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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • odd1odd1 Posts: 227
    I knew that was going to be his answer too. Did you notice he didn't try to refute acceleration times?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I think thats because he got raked over the coals last time. Seat of the pants don't get it when you have never set foot in an Odyssey.
  • odd1odd1 Posts: 227
    I sure am glad to know the call on Edmunds' bias came from an expert on T & C bias.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    why should you care about what Edmunds said about the 2002 Ody or DC Vans. None of you own one.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I was hoping to come on this board and get some information regarding the DC vs.Honda minivans and all I've read the past few posts is a lot bickering and name calling. Maybe we should re-name this board the Honda vs. DC bought to you by the WWF.

    It appears that Honda has really stepped up the pressure on the DC minivans by increasing the horsepower to 240 and correcting a few deficiencies form the previous model years. Does anyone know what DC has planned for their minivans in say a year or two from now? If I were buying today it definitely would be either a Honda Odyssey or Mazda MPV.

    4aodge: Relax, man. After reading the past 40 posts, it seems as soon as someone gives you hard facts to demonstrate that Honda is equal to or better in certain category, you resort to subjective, baseless comments. I think it's clear you are a DC man but you also have to see that DC reliability is not up to snuff with Honda. This is why they are losing their market share on minivans each year. Too many people have had trannies fail on previous minivans and are looking for alternate choices. This is also reflected in their car sales as well which have gone down hill in recent years. And all that talk about corporate restructuring to improve quality...this is not something you will see in 1 or 2 model years. This takes time. Ford is doing the exact same thing. Parts have already been ordered from supliers and the assembly lines are set. My point is just because they announce they are doing this great initiative to improve quality and reliability (actually this is an admission that they are having problems) doesn't mean I will run out and buy one of their products. Instead I'll sit back and wait and see if in fact the products do improve. Plus if there is a product that is superior to it, I'll just buy that one instead. Too many choices to sit back and wait for one company.

    Debate is good as long as all parties are open minded and willing to contribute positively to the converstation.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Look who's calling the kettle black. At least I drive a 01 Odyssey. You drive a Ford, fix or repair daily.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    First of all, I never said Chrysler minivans were faster from 0-60 than the Honda Odyssey. I said that Chrysler vans have more low end torque (depending on model year, and engine of course) than the Odyssey, which they do. Even the 2002 Ody doesn't have as much torque as the Chrysler 3.8. Edmund's also stated that they wished Honda had put more low end power into their 1999 Odyssey. The bottom line is, I never said Chrysler was faster from 0-60 than the Odyssey, because they aren't. The 2001 van comparison proved that.


    dtownfb, you need to read my post a little harder. Chrysler reliability has improved significantly over the last few years, which is a fact. You can challenge and even deny it all you'd like, but it's a fact. No, Chrysler reliability is still not what Honda's is, and I doubt it ever will be. But Odyssey reliability is also not characteristic of most Honda cars. Go read about power door failures, rattles, squeaks, transmission failures, leaks, and a few recalls in between here at Edmunds.


    As for Chrysler sales, they are still selling more than anyone else by a huge margin. Chrysler sells about 30k more vans each month than Honda does. Sure, their sales have declined gradually over the last few years because of increased competition, but what would you expect? Seven years ago the only van worth buying was a Chrysler, now you have about five or six worthy alternatives. The fact Chrysler sales have gradually decreased over the last few years says nothing negative about them, especially in a market with such intense competition from Honda, Toyota, and Ford. I think its amazing they sill sell so many vans with that kind of of competition.


    In fact, Chryslers minivan sales are up about 2k units in April 2002 versus April 2001.


    dmathews, I probably hate Ford even more than you do. In my opinion, it is the worst of the Big Three. But I wouldn't be so quick to bash someone driving a Ford if my ride was a 01 Odyssey. I think just about any Ford would be more exciting to drive than a Ody, even my grandma's 1994 Escort wagon...


