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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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Comments

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    can "offroad" just as well if not better than your beloved Tacoma's. With the shorter wheelbase they can climb better and have a better angle of departure than the Tacoma. I even believe the liberty has a better angle of incline than the Tacoma. I have seen these little utes in action and don't put these down.
    This locker you guys speak so highly of is very limited in where/when it can be used. Toyota has marketed this very well. Most of this is purely for show and macho image. The fact is most of you would not take your $22-24,000 TRD 4x4 V6 automatics into areas where a locker will get its full use. We have been through all this 1000 times.. And, the locker is an OPEN axle when not engaged. This doesn't help you tow anything nor offroad.
    Funny too, same old story with Rangers not able to offroad.. I have taken my 1998 4x4 Ranger into the MT national forest, Tillamook National Forest and MT ST Helens area to the Deserts of Central/Eastern Oregon.. Its done me just fine...
    By the way the resale on my Honda is not that great.. Paid 17K, only worth 13-14K tops now...???
  • frey44frey44 Member Posts: 230
    It even LOOKS feminine. Maybe the German company should put out a limited edition pink version....
    ;-)
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    i think that most of you are stereotyping the liberty very badly. yes it's competitors are the escape, and the.......escape. but just cuz it's a mini suv doesn't mean it isn't "built". look at the thing. dana axles, full skidplates, off-road pkg., locking rear, water deflector on the air intake enabling it to ford water up to it's hood, real tow hooks front and rear, a full spare. the liberty is a mini suv yes, but it is also, imo, a very useable wrangler type vehicle. no it isn't as capable off-road as the wrangler, but it's not far behind. i think some of you should read a few articles. i can say that my liberty is more solid than any vehicle ive been in. the body panels are thick and the doors are bolted on by huge mounts, and not glued. here are some articles just to help you all see it also is a real contender off-road.
    scorpio, i don't know what article you read, but liberty isn't known for it's "great ride", as it has a live axle back there with an off-road suspension. please educate yourself before you blanket the liberty into vue, escape, rav4, etc. territory.

    www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47012/page004.html

    take this for what it's worth, but all of them note liberty's off-road worthiness.(due to edmunds 115 character rule, i couldn't post all links, but just type in "jeep liberty off-road" in your search machine and you can read all day on how good the liberty is off-road) i can't believe you true off-road guys don't recognize true off-road potentiality when you see it. low front and rear overhangs are the start. high ground clearance is good too. power and torque are a must. dana axles are very important. water fording capability very necessary. i could go on. the liberty has all of this, but you all still fail to accept that it is an off-road machine. i think i see some denial in tacoma land. oh, did i mention liberty got five stars in crash tests from NHTSA? stop being so ignorant guys.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    frey- since when did DC become a german company. my jeep was built in toledo, ohio.

    if you want to talk about "SISSY VEHICLES", you better start looking at your tacoma if you even have one. comparing liberty to tacoma, the taco has pint sized a-arms compared to liberty's cast iron offerings. your little tacoma is down 20 horse and 15 lb/ft of torque compared to the liberty V6. liberty has Dana axles compared to your "corporate [non-permissible content removed]" no name axles that i know, never have problems. and comparing tacoma's tin can skidplates to liberty's solid steel mounts just shows where toyota shaves production dollars. i could go on and on, but it's a lost cause. because trying to educate someone like yourself who is so caught up in the "i own a toyota and now im god" thing is a lost cause. hope you document each oil change on that toyota.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    tbunder1,

    Too bad the Liberties ground clearence is insignificant compared to the Tacoma. No comparision there!
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    I do remember the ground clearance of the liberty is 9.6 inches to Tacoma's 10 inches. Big difference there.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Liberty has a long way to prove itself as a "worthy" vehicle to bear Jeep mark. That's all there's to it.

