Honda Element

muffin_man · June 2003

The Golf GTI uses a torsion beam rear suspension a setup very similar to the xB's twist axle, and it's a very sporting car. The suspension alone is rarely what makes or breaks a cars handling. I think you are making too big a deal out of something that you never would have noticed if you hadn't read about it.

As far as acceleration goes:
Edmunds.com - xB - 9.0
Consumerguide.com - E - 8.8 (2wd 5M)
Consumerguide.com - E - 11.4 (AWD 4A)
Honda - E - 9.8 (2wd 5M)

So in reality, the AWD Element is actually slower than the xB. Despite it's bigger engine, it's got over a thousand extra pounds to lug around. And gets 10 less miles to the gallon.

The only reason the element feels like "more car" is because it's a lot bigger and heavier. It carries twice as much cargo, but transports less people, and has less space for those people.

Again, I don't see why someone would buy an Element over the xB (styling notwithstanding) unless they needed to carry more cargo or feel more secure in a larger vehicle (the true curse of the SUV). And the price difference is just a bonus.

mtngal · June 2003

Simply to not to have to shovel my driveway at 4am, and not have to worry about chains. Most of the time in my area they will let you go with just 4x4 or AWD instead of chains. If it is bad enough for 4x4 to require chains then it is bad enough for me to stay home!

ateixeira · June 2003

I sat in an xB at the NY Auto Show. Space utilization is impressive, and it draws attention. The interior is very economy, though, and I hate the center mounted speedos. It's basically a big Echo wagon. The price is its best feature, $14 grand with ABS and stability control.

Saw the crash tests on Dateline, I was disappointed with the Element's performance. Both front and rear passengers were in bad shape. The IIHS simulates a taller SUV or pickup hitting it from the side, unlike NHTSA.

The much lower-to-the-ground Forester earned a Good score, though side chest/head air bags are standard. The Escape did well only with the optional air bags, Poor without them.

Pretty solid argument for getting side air bags. For the most part, the dummies without them suffered near fatal levels of impact, and with them they were generally unharmed.

-juice

muffin_man · June 2003

It's going to be even worse seeing how regular cars do in those tests. But I was surprised the Element did that poorly.

gee35coupe · June 2003

I'm just wierd that way. That's the only reason I haven't owned a recent Maxima. I'm aware of the Golf's suspension. It's been around since they were calling theM Rabbits.

I was all over the Xb until I found out it was a reshaped Echo. As much as I love the Echo, I was hoping for a little more.

And I too hate the center mounted guages.

varmint · June 2003

What's interesting to me is that the Element's structure held up fairly well. Even without the B-pillar, it scored "average", which is as good as it got for most of these vehicles. Many with B-pillars (including the CR-V) scored marginal or poor in theat particular category.

The score that hurt the Element most was the torso score (poor). Honda's side airbags should improve that.

Muffinman - I agree on many points. The Scion is a good little buggy. The engine may be a tiny little screamer, but the weight advantage over the Element is huge. The content levels are very comprehensive for such an inexpensive vehicle.

I dunno about faster, though. MT clocked a 2wd 5 speed at 8.1 seconds. While the AWD models are slower, I expect that the Element will end up the drag-strip champ.

jim_loves_cars · June 2003

I saw an orange Element yesterday on the way home with some chrome bits on it. It looked fantastic. I have always thought orange is a vehicle color the owner will one day regret, but it looked natural on the Element. Very sharp.

The truck was parked on top of a wooded mountain where mountain bikers park their vehicles while they ride. It looked like it belonged there.

-jim

gee35coupe · June 2003

I was gonna buy one the other day but the salesman thought he was selling water in the desert. I'll wait til the end of the year.

jim_loves_cars · June 2003

because their products actually sell themselves. Element, Odyssey, Pilot, CRV, Accord, s2000; all of them desireable enough to stay above invoice and in some cases at MSRP. When we bought my wife's Odyssey in 2001 we had to pay MSRP and wait two months! I've read here (Juice I think) that Odys are now selling a little below MSRP. Waiting for the Element should help a bit on the price.

