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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII
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Comments
allknowing- no, the phase 2 FX4 is the one that supposedly "broke down in the parking lot". i wonder if that person knows how famous his/her unfortunate accident really turned out to be. i don't think anything ever fell apart, it was the torsen lsd that malfunctioned. again, the lsd is more real world usable, thus the reason ford is not going to a locker. a lsd will get people out of 99% of any off-road situation, plus help out on-road w/o being an open t/c like the toyota locker. ill take a lsd anyday towing a boat out of water compared to an open axle like the toyota trd's are in 2hi. who wants to worry about shifting into 4lo just to tow out a boat. oh wait, my friend use to do that when he had a '94 toyota 4x4 4-cylinder. it wouldn't tow the two jet skis out in 2hi. pitiful. my ZR2 (what i had at the time to tow my two skis) would have towed out a cabin cruiser.
Thats all Im sayin on this subject.
My friend this, that... I could do this... You were just complaining about how things were the same one year ago.
whoever- i use to load dirt bikes and atv's all the time in full-size ford trucks (in my MX days). never did i dent any part of the bed, not even driving them into the cab and using it as a stop. a super-duty bed being dented by an atv? whatever. a tacoma bed being dented by a cooler? i'd believe that.
Bundy: show us some proof of your "dented by a cooler" info. I certainly see a lot of TTORA guys running around with chains and coolers in the beds, and they don't seem all dented up.
#524 of 556 Bed by mtngal Jul 16, 2002 (11:36 pm)
There are 2 things I noticed about the bed. The first is that it seems like it is shallower - the sides aren't as tall as our old '88 Nissan hardbody or even the S-15 (though that could be faulty memory - we bought it the first year it came out and only kept it for a couple of years). But what I was referring to is that the metal does dent and scratch much easier. I've never had a bed liner - just shells, campers or nothing on the various pickups I've owned. The Nissan's bed was hardly scratched when we sold it (11 years, 290,000 miles, and at least 5 years use as a courier vehicle after we bought it). The Tacoma already is showing paint scratches from a cooler riding in the back and a dent (not a huge one or anything). I would definitely get a bed liner for it.
It isn't fair to compare it to my last '76 Chevy. That had carried a camper for 50,000 miles before I bought it, and then I used it to haul hay, grain, wood shavings, tack and a horse trailer. I don't think I added much to the collection of scratches and dents it already had, but it looked like what it was - a beat up old farm truck. I sold that one in very good working condition with 125,000 miles on it in '92
scorpio- half the vehicles? do you really think manual FX4's make up half of its production? no way. i would bet that more than 95% of all FX4's have automatics. bring over your trd tacoma, its a manual isn't it? ill have the drivetrain screaming and leaking after an hour of abuse. like i said, it isn't hard; especially on a concrete surface.
As for your "hour of abuse": I'm sure the parking lot accident occured after the owner smoked tires for an hour....yes.....absolutely...there's nothing wrong with Ford.....Ford is perfect....If I recall correctly, the owner gave it a little too much gas in a parking lot and boom, there goes rear axle.
On the other hand: I've seen Tacoma smoke tires (real smoke) for maybe 30 seconds.....he still seems to be driving.
What was the production run of FX4? Like 2000 units. Care to back up your "more than 95% of all FX4s are auto" statement?
Because I tell you:
If 800 recalled units were the manual ones, then it'd at most be 5% of the whole FX4 run last year. 16000 is a whole lot of FX4s not to be seen anywhere.
"If I recall correctly, the owner gave it a little too much gas in a parking lot and boom, there goes rear axle."
LMAO. I'm sure it was only a tiny amount of "little too much" gas, just like so many single vehicle accidents were caused by a dog that ran across the road. It all smacks of personal reconciliation.
You can say what you will the 3rd (4th or 5th) party recollection, but common sense would say he was doing a little more than a "little too much" gas.
