Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

marklo · August 2002

at the comments that are continually posted in here. I know it's a Ranger vs. Tacoma message board, but good grief. I've come to realize, diehard Ranger owners, will never like Tacomas, and visa versa. I'll continue to come in here for a quick chuckle..."Mine is better than yours!" LOL! ;-)

Marklo

tbunder1 · August 2002

lmao. intelligent, real intelligent.

saddaddy · August 2002

and I am proud to say that I do not believe that Rangers are crap and that they are pretty nice trucks. Wow, this therapy stuff really worx! Happy monday everyone.

obiwankenobi1 · August 2002

I wouldn't own a Ranger if someone bought it for me. I used to sell cars, and every Ranger we sold was ugly (inside and out), made of cheap materials, and the engine sounded like metal grinding metal.

I have NO problems with S-10's. Better built in my opinion. If I had to have a cheap work truck, I would get one.

Oh yeah, and I really like the Ranger Prerunner package....Oh what is that you say? There is no such thing (No, the "Edge" package does not count)??

Wow.

saddaddy · August 2002

certain people here think that prerunners are sissy trucks. I have been told that in some peoples eyes they aren't even real trucks. Imagine that. IMO, they are one of the smartest ideas borne by truck mfgs. in a long time. I rank the notion right up there with the third doors.

midnight_stang · August 2002

I've been looking at the new Edge/"prerunner" line for a while. If only I can find a dealer willing to special order me a 4x2 Regular cab Edge Ranger with 4.0l and a manual transmission, then you can call me sissy boy all you want. You will just probably be saying it to my tail end...

saddaddy · August 2002

tbunder1 · August 2002

obi one k-knownothing is hilarious. he speaks with such intelligence i can't even get through his messages. it's like he knows all about trucks and is teaching us something with each and every worthwhile post. i wished my 2001 "off-road" "207 HORSE SOHC 4.0" "5-SPD AUTO'D EXT. CAB 4-DOOR" ranger was as tight and built as well as my previous two S10 ZR2's in which the back seal leaked all the oil out on one and the other sat for three days in freezing temps for not starting. i also wished my SOHC 4.0 wouldn't have rattled so hard it broke my steering column right off. if only ford could build them like gm. who knows, if ford still used the original ranger chassis that was born back in '83, it MIGHT be as good as the awesome S10 with re-circulating ball steering and ten speed cable operated caliper feel brakes. but the frame on the S10 that dates back to '82 is the thing that puts the S10 trucks ahead of the ranger and everything else in durability and strength.
if ford would just keep their 207 horse butter smooth SOHC 4.0 out of the ranger and all its technical advancements out of the way, it may outsell the dakota and frontier and maybe someone will show some respect for it. but until it goes to the front in sales, towing capability, power and torque, and price, everyone knows the ranger just can't compete in the compact segment. obi, thanks for the posts. you have taught everyone so much here at edmunds. it's a pleasure to have you post your knowledge. it has enlightened me so much that i await each and every post that starts with OBI.

saddaddy · August 2002

I'll have to go back and dig up the post where you said that you liked your ZR2s better than the Ranger. I distinctly remember your saying that you had no problems with them. What is it? I like em both, but Chevys quality in my mind, shrinks everyday.

01taco · August 2002

I'm surprised there has not been hardly any reference to the Consumer Reports data. I would think that their data would be reliable. I purchased a 2001 Toyota Tacoma Xtra Cab 4wd, V6 w/manual. I compared my choices of the other similar small trucks with the Tacoma based on Consumer Reports. According to them, the Tacoma has a very good reliable record as it ages. It appears that the Fords and Chevys are less reliable as they age. Of course, I know there are people who are on both sides of the spectrum with the issues of quality vs manufacturer. But I think its hard to dispute Consumer Reports data.

saddaddy · August 2002

give us a link to that data. I know that it would be very helpful to us in our never ending struggle to prove the Tacoma's worthiness of its higher pricetag to the Ford and Chevy guys, thanx alot.

