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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Considering the Escape has been in production for roughly six years now and development costs were likely low due to the older platform they started with (and the shared development resources with Mazda) I'm guessing that they do make a decent profit on the Escape even when the rebates are $2k or more.

    This is one of Ford's major problems. They make a vehicle for so long it becomes obsolete, and by the time they get around to updating it (which usually involves coming out with a different model by a different name), the competition has went through two or three iterations and they are behind even further. Not to mention how much time and energy goes into marketing another vehicle, when the Japanese continue to build consumer confidence by turning out reliable vehicles with the same pedigree generation after generation. (Take the Civic, Accord, Camry and Corolla, for examples.)

    It's a vicious cycle, and it's one of the main reasons Toyota, Honda and Nissan are eating the Big 3 for lunch. That, and Detroit only seems to be concerned with making big profit pickups and SUVs when gas prices continue to climb, and their competitors keep offering more and more fuel efficient vehicles...

    :sick:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    i really don't think either one is significantly better than the other.
    so far, no problems in 2 years for our escape.
    i still see the same escapes parked in the same driveways for several years.
    go the the cr-v forums. plenty of posts about problems.
    other honda sites, same thing.
    that is one reason i doubt one is significantly better than the other.
    i doubt if i will ever see 150k on our escape. it is only driven about 12k per year.

    did you know the camry used the same chassis from 1990 until 2002?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    This is one of Ford's major problems. They make a vehicle for so long it becomes obsolete, and by the time they get around to updating it (which usually involves coming out with a different model by a different name), the competition has went through two or three iterations and they are behind even further.

    I know where you're coming from but it doesn't hold water across the board. That statement, and most about the big 2.5 here and around Edmunds, is too general. The Escape is a prime example because it is definitely old but still does well in sales and customer satisfaction. Ford is entirely too busy trying to get cars to market right now to spend it's already limited resources on redesigning a vehicle that leads its segment and maintains profits.

    That, and Detroit only seems to be concerned with making big profit pickups and SUVs when gas prices continue to climb, and their competitors keep offering more and more fuel efficient vehicles...

    Not true. Ford has been turning out cars and carlike vehicles over the past year or two which are up to the competition and leaving trucks on hold for the most part. The Fusion, Five Hundred, and Freestyle are perfect examples of what's new. Furthermore, they've killed one large SUV and only done minor updates on the rest of the larger SUV line. The next big thing in SUVs for them will be the 2007 Edge and a rumored "mini" SUV. Neither are bloated or gas guzzling and the Edge, along with most other vehicles using the new "hybrid ready" Duratec35, will in fact have a full hybrid version.

    It was just announced recently that Ford is keeping the Freestyle in the lineup instead of tossing it over to Mercury. It is going to be re-styled and will use the Duratec35. This will complement the 5-seat Edge with a larger 7-seat crossover and IMO make the Explorer a niche vehicle again. They realize the days of their SUV profits are numbered and are reacting appropriately.

    Just be patient as these things don't happen over night. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Just be patient as these things don't happen over night.

    You are right, but it seems that Ford has been working on that Duratec 3.5 L V-6 for several (3 or more) years now. I could be wrong, though.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I thought we went over this already? ;)

    It was ready a while ago but they put it back in the shop to add hybrid capability across the board.

    I have no way to give you a link for this info as it came from a post in another thread written by a Ford employee. He has spilled the beans and been right on many other things so I have no reason to doubt him on this. Take it with a grain of salt.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I hadn't heard ANYTHING about that being the reason for the delay. Thanks for the info ;). I feel better towards Ford knowing that.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Not true. Ford has been turning out cars and carlike vehicles over the past year or two which are up to the competition and leaving trucks on hold for the most part. The Fusion, Five Hundred, and Freestyle are perfect examples of what's new. Furthermore, they've killed one large SUV and only done minor updates on the rest of the larger SUV line. The next big thing in SUVs for them will be the 2007 Edge and a rumored "mini" SUV. Neither are bloated or gas guzzling and the Edge, along with most other vehicles using the new "hybrid ready" Duratec35, will in fact have a full hybrid version.

    Yes, it's true Ford proclaimed 2005 the Year of the Car, but what took them so long? Furthermore, the only two cars from Ford generating any buzz whatsoever are the Mustang (of course) and the Fusion, to some extent. The Freestyle, while a good vehicle, has been underwhelming to say the least, and people are picking the 300 over the 500 in droves, due to the 300s inspiring styling.

