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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Funny, I was under the impression that Germany started WW2 in 1939. Japan has joined up in 1941. It did, however, start a Sino-Japanese war in 1937 with China, but that's not WW2. Is this what students are taught in history classes in US schools, that WW2 was started by Japanese with bombing of Pearl Harbor?
  • Eagle, I plead the 5th. I will concede that the Tundra is dark green. :)

    tbunder, according to uaw.org, the uaw make the Toyota Tacoma. It doesn't say the entire vehicle, but that can be assumed.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    The world does not revolve around America. WW2 started in 1939. Anyway......
    Nice pix. The story behind the Mall-roader (that F150) is pretty funny too, sad, do you remember the details of it?
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    the particulars. I do remember it being pretty funny, though.

    I figured you would have doubts, tbunder. Oh well, I tried. The pics of the ones with gun turrets are still pending. I can't wait to see those either.

    Just an addition for what it is worth, all of the rural mail carriers here in MS are equipped with tacomas for use. Just one way I see the gov't using these trucks, not very important, I know.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
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  • lariat1lariat1 Posts: 461
    If anybody is interested look up the role of the Ford Family and the Rockafeller family when Germany was building its war machine. You will find that if it were not for those 2 Germany would have had a harder time building their armies.
  • Scorpio, I did not say "The world ... revolve[s] around America.", I was trying to clarify things as how tbunder's statement, or our interpretation of it, was not as intended.

    "The world does not revolve around America. WW2 started in 1939." I agree, how did I disagree? Why are you stating the obvious facts? Yes the war started then, but America's involvement was purely economic(oil embargos) and politically oriented until Pearl Harbor.

    lariat1, Don't forget GM too. Also, I am sure Toyota(Toyoda?) had some involvement with Japan's war efforts.
  • allknowingallknowing Posts: 866
    sc0rpi0 - You're technically correct, however, the world would not be here in its present form without the US. Consequently, in many respects, the world does revolve around the US (America).

    lariat1 - The Kennedy's were also alleged to be supporters of Germany before the US was involved.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Locker vs LSD.
    Locker is better for Offroad no doubt. Locker cannot help you tow, may help pull but not tow. You have MPH restrictions in your handbook. The locker is NORMALLY an open axle. Do you not know what this means? and you own a 4x4?? Try taking a sharp turn while your locker is engaged and see what happens.. Lockers are useless to the everyday truck user. An LSD is better for towing, hauling and even usefull in pulling. do I need to go into how an LSD works? The LSD would have done just fine in pulling your boat out.. been there, done that..
    Its very obviouse you don't understand HP/Torque curves.. otherwise you would have looked a bit harder at the RAnger..
    I know this is off topic in this room. The straight 6 that GM puts out is very reliable. Are you one of those people whom are caught up in the myth that anything that says T O Y O T A on it is reliable no questions asked? This drivetrain is proving to be quite relaible and potent combination...
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    is a LSD better for towing, hauling and pulling? If one of your tires is losing traction while towing, hauling or pulling I'd say you have bigger problems to worry about than LSD vs. locker, LOL! And in the case of pulling something and having a tire lose traction, I'd say a locker would work even been than an LSD.

    "Its very obviouse you don't understand HP/Torque curves.. otherwise you would have looked a bit harder at the RAnger.."

    No, I for one understand them perfectly, which is exactly why if I needed a serious work truck, I'd only get a diesel. But for a small compact truck whose towing capacity is very limited, it's not as critical as you make it out to be.

    But for the record, the V6 Tacoma out-accelerated the 4.0 V6 Ranger in that 1998 comparo, both loaded and unloaded. Maybe Ford's newer 4.0 can finally give the Toyota's 3.4 (8 years old now?) a run for its money!

    Whatever, doood!
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    stang, tbunder said "country that started WW2", I'm just clarifying it. There's not a word in there about US involvement, you added that on later.

    ak: The world would not be in its present form without the USSR. Consequently, in many respects, the world does revolve around USSR (Russia). This can be said about almost any country (England for the technological revolution, Spain for inquisition, etc).

