Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

andres3 · July 2013

It would be nice if that really happened - city (and its well paid "servants") acts up, it gets boycotted and financially murdered.

That's really the best way to fight back! The city reacted quickly before being murdered and ended the camera speed ticketing immediately. A judge from the area helped with that by being honest and decrying the system they put in place as "a money grab."

The speed limit is still under-posted however.

They raised sales tax in CA Jan 1. People have "boycotted" purchases, and revenues for the state are down this year despite the .25% increase. CA has reacted by raising gas tax 3 cents per gallon July 1, which is even harder to avoid.

Also, CA is a leader in the let's tax the internet crowd.

euphonium · July 2013

Why can't people understand speed has nothing to do with most deaths?
Your answer when you click on this.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/5RAaW_1FzYg?autoplay=1&modestbranding=1&rel=0&showi- nfo=0

fintail · July 2013

A judge was honest about camera motivations? That has to be a first. I'd have less issue with traffic law enforcement strategy if the powers that be would finally admit to most of their reasoning. It's money.

All of the issues in CA and still no mass exodus. No room to the north, so go east, please :shades:

fintail · July 2013

I'm not sure what videos of wacky driving situations in a relatively undeveloped country full of drivers who are relatively new to motoring have to do with speed. The problem in Russia isn't speed. Speed doesn't make old trucks randomly fall apart, or people make left turns from the right lane (those who seem to be the biggest Russian problem areas) etc. Most problems in that collection along with most Russian dashcam videos are inattention and poor planning.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

Oh, Americans. We want a perfect world but we don't want to pay anything for it.

Our tax rate vs. GPD is # 30 out of the 33 countries forming the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). (Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan, Korea, Mexico, etc.).

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

However, when an accident DOES occur at very high speeds, the results are proportionately gruesome.

fintail · July 2013

Winners today - typical cab driver in a Prius, varying between 10 under and 10 over, using the whole lane, and at red lights would initially stop way back behind the car in front of him, and slowly creep up during the red duration. Why do people do that?

On foot saw two dumb SUV drivers - one a woman in a Lexus LX who tried to take a free right turn in front of an oncoming left turn lane who had green. Traverse approaching her honked, she let up and then started going again (!), Traverse honked again, I think to protect the scooter behind it, and the halfwit in the LX honked back. Kid in the passenger seat gave me a look like "I don't know her".

And another woman in an Acadia, phone to her ear, crowds a green signaled crosswalk with several pedestrians in it. Time for SUV license endorsement requirements, they make a demographic who too often lacks logic and accountability become even worse.

stever · July 2013

slowly creep up during the red duration. Why do people do that?

Obviously afraid that one of "those" people will rear end them while they are yakking on their smart phone.

fintail · July 2013

I think it is more of a problem with poor spatial awareness. Like the people who need 17 attempts to park in a wide open space.

stever · July 2013

Well, if you're the last in line and you stack yourself up in traffic and then see some yahoo bearing down on you, you don't leave yourself much of an out to try to get out of their way.

fintail · July 2013

I don't think weavy varying speed Prius cab driver had the foresight to plan against being rear ended. There's a difference between giving yourself an out, and stopping way too far behind, and then creeping up a few inches at a time.

Besides, I was behind him, also stopped.

stever · July 2013

When I get a "buffer" behind me, I creep up. Knowing cabbies, the driver probably wanted some room to cut in the next lane in case someone ahead stalled out.

fintail · July 2013

But a buffer in front of you? Do you stop and then creep up every several seconds? No way to cut ahead, it was a turn only lane - and it's 2013, stalling cars aren't common anymore :shades:

Funny, once we rounded the corner, he crawled, I passed on the right, I made the next light, he didn't.

stever · July 2013

Well, stalling drivers would be more apt. Dropped cigarette, dropped phone, dropped donut, spilled Starbucks. :shades:

andres3 · July 2013

That assumes that the high speeds were not mitigated at all. Kind of like closing your eyes for 45 seconds until you run into a tree at 100 MPH. Even terrible drivers that rear-end others more often slam the brakes dissipating some "high speed" prior to crashing.

Can you even give an example of a high speed crash other than a head-on collision that doesn't involve some form of inattention (like driving into a brick wall?).

andres3 · July 2013

I'm not in the wanting a perfect world without paying for it crowd. I'd like people to start paying taxes, especially rich people that can afford it and avoid it the most.

I believe CA Cal Trans spending on roadways is in the top 5 of 50 States but our quality of roads is bottom 5 of 50.

