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Honda Element

1535456585993

Comments

  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    Although the Scion interior is not washable, I find it much more passenger friendly compared to the Element. Check it out in person and you'll know what I mean.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    5 seatbelts, is probably what you're referring to.

    -juice
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    5 seatbelts are nice to have, what I'm referring to is the ease of passenger entry/exit, as well as the height of the rear seating in the Scion xB. Although the Element can be the perfect vehicle for some people, it's a major hassle for rear seat passengers. When passengers finally get in, the rear seats in the Element are uncomfortably low.

    I think the Element is best suited for people who are transporting either pets or infants, dependent on the driver to let them in/out of the vehicle. My kids (who are not very young) wanted nothing to do with the Element after checking it out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Element is optimized for cargo carrying.

    For families, the most impractical aspect is the fact that front passengers have to remove their seat belts for rear passengers to get out. That's a nuisance if you use your Element to shuttle your kids around, i.e. every family in the world.

    Singles, DINKs, and empty nesters are buying these, I'd bet on that.

    -juice
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    atexiera, you can add married couples with new kids (I call us OINKs - One Income, New Kid) to your list of people buying the Element. I was only going to test drive it on Saturday, but they made me such a ridiculous offer, that I went ahead and bought it. Got a 4WD EX auto. for $18,907 (freight included). The only thing I added was keyless entry. As was expected, I didn't get what I wanted for the MINI (sorry hppypaul), but the fact that they gave me the Element for so little made up for it. Timing seems to have been everything. It was the last day of the month and the '04s are going to be out next month. Lucky me.

    Funny thing about the Element is that when I first saw it a while ago, I hated it. It slowly grew on me, and after driving it I really love this car. For the first time in my life, I had to buy based on practicality, as opposed to fun factor (i.e. the MINI), and found that I got a little of the fun factor with the overwhelming practicality of the Element.

    As for the Scion xB, I am in Maryland and don't expect to see any Scions on the road around here until at least mid-2004. While I was in no hurry to buy, I wasn't going to pass up on a deal just to wait on an unknown, and unproven, car. Also, not only are we toting around an infant, but also a 75-lb golden retriever. The Element is really a no-brainer. Getting our daughter in and out of the back is almost too easy.

    So Christmas came early for us this year ...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does seem like a great price. Wouldn't a CR-V EX auto cost about $22 grand?

    I'm in MD, too. What color, so I'll know if I see you?

    Actually these are all over the place, very popular around here.

    -juice
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    I think you're right about the CR-V prices. Not even the same ballpark, really.

    And you're also right that these things are everywhere. We went with the orange. Once I got home with it, I realized that there are three others just like it on our block alone. I think there's another just a few blocks away. So much for being unique!
  • hppypaulhppypaul Member Posts: 43
    CRCOXE,

    Best of luck with your new E. I have the exact same one (color too) except with the 5spd instead of the auto.
    I think you will find that as the engine breaks in you can have a lot of fun. Mine is over 5K now and i zip around just like I had a MINI except that the handling isn't quite as tight. Enjoy.
  • scottdudescottdude Member Posts: 177
    Has anyone on this board seen a 2004 E yet? Here it is December and it seems like every other auto company has all their 04's out, but no E's.

    (By the way, I found the answer elsewhere to my question about the 04 Fiji blue... it's a brighter shade than the 03 blue. The 04 Civic coupe has it.)
  • bigkahunaflbigkahunafl Member Posts: 128
    I was at my dealer Saturday and was told it could be January before we actually see any.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The orange stands out. If you see a green Forester or a white Miata waving, it's not just a crazy driver.

    Actually, it is a crazy driver. :o)

    -juice
  • parkyparky Member Posts: 20
    Purchased '03, ORANGE(this color just works w/ this car), ex awd auto. Added keyless, mats, armrest, window visors myself. Basically the offers are around list price right now! Why wait for 04's. You can save and install the options yourself.
    We live in CT.Our e has only 700 miles, and my 4'11" wife loves it. She drove her mothers corrola the other day and felt closterphobic. I waited after the 500 mi before I opened it up(per manual). Getting out in traffic is not a problem. We both were tired of manual shifting!You can still shift an automatic! The clam doors work excellent for the baby seat!!
    Also, this vehicle has low commpression, so a supercharger can always be added for go go power!
    The aftermarket mods for imports are incredible!
    Can not wait to try it in the snow this weekend!!
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    Ditto, ditto, and ditto. I echo all of it, except I can't vouch for the merging in and out of traffic since I'm still at the beginning of the break-in period. You're right, the orange color just works.

