't get anyone to do their homework! ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I know, it's rough.

    Actually, Honda and Isuzu did a little swap. Honda got to rebadge their Rodeo as a Passport, and Isuzu rebadged the Odyssey (1995-1998 Wagon Style van) as the Isuzu Oasis van.

    I don't know about owning part of a company. I think it's kind of like they are doing with GM and the Honda 3.5L going into the Vue. What is Honda getting in return? What does Honda WANT from GM? My guess is cash, and not much else.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Wow, the Oasis! I remember that thing now! I don't recall ever seeing one on the road though. I couldn't find anything about Honda or Isuzu owning any stake in each other so it must have been an "I need this and you need that so let's trade" type of deal.

    The Euro Focus/Volvo S40/Mazda3 and Escape/Tribute are the best examples of them working together as of late. They can put out really good products when they work together. Looks like adding Volvo to the mix makes exceptional products though and they should really capitalize on that going forward IMO.

    Yeah, I'd agree that Honda is in the VUE deal strictly for the cash. They (Honda) could use a full-size pickup though. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    have you seen the euro focus hardtop convertible version?
    it makes the escape moonroof seem small.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I'll be nice Steve.. ;)

    Ok, lets get back to the HP/Torque debate.. The question is where does the Escape sit in its torque range at 3600 rpms when the CRv has maxed out and has nothing more to give? Also, notice the HP max rpms? 100rpms difference here folks. These two go hand in hand.
    I don't know who said the CRV weighs more than the Escape, but your wrong. Look right here at Edmunds the CRV weighs about 150lbs more! Also notice how Edmunds con is no V6 for the CRV. Gee, wonder why Toyota put a rocket V6 in its new RAV4? Why does Honda put a V6 in the Accord if the 4cyl is so much more powerful than all these v6's out there?..
    Also, why would my engine in my Escape blow up? :confuse: Or is this another Ford inferior remark.. Getting old.. Escpecially since I have over 65,000 trouble free miles on my Escape.. Those who claim Escapes to be unreliable should really get out on the net more and visit other chat rooms/car sites ect.. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Buddy, buddy, buddy...ANY car can get 65,000 miles without costing a cent. Even lowly Kia (not-so-lowly now, are they!). Come back at double that, and lets see. I'm up to 158,000 miles on my 11 year old Honda with a total repair cost of a whopping $220, one part and 2 hours labor (fan motor). Now THAT's reliable.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    On a sidenote; have you joined Edmunds' carspace.com? You should! Its pretty neat, you get to see pictures of others' cars, neat shows they've been to, and some of their rantings.

    Everyone should look at Edmunds' www.carspace.com
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I didn't until now. Pretty nice and it's proportions remind me of the Volvo C70 which makes sense. Why, oh why can't we get this here?!!! :mad:

    I saw the C70 at the Pittsburgh auto show, roped off though, and it's a pretty sweet ride. The salesman guarding it popped the trunk for me so I could see how much room the roof took up in there. Well, it takes up the whole trunk save for a decent sized well underneath. The cool thing is that it has a button that pops the folded roof up so you can access that well rendering the roof-filled trunk somewhat useful dare I say.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    Wow, that is a pretty hot little ride. The economical personal roadster market looks to be expanding quite rapidly IMO. The VW EOS, rumored C?? (Smaller vert for Volvo), Sky/Solstice, MX5 and now this. Just in time for the Spring :D

    Damn, I want my convertible out of storage so bad right now :cry:
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Which one of you said the CRV doesn't weigh more than the Escape?? Wrong! take a look right here at Edmunds.. Escape 3,298lbs, CRV 3,494lbs.."

    That's the weight for a 4 cyl Escape. You were talking about the V6 when you made the claim earlier.

    The base weight for a V6-powered AWD Escape is 3,464 lbs.

    The base weight for a 5AT AWD CR-V is 3,428 lbs.

    Now when you add equipment to the CR-V, the weight goes up. A loaded SE model will tip the scales at 3,494.

    I can assure you, the same is true for the Escape. Add a sunroof, better stereo, air bags, seat heaters, and all that stuff to an Escape and it will gain 70lbs or so. Except that Ford never publishes that information. So everywhere you go, no matter which trim you select, the only weight information available reads 3,464 lbs. Magic beans, perhaps?