    If you don't believe Chrysler has improved quality of the last few years, check this link...


    http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0205/31/b01-502833.htm


    To see for yourself how many more vans Chrysler sells than Ford or Honda, check out this site...


    http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolva.asp


    -Adam

  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I do drive own a Ford but it is T-bird and I have no problem with this car after 14 years. I realy careless what the editor wrote about any 2002 models, they are not using my money to buy their cars.
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    Odyssey most power, magic seat, high gas mileage. Chrysler minivan many more nice feature than my Odyssey. Concern after reading many owner problem Odyssey in Town Hall. No problem yet my Odyssey.
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    The newest reliability study done in a scientific way (unlike some "studies" which are really just a survey of what happened to your brother-in-laws van), shows the Dodge vans tied with the Mercury Villager for 2nd place behind the Toyota, all ahead of the Honda.
  • ikendrickikendrick Posts: 2
    If you're after a long warranty you need to go for a Kia--10yrs aren't they? My Ody, which arrives this month, will be my 3rd Honda. They've always had short warranties but maybe I've been lucky and he kept bragging about the 7yr warranty as opposed to the 3 year one on my '84 Accord. During the 1st year of ownership his mechanic drove the Omni as much as he did. Whereas during the life of the Accord (13 years, 189,000 miles--totaled in an accident) there were 3 REPAIR visits--only one of which occurred before the 100,000 mile mark. Click and Clack (Car Talk) are correct, buying a Honda or a Toyota is like buying an appliance--boring but lasts forever. I know many people swear by (as opposed to at) Chrysler products and they have improved markedly. Sorry, I'll continue to buy imports--besides look at the blue book values.
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    Well my 98 Neon I had 3 years and 37,000 miles before trading it in on our current minivan. Had no repairs, was better at avoiding accidents with its superior handling, and depreciated only $3000 in those 3 years. That end value was based on a low dealer trade in, had I sold it myself you could have knocked another $1000 off that depreciation. Not bad for a car that also got over 40 MPG on the highway (personal experience as well as EPA ratings).
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "The newest reliability study done in a scientific way (unlike some "studies" which are really just a survey of what happened to your brother-in-laws van), shows the Dodge vans tied with the Mercury Villager for 2nd place behind the Toyota, all ahead of the Honda. "

    Which study is that?

    We will assume you don't mean the new JD Power Initial Quality survey, which is a study of initial defects on brand new, MY 2002 cars. If you are actually interested in long-term reliability, then you might look at Consumer Reports or the JD Power Vehicle Dependability survey instead. Incidentally, both JD Power and CR use surveys of actual vehicle owners, though CR polls only its readers and JD Power is presumably a random sampling from all registered owners.
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    10 year/100,000 mile LIMITED POWERTRAIN warranty.
    BUT...5 year/60,000 mile limited basic warranty.
    Toyota reliability now in toilet. Read sludge problem many 3.0L V6 engines Sienna, Carmy, Avalon
    Honda best reliability but read Chrysler great improvement.
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    The vehicle dependability study covers vans only after 4 or 5 years of ownership so the Honda doesn't apply (the most recent study was done on 1997 model years). The design is completely new, more powerful, bigger, heavier, (basically a cloan of the Chrysler), and now has the problems to match. The old Honda design with its light weight, and weak motor, and gadget free design was much more reliable. So the only study to go buy would be initial quality (which covers the first two years of ownership), where the Chrysler vans are superior to the Honda.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Here is an example of Odyssey owners logic.
    "The thing I like about the spare in the inside center well is have you ever tried to take out the spare from under a vehicle in a snow storm. The ice and snow are awful. Even in the rain with your good clothes on, the mud and dirt caked on it from traveling under the van. The Honda spare is nice and clean and DRY. I believe the DC vans can be had with a full size spare but not sure. At least one of the minis do."
    Well, I have to admit it's been a while since I last changed a flat, but when I did it was one of those thin temporary things that had a very limited range, 150 to 200 miles and a 50 MPH limit. The ride was terrible and then I got the priviledge of putting the fixed one back on again. (OK I'm cheap). The full sized spare allows highway speeds and a smooth ride. I have had the optional full sized spare under the rear of my DC minivan thru 6 winters in the Chicago area and only lower it to check the tire pressure before taking a trip. It is not dirty and mud covered. The Odyssey mini spare may be clean but the dirty muddy Oddy flat gets to ride inside your clean van because it won't fit in the well the mini spare came from.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    The Odyssey mini spare may be clean but the dirty muddy Oddy flat gets to ride inside your clean van
    True but they give you a special bag to put it in and besides having been through a flat it fits inside the huge well behind the 3rd seat with room for a couple more.
  • odd1odd1 Posts: 227
    Sorry, that our barbs aren't quality exchanges of info. But since there are less than six regulars over the past year on this board, I think that leads to barbs that are more good natured ribbing of each other then truly attacking one another. Without knowing the history of this board it is hard to recognize these barbs. We know what gets each other and what each others' arguments are going to be. I think the host is aware of this and gives us a tad more leeway before flaming us.

