Honda Element

ropedart · August 2002

Puzzling models, DX and EX. Comes down to what is avail and optional for the DX.
Get Xterra neoprene seat covers for the back seats in the DX?
Only the 4WD gets the rear skylight!
Rear skylight means you can get a front skylight?
They are not painting the cladding as I suggested.
Hope Canada gets a middle LX model with decent stuff.

Yes it is an official press release and the Element was pictured in the local paper today. Hype is building. Parts must now be in Ohio. Can anyone see cladding over there piling up?

rerenov8r · August 2002

The front seats in waterproof vs. all four is a deliberate attempt to encourage the folks who get the 'regular rear seats' to consider leaving those at home when they head to the beach/bog. Makes for some interesting "advertising" when folks see the whole back area 'hollow'...

Further, this will create an opportunity for DIO/parts department upgrades, which are both near & dear to Honda dealers' hearts.

Finally, I too do NOT consider the Element a "decontented" CR-V, but rather a sportier/hipper line extension, in the same way the New Beetle extends the Golf/Jetta family...

diploid · August 2002

I think the front vs. all four option is to get people to buy the more expensive EX...

chris777 · August 2002

if honda would offer different options such as cruise abs ect. on the dx then sweet

but if they follow the current tier system they use with dx being stripped of all but basic amenities like air and only offer things like abs on the top of the line then bla

I was looking at a crv today and got to thinking I wonder exactly how different the interior dimensions will be between it and element.

The rear seats tumble forward and you can put 2 bikes in at an angle, but if those seats were removed I wonder if it could swallow them like the element does? food for thought

I'm looking largely at price though I do like the functionality of the element but unless it has comparable options on the dx to an lx crv why not spring the extra on a crv

Lets face it unless the American public embraces this thing like the pilot (doubtful) then it might depreciate like the insight (take a look at how its resale falls like a Korean) unless I love the element or its significantly cheaper than crv with comparable options a crv will probably win out. Like I said price and value will definitely be the biggest keys to my possibly purchasing element

on a side note of interest does anyone know where to find out details on the engine the dealer I visited today said the engine in a cr-v has a timing chain rather than a belt I've heard these never have to be changed (within reason)

also has anyone compiled a list of verifiable specs on element yet, like dimensions tire size ect?

hondarulesall · August 2002

rerenov8r... the reason the rear seats are not waterproof on DX model is not a deliberate attempt at anything. It is to help keep the costs down, a small corner to cut to make it more financially available to a wider market. And as for the parts department upgrades being near & dear to Honda dealers' hearts... Every aspect of the Honda dealership is near and dear, the parts and accessory upgrades are for Honda owners, not dealers. It is a way they can personalize their Honda, so it is just their own and not like every other one out there.

chris777... the rear seats do come entirely out, and the automatic trans is not a rumor, MT and AT will both be available.

ateixeira · August 2002

I don't like the idea of not offering an LX, if you think about that's the highest volume model on most Hondas.

It would almost make more sense to offer a DX and LX, or an LX and EX. But all or nothing? No A/C, even? That's going backwards to the days when Oursiman Honda in Bethesda forced you to get the $1800 A/C option to get a low-end Civic.

I bet 80% of 'em will be EX models, watch.

-juice

varmint · August 2002

I agree. The seats business makes sense as a cost cutting measure, but seems like an odd choice. I would've thought that something else could have been cut. What really surprizes me is the lack of A/C.

Hondarulesall - I think Chris777 was referring to the 5 speed auto that has been rumored. Not the 4 speed auto that looks to be standard equipment.

Chris777 - I do not expect that the Element will be embraced like the Pilot or CR-V. It is a niche vehicle built for the weirdos on this planet. I'm sure Honda will find enough of them.

chris777 · August 2002

I don't know if i have to shell out 1800 for a/c

I may upgrade to a crv

lets just hope honda monitors these forums

cause if the 16k element is stripped with no air
there will be alot of discounted units on the honda lots collecting dust and pollen

though I have been trying to figure out how they will price it

especially with a 2wd ex

lx 2wd 16?
lx 4wd 17?
ex 2wd 19?
ex 4wd 21?

my guess would be somewhere in the neighborhood of this

I've seen matrixes advertised with civic lx equivalent options for 14900

if your reading this honda , might I suggest you don't try and make this thing the toyota echo of suv,s

if a dx includes standard a/c and at least the option of an added cruise for no more than 300
I might could live with hand crank windows

but I really don't want to shell out 17 or 18 when I can get a crv now for 18

come on honda give us some real incentive to buy this thing I thought a large part of its appeal would be affordability and functionality

chris777 · August 2002

per another press release

"The newest model in the Honda lineup debuts in December as a 2003 model. The Element was designed from the inside out for maximum interior space and functionality. The Element accommodates up to four adults and their gear. Fold-away rear seats create an open cargo area with a tough easy to clean resin floor. Seating surfaces are waterproof and washable. A high power 270-watt stereo has an auxiliary input for use with external audio sources like MP3 players. The center opening side cargo doors lack a B-pillar and create a wide opening for cargo loading flexibility.

