Volkswagen Phaeton

sam818 · August 2004

The beige interior is great.. not too yellow. I have my Phateon with a white exterior. BUT.. I would steer clear of a black exterior. Looks great when shiny, but shows polish swirls, dust and is not so good in hot weather.

profvh · August 2004

I have just been reading about the new Phaeton
diesel 3.0 V6 that VW is planning to offer to the
German public supposedly in November.

Why doesn't VW bring this car to the US in the
short wheelbase model? It would seem to me to be
a good "fit" between the Passat and the current
Phaeton imports, especially in the short wheelbase
form that I understand is sold in Europe. The
timing would seem to be excellent. This article
can be accessed at www.Germancarfans.com.

jtrujillo86 · August 2004

I was just on e-bay motors looking at Phaetons. I can't afford one, but I just like to look around. I found a brand new one with a buy it now price of $13,000. Now, I'm sure this is an error, but by bidding or hitting buy it now on ebay, you're in a binding contract as is the seller. Anyone seriously looking should check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6060&item=2488190196&rd=1

Jeremy

ljflx · August 2004

That's a V12 as well which makes it all the more impossible to believe. Now how do you know the car is not totalled or in some horrific condition. VWguild should pick it up and resell it for more profits then he can make on 10 Phaetons.

vwguild2 · August 2004

I have never been able to bring myself to take advantage of someone else's mistakes...

Obviously a typo, or a prank...

hac72 · August 2004

Well, VW Phaeton is, in fact, a marketing failure.
The sales of this vehicle are abysmal and it is pretty much doomed at this point. As I was arguing in the beginning of this topic, VW has created a monumental blunder.

It is irrelevant how good this car is. Why? People in the Phaeton niche sector are looking for prestige and that is the bottom line. They are not the type of people who would buy a vehicle for $80,000 from a VW dealer. What if Hyundai comes up with a $50,000 car? Ridiculous? Absolutely. I think the resale value of Phaeton will be very low, especially compared with competition. By the way, this car is rated dead last by Car & Driver in comparison tests (mostly for poor ride).

IMHO

markcincinnati · August 2004

There are points that I agree with in your post -- however, most of the test reports I have read about the Phaeton have been very favorable, even the comparos where it is usually beaten by its lighter more nimbler sibling the A8L from Audi.

The car may well fail -- but IMHO if it fails, it will do so for the same reason the VW W8 Passat has apparently been a dud -- no one knows the darn thing even exists!

Ditto my allroad, although it, somehow has had only a fair run, not a poor run like the W8 and the Phaeton, thus far.

Since I lease and since I would lease one of these from VW credit, I can tell you the deals here in Cincinnati are eye popping on Phaetons. They're giving them away, from a mo payment perspective.

More's the pity.

I blame "marketing and advertising" in large measure for this revolting development.

golfgti201 · August 2004

Most average joe's out there don't even know that the Phaeton exists. Why doesn't VW market? In one of the newer motor trend issues, the month i forgot, the phaeton scored 3rd out of 6 i believe, mostly for the same complaints as those mentioned above. But for some reason i am very attracted to the phaeton, maybe because i have a thing for vw's, not sure exactly. Not everyone cares about the flash of a name or its prestige, such as me, although i would think at least 90% of people buying this level of car.

vwguild2 · August 2004

may want to turn to the July 26th AUTOWEEK..."Head to Head" PHAETON v. the S500

And, Mark, you are certainly correct here...Look for much more Advertising and Marketing during the remainder of Q3 and into Q4...

bobm1 · September 2004

I just hope that their marketing is better than the Olympics ad. It's cute and all but doesn't at all communicate what the Phaeton is. Many of us Phaeton owners discovered it by accident, not one of the commercials would have ever enticed me to check it out.

My guess is the only people the latest ad will bring in are VW loyalists. Once they see what the car costs, they'll have sticker shock.

vwguild2 · September 2004

I certainly agree; to a point...

There are very few Arnold commercials that have been home runs...The New(A4 Platform)Jetta Commercial filmed in New Orleans 5 years ago, and most of the New Beetle spots..."Round for a Reason" among others...

I have been less than politically correct many times before; so when I say that we need to inject a major dose of testosterone into our ads,
it is something that I have said many times before and not quietly...