    Even here in Baltimore, we're expecting some snow/slush/rain tonight or tomorrow, so we'll see how well the AWD works.

    As for a supercharger, I would be reluctant to strap one on the Element, simply because you would most likely void the warranty. Then again, a hyped-up E would be kinda fun ...
  • jt_nyjt_ny Member Posts: 1
    I got 18,800 for an 03 EX AWD in orange from several dealers. Sound like a good deal? Thinking about adding foglights. Anything else worth adding? Thks.
  • bigkahunaflbigkahunafl Member Posts: 128
    I'm not a huge fan of fog lights. But I'm considering side steps.
  • jeffray46jeffray46 Member Posts: 13
    What's the deal on the 2003 EX AWD Auto? I was offered $100 over invoice so roughly $19,300. Were you talking Manual? Or are you seeing prices under invoice. I suspect the latter since first offers from dealers are not usually their best.

    JH in NY
  • jeffray46jeffray46 Member Posts: 13
    Look forward to your report on the AWD performance in the aftermath of this storm.

    Jeff in NY
  • hppypaulhppypaul Member Posts: 43
    Just came in from romping around in my 5spd ex awd E. Even with the stock all season tires I had no trouble going up a fairly steep hill with 4" of fresh powder on it.
    Very good road manners in the snow. Go for it!!
  • scottdudescottdude Member Posts: 177
    I posted here last week asking if anyone has seen an '04 yet. I also sent an email to my four local Honda dealers asking if they have '04's yet and if not, when will they get them. Not one responded to me. That's right... not one. I'm not sure what to make of this. Either they have so many '03's left that their bosses forbid them from mentioning the '04's, or they're so busy they don't need to respond to a prospective customers email.

    By the way, the reason I want an '04 is for the new blue. I don't like the current blue. However, I do agree with others about the orange and how the E is probably the only car this looks good on.
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    Here in MD, we really didn't get as much snow as you got in NY or in my old stomping ground, New England (go Pats!). I did get a chance to get out in it though and was very impressed with the AWD. I found a few parking lots that were empty enough to play around a little. I tried my best to swing the rear end around and found it really required some work. As long as you're not driving like an idiot, the AWD keeps the car true and on course. I'm very impressed to say the least ... and the orange looks good even under a layer of road salt.

    BTW - At this point, I would think the '03s should be going for invoice at the most. With the '04s out in the next few weeks (at least that's what the dealer told me), the dealer's allotment will depend largely on how many '03s they have left. I got mine under invoice without much negotiation. I would think a little prodding here and there would produce similar results.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Crcoxe - In case you're missing that New England snow...

    image
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Is that from a plow or did it fall off the roof??
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    That's pretty much the real depth. Virgin snow covered my license plate. Just for kicks, I pulled forward about 2-3 feet into the snow. That's why the top edge looks like it's been plowed. The pic was taken after I'd backed away from the snow.

    My driveway was plowed Saturday morning. That pic was taken on Sunday before it was plowed a second time. There was probably 18-20 in my driveway when that photo was snapped. I'm sure some of it was drift.

    Overall, the storm dumped about 20-26 inches on us. After my driveway was cleared a second time, I ventured out to grab some supplies. On my way back, I stopped by at a friend's house. His road had not been plowed. They had about 12-14" on the road, but a few big pick-ups or SUVs had cleared tracks and levelled the deepest stuff. I had to venture out of the tracks twice, but didn't get stuck.

    Leaving the neighborhood, I took a different path and got hung up while going around a turn. Turns out, the last plow to go through had left a berm across the intersection. It was hidden by the drifting show. The combination of me slowing down to make the turn and the densely-packed snow stopped me in my tracks. I was high-centered and had to dig out.

    Leaving the scene, I was able to get through the same 12-14" stuff without tracks to help. I was plowing snow with the bumper and fish tailing quite a bit. Had I slowed down or stopped, I'd probably have gotten stuck again.

    I wasn't the only one, though. I also passed a stranded Outback, and also a Sportage and Cherokee. I'm not sure about the last two. I think that one stopped to help the other and got stuck himself. I didn't stop to investigate, but both were shovelling. They were on a sidestreet where I didn't need to go.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It looked plowed hence the question. I'm north of Boston and got about 18". The Odyssey with snows got my DW around just fine. About 3 minutes after I had cleared the driveway and van on Saturday AM she popped out and said "Thanks, I'll be at the mall."
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We only got about 6" in the NW suburbs of DC. Good enough to take the kids sleddind.

    Lots of black ice out there so be careful folks.

