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Since your wife wants an automatic anyways why not keep your Accord and buy an Odyssey/Element/Sienna/etc as a replacement for your Outback? Unless you need the AWD that is.
I must say that although all these trucks had their charms, I did appreciate the handling of my Accord after the test drives.
At this point I will try the Accord for a while when the child arrives later this year and see if he Accord with a stick is a problem. If it works ok, I may just keep the Accord till we outgrow the Subaru and then get a Pilot or Odyssey. If I have an immediate need for another automatic car, I might consider getting an Element.
These are my observations after 3 back to back test drives:
Element – a good around town automatic with good hauling capabilities. A good practical second family car with some fun thrown in.
Likes:
- styling
- rugged and versatile interior
- good space for driver and passengers
- great stereo
- iPod connector
- Fun
- Price
- Lots of useable space for the money
- Tight turning radius
- Fun colors – orange and green. I like the black dash best.
- Automatic is not that bad
- A relaxed driver
Dislikes
- louder engine
- a little under powered
- Interior is lower quality than Accord
Odyssey – a good car for a long trip
Likes:
- Huge interior space
- smooth ride
- powerful engine
- flexible interior
- refined
- Flexible seating
- Great car for long trip
- A car you would keep till it wore out
Dislikes:
- A little frumpy
- Not so easy to park
- A car I would like to have access to but not drive every day
Pilot – Awesome truck with power and style but do you want an SUV?
Likes:
- great smooth and quiet ride
- Neat interior details
- Powerful
- Great exhaust note under acceleration
- Flexible interior
- Not quite as large as Odyssey
Dislikes:
- Most expensive
- SUV image
- Not bad on gas but not great
If not, think about it this way - they are redundant.
I have a Miata and a Forester, perfect complement to each other, serving completely different purposes.
So if your Outback is a good trip car, the Element might make a good city car. You might even get away with a FWD model since you have an AWD in your fleet. Very cost effective fleet if you ask me.
The Ody would be a good long distance cruiser, and the Subie would still give you traction in snow and a little more manueverability in town. Perhaps the best combination of all-around utility for your fleet.
A Pilot/Outback fleet might be a little redundant, both serve similar purposes. If you need to seat 7, the Ody is probably better, cheaper, and more fuel efficient. And you'd have 2 AWD vehicles, which might be overkill.
In that case a Pilot/Accord fleet would make more sense to me. But I bet you end up putting more miles on the Accord.
-juice
That's our philosophy. We currently have:
2003 Civic Si hatch: It's the commuter of the group. Good power, decent gas mileage, and small.
2004 Honda Accord EX-L manual: This is the car we drive if one of us is going somewhere with the baby or if we are all three together for a short trip.
2004 Honda Odyssey: This is our vehicle of choice when we are all together. We use it for trips to the grocery store, longer trips around town, and road trips.
1994 Lexus LS400: Okay, I'm not really sure what purpose this car serves even though I ask my husband on a daily basis. We've put 10,000 miles on it in 3 years and it's currently in the basement with a very intricate spider web near the exhaust. He says it will become a family hauler when we can flip the car seat to forward-facing.
Or the car to cart around your mother-in-law, maybe.
-juice
If I am looking for an automatic everyone can drive and ride height for loading children - an Element is a good bet.
A Subaru Forester in XT trim would be fun, but it seems a shame not to get the XT with a stick. And the XT tricked out is getting into Pilot territory price wise.
A v6 Accord with an automatic does not give me the ride height but they are a good value and with a 6, it would have more suds than the Element on the highway. Sort of a TL on the cheap.
Element is a good choice though for fun, price and function.
Prices have come down dramatically from a year ago, so look again if you really liked it. You can get a 2004 starting at about $22k.
You could always trade in your Outback on a new Outback XT (turbo), that automatic has 5 ratios and manual controls. Pretty fun and practical all-around vehicle. It costs a lot more than the F-XT.
Element is the bargain of the bunch, no doubt, if it meets your needs.
-juice
Element or CR-V for chores, winter driving, and trips with the kids (greyhounds).