The Element is powered by a 2.4-liter, 160 horsepower, i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine matched to a front wheel drive or Honda's Real Time 4WD(TM) automatic and manual transmissions will be available.

Color choices for the Element include:

Satin Silver Metallic
Galapagos Green
Shoreline Mist
Nighthawk Black
Eternal Blue Pearl
Sunset Orange Pearl"

chris777 · August 2002

DX PRE-PRODUCTION Features
- 2.4L 160hp i-VTEC 4cyl engine
- Pillar-less body side with "Open Wide Doors"
- Resin interior surfaces for easy cleaning
- Fold Away Rear Seats
- Front-Wheel-Drive with Optional Real Time 4WD
- 5spd Transmission with Available Automatic
- Rear Skylight (4WD Model) Color & Trim
Satin Silver Metallic
Galapagos Green
Shorline Mist Metallic
Eternal Blue Pearl
Sunset Orange Pearl

EX PRE-PRODUCTION Features (adds to DX)
- Alloy Wheels
- Anti-Lock Braking System
- Air Conditioning
- Cruise Control
- Power Windows
- 270 Watt AM/FM/CD 7-Speaker Audio System (inluding Subwoofer) with Auxiliary Audio Input for MP3 Players
- Anti-Lock Braking System
- Air Conditioning - Cruise Control
- Power Windows
Color & Trim
Satin Silver Metallic
Galapagos Green
Shorline Mist Metallic
Eternal Blue Pearl
Sunset Orange Pearl

don't know about anyone else but I don't like it

maby the specs will change b4 production

moonkat · August 2002

http://www.hondaelement.ca/en/default.asp?l=en&s=h

ropedart · August 2002

No base AC?
A lousy MP3 input jack? for 21K$ What about the GPS? How about a 110V jack?
Who needs power windows for just 2 windows. No power skylight.
Get your own 18 inch alloy wheels.
What the heck is the color shorline. They should have offered the SIR yellow. No white. Only light colors work with that gray cladding. The orange was rumoured for many upcoming cars by trend reports. Orange does not photograph or come across well on PC monitors.

hondarulesall · August 2002

well put varmit! "...built for the wierdos..." That's funny. I must agree, although the Element is cool, it will not compare to CR-V and especially Pilot. The CR-V's sell quite well, and the Pilots are sold before they are unloaded from the trucks. That is tough competition for the Element and all its weirdness.

artdecho · August 2002

They're still talking like the Element is a prototype! Cdn price at 25-30k is virtually the same as CR-V (26 and change to 29 and change except for the EX-Leather@32K)....should be more like 23-28K max. Like the hatch, washable floors & seats, removable seats, versatility, 16" wheels/tires over the CR-V's 15 inchers, swing-out door and non-removeable seats. Wish it sat 5 vs. 4

varmint · August 2002

Given the price vs content, the weight, and the look of the lil beast, I'm guessing that this vehicle is actually a bit larger than the CR-V. The more I look at the cargo area behind the rear seats, the bigger it seems.

I think this is one of those cases where you get a lot of vehicle, but not much content.

mcostello · August 2002

What are they thinking? You can't sell a car without air conditioning except in Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Seattle, and a few other places. Are the precious, targeted Gen-Yers going to spring for a dealer AC? I'm certainly not, and I'm a tailend boomer. What the heck is their point? 16.9k is a good price for a reasonable vehicle, not for this stripped-down offering. If you could still get it, I'm sure that the Jeep Dispatcher 1000 (former mail vehicle) would be a lot less than 16.9k. Face it, that's what they're offering here. For 21-22k, there's a heck of a lot more out there.

chris777 · August 2002

so is toyota matrix/pontiac vibe
a used crv
scion bbx is supposed to base out under 18 loaded down with all power options(ala lx honda)

of course I can get a crv for 18 if I wanted to shell that much out

honda might I suggest you rethink this before your left with 50000 units collecting dust on lots

ateixeira · August 2002

Maybe they figure the demographic will be so young (i.e. high school or college age) that A/C is not needed for some? If you don't have to wear a suit to work, it may be tolerable to some. My first (used) car didn't have A/C.