    -juice
  • parkyparky Member Posts: 20
    E w/ awd auto in CT. Steep 1/2 mile hill, but plowed surface w/ 2" to 3" covering minimal if no wheelspin. 1A. Going down same hill in 1st or 2nd gear no issues 2. 7" unplowed parking lot no issues w traction(fun factor high). 3. Roads w/ 2 to 6" the backend gets light around corners, and bottom of vehicle drags a little over some drifts. I drove upto the ski area where there 1/2 mile driveway was 5-7" unplowed w no issues.I think having the auto slightly underpowered helps in snow conditions.Wheelspin is minimal in most conditions. However, at a stop sign throw it in 2nd, and get ready to counter steer under heavy throttle of course. Overall a lot of fun in the snow.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I wish I could have taken kids sledding. Instead, I had to dig a path from the house to the edge of the woods where my "kids" do their business.

    Greyhounds are sissies.

    Parky - We had a small group of CR-Vs and a Pilot go snow trekking in Connecticut this weekend. I think they were in New Milford. If you like playing in the snow, you might want to hook up them next time.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks for your Edmunds Maintenance Guide question over in Prices Paid - a fix is being rolled out.

    Steve, Host
  • parkyparky Member Posts: 20
    I feel your pain w/ the sissie greyhounds! Mine goes bug nuts in the snow. I use my snow blower to cut a path in the yard, so I can walk and he can do his business(leashed most of the time). I am glad he only stays in the path though. There was a herd of deer out yesterday(unleashed), and he tried to go after them. But he is a wuss, so he did not venture off the path I cut.
    I'll keep the snow excursions crew in mind for next time. I think I'll get studded tires for my xr400 for the next snow. Either way I will have fun.
  • jeffray46jeffray46 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the info about AWD performance and the intelligence on current pricing at or below invoice. Will go out this week to buy 03 EX AWD Auto for my parents. It should go at or under invoice as their opening offer was $100 over invoice and as the dealer has a few still in inventory to clear.
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    With inspiration from some of the innovations happening in the minivan segement (and that market is supposed to be stagnant!?), I'll take a stretched Element with 6 seats (2+2+2) with the two rear pairs folding into the floor. If Honda needs to locate the gas tank under the front seats like the Jazz/Fit, then so be it. Give me back the "B" pillar and fit regular doors (or even sliders) and keep all the "scrubbability" of the current "E" interior. This would be a far more useful vehicle than all the Latitude/Stream, Wish, Grandis etc. etc. mini-minivans out there.
    Wanna build it for me, Honda? Anyone else? (maybe Nissan's upcoming small crossover concept will offer some clues.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I think you're on your own, Wheelz. My suggestion would be to find a 98 Ody and do the interior yourself.
  • bigkahunaflbigkahunafl Member Posts: 128
    The FWD Auto Element is nearly perfect the way it is - just wish the seats were a little more comfortable.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you guys see the new JDM Odyssey from the Tokyo Show? Very sleek.

    Odyssey will get bigger, so I think Honda will have a slot in their lineup for a smaller 7 seater.

    -juice
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    I like the Element....it's just that it's 4 passenger capacity + limo-like back seat & the resultant smaller rear cargo area don't work too well for a family guy. I know the family market wasn't the original intention for the "E" anyway;
    hence the request for an "E"-like vehicle with a bit more passenger/luggage capacity. I'm not talking "maxi-van" here, just a little stretch.
    Keep the standard "E" for singles, empty-nester's etc.
    (& don't suggest the CR-V....I wouldn't want to give up the "E"'s washable interior and superior hatch/tailgate arrangement)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Juice - I've seen quite a few pictures. In fact, someone took pictures of one while it was in the US for a photo shoot in a California city. I like the front and the interior, but I'm not a big fan of the back.

    Don't expect any real news about the US spec Ody. Honda won't even be showing it's latest unique feature at the autoshows.

    Wheelz - I didn't mean to come across like I was telling you to take a hike. =)

    I just think you're best bet is to find a vehicle that you like and have the interior modified with plastic sheeting. I know one owner who put professional looking carpets in his E. I'm sure you could do a rubber floor in some other vehicle.