-jim

gee35coupe · June 2003

The AWD 5 speeds aren't even available yet. I'm gonna give it a little time. I'm in no hurry.

muffin_man · June 2003

gee35 - Lots of cars share platforms, reshaping is not a fair word. Have you at least taken a test drive?

varmint - hard to find much info on 0-60 tests for these cars online. I need to go through my magazines. But I think that the AWD and the xB are going to be pretty close. I would not want to drive either in automatic.

gee35coupe · June 2003

But the two things I don't like about the Echo go carried over into the Scions. The center intsruments and the rear suspension. The engine in the Echo is a gem though. I just can't mentally stand not having IRS. That's just me.

I drove a couple of Echos. One from D.C to Atlanta. I handled the hills on I-81 great. It was nowhere the penalty box that a car that small would make you think. And the stereo ROCKED.

ateixeira · June 2003

Shorter cars without side air bags will do very poorly. It'll be interesting to see how many manufacturers rush side air bags to market now that this test is receiving a lot of publicity.

Maybe Honda will make side air bags available on more models, maybe even standard.

-juice

elementalcase7 · June 2003

Follow-up on adding Keyless Entry. It was totally easy. It took me all of 20 minutes; only because I was a bit nervous/cautious, and also took a while to find the appropriate location to hang the electronic module.

If I could do it; anybody could.

G

hppypaul · June 2003

I drove a green AWD, EX with 5spd and side airbags tonite. While not a barn burner there's plenty of torque and pickup to get on the highway and up to speed. Around town it's just fine. I loved the stick, clutch is like butter, real easy to shift and the stick is in just the right spot. Overall, this is the vehicle for me and it's just a couple of weeks til my orange one comes in. Not much dealing on the E, but they made up for it on my trade so I will go for it.

gee35coupe · June 2003

Can't wait to get my hands on one. I think I'm getting orange too.

mtngal · June 2003

Have you also test driven a FWD, 5 speed? How much difference was there between the two? I liked the FWD that I test drove, and wondered if the AWD was similar as far as low end grunt. It sounds like the clutch is the same.

I saw a green one on the freeway this evening and it looks really nice. My husband thought so too, as long as he doesn't have to wear BDUs or other OD green clothes again. I still haven't seen a blue one.

I'm not too concerned with numbers and which car gets to 60 first (especially if there are only hundredths of a second separating them). All I'm concerned with is will it get me on the freeway safely, will it climb up the mountain I live on, get out of my driveway in winter and will it be reliable for a 200,000 plus miles. If it can be easily cleaned up after a muddy wet dog, that's a definite plus.

gee35coupe · June 2003

In normal Atlanta freeway traffic. It seemed to like 80 mph just fine. Just about as fast as I'll probably go in this thing. Well maybe 100 but that's it.

anonymousposts · June 2003

I can vouch that even with the automatic the Element was no slouch. Plenty of torque and a smooth-shifting automatic soften the blow of the AWD + weight + automatic.

hppypaul · June 2003

I havent' been able to find a FWD EX version with a 5spd to try out. I think Honda is really pusing the AWD for the obvious reasons. I thought twice about whether I really needed it, but for the $$$ it just seems to make sense. Esp with the winter we had in the northeast last year.

mtngal · June 2003

You must be getting all the AWD and we (west coast) are getting all of the FWD. The dealer I went to didn't have an AWD. I really want to buy something with AWD - it makes a huge difference when we have our occasional dumps of snow.

gee35coupe · June 2003

And because it's there. No particular need for it.

shellymeister2 · June 2003

I regularly pass by 2 local Honda Dealers on Long Island NY, and both seem to have an unusually large number of unsold Elements in their lots. Now, I am aware that Elements seem to be selling well across the USA, and Honda is meeting or exceeding its sales goals. Which makes it especially puzzling why each dealer has between 16-18 Elements (most are EX 4WD) on their respective lots. Any ideas ?

anonymousposts · June 2003

The Element is not going to sell well in some places. It's too different for some areas.
They could also be getting more inventory. Dealers here always have a few Elements but they are not the same ones we saw the week before. And are you sure they are the same? Honda only has 5-6 different colors for the Element so it's very possible they are selling old and getting new in. But if they are still the same old Elements I know where to go buy mine. Atlanta dealers won't budge off of MSRP. LI isn't THAT far away.....

rockymtelement · June 2003

Hi mtngal. Just got back from my week long trip through Eastern CO, Nebraska, and Iowa. The Element was very comfortable for the 14 hour drive out to Eastern Iowa from central Colorado. I would recommend this vehicle for road trips. On the way back, I did encounter some heavy winds through Nebraska and Eastern Colorado. I noticed slightly more movement in the vehicle than most other vehicles I've owned. It would not deter me from recommending the vehicle.