That web site still shows the one with blue cladding.

-juice

chris777 · August 2002

did anyone else get this?

basically a commercial video

"Come December, a totally new type of vehicle will hit the streets: the Element, from Honda. The Element is equipped with side-cargo doors, so it's easy to load your gear, friends or both. Its interior can be configured 64 different ways... just in case. The seats and floor are so durable, they're practically begging for you to spill something. And its seamless 4-wheel-drive can transport you and yours to just about any destination you have in mind.
So enjoy this quick Element hors d'oeuvre. We'll have a new Web site with more information in early September. "

himiler · August 2002

Maybe Honda should've named the Element "Pluto Nash" instead.

Gen-Yers don't want milk crates on wheels. They want low-slung coupes and sedans with good kit levels.

I can see the DX trim having crank windows, but no cruise control or ABS? Give me a friggin' break!

Also, notice that there is no mention of four-wheel disc brakes on either trim level.

Way to go, Honda. You're busy with this Aztek clone while at the same time considering axing the S2000 after 2004.

ropedart · August 2002

Idunno 'bout this. Perhaps they should try and sell just one in every state/province and see what happens. They need to straighten this line out. Any chance Honda may have a mid-year update?

Bring on the Latitude! Which was probably a hedge against the possible failure of the Element anyway. One of the few Honda's that may depreciate badly at first?

artdecho · August 2002

Anybody seen any more detailed interior pix? Can't seem to see any cup-holders anywhere, for the front or back row. Is it gonna have a flip up table ala CR-V? The gotta-hava-java set will be disappointed if there aren't any. The back seat also looks like a bit of a climb to get back into
...not a problem for the target demographics but maybe for us somewhat older folks. I know it's designed to put most of your stuff inside but are there roof rails built into those cladding pieces on the roof? They put the little stub antenna on the side, so it seems they were thinking some of us might like to carry stuff on the roof. And tow rating......i assume it'll be the same as the CR-V
....1500 lbs?

varmint · August 2002

Artdecho - Take a look at the pictures that show the cargo area with the seats folded up on the sides. Look past the cargo area and to the front. You'll see the e-brake on the floor between the two seats. Along with the e-brake, there are two cupholders on a **slightly** raised platform. It's not a folding table like the CR-V.

Why do you think the back seats will be hard to get into?

mhiggins2000 · August 2002

In Half Moon Bay, right by the harbor, off of Highway 1 there is a big white tent which holds 4-5 Elements. They are driving them in and out and going for road tests evidently. They've been there since Monday, still doing it today.

diploid · August 2002

They're certainly not being as secretive about the Element as they were with the CR-V and Accord.

mhiggins- How do they look in real life? Smallerlarger than what you expected? Do they look better/worse than the pictures?

diploid · August 2002

http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_026889

Some new pics of the Element on wieck.com.

chris777 · August 2002

good spot diploid
so that is Galapagos Green ?
kinda looks like an old jeep

their are more pics why are they showing red when it wont be offered?

interior looks more drab with just gray instead of the blue highlights plus no yellow strapping on rear seats

the college hills site list a picnic table option

I'd rather see the cover support about 200-300 lbs. myself for hauling and changing if you will be able to do it

I asked on the crv at a dealer and the table is only supposed to support about 50 lb. evenly distributed so I'm hoping on a sturdy tire cover to stand on/load on

the cup holders are in a pan surrounding the brake I've seen a close up of it it also had a square pan I believe but I'm not sure where maybe vtec.net

I wish I had had a better digital camera when I saw it my pics were low res and didn't reveal too much unless your interested in door hinges and the hatch and I lost my disposable 35 mm cam

mhiggins2000 if you have a cam get some shots por favor

anyone else think that the "ex" is skimpy
all it has is abs and alloys and the sound system
for 21 it should have automatic front and rear moonroofs as well as the in dash dvd players along with rear disk brakes roof rack ect.

scion bbx is supposed to include all power options for less than 19

carstuff3 · August 2002

I will have to wait until I see it in person, but it is growing on me. More pics at hondanews.com. Looks good in red. From a price perspective I see no reason why a Element EX should not run the same price as an CR-V EX. Same engine, same equipment. If you want A/C on the DX the dealer can install it. That is what they have been doing on DX Civic's and Accord's for years. As for cruise on a DX, its not going to happen.

diploid · August 2002

Yeah, I think the new interior pics are a bit drab (I thought it was black and white photography - until I noticed the red taillights).