    Anyway, sorry for starting this up. Just wanted to correct tbunder. Lets not go deeper into the history of the world.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    A limited slip diff works with clutches. When one wheel starts to slip this slipping action engages the other wheel. A locker however is locked in and both wheels turn all the time. A LSD is far less expensive to rebuild and a locker, along with MUCH easier..
    1998 comparison!??? The new SOHC 4.0 will just plain outpower your Toyota 3.4...
    Pluto, you are talking to someone with over 15 years of offroad experience here.. How long have you been offroading? Where do you offroad? What are the classes of trails? name them from hardest to easiest please...
    Plane and simple is my Ranger will get me anywhere you Toyota will go..
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    the LSD is more useful than a locker when towind -- not "pulling." Maybe accelerating off the line??? Maybe going around a wet turn, but why should you go that fast anyway, stupid. With all due respect, the BS is getting deeper and deeper. I think I pointed out that the LSD would have done the same in my particular boat situation. I still consider that towing though.

    However, let's say for a second that you are entirely right. That still does not mean that Fords best LSD and Toyotas locker are part of a towing and pulling packages. They are part of the respective OFF ROAD packages of each model. With that said, call it a hunch, but I would believe most people purpose those packages with off roading MORE in mind than towing and pulling. I know that's what I was thinking when I got my truck with the locker. I have said this like 200000 times and you still bring up the same irrelevant point. You said yourself that the locker is better off road, so why can't you see that it is more appropriate in an off road package than an LSD?

    Again, I say: lift a tire off the ground and tell me what happens. I bet you, that if me and you go thru the same spot where a back tire simply lifts off the ground and all three other tires stay on the ground, my 2wd w/ locker would make it as easy as you. Of course, you didn't answer that the last six times I asked it, though. Why would you now? You will NOT go anywhere a locked Toyota will, I am sorry.
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    no matter how many times he posts his HP/torque curves, he gets the same response. nothing. He just doesn't get it that no one here cares about HP/torque curves. don't worry vinny, I'm just giving you a hard time. although I do question this statement:
    "A LSD is far less expensive to rebuild and a locker, along with MUCH easier.."
    -you're right. but fortunately, lockers generally don't need to be rebuilt, whereas LSD's do.
  • "you're right. but fortunately, lockers generally don't need to be rebuilt, whereas LSD's do."

    That is true, but it's easy to see why. Because in any given 60,000 miles, a locker is "locked" for maybe 1-2,000 miles tops. While the Limited Slip probably see's around 30-40,000 miles of use (any clutch wearing incident). Just estimations, but you get the idea.

    Locker, good for off-roading, but not for turning. Good for "pulling boats out of water", but again, nothing over 20-25 MPH, or turning.

    Limited slip, good for always on traction, especially payment and turning/curves in road. Good for towing in general, and pretty much any safe speed.

    Pro and cons for each, just depends on what application you buy and use your compact truck for.

    pluto--->I do not know if you have considered it or not, but the 1998 model 4.0L Ranger has about 47 less horsepower than the current 4.0l. Maybe it is time to retire the review from 1998.
  • tbundertbunder Posts: 580
    scorp says the world does not revolve around the U.S. yeah, right bud. and yes, i did misspeak about what country started ww2. i did mean with us, and you knew that. sorry to make my statements so hard to understand. also, if you want to see where simpson college ranks among colleges, check out us news and world report. you'll see its #1 in the midwest.

    pluto- stang has just said it. its time to deal with the present. and that being said, the trd only scores a 3rd place in truck contests.

    anyways, i think im retiring from this board. i am considering buying a mazda protege5, yes a 100% japanese car that is actually built in hiroshima and shipped over. its cheaper than 4x4's, and more functional for me right now than a truck (better mileage, funner, cheaper, and not like everyone else). not to mention it is imo, one of the coolest cars out, with the sportronic auto/man shifter.

    so take your lsd/locker/off-road/whatever discussions we've rehashed here umpteen times over the last 8 mos, and leave my name out of them. its been fun. when i buy another 4x4, ill chime in again.
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    Ditto saddaddy's comments, scape2. You haven't explained how your LSD helps you tow, haul or pull. I don't see many people's tires "peeling out" and losing traction when they tow, haul or pull, except for maybe on a slick boat ramp when pulling a boat. The locker is even better than the LSD in that situation.

    Just curious, isn't the non-TRD Tacoma available with an LSD anyways? Pick which one you want, then!

    What's my four-wheeling experience? Well, the very fact that you ask what class of trails I drive on tells me you're a recreational offroader. I don't four-wheel for fun, for me, it's part of life. For almost 10 years I've been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico, and my truck spends 90% of its time on ranches in south central Mexico which resembles a jungle more than anything. There's no way you can convince me a LSD is better for climbing up a muddy, caliche, bumpy hill than a locker. If you want to classify what I've been driving in the last decade, be my guest.