The seats in the Element are perfect for long trips. I found they provided ample support.

My wife, daughter, and I and all of our belongings for a week fit in the Element nicely. I had extra room as well.

Got a rock chip on the windshield coming back

. Luckily it was on the lower black part of the windshield on the passenger side, so can't even tell.

Well, gotta go clean the bugs of the Element. Bye

stever · June 2003

You know about the glue businesses that "fix" those for $20 or $30? My insurance company pays for them for free (no deductible) because it's so much cheaper than replacing the windshield. Chips tend to spread into cracks.

Steve, Host

scejas · June 2003

I'm looking to buy an Element this upcoming weekend and I have a question for you element gurus...

I was looking at the 2WD or 4WD EX model. Has anyone done any towing with this vehicle? I am planning on getting a wave runner in the near future and I was wondering if it could handle it.

anonymousposts · June 2003

Element towing capacity is 1500lbs.

aquaswimmer · June 2003

Well I've been interested in the Element for over a year now but was waiting to see the 5spd AWD when events forced my hand.

On a road trip I hit a dip and fragged the oilpan on my 95 Infiniti Q45, but did not find out about the damage to the pan until the next day when my engine siezed up. I was quoted 4k to drop in a used engine so I said forget it! The next day I was Element shopping.

Color was tough...I really like the satin silver exterior but I prefer the darker(and blue-free) interior of the shoreline, orange etc..

Thought about shoreline but I'm biased against anything in the beige/champagne family so silver it was.

My local dealer had just what I wanted: Satin Silver 5spd EX 2wd. I would have strongly considered the AWD 5spd but it's not available in LA yet and I really don't need AWD. I go skiing a couple of times a year and the roads are usually clear anyway.

If you are going back and forth between the auto and 5spd, really consider the 5spd. It's one of the slickest. smoothest shifting manual trannies I've ever driven. The gear ratios are perfectly matched to the torquey 2.4. It really ups the fun quotient of the little E.

An observation concerning 2wd traction: The other night I had 4 people in my E and I was driving up a steep hill up towards the Sunset strip in Hollywood under dry conditions. I was getting a ton of wheel slip every time I had to start again. I guess with a heavy load any front wheel driver would be at a disadvantage going up a steep hill but that incident had me wishing I had AWD. In wet or icy conditions forget it..I would not have made it up that hill.

So my local dealer had what I wanted...and they were selling me so hard I could not believe it..I walked to think it over and I'm glad I did.

The next day I called the internet dept of a few other dealers in the area just to compare and the first one I got on the phone said he could get me the car I wanted for 17,900.

Feeling a little committed to the local dealer(Honda of Santa Monica) whom I had been seeing since the E first came out in December and who had given me numerous test drives, I asked if they could match that. I would have preferred to buy from the local dealer but they would not deal.

Worse, instead of a simple no they gave me the runaround for hours! Finally when it was clear that they were trying to get more money out of me I went to the farther dealer (Airport Marina Honda) and picked up my E.

I love this thing! Everyone seems to give positive feedback on this little SUV. I have a swim/lifeguard business and I'm sort of the swim instructor to the stars here in LA so I drive this thing up the driveways of the rich and famous and everyone seems to think it's the coolest thing around.

Whew, sorry for long post but thinking about the Element gets me excited.

anonymousposts · June 2003

We love the Element too but no Atlanta dealers have an EX 5-speed 2WDs much less a EX 5-speed 4WD. And they aren't willing to deal at all.

mtngal · June 2003

aquaswimmer - Thanks for the report on the FWD - when I test drove one I was in Santa Clarita and it didn't seem to have any problems getting up the hill the car dealers there allow you to drive. But since I really do want to have the option of driving something other than the Wrangler in winter, I'll wait for the AWD. And I guess I'll try Bakersfield instead of LA (haven't looked that direction yet, even though it is actually closer than Santa Clarita for me).

rockymtelement - thanks for the trip report! Also glad that it isn't as bad as I thought it might be in wind. I don't mind a certain amount of feeling the wind (didn't mind driving a '76 van) but sometimes I get quite white knuckled with the Wrangler. As long as it is better than that, it should be OK for us.

