Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

plutonious · January 2002

is one of Ford's better vehicles. Perhaps that's because it has enough Mazda in it to make up the difference for the Ford in it.

saddaddy · January 2002

Did you decide to go ahead and sell your truck over ebay or what? I know it was there for awhile, but last I saw, reserve had not been met. Take it EZ, man

kg11 · January 2002

Toyota doesn't have catastrophies??
My '89 4X4 3.0 V6,recalled-head gasket problems.
My '95 3.4 V6,recalled-head gasket problems.
Did Toyota get it right yet?
kip

modvptnl · January 2002

N/M.

plutonious · January 2002

Is the best you can do is come up with a bad head gasket problem on a truck made 13 years ago? I rest my case...

"Did Toyota get it right yet?" Yeah, I would say they got the head gasket thing and a lot of other things right, the way they keep stealing marketshare from the big 3.

midnight_stang · January 2002

Toyota Lug nut problem/

Tacoma and Tundra
Even camry's got problems
Gulf Toyota at it again

So you see, not all vehicles or nameplates are perfect.

Scorpio says "I've said it before..the only way a comparison like this can be done is to have a long-term test, like 10 years, of both trucks, work them the same way, and see who dies first or goes to a mechanic more."

Well since mine is 9 years old, let's hear from someone on the Taco side?

How about the fact that one of the vehicles that tow my race car is a 1967 Ford F-100? With a Ranger badge to boot! Still pulls strong, engine just rebuilt after 220 or so thousand miles... A little rust in the floorboard and bed, and it isn't the prettiest ride, but I think rust isn't an issue older Toyota's need to bring up!

kg11 · January 2002

TWO Toyota trucks ,6 years apart,same problem.Most recent recall for V6 head gasket-1997.The problem spanned 8 years in MY experiance.I havent researched to see if it's a continueing problem.
kip

plutonious · January 2002

No, you're missing the point, and the big picture.

http://www.autooninfo.net/AutoonInfo/PickupRIVs.htm

This shows how different trucks made about a decade ago have fared over the years...

plutonious · January 2002

In all honestly, can't you see the humor in focusing on Toyota recalls for things like towing wiring harnesses and possibly faulty cotter pins in accelerators when there are Explorers rolling over and killing people?

midnight_stang · January 2002

Didn't like the fact that Toyota's Tacoma have bad lug nuts too? Better check yours! Isn't it a 98-99? And since you are in Texas, more than likely it had to be supplied from Gulf Toyota. (?)

I see you ignored that one.

Trailer lights? How about trailer brakes too? How about the line "Tacoma vehicles, due to deficient waterproofing and improper installation location " I thought Fords were only capable of such negligence. Ever hear of trailers that brake automatically if the power gets disconnected? (I.E. In the event the hitch fails, and you have a runaway trailer?) Why would a hitch fail? Because the sticker said the wrong Tow capacity. http://209.58.136.120/recall/a/014/v1102.htm

And forget the Explorer, you obviously are just gleaning the media hype, and ignoring the fact that accident per accident, Explorers have a lower fatality rate vs. competing SUVs. And Explorers have a lower percentage of rollovers than competing SUVs. Just ask for the facts to back it up!

I also see no humor in Explorers rolling over and killing people.

midnight_stang · January 2002

Kiplinger's Picks

Best in Class for 2002

http://carpoint.msn.com/Browse/win_4018597.asp?src=Home&pos=Edit2

Guess who's got the small truck,small SUV, and under $16,000 categories?

kg11 · January 2002

My '47 Willys still runs.My '70 Landcruiser don't.
You're ignoring a decade long problem that could affect YOUR truck.
kip
O.K. I have to admit,I replaced the trans in the Willys

plutonious · January 2002

I REALLY want to reply to your link with the bad Toyota lug nuts. Toyota recalled 7,794 vehicles because of faulty lug nuts according to your link. Did any wheel separation actually occur?

Ford recalled 1.8 MILLION vehicles due to bad lug nuts and had 98 actual wheel separations.

So it takes Ford 230.95 times as long as Toyota to find and correct a problem, and in the meantime 98 vehicles crashed.

plutonious · January 2002

Why don't you quit focusing on things like head gaskets and show me some proof that OVERALL Fords or Chevys are more reliable than Toyota?