    And again, it's very little, very late. The new Camry is coming out with a much anticipated hybrid model, and the current Accord, which C&D ranked better than the new Fusion, is soon to follow with an 8th generation.

    The problem with Ford's cars is they don't stick by them, probably because they don't put a lot of thought into them. How else can you explain all the nameplates? I grew up with the Escort, Tempo, Taurus and the Crown Vic. The Escort was replaced by the Fusion with all of its initial quality problems, the Tempo was replaced by the Contour, which also had numerous problems and consequently died very quickly, the Taurus has been relegated to rental fleets and replaced by the Fusion, and the Crown Vic is a dinosaur which only old, old people and policeman will drive.

    Meanwhile, the Civic, Accord, Corolla and Camry soldier on and continue to get better and better. The Escape is soon to follow the fate of it's car brethren. It's been in production for ages now and there are no plans to replace it with a next generation. It says all Ford cares about is the almighty buck, all the while missing the big picture that you can't make money if no one will buy your car, no matter how cheaply you can make it or sell it.

    With the new RAV4 and the upcoming 3rd generation CR-V, there is no doubt the Escape will continue to see bigger rebates and more places in rental fleets. And people wonder why we don't care about buying American anymore...

    :mad:

    PS - GM and Chrysler ain't any better.

    :sick:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    they don't stick by them

    Smells like marketing to me. You just mentioned that the CR-V is on the 3rd generation - why didn't Honda stick with the first? Or is it just sticking with the name that matters?

    Old Beetle/New Beetle. Old Charger/New Charger. Soon to appear on your dinner plate - the new Fairlane. Toyota doesn't seem to mind changing names either (Tercel/Echo/Yaris comes to mind immediately), so maybe it's just some different marketing philosophy at work with the naming conventions.

    Steve, Host
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Smells like marketing to me. You just mentioned that the CR-V is on the 3rd generation - why didn't Honda stick with the first? Or is it just sticking with the name that matters?

    Because that's what Ford does, and it doesn't work. Of course it's marketing, but you don't change your name unless you have to. If you were proud of your vehicle, you want your customers to identify with it. If you're not, you change models and market it aggressively, hoping your customers don't remember the last debacle.

    Also, changing names, like offering rebates and radical styling (with some exceptions) hurt resale values. The domestics STILL don't grasp this aspect. That's why Hondas and Toyotas still hold their value, and domestics are a dime a dozen.

    And yes, you bring up the Tercel/Echo/Yaris, which is a good example of Toyota screwing up. The Echo was absolutely hated. The Tercel had a good thing going, but Toyota tried to capitalize and lost big time. Now they are gong more traditional with the already tried and true Yaris twins, so I'm sure they'll be just fine. In addition, Nissan is releasing the Versa and Honda the Fit. So where's the Ford competitor? Good question.

    :confuse:

    Check this article out.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    i grew up with toyota names like cresida, corona, corolla, celica, supra. the corolla is still around.
    where are the 600, prelude, crx, del Sol, s2000?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So, why is Honda bringing out the Fit? Shouldn't they be sticking with the tried and true, dare I say it -- more traditional CR-V? I suppose they really should have called the Fit the Odyssey, but Honda already upsized the name.

    Interesting article; they really didn't pick up on the history of GM, which gathered up some 200 car makers (and brands) when they started.

    Oh, and if you liked the Maverick brand name, you can buy one in China. But it's an Escape. :shades:

    You forgot the Passport, Explorerx4. My old '82 Toyota was a Corolla Tercel come to think of it. Great car, but my brand loyalty lasted about 6 minutes at the dealer when shopping for a new ride.

    Steve, Host
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    steve, actually i skipped the passport since it was really an isuzu. model lineage is more important than brand lineage? i'll let someone else do that. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I'm not claiming you should never drop a model. The Passport, for instance, was just a stopgap until Honda could get their own SUVs, which have been very successful BTW, to market. What you don't do is make a car for seven, eight or more years without updating it, then drop for it another similiar vehicle by the same name. People know exactly what they are getting when they buy a Civic or a Camry. You know the car has been around forever so you don't worry about parts, resale, et cetera. It also gives you less reason to shop around the next time you go to buy a vehicle.