goinstag · June 2003

I'm in San Francisco and have had my 2WD 5-spd Element for about a month. We have a few hills here and I haven't had any traction problems on hills here since adapting to the torque. I had a few slips right after buying the car, but no problems since then; I haven't had any squealing on hills with either 3 other passengers or just one other person. I think it's just adapting to the drivetrain (it sure is peppier than my last car). Occaisionally I do manage to chirp the tires when taking a turn in 2nd, but that's kinda fun.

tomguiness · June 2003

got in the car and bam! there it was, a 4 inch (originally) crack in the windshield. I wasn't hit or anything ( that I know of). Just wondering if anyone else may have had a mysterious crack in the windshield . By the way the crack is now 3 days old and 16 inches long!

meinrad · June 2003

Another forum I frequent has had numerous reports of cracked windshields.

Whether it is all coincidence or an actual problem is up to you to decide I guess.

missadrienne · June 2003

I've been reasearching the Element & the PT Cruiser. My husband loves the Element (which most guys would perfer out of the 2) and I like either. The thing is I don't know if Honda has fixed any quirks out of their first generation of production. The PT's on the other hand has been around. I've very particial to Honda's considering I drive an 85 and I've had it for 10 years. I just don't know.. Help??

anonymousposts · June 2003

The Element appears to be doing very well. It's not a complicated vehicle for Honda to build.

As for the windshield, we had a RAV4 which had a similarly vertical windshield and we put 2 windshields in it over a 3 year period. One happened the same way. Went to the bank one morning, no cracks. Came home. Left for dinner and there was a 6" crack in the windshield.

wait4guff · June 2003

i have noticed that most to all of you posters here on this site are extremely happy with your element but on other sites, i am seeing posts filled with all kinds of complaints from dash noise rattling to cracking windshields...just curious which site to believe...

wait4guff · June 2003

i was also curious about the sunroof in the rear...i have a '00 Xterra and the fliptop sunroof is a noisy son of a B(*&%$#!!!
don't want the same xperience with the element, especially since it is in the back and i will never ever use it. Give me a heads up on if the sunroof is of any value or any trouble...thoughts please...Peace out.

babyarm

dogmom2 · June 2003

There is a TSB for the cracked windshield. Do a search and see if you can find info on it on Google. I have seen this mentioned on another forum.

ropedart · June 2003

Had an Element for 4 months and there's nothing like it. Everytime I drive by a CRV or Xterra or XL7 or Escape or Vue or Vibe or Land Rover or Outlander I just glad I didn't buy one of those. They're fine cars but they just seem boring and characterless. If I'm bored I won't take care of it.

After 6 months all the problems should have surfaced by now. There was windshield cracking problem caused by some metal bump that has to be ground off. The drivers seat can start to rock a bit and needs new bushings. That's the main ones but I don't have any problems at all. If any rattles start I know where to look. The accessories are expensive so smart people got aftermarket or went to the online discount houses.

stever · June 2003

From the NHTSA:

link (pdf file)

I like the ball peen hammer illustration :-)

Steve, Host

geepers · June 2003

I couldn't resist any more and stopped by a Honda dealer for an up close look at the Element.

Anyway, do those plastic panels on the oustide hold up? It seems to me they would scratch and gouge very easily. And has anyone actually tried to spend a night sleeping in the "beds"? I think it would be better not to advertise that one.

Seems like a good auto for my lifestyle, three big often wet, muddy dogs, lots of hiking and a frequent need to haul large items.

Mtngal, I'll bet the Element won't whip into a parking space like a Wrangler.

ateixeira · June 2003

CR-V had the seat track issue too, I'm surprised Honda let that happen twice, it's unlike them.

Parking it should be a breeze.

-juice

stever · June 2003

This article focuses on the Scion, but tries to explain some marketing trends:

Look who's driving design (Christian Science Monitor)

Steve, Host

rockymtelement · June 2003

Did you drive the Element when you visited the showroom? Parking is a piece of cake. The only other car I can compare it to is the first car I drove. . . a 1978 Mazda GLC subcompact.

The turning radius is impressive. The salesman I drove my Element with for the first time told me to pull over to a parking lot and do a u-turn. I thought, big deal, but when I actually did it. . .cool!