The problem is getting our monies worth, not that we aren't paying anything for it!!!!!

andres3 · July 2013

Looked like a bunch of low speed collisions to me.

andres3 · July 2013

To be fair, I think the judge was from a neighboring town and was ticketed. At least he didn't do like other judges and ask for the ticket to be forgotten and illegally disposed of.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

It's not a matter of attention in many cases, I don't think--many drivers are simply not competent enough to drive a car at high speed---bluntly, they don't know their ashtray from their elbow. Certainly we see abundant evidence of this in SUV single-car rollovers. (swerve at high speed and....FLIPPO!)

Other errors include incorrect time/distance/speed calculation, braking in a high speed turn, hydro-planing, mechanical failures.

fintail · July 2013

But why do they swerve? A panic reaction due to inattention.

For the SUVs, the laws of physics + iffy engineering can be at play, too.

I'd still like to see mass or size based license endorsements.

fintail · July 2013

Two dummies stick in my head today. First, middle aged guy in a Sienna, driving it like it's a sportscar - flooring it, abrupt lane changes, etc. Frustrations of driving the mommymobile when a Porsche or motorcycle passes by, maybe. He also dumped a drink out his window at a stoplight. Stay classy. Second one was aging yuppie in a late model 750Li xDrive, going 10-15 over the flow of traffic, weaving around (at least one lane change per minute) and NEVER signaled. I can deal with some speeding, but no signal is the pinnacle of roundel douchiness. I wonder what a real "deterrent" fine would be.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

They swerve because they have no training..it's what a rookie does, same as swinging at bad pitches. They over-correct, over-react.

i think it's more than inattention, I really do.

andres3 · July 2013

Definitely a combination of things. Mainly driver panic which is driver error.

If you are driving an SUV you should be aware it doesn't handle like a 911.

If you are driving an SUV you should know what the limits of its handling abilities are.

That way drivers won't try to do the impossible. Braking in a high speed turn isn't necessarily an error (hard braking probably, but some braking might increase forward traction reduce under-steer).

It's funny that often the so-called "speeders" I see are in SUV's that take much longer to stop from higher speeds than the 3,300 pound R8's I rarely see.

elias · July 2013

finny, taking offense while driving or elsewhere is a *feeling*. An emotion.
One can respond to one's feelings with consideration or the opposite - with *inconsideration* as we so often see described here, or espoused here.

for example, some inconsiderate drivers respond by deciding whether richy rich driver's wealth was 'earned' or not - and then they elect candidates who help the govt take away more and more of richy rich's wealth/income/anything!

please establish a forum where folks can consult with you and the other arbiters of whether wealth/cars/home/whatever was "earned' or not. I'll be the first to post there - want to find out for sure whether I deserved what i used to have, and what I've still got before its all taxed&epreciated away.

long live the 1% ! and as for us-all 53-percenters, let's not let the 47-percenters get us down, nor any of the self-hating 53% either.

drive considerate of everything about the other driver/car: skill/capability/income-level/kids/dogs/whatever!

cheers !

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

In my case, the *emotion* is from nearly being killed by someone. If they aren't doing anything wrong or stupid or incredibly rude, I really don't care what they earned or deserve. But if they are trying to kill me, I don't feel I have to the time to carefully sort the flood of emotions that might seize me at that moment.

stever · July 2013

In related news, some places peg speeding fines to income.

Finn's speed fine is a bit rich (BBC)

170,000 Euros is a lot of sausage.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

he can afford it. 170,000 Euros is like "free" to a person that rich. If you have 10 billion bucks, a new Corvette is like you or I spending a dollar.

fintail · July 2013

And when inconsiderate richie rich is acting like an idiot on public roads, I'll continue to make observations. It's an occupational hazard - if the local trust fund and investor visa gang doesn't like it, they are free to take their idiocy to a private track where it belongs. When you're out there flaunting for all to see, you have to take the good and the bad. I suspect most of them have thicker skin than the oversensitive few here who can't stand to see gold questioned, no matter how illegitimate it may be.

As if elections change any of it, puhlease :P

fintail · July 2013

Indeed, if fines are meant to be deterrents, then they need to vary along with the level of deterrence. Average worker in his Civrolla is a lot more deterred by a $120 fine than Mr Inheritance (oh no, I am sure he "built it") n his supercar.