    However, if the vehicle you just bought three or four years ago has been replaced, you are going to give other models more of a chance. That's where the Japanese tried and true nameplates are waiting to snatch you up. You don't exactly see people lining up to buy used Contours or Luminas, do you?

    ;)
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    As for the Fit, it's a well-known fact that if you can get someone to buy your brand for their first car, they're MUCH more likely to be a repeat buyer. This is another area where Ford seems to be completely ignorant. Yes, they make great pickups, but first-time new car buyers can't often afford a $30,000 to $40,000 vehicle. Not to mention the fact that it seems people are starting to wisen up and realize they don't necessarily "need" a pickup. The Fit may not make Honda a lot of money but it will give them a wider audience, and those very same people will be buying Oddyseys, Pilots and Ridgelines someday. As Sherlock Holmes would say, "It's elementary, my dear Watson."

    ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ok, I'll concede the point.

    As far as I know, there are no plans to do away with the Escape or CR-V brands anytime soon for what that's worth.

    So let's see, if you want a V6 or a hatch that opens over your head, and you don't like spare tires hanging off the back, you get the Escape. Otherwise the CR-V is your choice because it's more reliable and holds its value longer.

    Feel free to fill in the gaps. ;)

    Steve, Host
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    where are the 600, prelude, crx, del Sol, s2000?

    I don't know about the Toyotas you mentioned, since I'm not yet 30 and not a Toyota fan, but the Prelude was discontinued (and never replaced), the CRX and del Sol are just variations of the Civic, which is still around, as is the S2000. Glad I could help!

    :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, the Civic is older than you are.

    Now I'm curious if anyone in here has had their CR-V or Escape for more than, let's say, 6 years and 80,000 miles?

    Steve, Host
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Don't get me wrong, I grew up on Fords. As far back as I can remember my parents had a 1970 Ford Galaxy, a 1983 Ford LTD, a 1988 Ford Crown Victoria and a 1999 Ford Windstar. My first new car was a 2003 Ford ZX2, and my second vehicle is a 1990 F150. My in-laws have a Ford F150, a Taurus and an Escort. My dad sold Fords for several years. I've been around them my entire life.

    My disgust comes from the fact I feel like Ford has betrayed the buying public in the name of profits. My ZX2 was a piece of garbage whose tranny problems progressed steadily during the 18,000 miles I had it (I traded it in on my CR-V) and my brother's Ford Contour practically fell apart. When we went shopping for a family vehicle, I gave the Escape more chances than any other vehicle. I went back and test drove something like three or four times, but I just couldn't pull the trigger.

    Like other posters here, I was initially worried about the CR-V "only" having a four cylinder. After my first test drive, though, I found out that all vehicles are NOT created equal. I've had such a good experience, I can't imagine going domestic anytime soon for our main vehicle. (I do have my eye on a used Chevy Prizm to replace my F150, but that's really a rebadged Toyota Corolla.) I can almost guarantee our next vehicle will be an Odyssey, once we add a couple more kids to our clan.

    :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    my experience is different from yours. everyone i know that has/had a honda complains and turns them in for another brand.
    i have posted this before. i see lots of hondas in driveways in my neighborhood. if they are replaced, it is rarely another honda.
    btw the most problematic vehicle we have ever had was a toyota celica, that was treated as respectfully as any vehicle could have been.
    that being said, i am pretty much the lone 'domestic' owner on my street. it does not make me wrong. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    most of the pro-v posters don't own one. they just recite stats and magazine reviews. :sick:
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Freestyle, while a good vehicle, has been underwhelming to say the least,

    Boy you ought to head over to the Freestyle thread and check out who's buying them and why.

    With the new RAV4 and the upcoming 3rd generation CR-V, there is no doubt the Escape will continue to see bigger rebates and more places in rental fleets.

    I wouldn't be so sure. The Escape will be receiving another refresh in a year or two (the spy shots are somewhere on InsideLine) and that may be enough for it to hold on to the top spot.

    Meanwhile, the Civic, Accord, Corolla and Camry soldier on and continue to get better and better.

    I'll defer this to the other posts. Honda may not be guilty of constantly changing names but Toyota sure is.

