Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

1…3132343637…134

Comments

  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Load leveling suspension comes in very handy sometimes, especially on long road trips with 6 or more people in the car. I wish our Town & Country had come with this option. While driving down the freeway I often see Odysseys with their butts sagging low to the ground and it doesn't even look like there are more than 5 or 6 passengers in the car. On the other hand, most Town & Countrys and Grand Caravan Sport/ES models with the load leveling suspension maintain their aggressive stance even when packed with people. While I can't say that about our van with normal suspension, I wish I could!
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    ...most Town & Countrys and Grand Caravan Sport/ES models with the load leveling suspension maintain their aggressive stance...

    Yeah, that's the first thing I think when looking at a minivan: aggressive.
  • c1rybickc1rybick Member Posts: 35
    I'm 18 years old and I don't mind being seen in our van. It's almost "arrest me red" in color, and yeah it does look almost aggressive (more so than our station wagon, Civic, Camry, or older F-150, lol)

    OMG never mind, mom actually just sold the Cressida (1985, 209,000 miles on it) for $950....my baby is GONE!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    4aodge, I'd like you to meet C1rybick; C1rybick, shake with 4aodge. I think you two have a lot in common!

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    I didn't say minivans had to be aggressive but I would much rather have a van with a nice flat level ride than one, like most packed Honda Odysseys, that have their nose pointed to the into the air and their tail almost touching the ground. Not only does a level ride improve the driver's view of the road but it also ensures that your lights will be directed onto the road where they should be instead of the sky.

    C1rybick, nice to meet you. If I really wanted or needed a van I too would choose an Inferno Red Grand Caravan ES. Candy Apple Red was a beautiful color but now Inferno Red is even brighter and stands out more. It truly is an "arrest me" red. As for aggressive, the 2001-2003 Grand Caravan ES models with the chrome wheels truly does have an "athletic" stance, to quote Edmunds. I hope you and your mom continue to enjoy your van!
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Member Posts: 279
    I find this facinating. The Odyssey is clearly the quality machine, and if dependability is all you want, that's the van for you. But it's ugly. The Windstar and D/C vans are far better looking. That matters to some. I like the Mazda and Toyota vans both much better than the Odyssey. In fact, I like a bedpan with a maytag motor better from an asthetics perspective than the Odyssey. But, hands down, it's the best built, I'm sure.
  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    It has been deleted off of the 2003 models, as has the windshield wiper deicer, and covered cd storage bin.
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Member Posts: 279
    I wish all manufacturers would understand how discouraging it is to the consumer when they "thrift" or "de-content" their models. Ford Taurus is a great example. I had an 86 Taurus LX, that was loaded, and a real people pleaser. It felt strong, solid, and had all the conveniences. You drive a Taurus now, there's no electronic dash, drum brakes on the rear, the interior looks cheap, seats have no support, let alone power lumbar options, etc. Where the Taurus started out great, it has now become "just another rental car". Can't tell it from an Impala anymore, inside. Taking the Load suspension off the vans is another example.
  • c1rybickc1rybick Member Posts: 35
    I'd say getting rid of the load level suspension would be a mistake. The trailer towing package was what Mom wanted the most (included the stiffer suspension). It tows a simple 3-seat Sea-Doo just fine, and while you definately feel it, it'll pull my cousin's 18 ft Bayliner boat decently. Of course, we live in Alabama and it's fairly flat and low altitude here...wouldn't want to try towing that boat out West.
  • jackate123jackate123 Member Posts: 2
    we are buying our first minivan soon.what a great time to be buying.but heres my question-a 2002 dodge grand se with all the incentives comes out at about 16700-the honda lx is about 25700.now i prefer the honda but i cant really justify the extra 9000.honda dealers wont budge off their msrp so i will be driving a dodge.
    the 70000 mile warranty is also a big plus.i guess they have a reputation of bad trannies but at least now they are willing to stand by their product.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    does the $16.7k price include the tires or are those optional?
  • jackate123jackate123 Member Posts: 2
    we are educated buyers in ny unlike california where you take a serious bath walking into a dealership.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    So are you saying you can get a $16.7k GC that is equivalent to $25.7k Ody? Lets see it John.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    for Ford, GM and Daimler-Chrysler.

    Where other autmakers are making side-airbags, ABS and such standard features, the American automakers (and Chrysler) are taking them out and putting them in the "options" bin.

    They cut out a lot of cost to themselve, and turn it into profit when it's sold as a package to the consumer.

    So, no - I'm not surprised when I hear that Ford/GM/DaimlerChrysler have cut some feature off of their newer models. It appears that they are more bent on competing on price, vs. price AND quality.
  • xafxaf Member Posts: 37
    I have rolled cars, been t-boned in intersections, rear ended, and various other accidents. Courtesy of some great winter weather.

    ABS does not make a driver better, It just lets the driver have more control while braking. I would prefer to have it as an option.

    In every accident, myself and all of my passengers that were wearing their seatbelts properly came away virtually injury free. The people in my vehicle that insist that they don't need seatbelts have always been injured (nothing too serious though). Side air bags are an option, why waste money on a questionable option. Just wear your seat belt properly.

    The Nascar drivers don't have airbags in their cars. Just good crumble zones and seat belts. And they know more about accidents than any of us.

    Why pay for what you don't want or possibly need?
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "The Nascar drivers don't have air bags in their cars. Just good crumble zones and seat belts. And they know more about accidents than any of us."

