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From the Detroit News. Ford's own hometown paper!
"Ford's CVT, a gutless -- I mean, gearless -- transmission used belts and pulleys to improve fuel economy. But it also made the car sound like poorly played bagpipes by keeping the engine at higher-than-normal sound revs."
Love your CVT all you want. But Ford would have been crazy to continue using it. Despite it's merits, it got lousy reviews, it was too expensive to build, and most Ford customers simply didn't want it.
The CVT makes the best use of the engine's power, and keeps it wide open under acceleration as the transmission ratios change. Because of the stepless CVT, there are no discrete shifts, for very smooth operationhttp://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/02/22/000751.html
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We really like the combination of the engine and the CVT. Very smooth and just enough power and plenty when you need it for passing. Fuel mileage has been about 22 combined and 26+ on the one trip we took so far at highway speeds. http://www.edmunds.com/ford/freestyle/2007/consumerreview.html
The article that you posted, which was negative on the CVT simply states that one author's opinion. The other articles I pulled from a quick Google search were just to show how easy it is to find articles supporting whatever point of view you want.
I would contend that the CVT or some type of continuous transmission will be the transmission of the future because of the points in the "ancient" 3 year old articles.
What better evidence do I need other than both are gone after only three years?
as for the market.... baaaahhhhh... must have traditional automatic....cannot wrap brain around the idea that anything else might be better.... must be like everyone else.
it's always safer to follow...the problem with that is that is exactly what has gotten ford into the mess it's in, following. they lead the market with the f150/variants, they have design talent hidden somewhere, they are just managed by idiots that see the safe route as the way out of this mess. the taurus lead the mid size sedan market when introduced originally, they need another one of those or there is no coming back. ford needs some singular vision at the helm not boardroom consensus for the route out.
ford's seen as an idiot and oft criticized for adopting it in part of its line yet you hear no one complaining that it has been adopted by audi, dodge, nissan, subaru(abroad), gm & others. I guess the great idea of infinite gearing between high/low ratios escapes the market. a limited amount of gears with more moving parts must be a better solution to the technological question of how to get the power to the road in 80% of the driving americans do.
the cvt failed for a big reasons the fs did, poorly marketed by dealers that didn't know what they were and took no time to educate themselves or the customers about the benefits. combine a dumb name(FS) with bs reviews about it being underpowered(inaccurrate as it was faster than its competition when introduced) and you have not helped a great product have even a good shot at success.
the cvt is a bit soft off the line, that's the only downside to it and that's not even that big of a deal as its a CUV not a drag racer.
the market is more of a you can lead a sheep to water but you can't make it drink kind of thing...to its detriment...
The Detroit News comment I quoted is from 8 days ago.
Yes, the marketing of the Freestyle was very badly botched. We agree there. In fact, I feel that it was an absolute textbook case in how not to bring a new vehicle to market. Lets hope Billy-boy plays a awful lot of golf, and just lets Mr. Mullaly run things from here on.
that review is more than a little suprise then as what's the point of it with the fact teh FS is dead and the T-reX takes that corner of ford's cuv attack. sounds like someone at ford peed his wheaties as opposed to any real and impartial review of a cvt.
Eaxctly - look how long it took to get rid of push rods. Nobody want to be a pioneer. There are only a few manufacturers (or maybe none now) left willing to try and pull the market.
Correlation does not imply causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Read the paragraph on the link.
ford didn't educate it's dealers about how to sell this thing yet alone it customer's and its advantages. Any customer who found/bought one had to go find the info in print or web, read it, and then pursue the test drive. the other scenario I suspect was a salesman trying to save a sale. He's watching an explorer person who just realized they weren't what they wanted so on the way to the exit the saelsman says oh by the way I have this over here... that was the biggest cause of this debacle...
the cvt is not causing nissan, dodge, gm, toyota, audi, or any other manufacturer who uses it from selling its cars. maybe if they embraced the difference from the start as opposed to keeping it the red headed stepchild of the transmission division.
You might try a course in logic.
ford didn't educate it's dealers about how to sell this thing yet alone it customer's and its advantages
Actually, my local dealer here DID encourage me to FLOOR the accelerator when I was driving it, to see what it could do.
Reminder to self: don't buy any from there that have any miles on them.