sc0rpi0 · August 2002

We've been up and down that alley already.....we cite the 4wheeler mag competition where Tacoma wins, Ranger boys say that "That magazine is a sellout, it's got a big Toyota ad in it". We cite CR, we are told that they don't know jack about trucks.
Although, if I were you, I'd not allow any "awards" influence your decision when buying a vehicle: Trailblazer won a "best truck award" of some kind, and 6 month down the road was stalling and had to be recalled.

tbunder1 · August 2002

really think that the military reads about airplanes in magazines and then buys whatever one they say is the best?
this magazine quote thing here at edmunds doesn't prove anything. it's real world use that matters. and i'd bet that there are a ton more rangers on the road still working than any toyota truck.

01taco- just peruse the toyota tacoma problems board here at edmunds, and then tell me that CR is telling the truth. seems the initial quality and even long term quality isn't all what it's cracked up to be in toyota land. for $2-3000 more at initial investment and still not getting as much equipment on your tacoma, the ranger is the better choice for any buyer. it will go anywhere a tacoma will go and do it for less money. it's as simple as that. plus, it has more power and torque, more towing capability, more doo-dads (abs, security system, cd player, cruise, aluminum wheels, etc) standard.

sad- i never said i liked my ZR2's better, i said i like them and they were stout off-road. but i never said they were as tight or as well built as the ranger. they rattle like crazy. however, they take abuse your trd would never dream of taking, and that's the honest truth. go look under a ZR2, and then look under your trd. the ZR2 has full-size pinnings underneath it everywhere. it is very stout. they just need to refine it. who knows, they may have done that since mine. i had a '97 and a '95. the sonoma won jd powers last year for small truck, so it must be the best right? after all, jd powers is just like CR and we all know what they say is rule.

saddaddy · August 2002

Except for the fact that you are going back on some things you have said - thats old hat. I could care less, I just was trying to get the story straight. I probably just misread some stuff. I like em both a good bit.

And I think it would make as much sense to discount the sales numbers as it does to discount what magazines say. I will, from this point on, blow every problem in the Ranger Problems thread 200% out of proportion just like you. You'll see how much sense it makes. And just remember, what I say is what RULES. Have a good one.

saddaddy · August 2002

Tbunder was exactly right in what he said about the military and airplanes. The military knows what is best and only uses that, right tbunder.

This fact is extremely apparent in the fact that the ARMY is buying Tacomas buy the hundreds to send to special forces in Afghanistan. Thanx for bringing that extremely relevant point to our attention.

Be sure to tell us when any Rangers get outfitted with .50 cal machine gun turrets. Everyone have a look to refresh you memories as to what the military deems the only compact truck worthy of service.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1033245&uid=484006

Jees this is getting easier everyday.

sc0rpi0 · August 2002

I have no idea how military selects their equipment. Well, I do, sort of: number of companies in a field compete for government contract to develop and produce X type of a weapon. The military makes their decision based on the price tag and how good the equipment is, given the specifications.
So no, they don't read CR. Instead, military personnel engages in field testing of prototypes.

So while I don't take CR too seriously, I would pay attention to other magazines. FourWheeler, for one.
And yes, nobody will dispute your statement about "i'd bet that there are a ton more rangers on the road still working than any toyota truck": It is true, but the wrong reasons. Seeing how Ford flooded the market with Rangers, yes, there are more Rangers out there than Tacomas. It's simple numbers. What would be more interesting to see is ratio of units sold say....7 years from now, to units still on the road (and rust buckets don't count). But since we can't get these numbers, we'll just have to say that "Yes, tbunder, you are correct, there are more Rangers on the road".