Hopefully they'll offer as much interior colors as they do exterior colors. I really like the car - it should be a hit with people who commute to school. Ditto to the weirdo comments.

ropedart · August 2002

Whoever at Honda picked the colors should be fired. They had an opportunity to make a stunning niche youth statement and go and vanilla the whole thing. I liked the blue interior and now it is the most depressing gray ever. It should have been orange or red or yellow or the blue. Honda now generally has only one interior color per model. This is it. They probably asked the Accord team-wrong choice.
The red Element is actually the orange one. Too much red. No guts to do a bright orange or yellow. No guts to do black cladding. Even a black Element will look awkward with that medium gray cladding.

Never mind about the washable seats. Go to Canadian Tire hardware store and get some bright seat covers.

ropedart · August 2002

I agree it will not be cheap in Canada. 25 to 30K CDN. As much as a CRV but seats 1 less, no rear window cranks. I noticed it really is not that big.(from the spam video) It is shorter than a CRV. It is taller and if it was as long as a CRV it would look like a Tractor Trailer. The proportions are to keep it funky looking.

moonkat · August 2002

Looks are deceiving. From the elevated 3/4 front view
the red Element looks huge...like a panel van:

http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_026890

I find it hard to believe it is on the CRV wheelbase. My perception is Element is larger; esp considering the 16" wheels & known height increase.

Closest comparable photo of a CRV I could find:
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_041787
This photo does demonstrate the additional roof area/cargo volume to be gained by squaring off the rear-end.

Don't know 'bout "Gen Y" appeal, but this buggy is going to be a hit with the Boomers!

artdecho · August 2002

Varmint.....unlike most vehicles, where you open the back door, stick your butt in & plop it down, in the Element, you have to climb in & move back to the back seat before you plop down....not as bad as getting into the rear seat of a minivan but along those lines....I'm sure my "seniors" folks would find it a bit difficult if I went to pick them up, although the tall roof & absence of a B pillar help......gotta go & check out those new pix now!

diploid · August 2002

The NSX is smaller in real life than it is in media pics. I think the Element will do the same.

artdecho · August 2002

I agree that they could've been a bit more adventurous wrt interior colours....however the gray with the brushed aluminum does look fairly classy. I think the exterior colours (incl. orange) will probably look better in person. Saw the cupholders, Varmint......thx. Looks like the rear ones are built into the inboard seat cushions. My question about a roof rack was answered in the pix too. Front seats seem a bit low....hope you don't get the sensation of sitting on the floor. Hardest sell for my wife will be the 4-seat capacity (and with those inboard cupholders, even if there was a middle belt, it doesn't look like it would be too comfy)
Would like to see one parked beside a CR-V. Haven't totally given up on the X-Trail either.

moonkat · August 2002

Pilot is larger in real life than media pictures. So much so that CU published a picture of a Red Pilot on the cover of its May 02 (?) issue on small SUVs when it reveiwed the CRV among others. I expect the same with the Element...bigger in real life.

Honda has made a subtle but extraordinary effort to hide the length of the Element with: "foreshortening" 3/4 views; avoiding scale elements such as other vehicles & people. Just as they did the Pilot. And as I look at some of these Element photos to make out the driver; seems there is as much room behind driver as in a Pilot. Then again, difference between CRV and Pilot wheelbase is only 3" (103" vs 106").

The Element could very well be to the CRV what the Pilot is to the MDX; a more functional variation of a Honda product. By just straightening out some body lines & increasing height; and using the same drivetrain the Element stands to gain 10% in volume as the Pilot did over the MDX (90cf vs 82). So 10% increase over CRV 72cf would yield about 80cf. The Element could have the cargo volume of an MDX! Though I would not be surprised if it had more.

Will be very interesting to see Element up close.

Varmint: Did I just imply the CRV is an Acura?!

diploid · August 2002

I also just noticed that the front end isn't just a blunt square as I originally thought. The sides where the headlights are positioned are actually cornered so that the headlights can be partially seen from the side view.

ateixeira · August 2002

Younger folks that are the target demographic won't have problems crawling into that back seat. In fact I bet those seats are empty 90% of the time on this type of vehicle.

-juice

varmint · August 2002

I wouldn't think it would be all that tough anyway. You step in. You pivot. You sit. Since the door is hinged on the trailing edge, you won't be approaching the seat from the same angle as a wagon, suv, or car.