I like the new PHAETON "Warp Speed" for a couple of reasons...First, it reaches outside of the normal demographic...very important in my opinion. Next.. a Father & Son, I like that as well. Some features and then whooooosh...Warp Speed...There is certainly more that can be done,
but a quantum leap from the crap they put together for the W8...

veedubdoug · September 2004

I keep hearing about smokin' lease deals on the Phaeton but my local dealers never seem to offer them up. Anyone recently leased one???

vwguild2 · September 2004

I sold my seventh one today, and it was the first cash deal...Lease offers from Volkswagen Credit very attractive...

fish8 · September 2004

Look on VW.com for a new Phaeton Lease special!!

drjmak · September 2004

what are the deals that you have.

rayainsw · September 2004

"but a quantum leap from the crap they put together for the W8... "

Agreed.
Though an R40 version of the W8 might have been enough to sway me - without a commercial of any kind.

- Ray
Knowing THAT ain't gonna happen . . .

ffb13 · September 2004

i read a post that the phaeton is a total failure.
well,yes.
why.
wrong price point for a vw.
car is heavy.
car is very very heavy.
car is difficult to turn at speed........regardless of what you read on the test.
it oversteers and it is difficult to hold the intended line at speed.

but,car is great for straight ahead driving at high speeds.............just do not turn.

i have been posting and knew that prices had to come down.and now that they have i thought why not?

i do a lot of travel between fla. where i live and conn. where my daughter and grandkids are.would be a great car for this.

but ,next hurdle...........the idiotic dealers down here....i cannot trust them.and this is in the sales dept.
in the service dept ???/
well,i checked other vw owners..........
they hate the experience..........

another problem----steep depreciation--this one does not bother me because i keep my cars well over 230,000 miles....but this introduces a new problem............

service ,breakdown,and costs of repair this overly complex,heavy car or sis it a truck.

anyhow,

now that prices are good,the other items listed above have made me reconsider........

by the way,i drove the new BENTLEY CONTINENTAL ,and had a blast.
if you go take a look at it,(made by vw with vw parts)
you will recognize many parts in the phaeton are in this car including the steering wheel and the rear arm rests and other.
great car............this may be what i need for my trips.
taking it for 2 days next week to see.

vwguild2 · September 2004

Better bring your checkbook; you will not want to give it back!!!

Make sure that you get one with the upgraded sound system.

markcincinnati · September 2004

I hate to pick a nit, but the Phaeton does not oversteer, it understeers.

And, this circumstance is somewhat mitigated by inflating the front tires higher than the rear tires.

Finally, although you are correct if you meant understeer, not oversteer, the Phaeton is hardly "horrible" in this regard unless you are comparing it to some well balanced rear wheel drive cars that, at this moment, will certainly cost a lot more than the Phaeton and will not have the Phaeton's edge in the winter.

With respect to long term -- well, I certainly would go for the maximum extended warranty you can buy (100,000 miles, I assume). And, know, that any European car will be very expensive to repair 100,000 miles from now.

The Phaeton, at this point, seems to be "cheap" -- especially if you are leasing. But at 230,000 miles you certainly are not a good candidate for a lease.

When I see these things in the paper at a lease number that begins with a "5" I know things are not going well in VW - ville for this product.

But, the thing is, the car is a total unknown.

Remember when Lexus first came out -- people did claim "no one will buy a Toyota at this price point." Unlike Lexus, which chose to have stand alone dealers, VW has marketed the Phaeton right next to a golf and a jetta -- this should NOT be a problem. But it is for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is the virtual complete lack of an image campaign. Moreover, the dealer body reputation is, by all accounts, merely "fair" and that is being charitable (see the saga on the Passat town hall about the engine replacement).

Audi to some is still a VW that knows somebody. But, here in River City (Cincinnati) the dealer image at our 2 Audi dealers is undergoing a major makeover ($6,000,000 face lifts!).

Simultaneously, several of the VW dealers appear to be doing the same thing -- but this shift in image will take time and for the time being I am reminded that "perception is reality!"

So, what do yo do?

Buy the cheap Phaeton and love it -- it is a bargain. The worst that will happen is the thing will be worthless from a trade in standpoint not too long in the future. That is why I would at least consider a lease -- they (VW) will insure YOU against a fall in resale value.

If I had the money that VW probably has to blow on marketing, I would hire the company that did the Lexus roll out years ago and just say "make it like that." Of course, I just can't see a lot of VW dealers willing to put out "AUDI" money for a new dealership -- and make no mistake about it, the dealers have to cough up the dough for the new corporate look and the substance to provide the service behind the facade.

Maybe VW needs to talk to the folks at VWGUILD's company about how to pull this off.

What a world, what a world.

vwguild2 · September 2004

Congratulations!!! And Welcome to the Volkswagen Family!!!