The only problem is now I'm am tempted to do u-turns more often. : 0

abetterlife · June 2003

Yes, I have spent a night sleeping on the "bed". It's livable, but not something you would want to repeat. Sitting the back of the back seat in the upright position and laying down the front seat to create a giant lounge chair is pretty cool though, with panoramic view that can't be matched (windows all around and sunroof above).

If you really want to doze in the Element (as I do) you lift up one or two of the back seats and use the nice flat floor with a pad. I'm over 6 feet tall and it works fine for me.

By the way I thought the back sunroof kind of pointless until I watched the stars while camping in my Element. It is a dream come true and an experience few get to experience.

I am completely out of the Element demographic. I'm a middle aged divorced male and I think this vehicle is the best I have ever owned. Interestingly, my dealer told me that most of his Element buyers are closer to my age than 26.

It's fun, cocky, entirely practical, esay to drive and park and has design touches that are completely remarkable. Designing of the rear tailgate for secondary use as a covered bench comes to mind. Finally someone designed a car from the inside out, rather than vice versa.

Today as I was I cleaning the floors with a wet towel (YES YES YES) I wondered "why did it take a manufacturer so long to realize that people actually use cars for stuff that will get them dirty".

Honda took a big gamble on this one. I hope they win big time, they sure deserve it.

stever · June 2003

Seeing the stars while lying down is cool. Our tent has one of those plastic windows in the roof. And since I had lasik, I can actually wake up in the middle of the night and see the stars without having to climb out of the tent. Although I usually wake up in the middle of the night because I need to climb out of the tent <g>.

The big question, Abetterlife, is - can you reach the radio with your toes when you're sleeping in the Element?

Steve, Host

abetterlife · June 2003

Steve, nope I can't reach the radio with my toes. But I can easily reach the remote that controls my Delphi XM Satellite Radio, which moves from my house to my Element with ease, thanks to the Element's MP3 input (btw folks, the MP3 jack basically works with anything that can output to a mini jack). MP3 jack makes it sound "younger" I guess :-)

BTW: I'm glad they designed the Element for 26 year olds. If they would have designed it for my age group, they wouldn't have put in that kick butt 270 watt stereo system with subwoofer. Probably think we all listen to Frank Sinatra instead of Devo, Led Zeppelin, the (early) B52s and Yellowman. That killer stereo (and AC which they conveniently leave off the DX) is definately worth the price of admission to the EX version.

Now my Element beefs. No way to turn off the "key in ignition when door open" beeper. That means you can't open the doors and play the stereo or run accessories without listening to that obnoxious beeper. Makes no sense at all. Should be put on a one minute timer. Or maybe I'm missing something.

Passenger door doesn't unlock when driver unlocks door with key, even though they are power door locks. What gives with that besides motivating you to buy remote unlocking accessory, which should have come with EX anyway. And why no power lock switch on passenger side?

The battery is the tiniest thing I have ever seen. Doesn't look like it can last very long running accessories. Heck it hardly looks big enough to run a flashlight :-) This type of vehicle should have a beefy extra heavy duty battery to run your stuff, including that stereo, for hours on end.

Last, but not least. The radiator is WAY too exposed to road hazards. I can't believe Honda didn't simply put a screen in the big air hole in the lower front that direct air (and rocks) right into the radiator. Heck, I'd even buy one if they even sold an aftermarket one. Mud flaps and side steps I can do without, radiator protection I need.

The radiator is just a few inches off the ground and is totally exposed to everything the road can throw at it. When I looked at it (after reading a post in this forum) I said "What in the world are they thinking. This is not like Honda at all, they'll get a lot of unhappy buyers from this."

Honda needs to fix this immediately.

I'm gonna figure out a way to screen it off. I've looked for aftermarket solutions and haven't found any as yet. A ridiculous oversite in an otherwise excellent design.

ateixeira · June 2003

I bet the demographics are all over the place. But me too, I've seen mostly older folks driving them. My guess is empty nesters that don't use the back seat that often but want the versatility offered.

There was talk about the same issue with the CR-V, an exposed radiator, that is. My Miata is the same way - pretty wide open. Aftermarket vendors have stepped in, you can get all kinds of screens for it.

Or, make your own, they use alumunum screening.

-juice

tomguiness · June 2003

Thanks to all those who responded, in another message board there was an ongoing list of fixes to other common problems.

Honda Element

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