You think Ford is so much better. I disagree. Seeing the string of "accidents" happening to Ford, one can only wonder: why is it happening? Toyota doesn't make tires for their trucks and cars.
Why is it that when I look at recall info for 2002 Tacoma vs 2002 Ranger (4WD top of the line engine), I see two serious TSBs for Tacoma: off-center steering wheel and a pull to one side (And no, TSB that says "seat belt extender" is not "your seat belts don't work" that you've tried to say before), and for Ranger I see:
timing chain rattle.
fluid leaking from front axle vent.
vacuum leak
shift interlock, inadvertent disabling (whoopsie)
heater core: repeated failures.

This is 2002 models: Both Ranger and Tacoma came off a slight redesign in 2000. Who's got more problems?

obiwankenobi1 · August 2002

He actually got a Ranger that is not falling apart!

What is that? Like 1/50?? Good job, dude.

And by the way, I never said I HATED Ford, just Rangers. Oh, and I don't like you very much because you know about as much as me when it comes to trucks....

NOTHING!

tbunder1 · August 2002

sad- the military uses tacoma's simply for one reason- they have a crew cab option. simple as that. ranger doesn't have this, frontier not as off-road oriented, dakota too big and s10 too low to the ground as the ZR2 isn't offered in crew cab configuration.

scorp- YOU need to look at a current issue of four-wheeler magazine, and not keep pondering on that nearly five year old article (pluto's favorite). the latest offering by toyota tacoma could only muster third place. what gives? it got beat by a dodddddddggggggggeeeeeeee. u proud of that one? but hey, its four-wheeler and what they say goes, right? hilarious.

obi- you're not worth the time. but ill waste a little anyways. it's obvious you know nothing about trucks, but please don't try to hide your own ignorance by trying to spread it onto others who have superior knowledge as compared to you. when you say that gm products are in the same category as the ranger and tacoma, things are real clear where you come from.

scorp, one more thing. you say ford "floods" the market with rangers. this may be true, but why do they do this? easy- because people buy them. is that so hard to understand? if toyota built as many tacomas as ford did rangers, there would be heaps of tacomas sitting around because dealers simply wouldn't be able to sell them.

it's clear who the public chooses year in and year out for their compact pickup needs. the ford ranger. you toyota guys hate this and hate to acknowledge it. it has more power, torque, towing, standard features, options, and it's cheaper. accept it.

midnight_stang · August 2002

You might want to check out the edmunds user ratings on the S-10 and Ranger. For the last 4 years, Ranger is on top, and receives the "Used Car Best Bet" accolade. If you really own a Tacoma, better stick to that comparison. That is the only way you can win in quality arguments.

People say what they want to hear. Anyone making blanket statements should know their folly.

saddaddy · August 2002

Hehe, there is no way to refute the military stuff. They don't use the tacoma b/c of the crew cab option. Heck, that back seat really isn't that big. You think they only buy the airplanes that seat the most people, since you like that analogy so much. Not a chance, buddy. You lost big time on this one and there is no way out of it. The military picked the best truck, the one that they knew could handle the job the best and you know it. Be a man and stop downplaying this fact just b/c it makes a Toyota look good. I would be the first to give the Ranger props if the military used it, but they don't.

saddaddy · August 2002

ONLY because... - for the ONLY reason that... - SOLELY because...

and then he says that they don't use crew cab frontiers b/c they aren't off road oriented and not GMs cuz they are too low.

Sounds to me like you meant to say that they use tacomas for a variety of reasons including the crew cab option. Hehe, I know its tuff to "negativize" this one - its showing, tbunder. And how is a Dakota too big when there is a giant 1980 something Chevy blazer all camoed up in the background of those pics. ROTFLMAO!

sc0rpi0 · August 2002

You know, given enough ads on TV and lower prices, people'll buy nearly anything. VW Bug sold millions of cars, does that make it a good vehicle? No...I wouldn't own one if it was given to me for free. And yes, this year Taco did get beat by Dodge....those Tohico shocks don't stay on trucks for long. Everyone I know runs either Bilsteins or Rancho. We lost this year because testers didn't like "roughness of the ride", well, it was an offroad competition. Big deal.