Like it or not, Toyota is the BENCHMARK for quality and reliability to which all else is measured, even with some faulty towing wiring harnesses.

kg11 · January 2002

Why don't You quit focusing on "benchmark quality" and address the fact that toyota has very limited offerings.There's nothing to compete with heavy duty trucks or serious off-road vehicles.Landcruiser was my favorite 4X4,but they havent made anything like it in a quarter century.
kip

midnight_stang · January 2002

1.8 million recalled for inspection. Unknown percentage actually with faulty lug nuts. 98 accidents of wheel separation on recalled vehicles. Unknown percentage actually due to faulty lug nuts. (Could just be a grease monkey hand tightening the nuts, and then forgetting to torque them down). Four of the 98 accidents resulted in injuries.

"While 1.7 million vehicle owners will receive recall letters and details about how to get the lug nuts replaced at dealerships, [Ford] expects only a small number of vehicles will experience a problem."

While this is higher than the Toyota lug nuts problem, this does not 'bolster [Toyota's] "Quality is job #1" slogan'. Also since the web site I found this on doesn't contain accident data, it is undetermined how many accidents, if any, this has caused on Tacoma.

It didn't take Ford 230 times as long to find the problem, Ford just produced 230 times more vehicles before the problem was found. But again 0.0054% had an accident. That's one car per 18,367 vehicles. Hardly a problem that occurs over and over, but the problem was found and all possibility of other accidents were eliminated. 0.0002% of the recalled lug nuts caused injuries. There were no deaths at all, but regrettably 4 injuries.

Of course your 1.8 million should be the actual 1.7 million, which lowers the numbers even more.

But in keeping with this Forum, not one Ranger is included in this 1.8 million figure, but 7,794 Tacoma's had faulty lug nuts.

the U.S. EPA had sued Toyota last year, affecting 2.2 million trucks and cars nationwide. EPA had asked for fines up to $60 billion.

OUCH!

saddaddy · January 2002

Since we have clearly gotten off the specific topic of rangers and tacomas, I ask this question: "Can you honestly say that, over the past decade, Ford Motor Co. has consistently produced vehicles that have less problems than Toyota?" (Therein is where the reliability issue lies for me.) Take into account problem per vehicle produced also so that you can't use the lame excuse that Ford simply makes more. It seems to me that they should be much closer to perfect if they make that many more cars and trucks. But maybe not - thats just me. I have no doubt that Ford makes good vehicles, but when compared to Toyota I see no legitimate argument, all biases aside. Sure you can find articles to back up the Ford side of the argument, but think about it - REALLY.

tbunder · January 2002

its still for sale on ebay. two more days i believe. there is a person bidding on it that just lives about 75 miles from me. somewhere in west central iowa. ive noticed that someone else bid on it tonight, and evidently he has a pretty high bid because he outbids everyone right after they place their bid.

ive also got an outright offer from a guy in virginia. he's buying it for his son, and for some reason believes that people in the midwest and southwest take better care of their vehicles than people on the east coast do. he said he just bought a car from arizone for his other son. he claims to have a big truck and a trailer. he is out of the country until the 20th, and im supposed to get back to him when the auction ends. this guy in iowa though, he may want it pretty bad since he is outbidding everyone on a proxy bid. im new to this, so it may get wild at the end.

i honestly do not know what ill get when i do sell the ranger. i drove the two crew cabs, and i don't think there is enough room back there for a toddler and a baby. also, there would be no room for baby stuff. ie. stroller, bags, groceries, etc. i need a 4x4 something or other, so im now thinking of buying a late model nissan xterra. everyone wants one seems like, according to ebay anyways. ive located a couple in MO pretty cheap. 4-runners dont do anything for me. and they are way high.

midnight_stang · January 2002

At least on the stuff I get on there. Someone always tries to bid on the good stuff near that last few seconds.

saddad--->"Can you honestly say that, over the past decade, Ford Motor Co. has consistently produced vehicles that have less problems than Toyota?" Well no, I can't honestly say that. You're not twisting my arm by making that statement either. I was just tired of the same crap from pluto, the 1.7 million lug nuts (or would that be 34 million nuts), the explorer tires with a slice in the tread, Explorer roll-over for Christ sakes. All of which have nothing to do with Ranger.

