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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Happy Birthday! Here's a link to celebrate (it's that long term road test for March).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Hmmmm, 4adodge, I wish my kids had your attitude truly. My son will only take the van out at night or really early in the morning to gas it up in fear of being seen in the "shiny wheeled loaf of bread."

    Since my wife doesn't really need the T&C anymore (I know it's still fairly new) and I want a navigation system AND luxury, the new Acura MDX is looking more tempting.

    That would mean no more potential Chrysler worries that I hear abut from friends, the news, Dateline, etc. I'm sorry but potential fuel leaks, potential failed seat belts, and who knows what next is finally starting to bug me. In my first van, it was the opening rear hatch. If I still had my second van, it would be the fuel rail leak and weak seat belts. In my present van, it's the potential fuel leak in a crash and the weak rear seat belts.

    I may like Chrysler, which I still do, (I've had 3) but I'm finally getting a LITTLE tired of Chrysler that after nearly 20 years in the business, their vans are still popping up with little problems, not to mention all the potentially deadly problems that have and still are surfacing. Who knows what next will be found potentially deadly or wrong on the Chryslers? It seems there is always something newly found wrong with them when talked about in the news and such.

    The point is, while yes I've praised my last two vans for their reliability (for my family), luxury, and utility, there are still the blaring facts that Chrysler does not put out the safest minivan it could be and after 20 years, you'd think they'd be able to come up with at least a van that could hold their passengers in a crash. (Yes, I know, there aren't any hard facts right now about that, but when was the last time a Toyota or Honda was accused of somehting as deadly as that) Call it media hype, whatever, it's starting to get to me.

    The Acura MDX has all the space we need, a navigation system, Honda reliability/safety, comparable luxury (I can live without the power liftgate), and it actually holds its value. It would get my last kid to college well, and I think my wife and I realize that the kids aren't 3 and 8 anymore, and we really don't need another van.

    Considering my youngest is 17 with his own car, and we've been driving Chrysler minivans for nearly 15 years, both my wife and me feel it's time for a change...plus my son would actaully drive the new car :-) We'll see...
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    I, too, hope to "graduate" from a minivan soon, into a Crown Victoria or anything that's not a truck.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    You forgot to mention one of the best features of the MDX: It has the same 66.1" track as Odyssey, and has the lowest rollover risk of any SUV by quite a bit. The similar Honda Pilot goes on sale this summer, too.
  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Yes, the Acura MDX may be "one of those damn SUV's," but it drives better than my van (I test drove a Touring w/Navigation), amazingly gets a 4 star tip over rating vs. my 3 star van rating, and manages to get the same mileage even with a stronger engine.

    I like the Honda Pilot, too, for it has a very attractive price and you do get a lot of content. Plus, it is a little larger than the MDX.

    Yet after having two fairly loaded T&C's, I've become accustomed to the trip computer, memory, heated seats, etc., that my last two vans have had. I know, it's a big price to pay for those things, but that was the very reason why I never could justify getting the Odyssey. It was too spartan for me :-)

    Anyway, I do have to say the MDX has a lot more style flair IMHO than the sorta boxy Honda Pilot. I'll just have to check out this summer and compare the two, becaue I'm pretty sure it will come down to a Honda Pilot or MDX for next year when our lease is up on the T&C.

    BTW, leases on new Chryslers I've noticed are NOT attractive at all anymore. I'm probably going to buy my next car, though. Renting a car for 2-3 years is sorta nice, but I want to go back to being able to say I OWN my car.
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    I know that 4aododge is a high school student who has many remarkable qualities beyond his tenacity. I was just curious if he'd graduated yet.

    Yes, I used to contribute here regularly. Not necessarily in a positive way at times.
  • sweingastsweingast Member Posts: 28
    Maybe I was being pre-emptive too quickly. I didn't want to start a flame war.

    To add to this conversation I would like to mention one area both vehicles lack, the spare tire. The best would be a full size internal tire like most sedans.

    The T&C has a full size that is kept under the rear. Pain to lower and replace.

    The Ody has a internal minispare but no place to keep the old tire.

    Couldn't DC make the spare internal? Couldn't Honda increase the area for a full size spare. These vehicles cost between $25,000 - $30,000 and are the largest minivans.