    Bone stock is not your only option!
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Hey, no offence taken, Varmint!
    Anyway, while modifying an existing vehicle is one solution, don't you think the Element (or Element-type features) are the start of a trend?
    Honda has been pretty successful with what initially appeared to be a fairly risky vehicle for them. Certainly dog owners and couples with young kids love the easy to clean interior. I seem to remember a Chrysler (or was it Nissan) exec saying that in future interiors, the trend would be away from carpeting. I remember raising this issue in the "How to make minivan's more appealing" forum in the Van section...at least as an option, it would be nice if both minivan and suv makers offered an interior with rubberized flooring and neoprene seat covers, for example. If they can offer various cloth and leather options, surely a family or pet-friendly option would be doable as well. Anyway, a new vehicle purchase is a few years off for us yet, so something along the lines I'm looking for may yet materialize.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I heard that they'll be ultra-secretive about the next Odyssey. Should be very interesting.

    The mininvan market has suddenly become hyper-competitive. The Odyssey's magic 3rd row made it a market leader, but they've since fallen behind, check out the things is now lacks vs. competitors:

    * hidden door tracks
    * 2nd row windows that go down
    * AWD option
    * split fold 3rd row
    * disappearing 2nd row
    * stability control
    * side-curtain air bags

    Hard to believe. I helped my cousin buy an Odyssey about a year ago and it was the clear segment leader. Have you seen the DCX vans' new seating? Brilliant.

    I hope this type of "features race" hits the small SUV segment. Wouldn't that be great? If you think about it, they're all basically similar, with a few unique quirks here and there. Element stands out mostly for its styling, for instance. CR-V has the picnic table. Forester and Vue offer performance models.

    But there hasn't been the explosion that has occured in the minivan segment, not even close. This class progresses very slowly in comparison.

    Just my 2 cents' worth.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The Ody was released in 1999. Any vehicle in it's last year of production is falling behind. That's normal market progression.

    I think the Ody's success was more than just seat-related. The engine, doors on both sides, road manners, and value were all part of the package.

    I'd rather not see a feature race in the small SUV segment. All the features in the Sienna bring the price into the $40K range! Mini-suvs used to cost $16-20K, now we've got the RAV4 and Liberty with MSRPs closer to $30K. All these features complicate the manufacturing process, making them more expensive to produce and at greater risk for reliability issues.

    For my part: If you want to offer a luxury or sport vehicle... build a luxury or sport vehicle. Don't fluff up a basic product.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "I think the Ody's success was more than just seat-related. The engine, doors on both sides, road manners, and value were all part of the package."

    Don't forget that we frustrated Accord owners that wanted a mini-van had to leave the Honda fold before MY99. I wonder how many customers Honda lost because of the lack of a real mini-van? I know conquest sales are a big deal to the mfrs but retaining customers is much easier.

    Back on topic - has anyone had luck painting the cladding?
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    I gotta say I agree with varmint on this. I'd rather not see a "features race" in the mini-SUV segment. The whole idea of the mini-SUV was to allow buyers in the $15K-$25K price range the ability to get an SUV in the first place. That's why we're all here, isn't it? As varmint says, if you load up the Liberty or the RAV-4 with options, you are closing in on $30K. Might as well step up and get a Murano for that price (standard features abound, even on the base model). Honda already has the Pilot and the CR-V, each of which could be offered with features that are now unique to the Element (washable interior, etc.). Consumers could get the best of both worlds without disturbing the whole persona of the Element.

    As for painting the cladding, well, not sure why you would try in the first place. For starters, you would probably have to repaint the whole car just to get the color to match. Also, since it is plastic, I think you can be reasonably sure that within a couple of years the paint will wear differently than it does on the sheet metal. Something tells me it just wouldn't look quite right. I know there are a lot of people out there that don't like how the cladding looks. Painting it may not be the best solution long term. Perhaps a monotone color scheme could be an option on future models???

    OK, so that was more like 4 cents.
  • 2004_element2004_element Member Posts: 13
    HondaCars.com
    has updated their web pages to include the 2004.

    I'm curious as to why the
    Facts Sheet doesn't include the new LX trim level.

    However, the
    Element Page has a Javascript pop up which explains the new LX trim level. (i.e. LX is DX plus air cond and stereo systems)
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Juice.....come to think of it, isn't there a "Backpack" edition of the Forester in Japan with neoprene seats and a wash or wipeable cargo compartment? I think Nissan's X-Trail is similar in this regard. Sure would be a nice option on any kind of utility vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True that, varm, what I'm saying is that the rate of innovation in the minivan segment has really heated up in the last year or so. From 1999 to 2002 not as much happened.

    Prices will settle down after a while. Toyota tends to offer incentives, so I think they built in a little of that. Locally, fitzmall has 18 in stock and 11 of them are under $30k already. That's not much more than the old one cost.

    Pressure like that improves the base product substantially, some times without increasing the price significantly.

    wheelz4: yes, Japan has all kinds of special models. They've had turbos since day one (1998), and now have the Backpack model plus a Crossover Sport model that is lowered and sportier.