Plut--->"Stang, just curious...how come Ford's awesome quality control didn't catch those Explorers' slashed tires immediately? Why did so many vehicles make it through the assembly line before - TA DAA!!! QUALITY CONTROL DISCOVERED THE SLASHED TIRES - that it cost $3 billion to fix the tires?" You are misinformed, or just combined two separate events into one. I'd research an issue to find the facts before you even question others about it.

This is Not Ford vs Toyota, but Ranger vs Tacoma. Make a new forum if you wish. Don't expect me to be there.

I like Ford. I do not ever say Ford is God's gift to drivers. Ford has it's problems and Ford knows this. Ford is going to concentrate on fixing this. (See link near start of this forum)

Maybe it's just the fact that I've shown you that Toyota, like all mass producers of products, have some kinks in their armor, and problems with their products too. I get the feeling ya'll can't take it. (Scorpio, Saddaddy, and last but not least Pluto)

What if Toyota had the same recent bad publicity Ford has had? Would everyone jump ship, as you all take it as mission critical?

I'll say it again...Ford has it's problems and Ford knows this. Ford is going to concentrate on fixing this.
And quality will be the priority, even though most domestics are still behind the imports, Ford still produces IMHO the best trucks.
Let me know when toyota produces a truck capable of a 12,000 pound loaded trailer.

I will concede that if you purchase a Tacoma, you are likely to have more trouble free miles with their long-lasting drive train.
I will also concede that I still believe a Ranger is a more cost effective purchase, given it's proven longevity, long list of standard options, and overall value (AKA bang for buck).

Your truck just doesn't fit my wants, needs, budget, expectations, power, interior comfort, or towing capacity. Sorry.

tbunder · January 2002

stang for the ebay info. good solid post as well. i honestly believe that if toyota produced as many vehicles as ford does, they'd find that they would have more problems too.

its kind of like car seats or other baby stuff. if one company handmade specially ordered car seats or high chairs, i highly doubt that you'd have very many problems. however, when you produce billions of them, they tend to get recalled all the time. not saying that toyota hand builds their products, but they certainly do not build the number of vehicles that ford or gm does. is this an excuse? not at all, just that the higher the number of vehicles produced, the higher the problems are going to be. to me this is just common sense.

sc0rpi0 · January 2002

I can take it. But for me, it's the lesser of two evils. I don't like cars, there's nothing on the SUV market that I actually liked, and Tacoma, looking back now, was the best choice I could have made. Sure, I can't tell you how my decision would be influenced if there was a lawsuit against Toyota caused by thread separation. I can still tell you that I would not buy a Ford, or a Chevy, period. Unless Ford and Chevy do something extraordinary, like produce a car/truck/suv that goes without massive recalls in first 6 month, I am not even going to consider them. And Chevrolet would have to work even harder given that I've owned one.
Ford Ranger just doesn't fit my wants and needs. I can afford it, but there is no way I am going to buy it.
As far as "This is not a Ranger problem, this is Explorer problem"...it's Ford problem. When you say "Ranger", I first think "Ford". And automatically, I think "Explorer, Firestone, Escape with 5 recalls in 1st year". I don't think "Hmm......I am feeling lucky, I might just be one of those guys whose Ranger actually runs like it's supposed to", because that's what seems to be happening. For every satisfied Ranger owner, there seems to be unsatisfied one, and the explanation usually is "Oh, you probably got unlucky with your Ranger". When Escape gets 5 recalls in 1st year, what does it say? It depends: optimist will look and say "Ford takes good care of their customers", and pessimist will say "Ford can't even build a car right the first time". I'm going to take a pessimistic view here, because overall company picture is more important for me than a little piece of it, it shows all sides of the story.

sc0rpi0 · January 2002

Do you still think Ford is #1 seeing how you get what....13.5 mpg in the city? Wanna know what I get in my Tacoma? Especially when sticker promised 16-18mpg for a Ranger 4x4 4.0L.