Although in that linked case, it does seem a bit much for a 40kph violation - would need to know circumstances. Empty road etc.

euphonium · July 2013

Pegging fines to financial status is not within the American way of life. Have you ever wondered why Lady Justice wears a blindfold.

elias · July 2013

best wishes for good fortune and safety in the future - glad you made it through the accident/near-miss/everything, MrShift - I hope everyone involved was fortunate and OK somehow.

indeed there is an emotional reaction since we are human drivers - especially if current drivers cause reaction to previous incident.
this happened to me also through friends' tragedies a couple decades ago.

best wishes for safety out there folks.

safety on road is the really top #1 thing to be considerate about out there, each according to one's ability to consider !

sincerely, preacher elias
(preachin to the choir? ok, maybe there's just 1 choir member out there, the smallest choir ever! ) .

stever · July 2013

Lady Justice was originally not blindfolded, it was a latter adaption (hm, wonder who paid to have the statute redone? Sounds like Swiss bankers). (Wiki)

She's balancing the scales of truth and fairness, and doesn't seem to have any issue with the fairness of our progressive tax code. So I think an argument can be made for a sliding scale fine structure.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2013

correct---Lady Justice is IMPARTIAL, that's why she is blind.

Rules are meant to be broken--that's why they put the rules in place initially. If there was no crime in that area, there would be no rule.

BAD rules are completely ignored by everyone and then cease to exist.

GOOD rules generally improve the situation

MOST rules seem to deliver a mixed bag of results.

However, since the death penalty doesn't seem to be all that much of a deterrent, I'm not sure stiff fines will deter chronic speeders who are rich...

or perhaps to some people being broke is worse than being dead? :P

stever · July 2013

I'm still fighting the ticket I got in Memphis in 1979 for taking a cow up in a balloon. :P

fintail · July 2013

Today I am on a 35mph 4 lane arterial with a center turn lane divided by low concrete barriers at designated turn spots. A little ways up, a Sonata makes a free right turn, wobbles and swerves real wide, and heads for the barrier - I was certain it was either going to hit the barrier or go into the oncoming lane, and I slowed down to avoid the shrapnel. At the last second, the "driver" veers off his crash course, and starts heading up the left lane, going about 25. I reach him and start to pass, going no more than 40. Lo and behold, this gets him to hit the gas, and by the time my front window is at his front end, he's hitting the gas hard. I lay on it enough to downshift, he gives up around 45-50, and he backs off. WTH? Such typical passive-aggressive crap for this area. Should have called him in as a suspected drunk, but I think he was just eating behind the wheel.

ronsteve · July 2013

Well, actually two. I rolled up to a red light this afternoon and was the 3rd car in line. I was in the "left" lane, with one vehicle between me and a Ford Exploder that was straddling between that lane and the dedicated left turn lane. There was also a decent queue forming in the right lane, even though it runs out just a couple hundred yards past the light.

On the left arrow (thankfully others came up in the left turn lane to trigger it) the Exploder made his left turn, and my lane edged up accordingly, so I was then alongside a Dodge Durango. The getaway was a bit slow in both lanes when the light turned green. I might have had a nose on the Durango, but not much room in front of me because the car ahead of me let the first right-lane vehicle merge in front of him. As soon as that happened, the guy in the Durango gassed it up just enough to pull clear of my front bumper, and then helped himself to the spot in front of me... NO SIGNAL... ON THE BRAKES! I laid on the horn, braked, and cheated over into the center-left-turn (aka suicide) lane. And then he brake-checked me again!

Of course, in my current post-bike-wreck condition, my sole option had he chosen to escalate things would have been to trick him into getting out of his vehicle, and then bailing at a high rate of speed, running him over if necessary.

fintail · July 2013

I got to honk a few times this morning. First time, wide 6 lane arterial where a highway exits onto it. An Acura TL enters the arterial from the exit ramp (and he's still going 40 in a 30)~, cuts across three lanes aiming for the far left lane, where I already am. Phone to his ear - which he drops just as I hit the brakes enough to feel the ABS engage.

Then get behind a woman I won't describe in an Accord going about 15-20 in a 30, who brakes, then signals, then gets into a turn lane. Don't tip that thing over!

Then on another big arterial, posted at 35 with a center turn lane. I am going the speed limit, left lane, a lifted F150 pulls out of a parking lot to my left and heads toward the center lane - which is fine as it is legal to pull out and wait to merge here. But, he doesn't wait, he just cuts over toward me, and fast. I honk, and he swerves back. I could see a kid in the passenger seat pointing out the car (me) he almost hit. After I pass and he merges, he drives pretty fast, just to get stuck in a turn lane backup. Time for license endorsements for these vehicles.

To the dopes on the road here, I also think my car looks like a beige Corolla or something - invisible. Is a bright white car with a black top and bight LED running lights that hard to see?

andres3 · July 2013

I hate people that accelerate from stoplights at a snails pace or merge onto freeways at dangerously low speeds because they don't have the muscle or brain power to press the throttle.