    Stang: "but the 1998 model 4.0L Ranger has about 47 less horsepower than the current 4.0l"

    Wow, so in 1998 the Ford 4.0 was only making about 160 horses, while the Toyota 3.4 was making 190? It's taken Ford 8 years to make a 4.0 outperform Toyota's 3.4? And it only outperforms it by 17 horses? Is that really something to be proud of?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    A locker is better for offroading, better than an LSD.
    But, how often will the average person use this locker? Maybe 2% of their total driving time? A locker is only supposed to be used in extreme conditions. Most people don't even know when to use thier locker or how to use thier locker. a limited slip diff has much more use and function for the everyday user. The locker is normally an OPEN axle, do you not understand what this means? Its funny how some will beat thier chests about offroad ability. Yet stats show over 90 percent of 4x4 vehicles barely even see a gravel road. The Ranger offers a nice ride for city streets, yet give you the aiblity to visit your natiional forests, parks.
    plut.. made my point.. I use my RAnger in the Cacade Mountains.. MT Hood, MT St. Helens, Jefferson, 3 sisters.. look them up on a map. I have also been into the Tillamook National Forest area, Coast Ranges of Oregon/Washington. I have been to Lions Back/Utah/Nevada and rock climbed with Jeepers on many occasions(not my Ranger).
    The Ranger is a capaple truck, just as capable as a Toyota. Toyota trucks don't come with some magic potion for offroading. 1998?? Why are we going back into the past? The new 4.0 will out pull/perform/haul the 3.4 in the Toyota. You have to rev the heck out of the Toyota to get any power. The Torque/HP curve on the Ranger is much more aggressive and truck like.
  • "It's taken Ford 8 years to make a 4.0 outperform Toyota's 3.4? And it only outperforms it by 17 horses? Is that really something to be proud of?"

    It's important if you like to drag race stock compact pickup trucks. But even you were bragging how the 1998 Tacoma could out accelerate a Ranger. Maybe it's time for a retest? Even you should understand the difference of 30% extra peak horsepower.

    You also forgot that the Ford 4.0l has more torque in either model, clearly a product of it's extra cubic inches. You also forget (or don't know) what a Torque curve (or lack thereof) does for a vehicle on the street with a payload or not. You see peak numbers. I see peak numbers at more truck specific RPM's. I also am a bit familair with the properties of 2valve and 4 valve applications in relations to low, midrange and high-end power production, and of course what good ole cubic inches (no matter how refined you think it is) relates to great power once you leave idle RPM. Someday you won't be as pushy thinking one truck absolutely rules the other in all categories. Either way it's time for a modern comparison, that realizes both pro and cons.

    " I don't see many people's tires "peeling out" and losing traction when they tow, haul or pull,"

    That's true, except when you are driving home and it rains. If you are towing an ATV, or two motorcycles in a trailer, and it starts to pour, which would you rather have to help you take that curvy on-ramp onto the highway? A locker or a Limited Slip Differential? Both have it's applications. Locker for off-roading, Limited Slip for anything with a turn involved.

    "For almost 10 years I've been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico"

    Wow, that's pretty cool for a 1998 truck that you had owned since 1992.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    Most people don't need a locker, most people this and that.

    MOST people don't buy the offroad package.
    MOST people that buy the offroad package want an off road truck.
    MOST people who buy an offroad package want their truck to excel in that arena more than street racing, handling, and towing.

    Why is that so tough to understand?
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    stang, I have to put on my waders to read through your BS everytime you post. BLAH BLAH you and your torque curves. What good are they when in the REAL WORLD the Tacoma outperformed the Ranger in every performance test, despite the Ranger's torque advangtage?

    Don't even say the the new Ranger outperforms the Tacoma until they go head to head in a comparison.

    As far as your knowledge of 2 and 4 valve engines go...do you know that Toyota pioneered the variable intake manifold concept and that it eliminated the lack of low end grunt associated with 4 valve engines?

    But your dumbest statement is "For almost 10 years I've (meaning me) been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico. Wow, that's pretty cool for a 1998 truck that you had owned since 1992"

    Did it ever occur to you I was in Mexico long before I bought my truck??????????????????????
  • Pluto and Sadddaddy. I am so sorry to upset you both on the touchy subject of Tacoma vs Ranger.. Didn't mean to bruise your ego's...