As for mass production production problems: The ratio of problems per 100 vehicles will stay the same throughout the production if the process is followed properly. There is always some problem, and yes, unless you are buying an Isuzu VehiCROSS that's hand-built, you will have irregularities in the build, hence not all vehicles come out perfect. HOwever, increased size of production is not an excuse when your problems per 100 vehicles goes up. Then you have a problem. Stang was right to say that "Ford knows they have a problem, and they are starting to deal with it". Unfortunately, Ford is few years late to deal with it.

plutonious · January 2002

the Toyota Corolla is now the #1 seeling car in the world. It is tremendously reliable, and has something like ZERO recalls and 4 TSBs, I believe (may vary slightly depending on model, but I'm not sure). 25 million Corollas have now been produced.

The Toyota Camry, #1 selling car in America, has also proven to be one of the most reliable cars money can buy.

So the Corolla and Camry prove that mass-produced vehicles can also be extremely reliable.

issisteelman · January 2002

I'm am continually impressed by the Brand loyalty of many Ford owners. Much like the people that post to this web site, I have many Ford owning friends who will only buy Ford no matter what. Some of them have even had bad experiences with Fords but do not care and still only purchase Ford vehicles. That does not seem logical to me, and it is that kind of brand loyalty that keeps Ford's market share so large. I am honestly impressed with Fords marketing techniques. They actually have brand loyal customers that only purchase Ford vehicles, period! I, on the other hand, could care less what make my vehicle is, so long as it is a good quality product. Can anyone explain why some people are so brand loyal and will ignore all facts when purchasing a product? This seems particularly so with Ford, who has a terrible quality record but still keeps brand loyal folks coming back to make purchases (and defending the company like it is the greatest company in the land). Please, help me understand this phenomenon.

PF_Flyer · January 2002

Just a reminder that the News & Views chat is on tonight (5-6pm Pacific/8-9 pm Eastern). Hope you can join us!

Tonight's topic is Imports vs. Domestics: Is there a quality gap?

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

PF Flyer

Host

Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

tbunder · January 2002

not to jump on you, but i think you need to re-check your source. the corolla is a VERY nice little hot rod. i had a loner when my 4-door mercury was having some body work. little cheap car with hardly any options. but it did run hard and felt solid as a rock. however, it is NOT the best selling car in the world. that title belongs to the awesome ford focus. if you want proof, just punch up "best selling car worldwide". it's accolades speak for themselves.

here's one link for you to observe:

http://www.derryjournal.com/fullmotoring.asp?DJID=845

scorpio- last tank in my ranger showed 19 mpg. with a mixture of city/hwy driving. i must have just gotten some bad gas. and the "best" argument i was making was for sales, which i assume you won't argue with. f150 setting sales records for being the best all-time selling vehicle in america, and ranger being #1 in its class for like 15 years straight. i wonder if toyota was #1 before the ranger came along? s10 maybe?

nonetheless, its good to see we're back on topic here, even though it may stray sometimes to toyota vs ford.

plutonious · January 2002

I think brand loyalty and level of expectation go hand in hand. For a specific example, one needs to go no further than look at obyone. I don't know if you're familiar with obyone's plight, but by his own admission his Chevy spends 4 months a year at the dealer for repairs and has qualified for the lemon law. Despite this, obyone remains brand loyal to Chevy because they reimbursed him with rental vehicles. His logic of "the rental vehicles given to me prevented me from putting miles on my Chevy those 4 months" keeps him brand loyal.

What is all boils down to is low expectations. If you're content with experiences like obyone's, or don't mind spending $30K+ on trucks with knocking engines, then it's easy to be brand loyal to companies like Chevy.

plutonious · January 2002

The Focus IS NOT the best selling car in the world. Your article states this, and I quote:

"On the road, Ford Focus sales storm on, with the car - launched in 1998 - enjoying its best-ever sales month in March this year (20,359 sales) and recording its 13th month at the top of the UK sales charts in May. The Ford Focus is also the world's best-selling car, with more than 1.5 million sales worldwide since launch, of which over 300,000 have been in Britain."