I don't see how it's such a complicated subject: want to go faster? push on accelerator more. Pretty simple, really. :P
I believe you are correct at this time, but hybrids do not require CVT. The Honda Insight and the Honda Civic hybrids were both available with stick shift as well as CVT. I don't think the MT is available any more on the Civic, however. The Insight is discontinued for 2008.
All "FULL HYBRIDS" on the market right now use a CVT. The same one actually from Aisen.
Honda and GM make a "Mild Hybrid" and therefore can use a different trans.
Full Hybrid = full electric motor only launch and full regenerative braking.
Mild hybrid = electric ASSIST launch and mild regenerative braking.
This is a basic design difference. The Civic Hybrid is a great little car that gets really great MPG. But you can buy a new Ford Focus for about $10,000 less. That buys a lot of gas.
Mark.
Mechanics always spew stuff like this. :P
"Mechanics" like these are another piece to the puzzle of why the American public don't seem to want a CVT in their car. Give Ford credit for trying it anyway.
No one is dialoging about how reliable the throttle-by-wire system is in the Freestyle / Taurus X. Isn't that also unproven? I think it is pretty good, personally. Many people didn't know they were driving without a mechanical throttle cable. In fact, many couldn't tell.
Certain things become hot topics because people fear the unknown. If I didn't read in Automotive Week about the engineering that went into this CVT, and note that Ford has been using CVTs in Europe for years before the Freestyle was born, I might have been more concerned.
Having driven a 6-speed Milan with 3.0 L V6, it is also soft off the line, and has similar gas mileage to the Freestyle. The Milan/Fusion is selling well. The number one comment I get on my Freestyle is not about the CVT, but, "What is it - I have never heard of it". :shades:
To me, the CVT seems far simpler than a traditional automatic transmission. So it would seem to me that it would proven even MORE reliable.
I think the CVT was a BOLD MOVE! Too bad they bailed on it. I love it! I hope they bring it back.
Actually, my local dealer here DID encourage me to FLOOR the accelerator when I was driving it, to see what it could do.
Reminder to self: don't buy any from there that have any miles on them.
My salesman actually demonstrated the unique quality of the CVT by throwing it into REVERSE at about 15 mph to show how it would just slow down all by itself, and then "change directions." Maybe so, but my brain couldn't handle it and I wouldn't buy anything off his lot! I wonder how many people he ran off with that demo?
There is a detent button under the throttle that is only compressed when the pedal is floored.
The purpose of the button is to tell the CVT to drop to the ratio that will give maximum power for acceleration.
Remember there is no direct cable connection from the pedal to the throttle. Its all electronic.
You need to think of the gas pedal as if it was a dimmer on an electric light. When you want full power you floor it. It is suppose to work that way.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Mark.
Well, I didn't realize that Ford also used that transmission...
I would also like to point out that you could buy a Ford Focus for about the same (or larger) $10000 than a Prius. I'm not sure what you have been reading for prices, but the Civic Hybrid can be had for around 20K.
When comparing the two types of hybrids, it is also good to note that the Civic Hybrid can operate without the electric drive; the HSD type systems cannot work without the electric components...
the escape hybrid uses the aisin unit but the FS does not...
Hope I made a right choice. Will post my impressions after first week of driving.
The second most expensive item most people will buy and they get what they don't want because its a left over...and a few bucks less...
Mark
I'm a little befuddled as to why you would not have opted for the '07 as the interest rate was hugely better and at .06% it wouldn't have mattered when you paid it off as you can't go get money out there much cheaper. Even with the $1k difference, the leather would have been worth it and the advantage of the rate is soooo much better. It would have been a wash at worst and the FS would have gotten you better mpg.
regardless, glad to hear you are happy with your ride and color, but as stated I'm still a bit baffled... enjoy...
My calculations were that if I resale 2007 Freestyle in 5 years I will most likely get about 3.000-5.000 less than for 2008 Taurus X - which should make up for MGP difference.
Maybe I am wrong but only time will tell...
I had the 2005 SEL and the CVT died twice and other issues. Ford took it back. I am thinking of Taurus X, because other cars I drove to test did not come close to the stability of FS, but I am afraid of quality and dealer proftioncy in fixing it.
Any encouregment?
I just spent 5 days and 1,400 miles with a Taurus X with the new 3.5L and 6-speed automatic - cumulative mileage for freeway (85%) and city (15%) driving was 28.8MPG, not bad in my book. The 6-speed is excellent, and the torque and overall power and quietness of the new 3.5L is very impressive.