    "MOST people don't buy the offroad package.
    MOST people that buy the offroad package want an off road truck.
    MOST people who buy an offroad package want their truck to excel in that arena more than street racing, handling, and towing. "

    1st point I'll agree.
    2nd Point, may or may not be true. A lot of TRD and 4X4 decals never leave the payment.
    3rd point sure, people want their truck to excel in everything, but I don't see how an off-road package directly relates to towing.

    I'm talking real world, always active traction help. You're talking about the few seconds a boat is pulled up a wet ramp, or the ultimate off-roading situation. I also was making fun of drag racing a stock compact truck.

    "What good are they when in the REAL WORLD the Tacoma outperformed the Ranger in every performance test, despite the Ranger's torque advangtage?"

    Are we talking the out-dated 1998 performance test, or a current year one?

    "do you know that Toyota pioneered the variable intake manifold concept and that it eliminated the lack of low end grunt associated with 4 valve engines?"

    I guess they "pioneered" it before the old 160 horse 4.0l? Because they had them too.

    "But your dumbest statement is "For almost 10 years I've (meaning me) been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico. Wow, that's pretty cool for a 1998 truck that you had owned since 1992""

    Ok, so you were talking about off-roading. But how did the Tacoma exist "since 1992".
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    "A lot of TRD and 4X4 decals never leave the payment."

    And a lot do. Like mine, for example. Who cares anyways? Most people who buy a Corvette won't drive it at 150mph, and most people who buy a Land Rover aren't going to take it on an African safari. But you don't hear people saying that a Miata and a Subaru AWD are just as good as a Corvette and Land Rover because the latter most likely aren't going to be used to their potential. Lame-o- argument there!

    "3rd point sure, people want their truck to excel in everything, but I don't see how an off-road package directly relates to towing"

    What? The TRD's heavier duty suspension handles the rigors of hauling and towing better than the standard suspension. That one should have been obvious! Why do you think an F-350 has a heavier duty suspension than an F-250? Better towing and hauling, maybe? Anybody home?

    "Are we talking the out-dated 1998 performance test, or a current year one?"

    Well, the current Ranger only has 17 more horses than the 1998 Ranger. Is the 17 horses really going to give the Ranger a land-side victory over the Tacoma, assuming it even beats it? How is that going to help the Ranger dethrone the Tacoma in braking, suspension performance and off-roading?

    And once again: Ford's taking 8 years to make a 4.0 finally outperform (and only by 17 horses) Toyota's 3.4 should be a source of embarrasment, not bragging.

    "I guess they "pioneered" it (variable intake manifold) before the old 160 horse 4.0l? Because they had them too."

    Nice try. The 4.0 is a SOHC design, not a DOHC 4 valve design. Toyota developed the variable intake manifold to eliminate the lack of low end grunt in DOHC 4 valve engines. How could Ford have done the same if they don't have any DOHC engines - at least in mainstream truck applications?

    "Ok, so you were talking about off-roading. But how did the Tacoma exist "since 1992"

    I don't even know what you're trying to say with that. Your assumptions are making you look like a, well, you know...

    And finally: IF YOU DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT OFF-ROADING, DON'T GET THE TRD! GET THE REGULAR 4X4 WHICH IS MORE COMPARABLE TO THE RANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOT IT????????
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    Actually I would guess Stang is right: most TRD's never leave the pavement. (maybe a gravel road) But a big part of this problem is simply availability and marketing. Here in MN, virtually every 4x4 tacoma you see on a dealer's lot is equipped with the TRD package. You have to special order the truck without it if you don't want it. For that reason, many people who probably normally wouldn't choose the TRD end up getting it because it's not worth the hassle and the wait to order one. I don't know if this is typical in other parts of the country or not. And of course, there's always a percentage of buyers who will get the off-road package simply for the look and "macho" aspect of it.
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    I bought mine in 1998 in San Antonio, TX and at that time the TRD was hard to come by. I believe that was the first year the TRD was introduced and I'm sure that had something to do with it. Thinking back, it did take me a while to find what I was looking for. My truck's basically loaded except it has the manual transmission, not a popular combo I guess.
  • Picture ole sweet little Mr. Plutonius, sitting at his computer typing fervently away. He see's one of my posts, be it about GPS's, door knobs, trucks, or even land I may own. It doesn't really matter what I am talking about, but no matter what I say, Pluto will either 1. ignore it (my preference). 2. Make fun of it. 3. Put up a debate full of insults or belittle every chance he gets, or ever detail he can.