This comes straight from Car & Driver's 2003 Toyota Corolla review in their February 2002 issue:

"Toyota's Corolla is the world's top-selling car of all time, with 25 million units sold in 142 countries. Moreover, North America assumed the biggest share of global Corolla production in 2000, when 39 percent of all Corollas built found a home here."

In conclusion, Ford needs to sell 23.5 million more Focuses before it can claim the Focus is the best selling car.

eharri3 · January 2002

Can someone explain to me what makes import owners so blind to the fact that Toyota has never been perfect? That you will have a higher incidence of problems than your competitor when that competitor builds 1/5th-1/6th the number of vehicles you do and builds them for lighter duty? Can someone please make me understand why Toyota owners post all kinds of articles and statistics to indicate their vehicles are superior, and when when domestic owners post articles to the contrary all of a sudden it's "you post a link, I post a link, what does it all prove?" (Guess whose words those are.)Can someone even tell me why it's so important to Toyota owners to preach about Toyota's superioity? Normally the one who mouths off the most has the biggest inferiority complex and the highest level of insecurity.

I Compared Tacomas and Rangers at the Philadelphia autoshow. The Tacoma is not a bad truck. I like the shape of the body. Can't stand that grill though. I was a much bigger fan of the older front end. Don't like the shallow bed or flat seats and unsupportive seats though. I saw the same thing when I compared the Tundra to other full sized trucks. To me that's an indicator of how a truck is expected to be used, the fact that the manufacturer wont even put a decent bed on it. On the Ranger I liked the 6 disk in dash CD changer but wish it also included a tape deck. Lower back support was very good. I like the grill of the 2001 Ranger better in a monochromatic scheme than with chrome.

plutonious · January 2002

"Can someone explain to me what makes import owners so blind to the fact that Toyota has never been perfect?"

Nobody ever said Toyotas have been perfect. But the mountain of published evidence/media sources show the domestics are downright problematic in comparison. Why are YOU so blind you can't accept the facts?

"That you will have a higher incidence of problems than your competitor when that competitor builds 1/5th-1/6th the number of vehicles you do and builds them for lighter duty?"

Funny, is a Corolla "lighter duty" than a Cavalier or Escort? Is a Camry "lighter duty" than a Taurus or Malibu or Grand-Am? Is a Tacoma "lighter duty" than an S-10 or Ranger? Is a Tundra "lighter duty" than a 4.8 Silverado or 4.6 F-150? Is a 4Runner "lighter duty" than a Blazer or Explorer? Get the point yet??? The Toyotas aren't lighter duty, and in many cases (like the Camry and Corolla), Toyota is producing FAR MORE OF THEM than the comparible domestics, yet the Toyotas STILL set the benchmark for quality and reliability.

"Can someone even tell me why it's so important to Toyota owners to preach about Toyota's superioity? Normally the one who mouths off the most has the biggest inferiority complex and the highest level of insecurity."

I find it amusing you don't post such nonsense when a Chevy/Ford/Dodge fan preaches about their superiority. Hypocracy? Toyota fans wouldn't "preach about Toyota's superiority" if they weren't continually challenged by nonsense such as "Toyotas are more reliable because they are light duty and fewer are made."

ochizon · January 2002

I am a college student, and recently bought a small pick up. After much reseach it came down to the ranger and tacoma (used-1996, reg cab). It was close but I ultimately went for the tacoma simply because of the more powerful 4cyl engine. But Im sure I would have been happy in the ranger, too.

Bottom line: They are both good trucks!

eharri3 · January 2002

>>Nobody ever said Toyotas have been perfect. But the mountain of published evidence/media sources show the domestics are downright problematic in comparison. Why are YOU so blind you can't accept the facts?<<<

Whose published evidence? I put very little credibility in 'published evidence' because all publications are run by human beings with biases. Also, Toyota owners seem to become illiterate whenever you show them an article that gives a domestic truck the nod over a Toyota. And the data the publications gather is from drivers with different driving styles and maintenance habits. I can find plenty saying Toyota is tops and plenty saying the Ranger is tops. Only blind lemmings let publications decide what trucks they like for them.