    And Liberty got less than average (M overall) crash test from IIHS. I wouldn't get too crazy about V6 numbers......bigger engines, but more specifically, newer engines, designed by DC while having competitors' numbers on hand. Hows your gas milage, btw? Every review I read says it sucks.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Member Posts: 566
    don't hate on this guy's new ride. That's just mean and disrespectful. Tbunder just got what he needed - point, blank, period. Try to be happy for him. He obviously had his family in mind with the purchase, and sometimes thats the way it has to be.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
  • obiwankenobi1obiwankenobi1 Member Posts: 290
    I'll help him out in one regard:

    The Liberty is the only mini-SUV (out of the Escape, Tribute, CR-V, RAV-4 and even the Rover Freelander) that is RWD based and has a solid rear axle. Take it for what it's worth. I'll take a Liberty anyday over these other for off-roading. I like them.....A lot better than I like Rangers!

    Obi
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Because otherwise Liberty would be a [non-permissible content removed] child in a long family of offroaders: Cherokee and GC are pretty good offroad too. I doubt many people who bought Liberty would ever take it offroad.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    The best off-road vehicles are not factory built, they are custom made. I still do not see why the one function where your vehicle spends the least amount of time has so much emphasis.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    are just two of the reasons "offroad ability" are important. to over 95 percent of owners it means nothing.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    90% or more of your posts attempt to demonstrate that your Ranger 4X4 is just as good as the Tacoma off-road. Does that mean that you have a poor self-image or just a big ego?
    95% of us don't really care either way.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Because when you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different song.
    Of course, that applies mostly to rural areas, but it could have limited application even in urban areas at times of snow/rain etc.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    It sure does not snow often around Dallas.

    There might be ice once a year or so, but off-road ability does not help you there. Besides, off-road prowress does not equate to on-road traction. Sure, 4WD and grippy tires do help, but that suspension lift and great ground clearance will do nothing for you. Besides I'd rather have a limited slip pumpkin over a locker on Ice/Snow/Rain anyway. 150 pounds of sand does more wonders than any off-road package.

    I guess it just comes to a point where you eat, breathe, drink, sleep, and live the off-roading lifestyle, and it becomes all that is important. Enjoy it man, just do not expect the majority to share your ideals.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Sure doesn't snow in Dallas much. But it's not like I stay in Austin, never leave it and wait for that snow to come. I drive to CO, KS and other places that do get snow and nasty weather. Yes, a TRD package is an overkill for bad weather. A 4x4 is certainly good for you when it happens.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    new baby arrived monday morning. hee haw. nothing like a new baby. especially when she's healthy and beautiful. mom doing excellent too. two girls, talk about having a full plate. going tomorrow to get my blem BFG's replaced with the real things. $100 more for the five. blems just had screwed up white letters, but they said blem on the blackwalls i had out. looked like crap. i ALSO WILL take the lib off road. it looks totally awesome with the BFG's. id send a pic, but i dont know how to on this forum. later taters
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
  • smgillessmgilles Member Posts: 252
    On the baby girl...
  • saddaddysaddaddy Member Posts: 566
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    and dirty diapers
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  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Yeh congrats dude. Hopefully she'll grow up with better taste in trucks than her dad though. Did you name her something cool like Tacoma?
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    I notice you said that you put a gallon of gas in the tank to see if the gage was reading correctly so I would assume that you ran the gas tank real low, as a future precaution it is not a good idea to do that since most fuel pumps are lubricated by the fuel they pump when they suck air they tend to prematurely fail, I am not saying that is what happened to your Liberty but it never hurts to be cautious.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    A guy from a Toyota dealership got a word out that 2003 Tacomas are coming out new. Looks like they'll have a 4.0L V6 240hp engine, DC Tacos will have Extracab beds (long ones), Extracabs will come with suicide doors. Toyota has been keeping this secret, it seems, but dealership mechanics are now getting certified to work on new 4.0L engines.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    nah, it had a quarter tank of gas in her when i put more in. i just did this to be cautious. the guys at the service dept. also put in gas. it had a lot of gas in it, enough that it ought had run alright. i think it just went bad.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    What happened to your post telling us about your new vehicle crapping out tbunder?
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    Is this reliable information??
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Came off a guy who just worked at Toy dealership.
    We kept trying to tell him it was 2004, but he insisted it was 2003.
    Well.......new models are coming up either in September of October, can't remember now, so we'll find out for sure then.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    There's this one thing I don't understand: Ranger and Tacoma weight the same. The dimensions are approximately the same. So if you say that Tacoma is tinny....what does that make Ranger? Unless Ford has found a way to build engines and drivetrains out of superlight and superstrong material, I'd say your Ranger is just as tin as our Taco.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    You don't see many stories about the Ranger's bed getting dinged up by loading up an ATV or cooler.