    Which of these two are better?
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    Do you have a two years lease on your T&C? I thought you have the van around this time last year. Oh well, I think you are right about not needing a minivan with kids all grownup. For me, I still have a long way to go and I probably will get another van before switching back to a sedan. Hopefully in 6 or 7 years, all car makers will have a nice looking and reliable minivans for me to pick from instead of Honda vs. DC again.
  • csvipersahcsvipersah Member Posts: 15
    I think something that most parents overlook when their kids go to college is moving. These kids will be moving form dorm to dorm, and fraternity to fraternity. That's why we're getting a minivan in PREPARATION for college because being able to throw everyhting in a minivan is quite useful instead of having to rent a UHALL all the time.
  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Yes, my lease was only a two year one, because I figured I get a new car quicker, and I get a monthly car allowance from my company that more than covers it. I still though don't like the feeling of not owning your car, regardless of who's paying for the rental fee.

    Yes, the minivan is nice for getting kids to college, having already taken one with it, but the Acura MDX is more than suitable. Not only does it have the versatile fold flat seats in both rows, with its the third seat down, it only has 6 cu. ft. less of cargo when the third seat is taken out in the van.

    I think I'll do all right. Trust me, my wife and me, while still having good luck, want a change. 15 years with Chrysler minivans has been great, but it'll soon be time for something a little different.
  • tj_610tj_610 Member Posts: 132
    Haven't checked in for a while. 4aodge, good to see you back. I hate to say it, but I think of you when I see the new Caravan commercial when the guy shows up for his prom date. Hilarious. I, too, graduated high school long ago, and "wish I knew then what I know now", including the joys of van ownership LOL.

    odd1, you are right on about the pickup truck boards. I'm shopping for a truck, and gave up trying to have fun on the Pickups Town Hall. Uptight and defensive, especially when Tundra is brought up.

    dave210, you are right on about the MDX. I test drove one when shopping for our Odyssey. If you don't need the extra room, and can spend a few thousand more, I highly recommend it. FWIW, the driver seat is more comfortable than our Ody.
  • swampcollieswampcollie Member Posts: 87
    A 93 that is fast approaching its 10th birthday.. and a 99 GCS. I can only give my experience.. the 93 owes us nothing.. it has been a great vehicle.. it now has to sit outside and endure the elements, but we still drive it daily.. we both drive it to work..and make many other trips in it..it has been very very reliable.. we had to replace the starter at about 92k... the experience we were having with the 93 was the determining factor in buying the 99...so far it has been every bit as reliable..it has more "stuff" on it and we use it for longer trips..
    we drove several before we bought and we went back to DC. please note..I am not saying anything negative about any other brand.. I just know my experience and it has been very very positive with DC vans..
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    DC have better stereo, easier use roof rack. Had 96 grand caravan, not much slower Odyssey. had better low end torque.. Competition help all get better van next time.
  • crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    Odyssey and DC both bigger than PT Cruiser. PT Cruiser have classic styling and flexible interior. Why me talking this way?
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    After over a year of reading Carlton's posts I don't think ody01 writes like him in any way. Besides Carlton is a fairly avowed, yet reasonable, D/C man.

    I have been concerned over people mixing ody01 and me, odd1, up due to the similar screen names. But, I decided not to change my screen name since I've been using it over a year now.
  • rhwoodpeckerrhwoodpecker Member Posts: 26
    I have a '96 T&C purchased new. Only 51,000 miles because we don't trust it on the road. One alternator, one water pump, two serpentine belts, warped rotors, misaligned front door, one bad sliding door, one bad middle seat that wouldn't stay down, and three recalls are not my idea of a pleasant experience. This doesn't include the various little things like broken plastic latches and peeling paint on handles and luggage rack. I have a Suburban now and I am keeping my fingers crossed. I am looking at Honda to replace the Chrysler and will probably make the switch. Toyota is a touch too small.
  • bdickerbdicker Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone seen the T&C XL touring addition. Trying to compare that with the Ody LX with leather and dvd. $2000 dollar difference for the Ody. Any thoughts??????
  • stacystacy Member Posts: 91
    Read the posts on safety. Crash tests. Seat belt failure. Many articles, news reports. Enough said.
    PS Thats the EX w/ leather that you will want and if you value your family's life, its worth every penny of that 2 grand more.
    BTW - for all you T & C fans - Just my 2 cents.
  • lsclsc Member Posts: 210
    That just sucks. You figure that after repair number zillion that nothing else will go wrong but once it breaks, it just keeps on breakin'.