    Dmatt and I were just giving Adam a hard time and he'll do the same to us first chance he gets.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "The vehicle dependability study covers vans only after 4 or 5 years of ownership so the Honda doesn't apply (the most recent study was done on 1997 model years). The design is completely new, more powerful, bigger, heavier, (basically a cloan of the Chrysler), and now has the problems to match. The old Honda design with its light weight, and weak motor, and gadget free design was much more reliable. So the only study to go buy would be initial quality (which covers the first two years of ownership), where the Chrysler vans are superior to the Honda."

    Incidentally, I never stated the JDP Dependability survey was valid for the current model Odyssey; it is indeed for 5-year old vehicles. Similarly, the IQ survey has about the same validity for measuring long term reliability. It is for the most recent model year only.The newly released survey is for owners of MY2002 vehicles after only 90 days of ownership. As such, it reports mostly manufacturing defects; problems with assembly and early-life failures. Like most products, vehicles have a higher incidence of problems when they are brand new, and then it again increases later in life. The idea is to get a measurement of the initial failures early in life, and then also measure the long-term failures later in life. The two types of failures are not necessarily dependent on each other.

    Personally, if I was going to buy any survey to get a predictor of long-term reliability, I'd go with Consumer Reports. Despite their flaws, at least their reliability projections are based on the most recent years of the current generation of vehicle, and not just the first 90 days of the current model year. Your mileage may vary.
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    "I think just about any Ford would be more exciting to drive than a Ody, even my grandma's 1994 Escort wagon..."
    Once again 4adodge, speculation on your part. You've never driven an Odyssey so how can you describe the driving experience? As I recall, your list of vehicles that you have driven consists of: your folks DC minivan, their Neon - I mean PT Cruiser, and your Gmas' Escort Wagon. Do test results mean nothing to you when reviewers describe the Odyssey's ride and handeling as "sporty" and "spirited"? I suggest you drive one before you make comments based on what you think the van drives like. Unless of course, you're afraid you might actually like the van more than your DC:-)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,938
    Actually it does get old when people are critized instead of ideas. I know you guys can defend yourselves quite well, but the drivability insights and other helpful tidbits that get posted are nicer to see.

    /grumble/

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    With a group like Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans I doubt you will ever get a rational discussion.
    bdaddy "I think just about any Ford would be more exciting to drive than a Ody, even my grandma's 1994 Escort wagon..." Come on now, speaking of being rational. An Escort Wagon A Huffy bike would be better than any Escort. As far as any Ford better than an Odyssey you could include any van in that statement. They aren't no Corvette, but than again they don't cost like a Corvette.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    "Do test results mean nothing to you when reviewers describe the Odyssey's ride and handling as "sporty" and "spirited"?"