    Maybe it's because I don't care about reliability or resale or maybe it's something else but I like to see fresh new models. The Accord and Camry bore me to death.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Maybe it's because I don't care about reliability or resale or maybe it's something else but I like to see fresh new models. The Accord and Camry bore me to death.

    I agree, like the CR-V, the Accord and the Camry may not be the most exciting vehicles on the face of the planet, but they are very good at doing what they are designed for, and that is getting people from Point A to Point B. At the end of the day, that's what it's about.

    I live in the Midwest, so almost everyone I work with owns a big four door pickup or SUV, such as a TrailBlazer, Suburban, Durango or Explorer. Then there is this guy who farms on the side (we are both in Information Systems) who drives a little Metro. It's SO not macho like the other in-town guys who just HAVE to have that Dodge Ram with the Hemi to drive four blocks to work, but it is sure is sensible. I always get a chuckle seeing his little car parked between the parking lot behemoths, as does he I'm sure when he fills his car up at the gas station.

    Furthermore, you are only going to lose money on a vehicle, so my philosophy is to lose less. I'd rather spend money on my wife, my son or my house. The returns are much higher. I guess I'm just super practical.

    :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Maybe it's because I don't care about reliability or resale or maybe it's something else but I like to see fresh new models.

    Most people care about reliability for financial reasons. Many can't afford to miss work because their car broke down, and then pay $1,200 to fix it (e.g. our Sebring Convertible). Reliability is likely important to most, but the level of reliability is where many people vary. Some see it as good if they go 100,000 miles without spending $1,000 on their car in repairs. I'll take my $300 or so for my 160,000 miles.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I'll take my $300 or so for my 160,000 miles.


    That's pretty laughable IMO. Our Civic cost us quite a bit more than that in 30,000 miles.

    Reliability is likely important to most, but the level of reliability is where many people vary.

    I have to disagree. It has been written recently in the news that women are most influential when it comes time for a family to buy a car. Pretty much all of the women I know buy vehicles based on looks. For example, our Civic was my wife's first car and was bought by her before we were married. Want to know how she picked that car out? Yep, it was "cute". I could go on and on with these.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I agree, like the CR-V, the Accord and the Camry may not be the most exciting vehicles on the face of the planet, but they are very good at doing what they are designed for, and that is getting people from Point A to Point B. At the end of the day, that's what it's about.

    Yes and no. I guess most people probably just want to get from A to B in the end. How you get there matters to the rest of us. Ever since I leased my Mazda6 I have been taking back roads to and from work because they are very twisty and hilly. It's a hoot! Well, until I get behind an Accord or Camry that is. ;)

    Furthermore, you are only going to lose money on a vehicle, so my philosophy is to lose less. I'd rather spend money on my wife, my son or my house.

    How true. But we were more practical with our house which allows us to be gluttons in other aspects of our lives like the cars, each other, and the boys. We bought what we needed and that's it. All of our friends are building/buying giant 4 bedroom McMansions for three or four people and can't afford a swing set for their tiny backyards. I sat on a couch in front of my big screen HDTV watching The Masters for an hour or two yesterday while I sipped a freshly tapped beer from my kegerator. Some of those aforementioned friends were probably working so they could keep up with the rest of the Joneses. :sick:
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    " Pretty much all of the women I know buy vehicles based on looks. "

    LOL......Exactly.......Fits my wife perfectly.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You better make sure the wives don't read these forums...:)

    That's pretty laughable IMO. Our Civic cost us quite a bit more than that in 30,000 miles.

    I'm sorry to hear that, but my statement isn't laughable, instead, its true. You can actually see the car on carspace.com if you like. I fibbed a little, it's actually got 159,000, but over 150k, who's counting?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Once again, not the whole truth.. Should read " A 4cylinder 5spd CRV that is redlined through every gear, outruns a V6 Escape.....

    You forgot to mention that Escape is redlining too and still can't catch up. Despite having 2 more cylinders, and 0.6 liters more of displacement, still can't beat CR-V.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Are you really comparing the Fit to a Corvette?? This is the silver "H" syndrome again...

    Did I anywhere compare all of the Fit to all of the Corvette? I just stated what Car and driver stated, that Fit bested Corvette in the slalom.

    As far as the H-syndrome, someone should be checked for PARANOIA, and CONSPIRACY syndromes.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Once a car has sufficient power (again, I'll make the exception for sports cars), then adding hp just for the sake of faster 0-60 times is a waste of engineering and $$. I'd rather see that engineering and $$ go into some other aspect of a car.