S2000 for 3 season driving. I'd take a Miata if I only fit into one. (I almost bit on a '91 CRX Si last month.)
I'm very tempted to replace my '99 CR-V with a used (2yr old) Element. That swap would allow me to keep saving for my S2K and still give me an upgrade on my utility vehicle. Used Elements can be had relatively cheap. My CR-V now has 99,000 miles on it. It's at that point where you either sell it, or drive it into the ground.
There ain't no such thang out here in the cuntry. Polk County, GA isn't exactly the mecca for fine arts.
Course you can do that with any Element! LOL
I don't think my dream fleet would include an Element, because I routinely carry 5 people (2 kids plus the nanny), but I have imagined what it would be like to own the following fleet:
Green Honda Element (para-military {family} duties)
Yellow Subaru Baja (for our beach house)
Orange Scion xB (wife's efficient commuter)
That's like a freak show in my driveway!
Can you imagine how much attention that would get? Kids would congregate here after school.
-juice
tires on the stock wheels is non-existent. I live in Minnesota and have heard very bad things about the OEM tires (tire rack reviews). Any feedback would be appreciated.
Plus Two is pretty extreme, you sure 17"s won't cut it?
If you do get 18"s, make sure you get a light rim, it might have to be forged to be light and strong enough for a vehicle like the Element.
-juice
My yard took 35 yards of mulch the other year. I'd need a whole lot more than an Element of CR-V for that chore.
I borrow Bob Holland's 5'x8' trailer and tow it with my Subie. That gets me 3 yards per load (as much as any full size pickup can fit), usually I do 2 loads and our play ground has a nice, thick layer of wood chips to pad the ground for the kids.
You must have a dump truck deliver the stuff!
Bob's daughter has a new CR-V now, but no tow hitch. He has an Explorer for that. One of his neighbors has a small trailer and he's seen him tow it with a CR-V.
Who says you need a V6? ;-)
-juice
The Legacy GT is awesome - even with auto instead of stick. Drives flat through corners. Feels very tight and powerful. Wonderful interior. But like our current Outback, I do not really fit! :-(
I do fit better in the Forester.
Here is what I figured out - a telescoping steering wheel makes me fit in a car a whole lot better! So far, only Sedans seem to have telescoping wheels. Some SUVs and vans fit better than others do to upright seating position.
My Accord has it and I can pul the wheel past my knees and have room to maneuver my feet down there. The Mazda 6 has a telescoping wheel and I fit a whole lot better in it. But that car was weak, not as fun to drive and had a cheap interior. Out of the running.
For fun, on the way home, I sat in a Honda Element. It also lacks a tilt wheel BUT the upright position you sit in makes it work for me.
My goal is to explore family vehicles for when our family expands by 1. I'd like automatic and more ride height. And I don't want to spend a ton since I'll need resources for future family needs.
Bigger options considered now include:
Honda Element - $21k
Honda Odyssey - $29k
Honda Pilot - $30k
Nissan Murano - $30k
If I just want to go with a car that fits with an automatic:
Honda V6 Accord Sedan with Auto (with our without NAV) - $24 - 26k
Acura TSX with auto - $27k
and if I want to get fancy:
Honda Accord Hybrid - $30k
Acura TL - $32k
Infinity G35 - 32k
So . . . the Element appeals since it undercuts everything by $3 - 11k.
Maybe current Accord will not be a problem but Element seems best solution so far for the money. An Ody or Pilot might be a better long term purchase and eliminates the need to change cars in a few years when we add a second child to the family.
Someone in the Outback threads manged to modify the seat track slightly. They got it so it would slide back an extra inch or so. You could ask them how they did it, it didn't seem complicated.
The Mazda6 doesn't quite make 200 lb-ft of torque, but more importantly it peaks at sky-high rpm. The Element and Legacy GT peak a full 2000 rpm sooner. That's the equivalent of waiting forever for your peak serving of torque.
Given you fit in the Forester, why didn't it make your short list? Even the XT turbo runs about $23-24k with automatic, $25k for a Limited with leather and that huge moonroof. 235 lb-ft of torque and a low 3600 rpm, too.