    I'd get the Odyssey too if I were you, good move. Sienna is a bit small and you don't want to deal w/ Toyota sales/service either. They are awful.
  • steelengsteeleng Member Posts: 71
    Am I the only one that is confused by the IIHS safety ratings. The DC vans for 2001 & 2002 get poor ratings for the right leg/foot and the Odyssey for 1999-2002 gets good ratings. However if you look at a comparison of the occupant compartment intrusion measures they are almost identical across the board.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    The DC crash dummy had bigger feet.
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    pat84 nice sense of humor. Odyssey much more luggage space and more power than DC minivan. DC minivan nice looking. Both much better mileage than some smaller minivan with less power.
  • JPhamJPham Member Posts: 148
    Ody01-wan,

    You need to put -conclusions- to your blurbs.
    "Odyssey much more luggage space and more power than DC minivan. DC minivan nice looking. Both much better mileage than some smaller minivan with less power." yeah, and so?????
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    Conclusion: Odyssey best minivan. Chrysler close 2nd. Odyssey most power, most space, very good gas mileage. Chrysler most attractive, have more nice feature, 2nd most power, good gas mileage.
    Chrysler need Magic Seat to tie Odyssey best minivan.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    It just may be that personal choice determines which minivan is best for that individual.
    Insignificant differences in gas mileage, magic seats, HP ratings may really be very low on some peoples requirements priorities Just a thought..
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    You could put down questionable reliablily instead of magic seats. Many people don't need magic seats
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    Odyssey and Chrysler most desireable minivan but no recent minivan bad. All minivans better than any SUV. Many companies make nice minivans. Minivans more interior space, use less gas, cost less money unless person get too small SUV. Large SUV pollute air, waste resources, danger to most vehicle. Government needs gas guzzler tax on large SUV.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    ahem, I think I have just the topic for you, Ody01 . (maybe two of them!).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • jasonrupjasonrup Member Posts: 13
    I have worked at the Canadian plant that builds the minivans for about four years now and I have seen what kind of product has gone through the lines with the old generation and the new. Needless to say, quality has improved greatly (of materials and build quality) and I would not hesitate whatsoever to purchase one for myself. Sure it doesn't have a fold down rear seat like some of the competition, but it's not that necessary and you are left with a nice sound resonating chamber when the seats are not folded down, and you are carrying all the extra seat weight around with you when they are folded under which reduces fuel economy. Chrysler has been unduly criticised for not having a small feature like this (meanwhile people have made due for 15+ years without it). The vans have great quality, no other manufacturer can match the number of features or variations in models that Chrysler can (there is a Caravan/Voyager/T&C for everyone); and no other manufacturer has the experience that Chrysler has in the minivan market. These are good products that are only getting better.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    Only you forgot to mention that the longer wheelbase, models, e.g. Grand Caravan, that most families want are made in St. Louis, not Canada.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I have never heard any sound coming from the rear of our Odyssey with or without the seat up or down. Also do you really think that 100 lbs. means anything in the gas mileage. Well maybe 1/20 of a percent or so which I would gladly give up not to get a hernia or worse lifting out that heavy DC seat.
    You also said "while people have made due for 15+ years without it." That could also be said for the lack of padded armrest, or the 3rd zone heating/cooling that Odyssey don't have that the DC fans like to throw up in our face. What you did say that the DC fans backup and I for one am glad to hear is that the quality is getting better and better. Everyone wins on that.
  • ed12ed12 Member Posts: 100
    Canadian friend:

    Well done. I have had a 2002 T&C AWD for three months now. You folks did an excellent job. Beautifully assembled. I measured the body seams and the worst fit was off by only 1 mm, most were fractions of a mm off. The trip computer is reporting 19 mpg in suburban driving, better than I expected.

    I have wanted a minivan for years, but I did not want to give up the good ride and handling of a modern sedan. This latest generation of Chrysler minvan, as well as the Ody, deliver a sedan driving experience combined with a versatility that no sedan can match.

    Please pass on a well done to your fellow workers who are doing such a terrific job. It is appreciated.

    Ed
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    My 2001 Odyssey also made in Canada. Love Magic Seat, most space passenger and luggage, most power any minivan, better gas mileage than any Chrysler, Ford, Kia, Mazda, Mercury, Nissan V6 minivan. GM only minivan better gas mileage but engine much less power.
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    Looked at Chyrlser and Dodge minivans at dealer. All Town and Country Chyrlser minivan and most Grand Caravan made in Canada. SE only Grand Caravan model dealer lot made in Fenton, MO. Voyager and Caravan made in Fenton, MO.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "Sure it doesn't have a fold down rear seat like some of the competition, but it's not that necessary and you are left with a nice sound resonating chamber when the seats are not folded down" snip.