Let me assure you that with each passing day, you will enjoy your PHAETON more & more...

tarik · September 2004

...is like so many others out there - empty. Plus, in light of guild's reference to the "father and son" display, the agency (and ultimately VW of NA) should have taken a closer look at the height at which the safety belt passes the young passenger's neck and carotid artery. Unfortunately, and that has nothing to do with VW or the Phaeton at all, shortcomings like this are apparently not even noticed. The people who produce, film, and approve automotive-related clips like this, should know better. And that's just MHO...

vwguild2 · September 2004

Trying to understand, even abstractly, where you are going with this comment about the passenger seat belt position...

When this young man is sitting back in the seat the belt seems to be at a rather normal 45 degree
angle...And, in the event of an accident, that is exactly where he would be; pre-tensioning retractors are standard on all VWs...

And this reference to the Carotid Artery...what is that? All arteries, as opposed to veins, are rather deep within the body...the only exception being the popliteal, which is right behind the knee...

Your point is???

tarik · September 2004

All I am saying is that the boy in the front seat is too short to properly be restrained as suggested in the commercial, he should still have a booster under him. As I am sure you know, the lowest position of the seat belt does only fit humans of certain upper body height, and the young passenger in the clip does not fall into this category yet. At his body height, he should actually still ride in the back seat anyways, but THAT wouldn't jive with the "dad and son" theme. Review the commercial here.

As to the carotid artery, seat belts, if not adjusted for height correctly, are known to cause dissections of the carotid artery in traffic accidents, as the passenger could receive the majority of decelerative force on his neck by the restraining belt.

Hope to have made my point a little clearer.

vwguild2 · September 2004

As a Licensed California Paramedic(Ret.)And having spent 5 years on the mean streets of Salinas...running hundreds of calls on the "Blood Alley" section of Highway 101 in North Monterey County...I have never encountered the situation that you describe...

Back on point...I just hope that Q4 brings more Advertising & Marketing for the PHAETON...

tarik · September 2004

...never seen a gas station blow up because of someone smoking while they filled up (not an unusual here in SC, by the way), but that doesn't mean it does not happen...

Back to the regular program.

rob_at_work · September 2004

First Post. (I actually posted message 1009, but it was pulled when I asked to change my forum name.)

Just received a Phaeton that was ordered in April. I requested the 4-seat option which is produced in lower quantities, so I had to wait. As it turns out, that pushed my car into the 2005 group, so the wait was probably a good thing. I like the new wheel design.

To respond to an earlier question regarding leases. VW owns their own leasing company. One way to discount the cost of the car without lowering the purchase price is to give you credit for a high trade-in value when calculating the lease cost. Even if the interest rates are at market levels, if they allow a 60% trade-in value after 3 years, or 52% trade-in value after 4 years, they are probably allowing more than the actual market will pay down the road. Third-party leasing companies were quoting me residual values more than 10% less.

My reason for posting is actually to address the comments regarding the target customer and VW strategy, which seems to be a divided subject on this forum. I am not qualified to critique the VW strategy, but I can post my "profile" and reasons for buying the car.

I have driven Mercedes S-Class and SELs for 23 years now. When I was younger, the image was fun, but as I age (47 at the moment), the image becames less fun. Mercedes engineering also changed. They stopped making rebuild kits, and started carrying replacement modules. More efficient for them. More expensive for me. The frequency of repair was the real problem. Other cars may be experiencing the same issues for all I know, but my attitude about Mercedes went from respect to indifference. I was willing to pay for higher quality, but I was only getting average quality. I realize that repair costs can be avoided by turning in a car at the end of a warrantee period, on any brand car, but for me the damage is done.

In my opinion, because the prestige of the badge is of less value, VW offers a better car for a better price. For me, the separated big back seats are a huge plus. I like the light steering response. For others, Mercedes' heavier steering is more comfortable. For others, BMW's tighter suspension is a priority. For others, Audi's A8L retractable command center screen is refreshing. I personally like the Phaeton, I like the design, I like the VW image.

The dealer experience was also night and day. The VW dealer was happy to let my teenage son test drive the cars with me. My Mercedes dealer was worried my son would smudge the paint on the showroom car, and made a point of criticizing the competition.

One of my buddies said that with the VW badge and relative obscurity of the new car, no one would recognize that I am driving a luxury car. Great. I will know. In fact, obscurity would be a bonus. He turned out to be wrong, however, this car is attracting more attention that I suspected - maybe just a new thing. I have met several other Pheaton owners through this process of buying a car. Every one is an ex-Mercedes, BMW, Lexus owner. The first-time luxury car buyer is apparently not buying a Pheaton locally. Oh well.