    That clearly shows that Honda has put more engineering in other aspects of the vehicle than the engine alone. How can a 4 cylinder 160 hp vehicle outrun a V6 200 hp vehicle if is it not better engineered?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As far as the H-syndrome, someone should be checked for PARANOIA, and CONSPIRACY syndromes.

    The H-syndrome for us has consisted of only $300 in the way of repairs (except for wreck) on my old Honda Accord (160k miles). The brakes (although mostly highway driving) lasted 128k miles on the front, and are the original shoes on the back. The main cooling fan motor failed at 145,000 miles. Original tranny, motor, engine parts, exhaust, etc., and I got 27.6 MPGs in mixed driving on my last fillup (I average 26 in town, 30 HWY)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Consider me brainwashed.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    most of the pro-v posters don't own one. they just recite stats and magazine reviews.

    I own both, 2005 CR-V EX 5MAN and 2005 Escape XLT, and can REALLY COMPARE. So, whatever anyone else is posting is just hearsay. They don't deal with both vehicles on the daily basis. Until they do, they should just keep quiet and stop posting about nonsensical conspiracies and H-syndromes.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So, which one is cuter?

    :D

    Steve, Host
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    So, which one is cuter?



    Steve, Host


    Escape, that is why we have it. Originally we were going to become a 2 CR-V family. But, she thought Escape was cuter. Since she is paying for it with her own money, she can get whatever she wants. There is no way I could reason with "cute!"
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    There is no way I could reason with "cute!"

    See, I wasn't making that up! ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    but my statement isn't laughable, instead, its true.

    Sorry about that. I didn't mean to imply you were lying about the $300 but rather was pointing out that your experience is not necessarily the norm.

    What was the $300 for? How much did it cost to replace the timing belt? Once or twice so far for that last one?
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Now that's the best reason I can think of to buy a particular car. I guess the Escape wins this contest...LOL
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "where are the 600, prelude, crx, del Sol, s2000?"

    Not at all on topic, but since when has that stopped us... Interesting that you mention those. The reasons behind those are kinda interesting.

    First, if you are referring to the S600, then you're talking about one of Honda's very first cars. It was a small roadster with a motorcycle engine and chain-drive. It was followed by the S800. The vehicle was cancelled when roadsters fell out of fashion. The same was done by every other manufacturer until Mazda revived the segment in the 1980's. The S2000, which you also mention, is named after the S600. S=Sport and the number is the displacement of the engine. It's not unlike the way Nissan named their sport cars 240Z, 280Z, 300Z, and now 350Z. So, this is a perfect example of Honda sticking with the same name. Even though the successor arrived many, many years later.

    And the S2000 is still being produced, so I'm not clear on why you mention it.

    The Prelude was killed because the market disappeared. Basically, the same deal as when roadsters died off in the 60's and muscle cars died off in the 70's. No real news there.

    The name of the CRX was changed (get this) because of insurance costs. Insurance companies were cracking down on hi-po cars at the time and slapping big rates on any vehicle with a name which included Z, or X (300Z, IROC-Z, Z-24, etc.) So Honda changed the name from CRX to "Civic del Sol" to make it seem more like a common economy car. They later dropped the Civic part and just called it Del Sol.

    Actually, one of the best things about the Integra was the fact that it was initially registered as a compact economy car, not a sports car. The insurance companies caught on after a while, though.

    Oddly, enough you forgot to mention the two most famous (and in one case, disastrous) name changes from Honda. When they changed Legend to RL and Integra to RSX.

    But when it comes to those vehicles which are doing well, Honda (and Toyota) have not changed the names. They keep the name around and it eventually becomes an icon for the segment. Honda doesn't really have to spend money marketing the Civic or Accord because they are so well known.

    This is not unique to the imports. Ford has kept the F series alive for decades. Ditto for vehicles like the Vette or Mustang. But the domestics haven't been as successful as Honda and Toyota. With the exception of the competition-lacking world of big trucks, the domestics have not been able to build the same nameplate equity as the imports. They only achieved the same success in niche markets.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    With the exception of the competition-lacking world of big trucks, the domestics have not been able to build the same nameplate equity as the imports.