>>>>Funny, is a Corolla "lighter duty" than a Cavalier or Escort? Is a Camry "lighter duty" than a Taurus or Malibu or Grand-Am?<<<

Sorry I thought we were talking about trucks. If you ever read my posts in the foreign vs. domestic thread you'd know I believe different automakers excel in different segments to varying degress. We can discuss cars too if you want, I definitely like the Taurus better than the Camry and the Corolla better than the Cavalier or Escort. I think there's a quality gap there that's been narrowing for years to the point where it's almost gone. Want my other picks for top dog? Well I think the Vette is twice the car the Supra ever was for the same price. I think Huffy makes a better bicycle than Murray. And I prefer JVC head units in my truck and aiwa sound systems for my dorm room. But I thought this was about trucks.

<< Is a Tacoma "lighter duty" than an S-10 or Ranger? <<<<

Smaller bed and smaller engine than either... well I guess you could say that.

>>>>Is a Tundra "lighter duty" than a 4.8 Silverado or 4.6 F-150?<<<

Not really but it's much more so than the 5.3 or 6.0 Silverado or 5.4 F150. Funny, Tundra owners never seem to like to talk about those engines though.

>>> Is a 4Runner "lighter duty" than a Blazer or Explorer? Get the point yet???<<

Well... the new Blazer in line 6 makes someting like 270 hp and a similar amount of torque, while the old explorer could be had with a 5.0 liter V8 and the new Explorer comes with an optional V8 and a bigger standard V6. And the 4Runner, which by the way I think is an awesome truck that I would definitely buy if I had the money, marshals on with a 3.4 liter 188 hp V6. So Id say yes.

<<< The Toyotas aren't lighter duty,<<

Some of the trucks are.

>>>> and in many cases (like the Camry and Corolla), Toyota is producing FAR MORE OF THEM than the comparible domestics, yet the Toyotas STILL set the benchmark for quality and reliability.<<<

Based on what. Oh yeah. Your 'publications'. Sorry, I dont agee. I have my own mind and can choose what I like for myself. I would rather not let a magazine's biases become my own. I know Toyota owners love to be arrogant and act like their vehicles are superior, but I'm going to make a mature, honest observation here. You cannot find an inherently bad truck in the bunch. You can find lemons and you can find trucks marketed to different types of users, but I could honestly drive either truck and be happy because I think they're all quality vehicles. I just love my Ford because of cheap repair costs, trouble free operation, and style. And I will not sit by while someone else acts like I lack intelligence or have low expectations because I drive a Ford. I am a college student. A new vehicle is not an option for me until at I've got at least 100-150 thousand miles on the clock and another 2 years of reliable service. I expect plenty from my truck. It has delivered for 3 years since I got it with 36K on the clock. This is through frequent revving to red line, occasional burnouts, and VERY hard driving. I am confident it will continue to come through. Want a disgrutled truck owner? Talk to my friend who finally junked his 96 Tacoma after thousands of dollars and hours wasted getting his truck fixed. It could happen to anyone.
Buy what you like, not what you are told you are supposed to like.Then get off your high horse and go enjoy driving it.
Ed
95 Ranger
78 thousand miles with oil changes, tires, and 1 temperature gauge.
I would buy another without a second's hesitation.

obyone · January 2002

impaired truck, he sure tosses a lot of crap.

Pluto never explained why he continues to drive that POS one star rated truck. Almost guaranteed serious injury on a side impact. You have to be sadistic to want to drive something like that or just plain st_pid.

eagle63 · January 2002

"TWO Toyota trucks ,6 years apart,same problem.Most recent recall for V6 head gasket-1997.The problem spanned 8 years in MY experiance.I havent researched to see if it's a continueing problem."

-according to the NHTSA site, the tacoma didn't have any recalls in 1997, in fact between 1996 and present it's only had 2. (neither being head-gasket)

plutonious · January 2002

Isn't is strange that obyone, by his own admission, owns a bonafide lemon-law qualified Chevy that spends 4 months a year at the dealer but seeks "vindication" for his plight by brooding in Toyota threads at Edmunds Town Hall?

I hope obyone sticks around in our Toyota threads, however. He provides the ultimate example of why Chevys should be avoided.

plutonious · January 2002

So if you want to believe 2+2=5, despite all the published evidence proving otherwise, you will just keep on believing what you will?