    Base Model Ranger: 3085 lbs
    Base Model Tacoma: 2750 lbs
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    scorpio- the tacoma is very thin in the metal department (even your fellow tacoma'ers concede this). the doors of a tacoma are extremely thin compared to the ranger's thicker more solid doors. go compare the two. if you can't see the difference, you must not want to. the whole truck is that way (frame, axles, bumpers, towhooks, etc). the tacoma looks awesome. especially white TRD's. but the ranger is a more stoutly built vehicle. im not going to go into everything, but we all know the ranger tops the tacoma in every work and power category, not to mention price. looks like it's about 335 lbs. of sheetmetal that separate the two. or it may be the heavier dana axles on the ranger. who knows, but one thing is for certain; the tacoma's doors are so skinny that you can flex the corner sheetmetal bends. not good.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    comparing 4WD versions is bad for your "335 lbs of sheetmetal" arguement:
    V6 Xtracab 4WD Tacoma weights 3515
    V6 Xtracab 4WD Ranger weights 3580

    So........heavier Dana axles? Where exactly does the sheetmetal come in? If they weight the same, and you keep saying that "Ranger is more solidly built", plus all the standard features.....if you add that much weight, Ford had to reduce the load somewhere else. So where is it?
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Seems to me that Toyota would ADD more items to their 4x4 Tacoma's than Ford would take away from their 4x4 Ranger (as opposed to respective 4x2 models). Maybe Ford doesn't need a full 300 extra pounds to transform it's truck into a 4x4.

    Another example of if it's not 4WD, "it's not worth squat."
    Are we talking sheet metal or weight of the 4WD components?

    Per Edmunds:
    Toyota Tacoma prerunner, ext cab, automatic, 2wd:
    3355 lbs.
    Ranger Edge, 3.0l Auto, 2wd Ext Cab,
    3584 lbs.

    P.S. Ford lists the 4x4 supercab at 3707 pounds.

    P.S.S. Anyone seen the new FX-4 Level 2's?
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    stang, what exactly is this?
    scorp- go drive a ranger off-road, then you'll see what i mean by "more solidly built". no comment on the flexing doors i see.
    i doubt power windows, a cd player, and whatever the ranger has that toyota charges extra for add that much weight to a ranger.
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    I would assume the 4.0 V6 in the ranger would weigh more than the tacoma V6, being that it's a larger engine. couldn't this easily account for the difference in weight?
    I'm very skeptical of anecdotal stories about "easily dented beds." Especially when I hear these stories on internet message boards.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Member Posts: 566
    If the weights are that close, then one of the great things about the Ranger has to go out the window. Either bigger frame, thicker panels, or just plain being stronger just isn't gonna work any more. If they were all true, then it would be at least 500 lbs heavier. Take yer pick fellas, but all that stuff won't work anymore. Hehe. And take it EZ on the dented bed stuff, there isn't a Ford S/D within a 100 mile radius of me that hasn't gotten a bed beat to hell by a 4 wheeler. It happens to anyone that uses their truck, period.

    I will say this. Those new FX4s look kinda nice. I mean, the comfy seats and the frills don't make it the off road king that it claims to be, but I like the fact that a compact is out there with some extra stuff. Still needs a locker for that sticker on the side not to be in vain. But thats another story.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    here's what I dug up:
    2002 Ford Ranger Compact Extended Cab Truck
    4dr SuperCab XLT Appearance 2WD Styleside SB (4.0L 6cyl 5A), weight 3313 lbs.

    2002 Toyota Tacoma Compact Extended Cab Truck
    2dr Xtracab PreRunner V6 2WD SB (3.4L 6cyl 4A), weight 3355.

    Are the above two not comparable? The 2 suicide doors on a Ranger don't add any weight to it.

    For a 4WD models:
    2003 Ford Ranger Compact Extended Cab Truck
    4dr SuperCab XLT FX4 Off-Road 4WD Styleside SB (4.0L 6cyl 5M) at 3584 lbs.