    Reviews say that about the boxy, boring, bland Honda Odyssey? That's funny. I could have sworn they said that about the Grand Caravan ES w/ torquey 3.8 V6 and 17 inch wheels. And If im correct the Town & Country beat the Odyssey is just about every drive category there was and the editors said if they were to take a road trip, they'd take the Town & Country hands down over the competition. I've never driven an Odyssey but just based on what I've read and how it looks, it's hardly a "sporty" or "spirited" car.

    Yes, looks can be deceiving, but...
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    Well according to JD Power's director of product research Brian Walters, "While many manufacturers focus on initial quality—or quality in the first one to two years of ownership—a real economic impact is felt by both owners and manufacturers in long-term durability, which is after four to five years of ownership,"
    So he says they initial quality study reflects the first 1 or 2 years of ownership, while the durability study is for 4 or 5 years.
    I know that they only survey for the first 3 months of ownership on the initial quality study, but according to the studies designers this reflects the first 1-2 years of ownership.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    And the plastic bag makes up for the hard ride 50 MPH speed limit and limited range. Where do you put the flat tire when you are loaded with passengers and luggage?Is taking all the luggage out to access the rear storage compartment (if it's not full) in the rain or snow is another exciting benefit?
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    You and your torque. Every time you're hit with facts and real driving impressions, you go off about the torque of the DC 3.8 liter engine. Ody torque is 242 ft lbs, @ 4,500 rpm. Towing cpacity of 3,500 lbs. DC makes 245 ft lbs @ 4,000 rpm with a towing capacity of 3,800 lbs. Hardly what I'd call a huge difference in torque between the vehicles. Besides, you could compare vehicles that have vast differences in torque and it wouldn't necessarily equate to anything other than in what the vehicles are capable of towing (notice I said "wouldn't necessarily" because there are many variables that affect performance, ride comfort, etc. Torque is certainly a variable but I'm not sure what point you keep trying to ake with it.)

    As for one vehicle being boring, boxey, bland etc., beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've driven every 2002 minivan out there, (yes, even the Caravan EX with the mighty 3.8L stump pulling torquey shmorkey engine). Honda beat everybody hands down with the 240 HP V-Tec, the four wheel indepedent suspension, 4 wheel ABS disk brakes and firm, responsive steering. For me it came down to size, safety, ride, handeling and the three R's - resale, resale, resale. till you drive 'em, you're just speculating and wearing your loyalty on your sleeve.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,938
    I've had 4 flats on my '99 van that has the spare underneath. The worse was on the TransLabrador highway - muddy gravel road in the middle of nowhere. We were living out of the van so it was pretty full of camping gear and stuff. The cable device is close enough to the rear hatch that too much stuff didn't have to get rearranged to lower the spare (getting to my tools was harder). The spare was filthy. The cable is long enough so at least I didn't have to crawl under the van to put the flat tire back underneath. I got muddy anyway changing the tires.

    We knew we'd be on roads like this a lot on our roadtrip, so we had tossed the spacesaver spare for a full-sized one. That was a bigger concern to me when I was pricing the Odyssey. I can tolerate some dirt, but I like having a "real" spare, since we still like to tool around on the forest service roads around here, and I seem to have a knack for ruining tires.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Sounds like before you start making all these comments you would find out where Odyssey puts it spare. Also when you put all that gear and passengers in the DC van I'm sure its full but in the Odyssey there is still plenty of room.
  • crkeehncrkeehn Posts: 513
    Perhaps you should research your comment before making it. The PT Cruiser and the Neon are not related. The Pronto was based on the Neon Chassis, however the trip from concept to production model required such extensive redesigns that the relationship was lost.
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    A agree if I had a Honda resale would be of upmost importance, I'd be looking at selling all the time. My reliable, comfortable, sporty, AWD Dodge on the other hand will given us such great service, for so long, it will have proven more valuable, even if it's worth a couple thousand less then the Honda.
This discussion has been closed.