Here's one of those dumb "published evidence" sources run by human beings with bias:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/keepup/b04-383927.htm

Note how the LINCOLN placed very well, yet FORD and GMC are at the bottom of the list. Gee, I thought Ford and Lincoln were pretty much the same thing! What's that tell me? Ford is CAPABLE of making quality vehicles, but often CHOOSES NOT TO.

Is this one of those "biased" sources you can't accept? One that ranks Toyota higher than GMC or Ford, yet places Lincoln higher than Toyota? Explain to me the bias here...I don't see it.

">>>> and in many cases (like the Camry and Corolla), Toyota is producing FAR MORE OF THEM than the comparible domestics, yet the Toyotas STILL set the benchmark for quality and reliability.<<<

Based on what. Oh yeah. Your 'publications'. Sorry, I dont agee."

What's not to agree with? 25 million Corollas have been produced - how many Cavaliers or Sunfires have been produced in comparison? Now you're going to say the industry recognizes Cavaliers and Sunfires as the premier compact car???!!!

Believe what you want, dude. Take solace in your ignorance...

plutonious · January 2002

http://www.autooninfo.net/AutoonInfo/PickupRIVs.htm

The Ranger did quite well, actually. But other Ford and GMC trucks did horrible. Where is the bias?

eharri3 · January 2002

I dont think Toyota owners know any other way to argue than to cite surveys and reliability reports. I say specifically that I put limited credibility in such things, so Pluto hits me with some more. And reiterates what I already agreed with, that the Corolla is one of the premier cars of the compact segment for a good reason.

That does not change my simple advice so I will repeat it. Buy what you like, not what you are told to like, then get off your high horse and go enjoy driving it. I dont expect an arrogant Toyota owner to agree with that tactic though.

plutonious · January 2002

Well, I could quit citing surveys and such and tell you how the past 5 years or so I've put more miles on our work Tahoes, Expediditons and Crown Vics than I have on my Toyota. Then I could tell you all about my crappy experiences with these vehicles, then refer you to our fleet mechanic (who drives a Nissan p/u) and he would corroborate with me.

eharri3 · January 2002

I could leave this board with every Toyota owner still believing my truck is crap and not really care one bit, because I love it and I enjoy driving it and it has served me well. I feel no overwhelming urge to make anyone agree that my truck is better than theirs in any way. I drop in every now and then if the argument gets interesting or if I see a Toyota owner make a particulrly unfounded comment about the 'Toyota benchmark' or inherent domestic inferiority or something like that. But I know Ill leave here still loving my truck and everyone else will do the same. Toyota lovers just seem to feel this compulasion to try to make the rest of us see the light. Like if they post enough TSB's, Offroad magazine articles, and Consumer reports stories, they'll suddenly make the rest of us hate our trucks. Pluto, just because those expiences are yours and they are with a wide variety of vehicles does not make them more than anecdotal. How many did you drive?How many were built? Sure, get your mechanic to trash domestics too. I actually believe you're so desperate that you would actually waste your own time doing that.

IT's kind of sad. I think some of you need to get lives.

kbtoys · January 2002

Not to change the subject but have you seen the 2003 corolla yet. I was at the Detorit auto show and all I have to say is WOW. When this car hits the market it's going to put the focus and civic to shame. I will almost always own a toyota truck but if I where in the market for a cheap new car the corolla would be it.

eharri3 · January 2002

The pre-98 Corolla was a realiable, solid car with no acceleration and only fair handling. People were forced to choose between getting Toyota quality in a small car or getting driving fun in a small car. Now that it's got a bit more pep and a bit more of a fun driving character I think it's an unbeatable combination.

plutonious · January 2002

was crap? Didn't I just post a link showing Lincoln was actually rated higher than Toyota for number of problems in the first 4 years of ownership? Didn't I just post a link which showed the Ranger has fared favorably the past 9 years or so - though the Toyotas did beat it?