You know, it's not like Toyota dealers are sitting there thinking "How the heck am I going to get rid of all these Tacomas in my lot?". They sell, and sell well. Toyota achieves their quota for the year. It's a different business plan, not lack of popularity with buyers.

saddaddy · August 2002

away from whatever test Dodge won. Does anyone know if the Dodge tester used in the competition had the 20in" rims on it? Cuz if it did, it just goes to show how little the testers really know. That would prove that they were looking for the prettiest grocery getter that still said 4x4 on the tailgate, and nothing more.

obiwankenobi1 · August 2002

You are right, Ford products are better than GM. Hands down....

Now you do have PROOF that Ford is better, right? Not just articles with peoples opinion, but PROOF, right?

Probably not.

Kirstie_H · August 2002

Let's relax a bit on the toss-down-the-gauntlet style challenges. Since "the best" is usually pretty subjective, I doubt anyone's ever going to be able to come up with concrete proof that will satisfy even the most ardent Ford/GM/Toyota/etc. advocate.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

saddaddy · August 2002

obyone · August 2002

so that they would blend in better among the locals at that time. On the military installations that I've been on over the last year or so, I see ONLY Rangers being used by inspectors, painters, electricians, and other government civil service and military personnel. No Tacomas, S-10s, Mazdas, or any other subcompact truck.

saddaddy · August 2002

and upt-tite colonels around an army base is a far cry from hauling troops and machine guns around afghanistan. D-cabs don't blend in too well with hi-luxes either.

tbunder1 · August 2002

you make me laugh. it seriously sounds to me like you're trying to convince yourself that your truck is so good that the military uses it. as much as i hate to say it, oby has a good point. how many foreign terrorists or any other extremist group are going to be driving around in ford rangers over there in the middle of asia? and are you really comparing space of a DC to a ranger SC? is that fair? you said it yourself- they want the vehicle that can haul the most troops. the DC fits the bill as well as fitting and blending in over there (hell). sure it's a good truck to boot, but pushing it on the military simply cuz everyone knows its the "superior" vehicle on the planet is a little far fetched. maybe not to you who owns one, but to a non-biased non truck owner it's easy to depict this conclusion. (not me)
i highly assume that the military uses just as many fords, gm's, etc as they do foreign vehicles. probably more. how heavy are those big guns anyway? probably max out the DC payload don't you think?

tbunder1 · August 2002

i bought a brand spankin' new jeep liberty sport 4x4 friday night. it's silver with black trim. i can honestly say that this is most perfect vehicle i have ever purchased. the quality of materials and overall tightness is the best i have ever bought. got the dealer to throw in some 30 inch BFG A/T's, five of them. will have them installed monday. i think it will look tough. it is a real fun vehicle to drive. it is very powerful and quick, very roomy, and something fresh. not to mention it has a cable operated t/c. im anxious to see if it is as good off-road as i've read. still a ford man at heart though.

sc0rpi0 · August 2002

The TSB list for Liberty looks long and not very promising, but you're driving it, not me.
I've seen one of them on the trail, it's not bad.
I can honestly say that my Tacoma was the most perfect vehicle I've ever purchased: prior to it I had 2 used cars, and now, with 16K miles, it's still running like new.

saddaddy · August 2002

Did you get the optional grocery bag racks for the back? Dude, how can you even begin to compare it to the rest of the vehicles you have had when you just purchased it? I hope just as much as you that it lasts forever and that it serves you well, but honestly did your Ranger not seem as tight when you drove it off the lot? If it didn't, how have you been defending it all this time. Honestly, though, man, many congrats! I know new vehicles are totally awesome, and I know as well as you that its pretty darn capable off road. Im sure you'll have fun with it. Have a good one. Just for the sake of saying it, everything is just as tight on my tacoma as the day I test drove it, and from here on out, that is what I will expect from a vehicle.

frey44 · August 2002

What do you do for a living ?