    But when you do things like look up the hard data from safety tests, you'll find that they weigh each vehicle before they crash it. For example, the 2005 XLT the IIHS used for testing weighed in at 3,580 lbs.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    Honda went back and tested ALL of their vehicles when the new SAE standards for horsepower went into effect, as did Toyota. GM only did a select few, all of which went up in HP. Ford didn't retest any vehicles that I'm aware of. I do know the Escape magically lost 7 ft.-lbs. of torque a few years back, and I'm thinking it will probably lose some more horsepower and torque if Ford would be honest like the Japanese and go retest their engines. Then we would be able to explain much easier why the CR-V, with less displacement and cylinders, can beat an Escape to 60, which seems to be an all-important measure for cute-utes.

    :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Watch what you say about those SAE tests drom. Domestics typically GAIN HP when re-tested while pretty much all Asian engines lost power.

    Couple of examples for you. I think the Fusion was originally listed as having 210 HP from it's Duratec30 but when re-tested right before it went on sale it came out as 220 HP. Don't try to tell me the Mustang GT is only making 300 HP either. Dyno testing has shown it's more like 320 but Ford hasn't re-tested it officially.

    The Escape's loss of HP a year or two ago was due to the engine being retuned for what I can't remember. It was done before the whole SAE test thing came about, early 2004 for MY05, and Ford openly discussed the slight loss of power. Plus the CD4E transmission in the Escape is a dinosaur and most likely sucks the life out of the engine which, if IIRC from the dyno numbers, leaves you with roughly 160 HP going to the wheels.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    I think the claim that Domestics gain HP is a generalization. Not by you, but by the press, which has followed this story. The reason I believe this is because oddly, EVERY domestic car tested has gained HP (or at least remained the same), yet they won't test their entire lines like Honda and Toyota did. Since, as some people have been kind enough to point out, Ford sells more pickups in the US than Honda does vehicles, it shouldn't be an issue of money.

    However, it IS an issue of marketing, and I can't fathom ANY reason why the Big Three wouldn't exploit this, unless, of course, they have something to lose. As we all know, a LOT of Americans buy cars based upon mileage (thus the ridiculously low real world MPG ratings of domestic gas hogs), and anytime a company ceases to go for the competitive advantage, it makes me certain they don't have one. They leveraged it as much as they could already, which was to point out gains by a very SMALL sample of vehicles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    how many make their small suv buying decision based on horsepower? thinking cr-v buyers. ;)
    on the other hand, nobody appreciates being sold horsepower that isn't there.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Honda got Izuzu as trade for The Civic and the Oddysey that Izuzu needed and sold as Izuzu Gemini and Izuzu Oasis. By the way, most of the Honda Oddyseys that are used for NYC cabs are Izuzu Oasis if you look closer. I don't think Gemini was ever sold here.

    I appologize baggs if I misread your posts.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    how many make their small suv buying decision based on horsepower?

    We know at least of one who keeps touting that HIS Escape has 40 more HP and 40 more Ft. lbs. and blah blah, blah, but still can't cath up to Honda in 0-60 tests :-)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Never heard of the Gemini. Judging by recent news it looks like Isuzu could benefit from another trade with Honda. They seem to be in pretty bad shape. A CR-V and Odyssey would help them out temendously.

    I appologize baggs if I misread your posts.

    No problem. We all do it. You made me work for it though! ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Since, as some people have been kind enough to point out, Ford sells more pickups in the US than Honda does vehicles, it shouldn't be an issue of money.

    However, it IS an issue of marketing, and I can't fathom ANY reason why the Big Three wouldn't exploit this, unless, of course, they have something to lose.


    I don't know about that. Ford doesn't really play the HP game right now as it is so I think they're just willing to save a few bucks and leave well enough alone. It's not like you're going to see increases of 50 HP. We're talking like 0-10 max in most cases. Probably not worth the extra cost given current finaces at the big 2.

    Would you give the Five Hundred or Escape a second look if they told you they just gained 5 HP for MY06? Didn't think so. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Never heard of the Gemini. Judging by recent news it looks like Isuzu could benefit from another trade with Honda. They seem to be in pretty bad shape. A CR-V and Odyssey would help them out temendously.

    Yes, it would help Isuzu, but there's really be nothing in it for Honda, now that Honda has a much larger line of automobiles than it did in 1995. Too bad it lost the Prelude though.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    not sure how your reply relates to my post about basing a small suv purchase based on horsepower. :confuse:
    if anyone does, it's like saying "i'm the best hitter in single A baseball" or "division 3 ncaa basketball".
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    You seriously haven't read any of the literally hundreds of "40 HP and 40 ft.-lbs of torque posts"???

    :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
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