-juice
The Forester should be on the list too. It is a bit better. I loved the stick Forester and thought it was a riot. The 4-speed auto though was just not the same at all, so I sort of precluded it. I do like all the standard equipment you get in the Forester like heated seats and mirrors.
The Element also has a 4 speed auto but it has a more utilitarian interior and feels like a "deal". Just like my Accord EX-Leather felt like a "deal" at $21.5k.
A Legacy with telescoping wheel or a Forester with 5 speed auto would come closer to my ideal.
The Element is not ideal in some ways either - going faster than 70 on the highway felt a little dicey and it lacks creature comforts found in the Accord or Subaru. But at a lower price, it seems a good compromise.
Another sedan to consider that I will have to try is an Acura TSX with automatic. It might have a little better handling than an Accord V6.
The more I think about, with the goal state being 2 kids, I do think the next car should be a minivan or Pilot.
Ideal for me - a Pilot and an Acura TL auto for the "fleet" for the family.
Cheapest Fleet - keep what I have.
Cheapest fleet with new cars - Accord or Civic 4 cylinder auto and Element.
I guess I am revealing my Honda bias here!
Element's low price does make it a low-risk proposition. It would be easy to sell for most of what you paid even if you do change your mind.
OTOH, if a van is in your future you can get a deal on the last of the 2004 Odys. I've seen LXs for $22k, and an EX with the DVD player for $25k, a screaming bargain. My cousin paid that much for her plain LX just two years ago!
-juice
Just picked up a Element LX hot off the truck for $17,182, love it so far. So Im transfering from the Toyota Avalon forum, well met
I want to get a light trailer hitch, I heard U-Haul makes a good one for the Element?
EMPTY FOGLIGHT HOLES:
I also stuck little concave mirrors where the foglights normally go, lol, they look pretty good. 3 bucks at Kraken Auto parts.
LOOKS:
Most people I've asked dont like the looks at first, haha. But it seems to grow on people. I have always liked the looks, even when it was a concept car.
My Sister said this: It looks like a car that isn't quite finished being built yet". I thought that was a funny description of the fenders.
I got the Saphire blue model.
The stock wheels are pretty dang ugly, I was even considering hubcaps... theres no way i can spend 600-700 bucks on wheels. Any ideas? Im thinking charcoal-grey and chrome, or blue and chrome, to match the body?
FLOORING:
Any reason to buy mats for this thing? I saw some nice grey Rubberized matts for 8 bucks a pair at Big Lots. But ... are they necessary for the Element?
STORAGE:
Storage seems to be a bit of an issue with the Element, they are roomy, but not a lot of cubby holes. Comments?
The doors allow you full access and plenty of room to manuver the baby.
Consider take-off rims, or used. Check E-bay perhaps. Maybe someone here wants to get a Plus One and has alloys to get rid of.
-juice
Congrats on your new E!
I don't own one yet, but it sounds like you got a good deal. Does yours have a auto or manual tranny?
The 5 speed was real nice too, short throw, nicer than the Accord shifter... but... they tend to suck in stop-and-go traffic.
The deep blue color is real nice, i recommend it.
I think its called Fuji Blue Pearl.
Day 2 highlights: Went grocery shopping, put the stuff in the back seat, more room than the trunk Huge leg room!
My dog fits real good in the far back. The only thing is you cant see him there, so theres a REAL danger of forgetting a pet on a hot day back there.
Turning Radius is incredible. Combine that with its SHORT wheelbase, and its the ultimate parkable car. Any parking spot on either side of the aisle, is fair game
Only feature I miss on the LX is cruise control ...
Features I'm glad I dont have: Alarm system, automatic locking doors, I always hated how my Toyota alarm went off like a paranoid little dog, any time you entered slighty wrong.. And how it locked the doors automatically.
Some guy at Carls wanted to see it this morning.... he said it was bigger inside than it was outside, hah
-juice
Total cost with tax and installation $200.
Gonna haul an open air trailer halfway cross country , home next month.
111 for the hitch
roughly 50 bucks for the ball mount and ball
about 40 bucks for installation
and about 100 bucks for wiring installation?
Did you get the wiring? They say its difficult with that vehicle.