The Torsen representative stated in the same forum that the failure only occurs in Peak Torque events. NHTSA says "THE REAR AXLE DIFFERENTIAL CASE COULD FRACTURE UNDER A HIGH TORQUE EVENT SUCH AS WHEN CUSTOMERS ACCELERATE RAPIDLY FROM A STOP OR WHEN A SPINNING TIRE SUDDENLY GAINS TRACTION".
Sure sounds like a little too much gas to me.
Finally what you may have seen first hand may be undeniable truth to your eyes, but any analytical approach will falsify the test by lack of control of the circumstances. Not everything can be submitted to a litmus test. 1096 units recalled, and the best count I've seen was 4 to 8 vehicles accually broke. That sounds like making a mountain out of a molehill.
And since you brought it up, I thought from the first time I laid eyes on one, that the Liberty had some pencil thin lower control arms, they actuall have a 90 deg bend in them don't they, that's not a little weak?
As for blown diffs: maybe it's not a big deal. It's just strange to see an "offroad" truck blow a diff in a parking lot. How much "a little too much gas" is it? You be the judge. Parking lots aren't drag strips.
When the powers that be say it was a peak Torque event, slipping tires that suddenly catch, etc, you would be silly to think it happened as they were just cruising around parking lot. All I can say is your argument based on 3rd person testimony is, well, laughable. Ever play the telephone game? I am sure all parties involved are perfectly unbiased, too.
Anyways I am glad you think that is such a big deal, but quite frankly, that is about the only thing you can say about the Ranger lately. Maybe it is time to bring up the locker debate again?
msg #488 sounds interesting: a whole range of problems, some of which tbunder has accused Toyota of having, like water in the cab. Well, there's an example of a Ranger with water in the cab. #492 is interesting too.....new trucks arent supposed to do that.
Anyway, toyota.com is starting to list 2003 vehicles, Tundra is there already, although without any major updates (except an iForce supercharger available from TRD. Pricey, but very nice), and 4Runner/Tacoma ought to be up there soon. Then we'll start the whole thing again, this time with new Tacoma specs.
Frankly, I really don't think the FX4 diff thing is all that big of a deal either, but don't act all surprised when Taco fans start poking fun at it.
Ok, scoprio, you got us Ford Fans! And I thought water would never ever be found inside the cab of one of our trucks. We also believe that a motor mount would never be installed incorrectly or fail (492).
Too bad Spoog isn't around anymore, he would at least find new material occasionally.
Take care and I'll see you where only the loggers dare to tread..........Steelman.
http://www.jeep.com/liberty/suspension/details.html
also, this article pretty much sums up what ive been saying about the liberty, and what you didn't know about the liberty. yeah, it'll go get groceries, but it will also take them back to camp. hmm, how much ground clearance did you say your tacoma had? hehe
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/46722/article.html
Go on and admit what you got the thing for and be done with it. I defended you when folks made fun of it - and I thought for a little while you were gonna be realistic about it. I don't like em, but I think they are neat vehicles. However, to say that Jeep did not bring them out so that posers would buy it just for the 4x4 on the side is a joke. If they had wanted for folks to get it for its capabilities they would have at least put a solid axle under it, even GCs still have them. You are exactly why they came out with the Liberty and thats all there is to it. Now we are having to pay for your blindness. And you called my truck "not even a real truck," - give me a freakin break. Im tired of listening to this crap. But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. You can just keep posting those links to Jeeps "totally unbiased" website and Ill keep saying exactly this: YOU ARE THE REASON WHY THE LIBERTY SELLS SO WELL. Jeeps marketers are rippin' geniuses. Does it have unibody construction, and, if so, could you explain the pros and cons of having no frame?
"i dont like them, but i think they're neat vehicles". that makes sense my man. go drag race your 4x2. you sound funny mr. no transfer case man. to rip on a liberty when you don't even have a t/c is ludicrous. and what about those iron a -arms? conceding that one?
You can't lift Liberty very well: GC, C and W actually look good lifted with big tires. Liberty looks......well...you'll find out.