Regarding the pics... I still like the silver. The green looks interesting. The red is icky. I wish the auto CR-V had the same center stack. The jury is still out on the large bezzle gauges. Generally, I like the dash (colors and all), but the interior looks too dark.

ateixeira · August 2002

Yeah, since the door hinges the opposite way, it might be easier.

We are used to going in forward, then sitting back. All while leaning at an angle, too.

With suicide-style doors, they are completely out of your way. So while the opening is smaller, nothing blocks your feet from getting in easily.

-juice

chris777 · August 2002

"Each of the two SCION vehicles that will be available at launch will offer an array of standard equipment including air conditioning, power windows, door locks and mirrors, six-speaker Pioneer AM/FM/CD audio system, sport seats, and many more comfort and convenience features. Each of these vehicles will carry an MSRP considerably LESS than $18,000."

ateixeira · August 2002

The Scion bbX was much smaller car, though, in Honda's defense. Saw them both in the flesh at the NY show and they don't even seem like they'd compete in the same size class.

-juice

varmint · August 2002

Wait a minute! Did he just post the words, "Toyota", "standard", and "eqipment" all in the same sentence?!?!?

This Scion business is really different.

chris777 · August 2002

just posting what is stated about it.

seriously though if the sticker price for a dx element is 16000 (and not 16900) plus 460 destination

how many of you are willing to shell out what 18000 appx for a 5 speed and 18800(auto) for a dx vehicle, just to get air conditioning in a base vehicle?

I like the functionality too but honda will have to offer serious discounts or rethink the options packaging for this vehicle to live, especially with crv pricing being around 18000 in advertising . The mini suv segment is too competitive

that's what I am saying

while honda Isn't feeling the economic pinch like American manufacturers its still feeling it accords are 5000 off in several places
and I've seen civics discounted heavily too ex and si models. I'm saying this in hopes that someone from honda will hear this, because for resale value alone I'd pay 2 grand more for a crv . If element is finalized with these options they will loose one prospective buyer.

who is going to pay 16000 for a stripper?
and the ex only has alloys, abs and a stereo as ex equipped options?(aside from 2 power windows and locks) for 5 thousand more? thats a pretty wide gap

diploid · August 2002

Well compare it to an LX CR-V which doesn't have ABS (even as an option), but comes with A/C. It retails for a little over 19K, and you can't even haggle at right now (trust me, I tried to buy one).

Add A/C for $1000 (I don't even think it costs that much) to a DX Element, and it's a bargain at 16K IMO.

bowke · August 2002

honda isnt offering the discounts you mentioned... the dealers are given more allocation on the '03 accord for civic and accord sales...thats the reason for the discounts, not a poor market...as a matter of fact, honda has set their all-time volume record across the board for the 4th straight year. the element is a niche car...probably wont be made in high volume, and maybe for only a few years...honda likes to test itself every once in awhile just to see what it can do...crx, del sol, etc...although these 2 cars are highly sought after, the intention was no different, i think.

ropedart · August 2002

Calm down and wait and see. Don't buy anything until you have seen the 2 Scions, Latitude, Sube Baja. Then the following year are coming the entry level Jeep Willys.
If you wait until the hype dies down you probably could get a deal on a scum green one (should've been lime green) or the bland tan one (should've been yellow).
My friend bought a Aztec when they first came out. He likes it but not the depreciation and the people talking behind his back.

Kirstie_H · August 2002

Oh, I think there are plenty of people expressing feelings about the Aztek right out in the open

Someone at Edmunds loves it, so maybe it's something you have to see/drive to appreciate. I'm not sure why they chose to make the max seating capacity 4, though.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

daveghh · August 2002

I think the Element is a really cool vehicle! I don't like the Element when it has two toned color and plastic cladding.

I like the pictures of the monotone color ELement! I would seriously consider buying it if I didn't already own a 2002 CRV.

ropedart · August 2002

I was thinking why Honda did not paint the cladding. Monotone is what everyone wants except the designers. Unfortunately, plastic does not hold shape like metal. Over time it sags, warps, ripples and waves. If you paint it high gloss it just enhances those defects. Look at some Pontiac painted cladding in sunlight you can see what I mean. Kids will be compelled to do it themselves at their own risk. BTW Does anyone know that the front quarter panel of the 1984 CRX was plastic?
Did Honda trade engines for GM cladding. I don't think it was a fair exchange. LOL

Honda Element

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