This is a very fun car.

vwguild2 · September 2004

And, once again...Congratulations!!! Welcome to the Volkswagen Family...

golfgti201 · September 2004

i understand how mb might be a little worried that your son might not be the best driver out there, but don't you think if your son is good enough at driving for you, he is good enough for mb? What kind of service is that? At least VW hasn't got their heads up their butt and started acting all arrogant since they have a nice car as well.

P.S. Great decision on your Phaeton!!

dudleyr · September 2004

Funny how things are relative. When I was I kid, a friend and I stopped at a dealership when we saw a Ferrari being unloaded. We were just watching it being unloaded, and the Ferrari salesman came out and started yelling at us because he did not want it touched. The Mercedes salesman felt bad and invited us to come in and sit in his cars and not to worry about touching them, take your time etc.

The friend eventually bought a Mercedes.

Being treated right by the dealer makes a big difference. My father, who is retired, still can't understand why car salesman 40 years his junior insist on calling him by his first name (or buddy etc.) like they are old friends. Mr. _______ goes a long way for some people.

bobm1 · September 2004

Vote for the Phaeton at http://motortrend.com/multimedia/polls/112_0409_classpoll/index.h- tml

docroger · September 2004

Car dealer experiences are really fun to toss around. I remember going into a Mercedes dealer with my parents when I was a kid. My parents were quite well off, but, to put it mildly, "dressed down" on the weekends. Well, the salesperson didn't really give us the time of day until it came out that my dad was a doctor, etc., and then attitudes changed.

I finished the "dealing" on my Phaeton having just come from the gym; perhaps not the typical appearance of a Phaeton buyer! However, in 2004, I think that the dealers know not to "judge a book by its cover" and treat everyone with respect.

I've been impressed recently in my car buying purchases, as the majority of salespeople know something about the vehicles. I have had the experience in the past of knowing way more about the nuts and bolts of a car than the salesperson; recently that's not been the case.

rob_at_work · September 2004

VWguild2 and other owners,

I was told during the sales process that when I took a Phaeton in for repair I would drive away in another Phaeton while repairs were being made. If none were available, they would send me out with a Touareg.

Is this a dealer offer, or a VW policy in general? My car is in for repair today (and yesterday). I am driving the old Benz that I thought was retiring. I chose that option over being driven to the nearest Enterprise car rental location. I haven't asked the dealer for an explanation yet.

rob_at_work · September 2004

Never mind. The dealer just called and apologized for the misunderstanding and inconvenience. They are bending over backwards to get a car to me. I suppose it is notable that they figured out the mistake before I called to ask about it. Just a new service person I suppose.

vwguild2 · September 2004

Loaner policy is pretty much as you stated...PHAETON or T-Reg...Glad they got it straight for you...

bobm1 · September 2004

Didn't happen in my case:~(

golfgti201 · September 2004

what car did you get?

bobm1 · September 2004

On my Phaeton 5k servie I got the old style Audi A4 with 50k miles and a huge dent on the front. No big deal other than they didn't deliver on the promise. Next time I'm going to schedule my appointment with with the 1-877-Pha-eton number. Because my other complaint was getting a hold of the specialist, always got caught up in voicemail hell.

golfgti201 · September 2004

they gave you a used audi with 50K miles and a big scratch??? Thats pathetic. But anyway, hope you get your problems solved

sjd9346 · September 2004

I have had my 2005 Phaeton ( 270 watt stereo is the only option I wanted) now for about one month. I just hit the 1000 mile mark and recently, after taking it easy for the first 7-800 miles, I have really started driving the car harder. I honestly find that I like this car the more I drive it. The stereo is beyond belief, it is one of the most comfortable riding cars I have ever driven, and like most Phaeton owners, I have owned many of the competitors. Despite what I have read here, I think the car tracks great at speed and the weight of the car reminds me, in all of the positive ways, of the E and S classes from two generations ago. The interior is stunning and the exterior with the new grill/wheels is awesome. I am constantly getting compliments here in West Los Angeles. Sure, the navigation is a waste, the trunk is too hard to close and the steering is just a tiny bit too light, but overall, I love this car. I crank up the stereo and with how well insulated a driver is with the windows up, the hellish traffic here in town is actually tolerable. Anyway, I could go on and on. For anyone out there on the fence and turned off by the badge, this is the real deal. If you want beauty, performance, quality and comfort at a bargain price, there really is no other choice in this class. If you are just all about prestige, this car will have to earn it. However, the valet at a downtown hotel last week put it front and center without even being asked....and he pronounced the car correctly as he was telling me how much he liked it....

bobm1 · September 2004

Valets typically have two emotions. When you pull they take your keys and give you a card. When they bring the car back, they can't stop talking about it.

carnet1 · September 2004

I have given my car in to service three times since i got it in feb 04 twice i got a toureg and once a spanking new audi A4 and i was kinda thinking where is my phaeton loaner like i was promised but then again i was like let me give them a chance to set them selves up and establish the whole phaeton thing ,,,,,,

i am very disappointed in the fact that i cant seem to get any accessories on this car i mean when do they want me to buy it when i have a year left on my lease? vwguild2 maybe you can help me out here i am looking for accessories for the phaeton the VW web site says nada check back again later 877 phaeton says we will keep you posted bottom line is the phaeton is out almost a year and no avail, accessories yet,,,

also if anyone knows how i can see a picture of the 2005 phaeton which i heard has a different grille please post a link ...