Know what's funny? When Chevy/Ford guys call Tundras weak, but neglect to compare similar engines. Know what's even funnier? When the Chev/Ford guys don't want to compare Ranger/S-10s to supercharged Tacomas. Know what's the funniest of all? When people say crap like Toyotas are only reliable because they are light duty and fewer are made.

plutonious · January 2002

I've only seen pictures of the car in February's Car & Driver. It looks like it will be a hit, I agree. Believe it or not, I learned to drive stick on my Dad's 1975 (or was it 1974?) Corolla. It was yellow with the black vinyl interior and had a 4 speed manual. Darn good little car. It was sold about 5 years ago, still running like a Singer sewing machine. The only major work it ever needed was a new head gasket at 240K miles or so.

I don't even want to tell you about our 1985 Plymouth Reliant or my brother's 1990 Ranger. We did have good luck with my sister's Chevy Spectrum and my dad's Oldsmobile 88 though.

eharri3 · January 2002

>>>>Know what's funny? When Chevy/Ford guys call Tundras weak, but neglect to compare similar engines. Know what's even funnier? When the Chev/Ford guys don't want to compare Ranger/S-10s to supercharged Tacomas. Know what's the funniest of all? When people say crap like Toyotas are only reliable because they are light duty and fewer are made<<<

Two questions:Why should the domestics be limited to their smallest engines in any comparison just because Toyota hates cubic inches?

And why should domestic compacts with engines that look exactly the same as they did when they came off the assembly line be compared to a Toyota with an AFTERMARKET supercharger? It's not stock equipment just because the manufacturer decided to warranty it. Fair comparison: Ranger with biggest engine as it came from factory vs. Tacoma with biggest engine as it rolls off the line.

Funny, what you basically just asked me is why dont the Tundra's competitors handicap themselves with their base engines in comparisons to bring them down to it's level and why can't the Tacoma have the unfair advantage of a supercharger. Heck, while we're at it why not throw the Eaton Roots unit from the Lightening on the Ranger 4.0? It would be facotry parts so its fair right?

saddaddy · January 2002

Why toyota quality should be in question because they don't make as many vehicles. I might just be overlooking something simple and very legit here, but I am missing the point nonetheless. I mean if toyota made everything by hand like Roles-Royce or something, then I could understand. But toyota makes a comparable number. Are you just saying that we shouldn't compare the qualities of these vehicles because toyota is at an unfair advantage?

Here is an analogy: It would be just as stupid for Tacoma owners to say "its not fair to say that Rangers are more powerful, cuz they have a bigger engine." Disregarding obvious toyota quality because of less production seems just as lame of an argument as if someone said the above hypthetical quote.

obyone · January 2002

always relate to profitability. Look at Ford's financial situation. So much for volume. Toyota's profitability can be attributed to its value..or what is perceived to be its value to owners who pay a higher amount for greater value.

Pluto, take your crap offline. My email address is posted in my user profile and don't worry cause I won't hack you via your email addy...especially if you use a hotmail or similar account....

plutonious · January 2002

Isn't is strange that obyone, by his own admission, owns a bonafide lemon-law qualified Chevy that spends 4 months a year at the dealer but seeks "vindication" for his plight by brooding in Toyota threads at Edmunds Town Hall?

I hope obyone sticks around in our Toyota threads, however. He provides the ultimate example of why Chevys should be avoided.

eagle63 · January 2002

I agree with you about the engine thing. If vehicle X has 4 available engines, there's nothing wrong with advertising their power based off of the largest engine. That's just common sense.
However, don't be too quick to say that all Toy owners are out on a mission to put down the domestics. There are an abundance of domestic "trolls" here at edmunds who do the exact same thing to the import owners.

plutonious · January 2002

"If vehicle X has 4 available engines, there's nothing wrong with advertising their power based off of the largest engine. That's just common sense."

Well, one of the Tacoma's available engines happens to be the supercharged 3.4 (with a Toyota made supercharger covered under factory warranty) which will run circles around a Ranger 4.0. Can't wait until the Tacoma 3.7 comes out, especially with a supercharger option!

On a closing note, I do find it humorous the the Chevy/Ford boys need a displacement advantage when they compare their trucks to the Tundra's 4.7. Why do they decline comparing Chevy 4.8s and Ford 4.6s to the Tundra anyway?

Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII

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