    It's not just about a fold down seat my friend. There are lots of other differences between Honda and Dodge/Chrysler. Things like engine horsepower, 5 speed transmission, independent suspension, 4 wheel antilock disk brakes, side air bags, etc. Most importantly, there's the resale issue. Like it or not the van will be worth something whenever you decide to sell it. While build quality may be coming up on some vehicles (I'd rather not call them domestic, or U.S. autos because last time I checked, there really aren't any true domestics any more, especially with Diamler Benz in the ownership seat) it still is not enough to support higher resale values at any point in the depreciation curve.

    Lastly, the magic seat is a nice feature. Hard to grasp if you don't have it, but nice. Ever gone on a trip loaded to the max with your seat out, only to wish you had it in once you got to your destination? Ever gone to a store and on the spur of the moment decided to buy something that wouldn't fit in the back with the seat in there? Ever had to lug that seat out of there and pretend it's really no big deal? Features and options while nice to have, don't necessarily appeal to everyone in the same level of intensity. That's why there's a minivan out there for everyone!
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    It is nice to see this topic is alive again.
    does anyone have data on the 0-60 time and the passing on the new Ody and the DC?
    As for magic or non magic, it really depends on the situation that occurs the most in order to pick which vans is a better fit. If the van will carry 5 passengers all the time, I guess the magic seat or the bench seat in DC will lose its edge.
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Honda fans are crazy over the 240HP 3.5 V6 in the Odyssey. While it does produces more horespower in numbers, that does not mean it is necessarily the fastest. This is especially true when you consider at what RPM it gets those 240 horses which is almost as important as how much horespower it has in the first place.

    There were many who said back in 2000 that the Chrysler 3.8 while only making 180hp was comparable to the 210hp 3.5 on the Odyssey. And they were right. While the old and new Chrysler 3.8 is less refined than the Ody 3.5, they produce more torque at lower RPMs than the Ody which really gives it an edge and they don't have to work as hard for it either.

    Granted, I have never driven a Honda Odyssey with any of the newer engines. But from my experience with my friend's 2001 Accord EX coupe 4 cyl and review's I've read, I can say with certainty that you have to really steep on a Honda VTEC engine to make it go. Personally, I would rather take it easy on the RPMs with an engine (like Chrysler's) that might not be as sophisticated and refined but doesnt have to roar to 3,500 to 4,000 RPMs to really get going when I want it to.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Depends on what the redline is. Our Odyssey redlines at 6500 and is built to rev. If the 02's make 240 HP at 3500 that means the engine is only running at about 1/2 of what it can. On the other hand the DC engines which are old and outdated can't handle those kinds of revs and knowing all the trouble DC has had in the past with there automatics I doubt you will see any HP increases until they spend some money on a new automatic.
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    Increased HP and torque in 2002 Odyssey and 2001 Chrylser come at higher RPM than prior models.
    MY 2001 Odyssey 210 HP @ 5200 RPM. 229 Torque @ 4300 RPM with Redline 6200 RPM.
    2002 Chrlyser also need higher RPM than 2000 Chrlyser. 2002 3.8L 215 HP @ 5000 RPM with Redline 6500 RPM (Chrylser brochure) vs 2000 3.8L 180 HP @ 4300 RPM with Redline at 6000 RPM.
    2002 3.8L 245 Torque @ 4000 RPM vs 2000 3.8L 240 Torque @ 3300 RPM.
    According to brochure dash photo, 2002 Chrylser higher redline than 2001 or 2002 Odyssey.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Ody V-tech kicks in at around 3,800 - 4,000 rpm. There's plenty of revs left as redline is 6500. Zero to 60 for an 02 Odyssey is 7.7 sec. 4aDodge, I'll race you for pink slips any time. Your dad won't be too happy losing his T&C:-). Seriously though, you should really drive an Ody so you have some basis for comparison. Hard to argue too many points if you've never driven the vehicle. BTW - I've driven lots of Dodge/Chrysler minivans. Never owned one though - that says something.

    Here's the link to the 0-60 times if you don't believe me: http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20838.htm
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    "On the other hand the DC engines which are old and outdated can't handle those kinds of revs and knowing all the trouble DC has had in the past with there automatics I doubt you will see any HP increases until they spend some money on a new automatic."