"i dont like them, but i think they're neat vehicles". that makes sense my man. go drag race your 4x2. you sound funny mr. no transfer case man. to rip on a liberty when you don't even have a t/c is ludicrous. and what about those iron a -arms? conceding that one?
U hate lifts, isn't that convenient. I hate posers who think they are the best thing since sliced bread and all they have is 30 inch tires, I know a guy that drives a Ranger just like that. And no, Im not conceding anything. You can't prove jack about any A-arms. Find a report of even one breaking. Take that challenge and you might conclude that they are better made than Ford Ranger axles and Liberty fuel pumps. How can anyone sing the praises of a new vehicle when they needed a loaner after a week. Ridiculous, even for you.
Man! That was a good laugh!
There is a thread at the taco board now, that I started. A few guys there wheel with liberties a good bit they say. With lockers they do pretty good, apparently. However, it is a consensus that they need at least 4 inches of lift in order to have enough ground clearance to do anything in the way of hanging with stock tacomas. Whats the number on liberty g/c?
Liberties will walk the dog on anything in their class, probably. But you went too far when saying that they can do everything a tacoma will. Honestly I would be arguing just as hard if you had said the Lib could hang with an FX4, its just wrong.
the Xterra feels extremely tinny. on the other hand, the liberty feels like a sherman tank when closing a door. it is very quiet and the door mounts are huge and bolted to the body. it also is pretty hefty in weight and gets good crash test scores.
Xterra's are all over the place, whereas libs are still kind of a rare sight although they are getting more common.
the Xterra is kind of under-powered, but it does a good job with what it has. otoh, the liberty flat out hauls [non-permissible content removed]. at least as quick as my ranger if not quicker since it has less tranny gears.
lib offers an off-road pkg with real tow hooks and solid steel skidplates under the fuel tank, t/c, and all libs get a solid skidplate under the engine/susp up front.
with some BFG tires, the liberty im assuming is vey hard to beat in tight trails. it's short wheelbase and short overhangs will take it a lot of places other vehicles wouldn't dare.
i compare these two because i like them both. the Xterra is just too old hat for me. the liberty is a very well thought out vehicle, it even has a water deflector in front of the air intake. pretty trick. plus, it has nice hydraulic hood holder uppers and not a cheap bar. my jeep barely stickered over $22K and it has power everything and CD and auto. nothing else can touch that price for it's capability. all i got was the BFG's. and the fifth one hanging back there on the steel jeep rims looks real tough. the nissan is a nice vehicle though. but to get a nice looking one, you have to get the SE model which is at least $26K. a cool Xterra would be the one with just the enthusiast's pkg. it basically has nothing except what an off-road enthusiast would want. manual hubs, no power, steel wheels and stuff like that. you'd have to order that to get it. no nissan dealer will stock such a special vehicle. good luck. go drive both unless you are totally ruling out the jeep. but i highly recommend one.
front susp. clearance between the axles is 10.5.
rear susp. clearance at middle of axle is 8.75.
i have stock sized BFG tires on it. i do believe you don't have much of an advantage if any on your tacoma.
im not saying the lib can do everything a tacoma or ranger, just that they may do better off-road. i would never jump a jeep liberty.
In another Edmunds Forum, the topic diverged a bit, and it was posted:
--------------
"Yes, the rear axle of Tacoma/4Runner/Tundra/Sequoia (all the same size) are not of a 1-ton truck; however, it's wheel bearings, joints, etc. are! (Please RE-read what i wrote.) Axle size of the 4Runner is more than adequate for an SUV it's size. (Just the fact that the 4Runner has the same axle as the Sequoia is pretty impressive!) In addition, the 4Runner also has 4.10 axle ratio...with a "crawl ratio" of 29.5, which is better than most other off-roading SUV in it's class, including the Xterra, Pathfinder, Explorer, and Land Rover Discovery!
The '02 4Runner does NOT need a rear locker. Why? Because it has 4-wheel traction system, similar to ones use on Land Rover Discover, Land Cruiser, etc. It able to provide ONE wheel traction (if the 3 other wheels have no traction). Before 2000, 4Runner HAD the same locker that is found on the Tacoma...but when 2001 were updated with this 4-wheel traction control, the locker became obsolete."