    2002 Toyota Tacoma Compact Extended Cab Truck
    2dr Xtracab V6 4WD SB (3.4L 6cyl 5M) at 3515 lbs.

    So......where exactly am I going wrong?
    As for driving a Ranger offroad: we ran into one this weekend. Beater truck, dents everywhere. It seems both trucks are easily damaged when you hit them against rocks.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Your advice to Scorp- "go drive a Ranger off-road, then you'll see what I mean by "more solidly built". No comment on the flexing doors I see".

    I agree with you that the Tacoma has thinner doors etc., however, if Scorp takes your advice he'll pick the Tacoma as it definitely has a much more solid feel off-road. Unless, of course, your opinion of "solidly built" means the truck that sways and squeeks the most.
    My Ford is a 98 and I'll concede that the new ones may be a bit better however.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    The weight off edmunds.com quotes, especially since it lists many of the same models as having the same weight, is hard to bring it down to an strict apple vs apple comparison. Unless someone wants to weigh in every variant, we might want to take the simplest versions of the quotes we have available and run with it. The original quote of mine, of the 2 base models on either side, amounts to around 330 lbs difference. Extended cabs/Xtra cabs, 4wd drivetrains and suspension, doors, automatic transmissions, etc, only add to that amount, not subtract.

    My best conclusions on the data above is that the underlying vehicles are close, but the Ranger is heavier(~330 lbs).

    With all the goodies mentioned above by Scorpio, both vehicles are much more similar in weight, give or take 70-80 pounds depending on how you pick the models.

    What does this prove? Mostly that Tacoma's options (4x4 components, xtra cab, etc) are heavier than the Ranger equivalent.

    Of course Ford fans can say the Ranger is just stronger to begin with, but the Toyota fans will say the Ranger has "weaker" optional equipment.

    Truth is weight has little to do with it. 100 pounds of gold is much weaker than 100 pounds of steel. However how do we compare two steel alloys under 2 different design, manufacturing and building methods?

    Shall we look at the crash statistics/ratings?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Yeah...but from which company? NHTSA or IIHS?

    As for weights: base weights are different because of all the standard features of Ranger. Ever try to lift an ABS controller? It's at least 30 lbs. Piece by piece, the extra weight adds up.

    The crash ratings don't matter much when there isn't any underlying skeletal structure: Saab puts titanium bars (or at least used to) along the doors and body to reinforce them. Does this influence crash tests? Yes. Does the actual body material make their crash tests 5-star? Not really. It's all about whats' underneath.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    According to the insurance organizations, (IIHS) Tacoma and Ranger are about equal (even though I see a lot more red under Tacoma.) Overall it is a tie.

    NHTSA.gov - No contest. 4 star Ranger all the way across, 3 star Tacoma. Oops Sorry, passenger side frontal impact has 4 stars, but the rest is 3 star.

    What is interesting is the Ranger Electric has a 5 star rating.

    As for weights, Dead issue. You can not proove anything, either way. But we do have crash statistics. One tie (IIHS) and one point for Ranger (NHTSA) means what? Crashes are practical applications of rigid/stronger structures, are they not?
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Member Posts: 257
    that FX4-phase 2 or whatever is a bunch of ford crap.
    i see what they are doing, and i cant believe toyota guys didn't see this or at least comment on it. the phase 2 FX4 is just last years FX4, it's just that now they're calling the regular XLT ranger with the off-road pkg. an FX4 now. all the stuff mentioned in the phase 2 is identical to last years FX4 ranger, the original. words like "hardcore" are just marketing ploys to sell. it's just the same as last year. and ive already told you guys that the only real thing the FX4 has over a regular off-road ranger is tires, bilstein shocks, and a rear tow hook. add in the manual t/c if you opt for the stick. why the HECK don't they introduce a darn crew cab and call it a day. so stupid. isn't this convo getting old? jeez, it's been almost a year since ive come on here and it's the same old thing.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Member Posts: 566
    But it does have bucket seats with extra side bolstering, hehe. Is that sonic blue color the same as you had on your truck tbunder? What is the ebony trim stuff they talk about?
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    what "KO" stands for on the BFG tires. that was sorta cool....
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
This discussion has been closed.