    Lacking? I disagree. Toyota has been trying for years without any major success (that one was renamed too if you recall) and Nissan is struggling along now. I'm sure there will be more in the future just as more have come along in the Civic and Accord class over the years. Those weren't always as competitive as they are now either and the last five years have really been good for competition and the consumer.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "most of the pro-v posters don't own one. they just recite stats and magazine reviews"

    Well, I owned a 2003 CR-V until recently... not everyone is a troll!
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    not everyone is a troll!

    Some trolls are owners and some are not. Thankfully, they are relatively rare. :)

    tidester, host
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Hey John (stevedebi),
    Why don't you tell dromedarius what a flop the Freestyle is. ;)

    It's an obvious upgrade option for a CR-V or Escape owner but which one is it more like?

    This very well might be the missing link between the two camps present in this thread. :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I consider the timing belt a maintenance cost, since EVERY car with this belt should have it replaced at the recommended interval (just like transmission fluid, oil changes, etc...). The timing belt was changed a little early at 87k, and is due for another one at 177k.

    It's ok, I did misunderstand, and any unkindness wasn't meant.

    The $300 was to replace the main cooling fan motor(radiator fan). It just completely failed last summer (bad timing).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think maintenance is part of the Total Cost of Ownership (title case in deference to the TCO tool).

    My minivan maintenance has cost me $2,809.96 over 109,000 miles. That includes brakes, oil, tires, battery, bulbs, IM inspections, etc. Parts that failed would be a CV boot/axle at $169 plus some stuff that was replaced under warranty early on, like the wiper switch and power window motor. That doesn't count, right? :shades:

    Got a handle on the other number?

    My total operating expenses for the van, not counting depreciation, is $16,636 over ~7+ years or .18 a mile (per Excel anyway). Double that for the depreciation. :cry:

    Steve, Host
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I consider the timing belt a maintenance cost, since EVERY car with this belt should have it replaced at the recommended interval (just like transmission fluid, oil changes, etc...). The timing belt was changed a little early at 87k, and is due for another one at 177k.


    I consider it routine maintenance as well but I was just curious as to how much it cost to replace. Most, if not all now, Fords use a timing chain and don't require that extra visit. Those that did have a belt were not in danger of valve interference and didn't get destroyed. I realize Honda finally woke up and began using chains recently but I feel too many people were ripped off when having to deal with that belt. It's not cheap right?

    I wish some numbers were available to show how many people destroyed their engines simply because they didn't follow the maintenace schedule. I bet the data are eye opening.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I wish some numbers were available to show how many people destroyed their engines simply because they didn't follow the maintenace schedule. I bet the data are eye opening.

    That would apply to any car.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That would apply to any car.

    Yes it would but as I stated Ford's engines typically are not of the interference type and Honda's are. If both have the same failure rate for timing belts then Honda owners are the big losers.

    As a side note an interference type motor is not a bad thing at all. This type of engine is typically built with tighter tolerances and more efficient which is the definition of a modern Honda engine. Just maintain the stupid belt if you have one!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Why don't you tell dromedarius what a flop the Freestyle is. ;)

    It's an obvious upgrade option for a CR-V or Escape owner but which one is it more like? "

    Well, it is styled like a Ford Explorer, which is similar to the Escape styling, though updated last year. So it looks more like an Escape. However, it runs 4000lbs, has a CVT, and can seat 7 comfortably and still have 22 CuFt behind the 3rd seat. No comparison on ride to either CR-V or Escape - no surprise there due to the longer wheelbase.

    However, the Freestyle drives like a Volvo, which is the platform upon which it is based.

    The FS is selling pretty well, considering the fact the Ford doesn't advertise it at all. I think they're afraid of destroying their Explorer sales. The FS is a much better family car for those who do not need towing.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Now I'm curious if anyone in here has had their CR-V or Escape for more than, let's say, 6 years and 80,000 miles?"

    Don't have it anymore, but I had my CR-V for almost 7 years and 114,000 miles.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Lacking? I disagree. Toyota has been trying for years without any major success (that one was renamed too if you recall) and Nissan is struggling along now."

    How long has Ford been selling the F series? 50 years?

    Toyota has been in the market for what? A decade? And Toyota would bring the total number of competitors in the field to four. The number of nameplates in the mid-size sedan market is something like three or four times that of the big truck market. And that market has been competitive since the dawn of the automobile.
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