saddaddy · August 2002

tbunder1 · August 2002

i know the tsb list is long, but i researched that quite a bit before i bought. i found out that most of the problems the liberty have are mostly on the earlier built vehicles. like the dripping a/c on the inside carpet and tranny problems. it did come with the 7/70K mile powertrain warranty which covers the crucial stuff. a $100 deductible does apply though. and yes, it is more solid than my ranger as the day i drove it home. this has coil suspension and seems to drive nicer over bumps. of course it still has the standard 215 series goodyear street wranglers on it too. might be different when the LT rated BFG's go on today. i am a truck man sad, it's just that when you have a family, you can't always get what you want. the tacoma dc is way too expensive for me, and the rest of the pack just don't satisfy me enough to buy. had ranger made a crew cab, id probably buy one. but i do love this liberty. it's quicker than my ranger even. and yes, i did use the grocery bag hooks saturday night. quite handy if i do say so myself. keeps your groceries from going all over on the way home from the market. you do go to the markey don't you? lol. it's been fun.

ps. i did get a NON lowered liberty. chrysler started lowering them an inch from the factory after a bad article thrashed them for rolling. the lowered ones say 4x4 on the back hatch, mine says it on the rear quarter. nhtsa gives it a good roll-over rating, or just as comparable to many other suv's. it doesn't feel any more tipsy than my previous explorer. did i mention this thing barely stickered over $22K? auto, power everything, keyless entry, cd.

midnight_stang · August 2002

Hope you enjoy it and hopefully you'll let us know how it goes.

tbunder1 · August 2002

i get my new BFG's installed today, they look cool as heck....and then later at home upon closer inspection when i get ready to wash the rig, i notice a spot on the sidewalls. i had the blackwalls put on the outside and i get down to look and i see "BLEM" stamped into the tire (all five) with a big burn mark where evidently the installer at the tire shop tried to burn it out so i wouldn't see. i was ragin' big time. i call the shop and the owner isn't in. supposed to call me back this morning.

thx stang. ill keep you updated.

saddaddy · August 2002

I am glad to hear that you were putting the black sides out. Much better looking in my opinion, and no one does it.

obiwankenobi1 · August 2002

What in the world is wrong with people? Always trying to make extra money. Greedy ba$%@rds!

Obi

Hope you rip them BIG time!

scape2 · August 2002

Nothing changes in this room.
Obi, I have a 1998 Ranger with about 70,000 trouble free miles on it, and had a 93 Ranger with about 106,000 trouble free miles on it.. I have been in this chat room since 1998 when I purchased my Ranger. I never heard the end of it from the Toyota crowd, "its junk", "unreliable" yada, yada, yada... I paid 19,600 for this truck, loaded 4x4, stepside supercab.. Noway could I even touch a Tacoma for under 22K with the same options. So your resale better be higher, Toyota owners pay more.. How do you think Toyota just made record profits?? Hello....
I was going to sell this truck, but have decided to keep it. I now own a Honda Accord, Ford Escape and a Ford Ranger. The Accord has been in the shop 3x since 2000, Escape 0, Ford 0.. Please, someone explain to me how this has happened???

allknowing · August 2002

I guess it makes sense not to spend money on junk like the Escape and the Ranger. The Accord is the only vehicle you own with any resale value and worth keeping up.:)

saddaddy · August 2002

allknowing · August 2002

Another point that I noticed, Scape cuts Toyota for producing less Tacomas that Rangers etc., but admits that Toyota made a record profit. Ford is currently in the red so I guess Ford could learn a thing or two from Toyota.

issisteelman · August 2002

I think that the Liberty is a funny looking little rig and from what I've been told it is marketed toward women. Well, I hope you enjoy your ride. I would never trade a pick up truck for that miniature jeep. How do you plan to haul snow machines, four wheelers, lumber, etc. I guess we know who really uses their trucks on this web site.