    If Chrysler engines and transmissions are so incompetent and outdated, why did edmunds determine the engine performance of the 01 T&C was better than that of the 01 Ody? In fact, the comparison test also determined that the transmission of the Town & Country also tied the performance of the Odyssey's. I would not surmise from the results of the test that the Odyssey outperforms the Town & Country with its fancy, high reving VTEC engine.


    Not only did the Town & Country either beat or tie the Odyssey in engine and transmission performance but it also beat the Odyssey in the categories of suspension and tire performance, steering, and most importantly...the fun to drive factor. :)


    bdaddy, I'd love to race just for kicks. I know the 3.3 in our van would run out of breathe much sooner than your fancy VTEC engine, but prepair to be beaten off the line and probably all the way to 35mph. The good ol' reliable 158hp Chrysler 3.3 V6 makes alot of its power early in the RPM band.


    In closing, here is a little article for you DC bashers out there on Chrysler reliability. According to this article found at Detroit Auto News the Dodge Caravan is rated as the second best reliable minivan in the category. It looks like its getting harder and harder for DC bashers to play the reliability card when bad mouthing Chrysler...


    Heres the link...

    http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/insiders/0205/14/insider-486681.htm


    -Adam-

  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Then head over to the "Honda Odyssey Problems" message board. There you will find an unusual amount of Honda owners complaining of transmission problems with their relatively new Odyssey vans.

    "Has anyone heard about Differntial Bearings problem in 2001 model. My Odyssey started having transmission problems and started leaking fluid. I took it to a dealer and found the problem in Differential Bearings inside the casing along the axle. The dealer recommended replacing the whole tranny - estimate $5100. I took my odyssey to a local transmission shop and they also said the problem is in Differential Bearings. My mechanic also told me that he just got another Odyssey with the same problem. I wonder if this is a common problem for 2001 odyssey?"
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "but prepair to be beaten off the line and probably all the way to 35mph." snip

    I doubt this would happen, but even if it would, your lead would last all of 2 maybe three seconds.
    I owned an Acura Integra with a 1.8L DOHC. The engine loved to be revved. Mine saw redline hundreds of times. I sold that car with 150,000 miles on it - original clutch, no major problems. The only thing I ever did to it outside of routine maint. was replace a door handle after an ice storm and an air conditioning relay under warranty. I agree with dmathews, the Chrysler powertrain without significant mods. would blow up at higher horsepower/higher revs. Again 4adodge, you really should drive the vehicles you are comparing so you have a basis for comparison and not merely conjecture and hearsay.

    Transmission problems have yet to be seen on 02 models. If you're comparing 01 models I'd suggest you also look at crash test data. Your D.C and T&C didn't fare so well. Safety is an important factor in minivan purchase rationale.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    4aodge-

    The Detroit News article you posted refers to initial quality. It's easy to confuse that with reliability, but they are not the same. Most products have a "bathtub curve" of defects. They start high, drop, level off for some time, then steadily increase again. Ideally, you hope to measure the initial rate for new car buyers concerned with defects from assembly and such. You'd also like to know the failure rate when it increases later in life, for those who keep their vehicles a long time. That's where CR and the JD Power Dependability surveys come in to play. If you want to talk reliability, you can find those results at their websites. If you're really interested in determining how common a particular problem is, I suggest you create a scientifically designed survey, and send it to hundreds of randomly selected owners of each of the vehicles you compare. Anecdotal responses from forums or mechanics have little if any statistical value.

    As for acceleration, the 2002 AAA Auto guide posted these numbers for 0-60 times:

    2002 T&C with 3.8L 215 HP V6: 9.8s
    2002 Odyssey with 240 HP 3.5L V6: 8.5s

    For 2001, from CR for 0-30, 0-60, and 1/4 mile:

    2001 GC with 3.3L V6: 3.8, 11.4, 18.5
    2001 Odyssey with 215HP V6: 3.7, 9.9, 17.6

    Motor Trend had these 0-60 and 1/4 mile times:

    2001 GC ES 3.8L V6: 9.7, 17.2
    2001 Odyssey EX 3.5L V6: 9.6, 17.2
    1996 T&C LXi 3.8L V6 auto: 11.0, 18.1
    1995 Odyssey LX 2.2L I4 Auto: 10.3, 18.3

    This topic came around once before, and I ask the same question again. Do you have any data to support your claims from any print or online source, or are you just guessing? Do you have the HP and Torque curves for both models, or just a static point for the peak numbers which are relatively meaningless?