I got some joy yesterday coming home from work when someone did the opposite of dawdling from a stoplight. At a two lane left turn at a signaled intersection, when the light turned green, I was in the inside lane and accelerated briskly to say the least (that's my style). I was impressively passed by the 911 to my right taking the outside 90 degree turn left before the intersection was even completed by me.

Now that is how you accelerate and turn!

fintail · July 2013

You need to visit Seattle, especially the eastside suburbs. This area has by far, the slowest highway mergers I have ever seen. It's a rare day when you hit a wide open 60mph road at more than 45. Note to the timid and/or inept - when a 50 year old Mercedes is close on your tail, you're going too slow.

Something else irksome is on city streets, where local "drivers" floor it off the line, but run out of steam around 30-35, even if the limit is higher.

gogogodzilla · July 2013

I can only wish for people to accelerate up to 30-35mph from a stoplight before petering out.

Here, they get to 15mph, then slow down to 10mph... before taking the next half-mile to get up to 35mph.

andres3 · July 2013

I wonder if you could murder those type of drivers and claim self defense because going that slow below the speed limit you felt your life was in danger.

fintail · July 2013

Maybe it could be twisted into a "stand your ground" defense. In some areas anyway.

Had a pretty easy commute today, didn't see anything worse than a person who I let change lanes in front of me then dawdle at a crawl. Noticed the usual tons of phone holders while I was on foot though. I suppose why not, no enforcement to be seen.

fintail · July 2013

Driving on a one lane in each direction 30mph suburban street, turn lane in the middle. On the left I see a Sportage wanting to turn left out of a parking lot, and it slowly crawls out towards the center lane (legal to use it as a merging lane here). I let off the gas just a little, fearing the "driver" will just blindly come on over. Lo and behold, it happens - I hit the brake hard, lay on the horn hard, and miss her by a couple inches. I've said it a million times, time for license endorsements for any vehicle that sits high and has isolating visibility that encourages distraction. Probably some inherent issues with the "driver" too, but I will refrain in order not to offend the bleeding hearts.

Otherwise, pretty easy going here the last couple days, other than inherent slowness. Took a ~200 mile highway drive yesterday, few LLCs, a few more MLCs, and a Canadian bus that was going 70mph in a 60.

andres3 · July 2013

I don't think you have a right to go super slow (below slow limit) on the freeway exit lane just because the speed of traffic is low to the left. Campers in the left lane should not lower the speed limit in the right lane; traffic allowing of course.

fintail · July 2013

On foot this morning, see a woman in a rental Altima make a dumb left turn out of a hotel parking lot, mobile device in hand, completely distracted. She pulls into a left turn lane about a block ahead, and stops for the blinking yellow turn light (no oncoming traffic). Civic comes up behind her and honks, which wakes her up - but by that time they both miss the light. And where is the enforcement? A couple blocks down the road, where it is downhill - speedtrapping. Serve and protect! Saw numerous other phone holders out there too, but I guess the "servants" know what is best.

andres3 · July 2013

speaking of ill allocated enforcement, was on the 125 North and 125 South going from La Mesa to Santee and back yesterday.

On the way up my radar detector goes off and sure enough there's a CHP guy standing up outside and alongside his car with a big radar gun just after an upper ridge on the downhill slope.

This 125 freeway section is the least congested freeway in San Diego County, and hence, the 65 MPH speed limit is absurdly low.

20 minutes later, I'm on my way back down 125 South, and I tell my Wife no way he's in the same spot as he wouldn't waste 20 minutes generating revenue. My radar detector goes off, I'm about to eat my words, but then he's on the other side of the freeway now doing the same thing.

This time he's more visible because it's a long downhill stretch on the other side. Radar detector saw him before we could see each other though. I'm sure he just ticketed someone on the other side, took the next off ramp to turn around and set up camp.

On the freeway which needs the least amount of enforcement in all of San Diego County.......

fintail · July 2013

You probably see that more in the latter half of the month, too. But if you ask, there's no such thing as quotas! It's all about protecting and serving. Thank heavens they do this for our own good. Think of the children!

backy · July 2013

Agreed. Driving slower than the "slow limit" is not only inconsiderate, it's illegal.

One could say the same thing though about driving faster than the "fast limit" just because someone wants to do it.

andres3 · July 2013

Ah, but therein lies the difference.

I can go from LA to NY at 100 MPH in the fast lane and never impede your progress to the right lane and the SL you adhere to + or - 1 MPH. :P

If you get in the left lane you will indeed impede my progress.

backy · July 2013

You weren't talking about someone driving in the left lane, but in the "exit" lane. There, they won't impede your progress, as you can use another lane.

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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