    Any how, perhaps Acura could do a version of the CR-V with some innovations. Not everyone wants a vehicle as big as the Pilot/MDX.

    What about the Element? Dunno, what about a stretch LWB version? Or an open SUT type version? Let's see how the Pilot SUT does first, I guess.

    -juice
  • hal9001hal9001 Member Posts: 28
    Well, those of you who live in the northeastern parts of the country, how did your Elements hold up in heavy snow and ice??? Also, any comments on OEM tires and gas mileage would be appreciated.
    I'm probably moving to Minnesota next year and I'm debating a Subaru Impreza TS vs Element. Any thoughts on that comparison???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those are two very different vehicles.

    If you like the TS ($16k), I'd strongly suggest you step up to an Outback Sport ($17k street price). It's much better equipped and the price difference is small, under a grand most of the time.

    The OBS is smaller, more of a 5 door hatch than a wagon. It's pretty sporty, 55 series V-rated tires on 16" rims, AWD, ABS, etc.

    Element is a lot bigger, mostly a lot taller, although it only seats 4 it'll haul a lot more cargo. It's fun in a different way, and will draw a lot more attention.

    OBS is more like the Matrix and Protege5. Element kind of doesn't have any peers, some have compared it to the Scion xB, which I think you should also consider. That little wagon has stability control and comes well equipped for $14k.

    Drive 'em and let us know what type of driving feel you prefer, they are IMO substantially different.

    -juice
  • crcoxecrcoxe Member Posts: 72
    ... though I think juice is right - they really are completely different cars. I supppose your decision will come down to what you need/want the car for. If you're just looking for something to get you through harsh Minnesota winters, the Subie might just be your car. That is, of course, if you don't mind the bland styling. My limited experience with the Element's AWD (one day with about 6" or so of snow/slush) is that it is great. I have no complaints at all. Then again, Subaru has proven itself over and over and over again with its AWD or 4WD drivetrains. Unless you go with a truck, you really can't beat Subaru's performance in that aspect.

    I like the "uniqueness" of the Element. People will stop and strike up conversations about the car, which can be fun unless you're holding up traffic. I also like the size and practical nature of the E. Drive em both - I don't think you can go wrong either way.

    Oh, and EPA mpg on the Element is around 21-25, which soulds fairly accurate to me. Highway mileage is a little better than that.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I guess I was thinking that you meant features, as in content. Regardless, I'm still going to fight with you. =)

    The mini-suv segment is probably the least formula-oriented segment in the USA. We've got uni-bodies and body on frame vehicles. We've got I4s competing directly with V6s. We've got hatchback-like vehicles (RAV4 and Vitara). We've got wagon-like vehicles (Forester and Outlander). We've got van-like vehicles (Element and some might count the Aztek).

    In the world of minivans, we have short wheelbase models (112") and long wheelbase models (118-120").

    Minivans have some fancy seating configurations, but so do the small SUVs. Seats can be removed, folded up against the sides, slid fore and aft for cargo or passenger space, folded into beds, and the Hondas even have the minivan pass-through.

    Minivans have creative storage nooks, but so do the small SUVs. There are picnic tables, waterproof wheel wells, folding organizers built into the cargo floor, flat-backed front seats, built-in first aid kits, drink coolers, and revolutionary roof racks.

    There are just as many luxury small SUVs as there are luxury vans. There are more sporty small SUVs than sporty vans. There's even a long wheelbase small SUV with seating for seven.

    Looking at the big picture, I just don't see a lack of innovation in the segment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I expect nothing less than a good fight from you. :o)

    Let's face it, seating arrangements in most SUVs are downright clumsy compared to vans, which have far better packaging even with AWD.

    Expedition's 3rd row you can't even reach from the back, it's pathetic. That's the only SUV I've tried that has a seat as comfy as the vans. High end models have power fold only because they NEED it, LOL.

    Element is unique, but the folding seat still create blind spots. Removing them is a pain, that doesn't count. The last-place reject minivans do that.

    maybe you should just get a van, juice

    Touche!

    I'd like to see a through-the-road hybrid AWD system. Power the rear wheels with the battery, so no driveshaft is needed down the center. That'll regain some space. Then make the seats fold. Maybe the whole flat floor could be a little higher, I dunno. Maybe look at a runflat option to regain space claimed by the spare. Just some thoughts.

    ---

    Look at the Outback Sport this way - Saab will sell a clone of it, with the same 2.5l engine, for $25 grand. That makes the OBS at $17k a crazy bargain.

    -juice
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