    Personally, acceleration numbers don't impress me when I'm making a purchase much at all, unless it's really pathetic, which doesn't appear to be the case for either model. My pride won't be injured when you find a source that shows the 2002 T&C besting the Odyssey by 0.3s in 0-30 or 0-60 times....
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Excellent post. But don't expect 4aodge to respond as he has again been showed up. Maybe he can take out the padding in the armrests to save some weight and go faster.
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    You are missing the point. You can throw out all the numbers you can find that give the Odyssey the edge in acceleration. But when you sit behind the wheel of a GC 3.8 and a Ody 3.5, you PROBABLY won't be able to tell much difference between the two. The GC would probably be more torquey at lower speeds but the Ody would have more passing power on the freeway. Anyway, 240 horses sounds really nice, but the 3.5 V6 probably does not blow the Chrysler 3.8 away, just as the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times you posted suggest. And yes, my small 3.3 V6 would probably beat a 240hp Ody off the line. If you don't believe me, I'll see you on the track!

    Many here try to belittle my comments by saying I haven't driven an Odyssey which gives me no credibility. However, I would be willing to bet many of the DC bashers here haven't driven a new DC van with the 3.8 engine either. It goes both ways.

    dmathews3, I'll keep those padded armrest inside the vehicle for now. I know they must seem expendable to an Ody owner like you who is not familiar with the simple luxuries and amenities offered on Chrysler vans.
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    ...like I said, a few tenths of a second faster or slower doesn't make any difference to me.

    As for racing, bdaddy already offered. I'll pass, in the name of safety... You're welcome to have bragging rights as to how the vehicles "feel". Until you accept bdaddy's offer of the race, I prefer to go by the book numbers for sake of any arguement.

    My post was not meant to belittle you at all. I haven't driven any 2002 Chrysler product, and really don't much care one way or the other. But if you're going to debate the point, the published numbers do a lot more than guesswork. In a similar regard, I'll stick with published crashworthiness figures over hearsay, too. Others prefer to justify their choices by claiming their vehicle is better than crash tests indicate because they've seen real-life tested ones in junkyards or whatever. To each their own.

    Cheers!
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "But when you sit behind the wheel of a GC 3.8 and a Ody 3.5, you PROBABLY won't be able to tell much difference between the two. The GC would probably be more torquey at lower speeds but the Ody would have more passing power on the freeway. Anyway, 240 horses sounds really nice, but the 3.5 V6 probably does not blow the Chrysler 3.8 away, just as the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times you posted suggest. And yes, my small 3.3 V6 would probably beat a 240hp Ody off the line. If you don't believe me, I'll see you on the track!"

    You're missing the point 4adodge. 4 "probablys" in one paragraph. Now that's conjecture. That's as bad as a post I saw on the Kia Sedona vs. Odyssey board where the poster said 'the Odyssey might Be faster, but the Kia just FEELS faster.' Wow! I'm not going to get into the merits of a faster vehicle anymore either, unless you show up at my door with pink slip in hand. I didn't buy my van for it's speed or lack there of. I just wish people would post facts and not feelings when making comparisons. Just remember, the best vehicle is not necessarily the one your dad owns. Live with a few vehicles for a while and you'll have a better basis fo comparison. BTW - I did drive an 02 DGC with the 3.8. It was a nice van, but I made my decision based on a lot of factors and in the end, could not rationalize the purchase of the Dodge.
  • jasonrupjasonrup Member Posts: 13
    Uhh, you're completely off the mark there pal, we ONLY build long wheelbase models here in Canada (Chrysler T&C and Grand Caravan as well as rebadged Dodge Grand Caravans called Dodge Voyagers for some foreign markets). The Windsor facility is able to produce short wheelbase models but for the time being ALL short wheelbase vans are built in St. Louis as are all Chrysler Voyagers and any lowline van with the contrasting plastic lower fascias - Windsor only builds models with colour coded fascias. Production consists of Grand Caravan Sport, ES, SE, eL, eX, Chrysler Town&Country Lx, Lxi, Limited. Windsor only builds vans with the 3.3LV6 and 3.8LV6. I may have missed a designation or two but considering the number of models it's expected. Windsor will also be building the new (and gorgeous) Chrysler Pacifica Sport Tourer with the 250HP 3.5LV6 out of the Chrysler 300M alongside the minivans.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    Edmunds shows lwb vans made in MO, too. BTW, saw a GC at dealer recently with "Hecho in Mexico" on 3.3 engine.
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