    Anyways I'm picturing a big bulbous vein in his right temple and neck throbbing and pulsing with increasing rate. His eyes locked wide open, teeth nashed, sort of like a guy getting his first prostrate exam.

    Tact, Empathy, respect? Ever hear or practice these terms?

    Where's the love? :)
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    heard the term "prostrate" exam before!
  • LOL, well you are prostrate while getting your prostate poked. Simple misspelling, but you illustrate my point exactly.

    "Well, the current Ranger only has 17 more horses than the 1998 Ranger. Is the 17 horses really going to give the Ranger a land-side victory over the Tacoma, assuming it even beats it? How is that going to help the Ranger dethrone the Tacoma in braking, suspension performance and off-roading?"

    207 (new 4.0l) - 160 (old 4.0l) does NOT equal 17. It's 47. Like I said a 30% increase, and that would probably make a huge difference in any contest. The point was the torque has been the same, always over the Tacoma. Torque moves the vehicle. Torque is how much the vehicle can move, horsepower is how quick it can do it. If you want a truck for towing, off-roading, whatever, you should be after torque. Which is what the Ranger had all along.

    Braking is different, I don't know the results of any contest (albeit from 1998) and if anything might of significantly changed. However I can say that the Ranger is no slouch when braking. A few feet may be all the difference.

    Steering, trucks drive like trucks, but nowhere have I seen anybody complain about on-road manners of a Ranger. In fact, most praise the Ranger's handling (suspension, steering, etc)

    "Nice try. The 4.0 is a SOHC design, not a DOHC 4 valve design. Toyota developed the variable intake manifold to eliminate the lack of low end grunt in DOHC 4 valve engines. How could Ford have done the same if they don't have any DOHC engines - at least in mainstream truck applications?"

    Did I say that the 4.0L is DOHC? No I did not.

    I did say that the vacuum driven plenum has been available before 1998, and more likely since early 90's. I just don't see anything online to back that up, yet. So it's not Toyota specific technology, Ford has been using it for close to, if not over, a decade.

    Toyota did this to help give the 3.4l some more guts at lower RPM's, and help counteract the 4-valve tendancies. Ford does this to make the 4.0l breathe better at either high or lower RPM's. A vacuum driven plenum divider doesn't benefit only DOHC.

    ""Ok, so you were talking about off-roading. But how did the Tacoma exist "since 1992"

    I don't even know what you're trying to say with that. Your assumptions are making you look like a, well, you know..."

    In your Tacoma preaching, you said something about off-roading since 1992. I said, that's amazing, because the Tacoma didn't even exist back then. If you were trying to defend your off-road experience, I just miss-understood you.

    When you were talking to scape2 about LSD and lockers, you were talking about how you drove all over the mud and flooded places in mexico. Then you basically say you can't beat a Locker for off-roading. Then you say...
    " If you want to classify what I've been driving in the last decade, be my guest."

    That led me to believe you are either full of it, (as how can you be driving a Tacoma for over a decade, because They don't exist), or the last option is you were typing about another vehicle which is subsequently unnamed. What am I supposed to believe?

    "And finally: IF YOU DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT OFF-ROADING, DON'T GET THE TRD! GET THE REGULAR 4X4 WHICH IS MORE COMPARABLE TO THE RANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOT IT????????"

    Ok, I will do exactly what you tell me to do. I trust your ASCII text better than anything I have ever heard or known...
    Ok, I got it...

    Oops, I lost it...
  • plutoniousplutonious Posts: 799
    "In your Tacoma preaching, you said something about off-roading since 1992. I said, that's amazing, because the Tacoma didn't even exist back then...or the last option is you were typing about another vehicle which is subsequently unnamed"

    LOL, so if I say I've been off-roading since 1992, that automatically means I've been using a Tacoma? You live in a funny world, one in which the sun rises in the west and sets in the east and pacific and eastern time are reversed!
  • When you get missunderstood. But is that the fault of the person speaking, or the person listening? Shouldn't most speakers try to be understood by their audience? Sorry to put words in your already full mouth.

    And the sun only rises in the west on Tuesdays here... £Ç
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