I am tempted to get the Reese hitch, its 77 bucks, then i will wire it myself...
The place I went to, sold only the Drawtite hitch (which is a lousy hitch for the 1st gen CR-V). I bought a Hiddenhitch instead, but had them install it while I was at work. I think it cost me 25 or 50 bucks for the install. (No wiring on this job, though.)
Then I can wire it myself, doing the hoakey method ( tapping into the rear lights).
I was thinking about talking them down a bit, and picking them up, I did a quick measurement with my fingers, and they appeared to fit.
Does anyone know of any reason why the Pilot alloys won't fit on the E?
Thanks in advance
A hitch is heavy, but tie-straps help hold it in place and you can use a hydraulic jack (or a helper) to lift it into place.
I installed a Class I hitch on my Forester by myself. The harness was plug and play and it sure was heavy, but I managed in a couple of hours.
FWIW I think the Pilot's rims do fit, maybe varmint can confirm.
-juice
Maybe there will be a "special edition" E in a few years. But it would be nice to have the 5 speed auto and VSA now.
-juice
Looks like it will be a nice vehicle. Unless the seats and dash change though, it is irrelevant to me. I fit in an Element but my shins bang the dash in the current CR-V.
It's very nice when the plug is provided like that because it means you can plug-and-play with no splicing. Many cars do *not* have such a plug.
-juice
-juice
No chipping on sills.
We do have a squeaky clutch for the next service visit.
Plus it still drives TERRIBLY in wet weather. Worst traction in the wet of any FWD vehicle we've ever had. Winter here in Boston this year will be a real blast.
Great idea, that erases the awful IIHS test result. IIHS will have to re-test it now.
I put aftermarket door sills on my Miata. Any paint will scuff if you rub against it often enough.
-juice
My element (4WD EX w/o side airbag,silver) has ~400 miles now. first impressions:
drive & handling: I'd say about what you'd expect from Honda. Some people will find accel and break 'too sensitive'. I had a 2000 Civic, which would also jump if you floor it. Since I'm used to it, It drives great! It certainly doesn't drive like a big car, which was the reason I bought in the first place.
What I like: very tall seating position, a lot of space, the shape (I love it!) etc...
Complaints: engine noise at highway speed is more than I expected. Hearing cargo sliding whenever I turn. Would a cargo cover block the noises enough, or should I buy cargo organizer(s)?
Again, the shape (I'm still worried I might look just silly in 5 years)
not being able to seat 3 in the back.
About the last point, It looks like to me that the replacement bench rear seats with 60/40 folding capabilities can be made, since it is removable anyway. Would other people find this sensible option, or am I just crazy?
Thanks,
I'd recommend cargo nets, or just bungee cord things down to the tie-down points.
I have not seen aftermarket seats for the Element, but some compaines do make optional 3rd row seats for SUVs, and a bench like those would seemingly fit.
I found a link for you:
http://www.littlepassengerseats.com/
Make sure whatever you buy meets DOT safety standards, including sturdy seat belts.
-juice
Are they planning to sell painted panels as a dealer-installed accessory?
I don't think Honda would bother selling different Elements with and without painted panels coming from the factory.
I just bought 4WD EX Auto. I'm certainly enjoying the seating height and the space! (My old car was '91 Acura Integra).
However, it looks like sombody "ripped off" the license plate in front". The bumper shows screwhalls with tears. Also, I somehow got a rather visible cut on the rear bumper.
Since I live in NYC, I'm getting nervous about how these plastics will hold up... Also, there are many posted messages about the interior plastic. I'd like to know if there are any "proven" care instructions for these plastics..
Thanks,
No real bad scratches outside, just a nick here and there on the rear bumper. We have a couple of scratches on the colored dash material. Nothing fixed either.
THe good news is that it's plastic and cleans up easily. The bad news is that it's plastic and is pretty wimpy.
Maybe the scratches accumulate over time in high traffic obvious areas that could have been higher grade materials. As they do, we should compare notes on the keen patina that the plastic acqires.
As for the previous question about caring for panels, I've read a lot about that on the Element Owners Club site.
Good luck.