GO PHAETON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanx

markcincinnati · September 2004

. . .for all of 2004 and part of 2003 two lonely Pheatons sat at my VW dealer (cleverly hidden from passers by, too, I might add). For the past three days, the inventory has decreased to one! I don't want to go too far out on a limb -- but this means either that they sold it to one of their customers or another dealer bought it from them and sold it -- or, wait a minute, I better drive through the parking lot and by the showroom, the only other thing that could have happened is that it was moved to the showroom floor.

Hmmm, possible sale, possible false alarm. Imagine the carrying cost on this thing. . . .

mauirick · September 2004

VW like ford chryser etc. are just tyring to cover the whole market....ford has cheep, inexpensive, mid price, high price and luxury cars......why wouldn't any MAJOR manufacturer want to do the same....even MB and BMW have lowered their price points with less expensive models to get a larger market share......VW has the low end down, now their working on the high end....it ain't rocket science its about $$$$$$$$$$$$$

markcincinnati · September 2004

I have been almost the lone (non VW rep or affiliate) champion of the Phaeton -- here and elsewhere (other than the actual customers that is.)

I agree.

The pity is that VW chose or was financially unwilling or unable to market the Phaeton. Both the Phaeton and the Touaregs here in River City have serious discounts off MSRP and yet they still move at the speed of chrome rusting.

The Phaeton and the W8 Passat were, IMHO, value propositions -- relatively speaking, bargains. The V10 diesel Touareg, not so much, again IMO.

The Phaeton has been orphaned either by VW or by the dealer community here in SW Ohio. Only the odd "Phaeton" for $599/mo ad (10,000 miles per year and a medium sized cap cost reduction from the customer and a large cap cost reduction one presumes from VW or VW+dealer make this happen).

These ads don't do much to promote the car, but to the informed must certainly scream BARGAIN. But, there's the rub -- few are informed about this car via the tried and true method of repeating and repeating a theme in print, radio and TV campaigns.

I am pleased that VW produced the Phaeton and am cheering it and its successors on -- I am frustrated that VW seems (almost) to be letting it die on the vine.

scottphillip · September 2004

My VW dealer doesn't carry them. I drove an hour to see the Phaeton. The salesman never called me to follow up. There is little incentive for me to buy one...

bobm1 · September 2004

Call the Phaeton hotline at 1-877-742-3866 to report this and see if they can accomodate you. If they can, ask them how they will handle the service so you don't have to drive an hour for that each time. I've had my Phaeton since Jan and am very happy with it. I agree that VW is doing a horrible job promoting this car.

chander · October 2004

I am in the market for a Phaeton which I test drove and love it,how would this compare with the new Acura RL,Is it a fair comparison can any one advise..

bobm1 · October 2004

The RL is not in the same league as the Phaeton. The RL compares more closely to the Audi A6 and BMW 5 series where the Phaeton compares to the Audi A8 and BMW 7 series. I've had my Phaeton for 9 months now and I still have a strong passion for it. Ask Acura owners how they feel about their cars. Good luck!

PS: Drive them both for an extended time before you decide.

scottphillip · October 2004

The RL is much smaller, and will probably handle much better. It is reputed (2005) to have a really good navigation system, which the Phaeton doesn't have. The RL also has good resale, which the Phaeton does not.

markcincinnati · October 2004

Not an apples to apples. Phaeton is a more lux A8L, more or less. Has lousy resale, but on a lease, who cares --- discounts are steep and deep.

Car with the Audi 4.2 engine and 6 speed tip is a jewel from where I sit.

It is BIG, way bigger than an RL.

The warranty and service program will protect thee -- get a 39 or less month lease and love it to death or 50,000 miles whichever comes first.

If it is of high quality, re up the VW warranty at 49,999 miles to 100,000 miles and keep on smiling.

The nav system on the Acura is a 10, on the VW it will be a 7 or an 8 at best. But, guess what, it works and with the newest map, you will hardly think you've been short changed.

Volkswagen Phaeton

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