-----------end quote--
My questions:
a. Are the wheel bearings and joints the same size on all Toyota trucks?
b. Is that size (bearings/joints) equavilant to what I'd find on my F250 SuperDuty or F350?
c. Is the 4runner 4x4 system (which has no locker) really better than a locker?
d. If so, does the Tacoma have this superior system as well?
--------------
b- uh, no. use a little common sense here bess. comparing a super-duty to anything toyota builds is just ludicrous.
c- hmmm, good question. i guess if you have at least one wheel spinning if the others don't have any traction, that's a good thing. but it sure sounds like a lsd to me.
d- no. just a locker, or open diff when not ordered with TRD pkg. or locker as a separate option. and when not locked, it's an open diff.
Full-time 4wd is great becuase it's virtually idiot-proof. It's similar to all-wheel drive in that it's always on and you can use it on dry pavement. Part-time 4wd is manually controlled by the driver, and can only be used on slippery surfaces. I'm sure many people would say that full-time 4wd is "superior," but it really depends on what you use the vehicle for. I tend to favor part-time as it's durable, simple, and cheap. I also like that it's controlled by me. I know when the road is slippery; I know when I need the 4wd engaged. I don't need a computer guessing for me. Hope that helps.
it only took eight years for toyota to offer abs standard. hmmm, now that's a big deal i see. an afterthought in ranger land. i understand though, when you guys get something like a sliding window you're ecstatic. a cd player? instantaneously ravenous.
Sliding window? Don't matter...it's nice, but not something worth raving about. CD player? Who cares......I can go and buy one cheaper.
As for ABS: Seeing how Tacoma was a very popular truck with offroader crowd, having ABS only makes life worse. I'm sure someone will rig up a on-off switch soon so people can offroad without ABS getting in a way. But watch out, bundy.....Toyota is catching up onto your "We get this standard, we get that standard"....remember how you went on and on about why ABS was something people just HAD to have in order to survive on the road? Well, it's here now. Pretty soon there'll be 2 suicide doors in the Xtracab Tacoma. Your list of standard equipment over optional equipment on Taco grows thin.
well, i figured SOMEONE who drove a toyota would copy what jeep has already done with the liberty. ie. when an abs equipped liberty is engaged into 4-lo, abs is automatically shut down. too bad toyota didn't think of that on their big bad off-roader.
there's only one.
here, read about the abs defeat.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/45676/page001.html
I didn't know about ABS and 4lo for a simple enough reason: I don't have ABS, and don't care for it.
Thanks, smgilles, for pointing this one out.
well, I figured SOMEONE who praised FX4 would copy what jeep has done with the Wrangler Rubicon: full time LSD/air locker. Now THAT is cool.
Oh and I hope you read what smgilles just posted. You must hereby leave the preverbial foot in your mouth for exactly 16 hours. Nice try. How does that feel? And just so I can get a mental picture, what shoe size do you wear?
Eagle --> a Toyota salesman that frequents the TTORA board gave us the news last week that the additions for 03 would be abs and throttle by wire on v6s.
Scorpio --> You are right how the Tacomas are catching up in the std. equip. category. I can't wait to hear the new excuses when the Taco gets its new engine. Its liable to get really interesting here in the next 12 months or so.
smgilles- got any proof to back up what you said? im just curious. at least i provided a link. i like how you guys just ignore stuff i post about the jeeps. hilarious how you want to discount them, saying they are terrible off-road and have no ground clearance. and then when i post links that state 10.1 inches of GC and what a bull it is off-road, you have no comment as usual.
sad- so if what you say is true about the throttle by wire. does that make the taco better? ill take a nice strong cable any day over a little wire. either way, the ranger has more power and torque than any tacoma and is thousands cheaper with more standard features.
And if you want to read what other Jeep owners think about your Liberty, read here:
Pirate 4x4 forums