Take care and I'll see you in the woods playing with toys for the big boys..........Steelman.

lariat1 · August 2002

Funny you should mention the lack of haul, the last time time I checked the Liberty had more Hp, more torque, and can tow the same amount as a Tacoma.

midnight_stang · August 2002

Some people are desparate, are they not?

I can hear the dueling banjo's now!

tbunder1 · August 2002

put your money where your mouth is. i personally invite you to a duel with my "woman vehicle" off-road. i hate to tell you this, but the liberty is probably more maneuverable off-road than your taco could ever be. it has shorter front and rear overhangs, 8 full inches of wheel travel front and rear, wider track, and it will turn on half a dime. not to mention what's already been pointed out to you like more power, torque, a real transfer case, dana axles, etc.

im not saying it's better off-road, i dont know. i haven't taken it off-road my man. but reading and viewing the actual videos of the liberty on jeeps site taken by car and driver, there isn't many places a liberty can't go. and these videos were taken with the crappy oem "all terrain" tires. i traded mine in on some BFG all-terrains. again, lets go see just how female oriented a liberty is. you make me laugh. it's easy to see whose jealous around here.

ps. true "snowmachiners" call their "snowmachines" snowmobiles- what the manufacturers call them. snowmachines make snow. don't have a four-wheeler. just got a new harley. don't need lumber, just bought a new house. plus, with my seats folded down, i have more room than a DC bed. one more thing, i hate to say it, but my jeep's a-arms are cast iron. they're not off a camry. sorry guys. but it's true. also, the liberty is actually larger, and wider than the cherokee it replaces. so to call it a "mini jeep" just shows how far you're reaching, not to mention your ignorance.

you always say something to the effect of "ill see you in the brush or in the trails". well, the trails you're driving on were probably made by a jeep. and chances are, the trails that YOU so call "trails", are probably a lot deeper than you'll ever know. ever heard of rubicon?

sc0rpi0 · August 2002

Rubicon was not made famous by Liberty. A bunch of TTORA guys went there just over a couple of weeks ago. Looks like they had a blast and held their ground.
Just because it bears a name Jeep does not automatically mean it's the best thing since sliced bread. I've seen Liberty offroad. We had a guy tag along with us one one of the runs. He had a 3" susp lift on, dinky stock tires. He went through a 2-foot step (after stacking 1 foot worth of rocks), tore off the entire corner of his plastic bumper and busted the windshield washer fluid reservour while doing it. He just didn't care....that bumper sure looked like it was made of weak plastic. I've seen Tacos bust up their bumpers: ours hold up.

It is a mini jeep: it's an SUV that is designed to appeal to middle class' needs like grocery getting, soccer-team hauling with great ride comfort and numerous luxury features, while giving people the magic "4x4". Jeep Wrangler you could take places, bang the hell out of it, and then go some more places, and you wouldn't care. Liberty is this thing you buy to keep up with the Joneses to make it look like you offroad. Of course, needless to say that you can't lift it any, because it will look REALLY ridiculous (not to mention dangerous, given its' short wheelbase, tipping over forward or backwards is a piece of cake), you'd be stuck with 30x9.5xR15 tires. It may come from a family of offroaders, but that don't make it one.

issisteelman · August 2002

Ya, what he said.

I'll see you in those hard to reach (and currently very dusty) places in the heart of the great north woods.........Steelman.

midnight_stang · August 2002

I guess if it is not the ultimate off-roading mini truck, it's not worth mentioning. Sure, they may not appeal to you, but practically speaking it will appeal to others. Maybe you will change your tune when you settle down with a woman, and raise a family.

The liberty is in the same niche as the Escape (and Tribute). It's not designed to be an off-roading machine, it's designed to fill the niche of people wanting an SUV, but nothing too big or impractical, or pigeon holed into being a land boat, or minivan. The Liberty is better suited for everyday driving, instead of those occasional off-road romps. It is also in a price range not offered by Toyota. The closest offering? The Rav4, while pales in comparison to the Liberty.

Think outside your box.

Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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