    Try tubular steel driver containment cages, helmets and 5 point safety harness. I wouldn't need side air bags, or any air bags for that matter, if I had that kind of structural integrity and restraint system. Side curtain air bags are meant to cushion the driver/passengers head from getting whacked on the A-pillar or door column. My friend's brother died in a roll over from exactly that. It was hard to believe because there was no apparent sign of injury to him.

    Cold climate driving conditions do not necessarily equate to a higher accident rates. I live in the upper Midwest and have not experienced a fraction of the accidents you claim to have been in. At some point you might consider examining your driving skills/techniques. It never hurts to take some brush-up courses to avoid another accident.
  • xafxaf Member Posts: 37
    I was not the driver in all of the accidents I have been in. And I have been driving for almost 25 years, from Alberta, Florida, Nevada, Ontario,... I drove for a living - the travelling sales man kinda thing. Some years I have put on 50,000 miles. I'm glad those days are behind me.

    PS

    I have never been charged with any driving offenses in all of the accidents that I have been in. In every case I was not the driver at fault. (I am surprised because I am very clumsy when I do the dishes at home.) So my ability to drive is AOK. As for driving courses, been there, taught that, got the T-shirt.
  • steelengsteeleng Member Posts: 71
    I don't believe jackate123 intended to say that the Grand Caravan SE (the base model GC) compared directly to the Odyssey LX. What he seems to be saying is that Honda does not have a van that can be purchased for under $20K for those that need the space, want a new vehicle, and cannot afford $25K for the base model Odyssey. Sometimes one needs options.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A little less bickering please - if you need a copy of your now missing post, zap me an email and I'll send you a copy ;-)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Actually, I am a proponent for side airbags for one reason - seatbelts don't do too well in lateral crashes.

    A cousin of mine got into a car accident a few years back. The regular three point seatbelts were used, but since the accident was lateral in nature, she banged her head really hard against the window.

    Needless to say, the monthlong coma wasn't a good thing to go through. Three years to this day, she is still in rehab trying to get her basic short-term memory and motor skills back to a useable state.

    I completely agree that everyone should wear seat belts, but that side airbag does protect a part of your body that is easily damaged and hard to repair - the brain...
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    I generally agree with your rationale for side airbags. However, some people (your cousin excluded) don't use their brains much and so maybe they should remain optional for those folks.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
  • farfegnugenfarfegnugen Member Posts: 25
    Perhaps that should be clarified....side impact head protection airbags/curtains will help in those situations, however, regular side impact thorax airbags will not.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    More interesting information on Honda transmissions. hmmmmmmmm!

    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020914/1036070.asp
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Sounds like Honda has it under control. Unlike DC who took what about 10 years or longer before their transmission got fixed right, and if it is fixed.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    It doesn't address the huge number of Odysseys out there with this potential timebomb...

    Still, you are right, at least it was identified quickly, and an engineering fix is underway. Let's hope it's the right fix.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    What should they do? They aren't going to replace every transmission until something happens. They most likely will extend the warranty on the trans just like EVERY other manufacturer does. About the only time something gets fixed is if it is a dangerous safety issue.
  • sutton4sutton4 Member Posts: 34
    If there is an actual defect in the transmission, which apparently there is, then Honda should replace the defective parts.

    Why should Honda owners have to drive a car with a known problem in it, and just wait for it to fail?

    It all boils down to how Honda wants to treat their cutomers. So far, they aren't looking to customer friendly.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    While I agree I wouldn't want my tranny to downshift into second gear at high speeds, I think a 1.6% defect rate is a little low to expect a manufacturer (any manufacturer) to issue a recall. I think that for now, what Honda is doing is the appropriate response. dmathews is right, Honda is way ahead of DC in the tranny fix department. I'm glad you own a van that has never had a single problem in it's lineage. Stuff happens as they say.
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    That's true, 1.6% is really low for a manufacturer, but I think the concern isn't so much as the defect (which take a while to wait for), but the manner in which it fails.

    Losing control of a vehicle is not acceptable under any circumstances - especially at freeway speeds.

    Imagine a family with kids getting wiped out because of a sudden downshift. The uproar will be as bad, if not worse than the Firestone fiasco.

    Knowing how rare this problem can be, but how severe the failure can be - is it possible to flush the tranny line of any debris to prevent this from hapenning?

    Additionally, which cars now have the modified transmissions? Honda hasn't made that very clear.
  • ed12ed12 Member Posts: 100
    DAve12

    How do you know load leveling suspension and the deicer will not be avialable? Chrysler's website does not yet list the 2003 models.
  • dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    I know this because I've gone to the Chrysler dealer and compared the sticker of a 2002 T&C Limited and the sticker of a 2003 T&C Limited. I've also sat inside a 2003 to compare.

    No mention of load leveling suspension

    No mention of windshield wiper deicer (apparent since it's no longer on the windshield)

    Deletion of 8-way power driver's seat (tested out a 2003 4-way power seat, and all it does is recline and go forwards and backwards...no more tilt, up, down, etc.)

    Full size spare now an option

    CD player now an option

    And no more CD compartment storage...now it's just an open space like in a Caravan Sport.
  • wardmwardm Member Posts: 23
    I too have looked at the 2003 T&C. Only the AWD comes standard with the load leveler. All other models of the T&C have it as part of the tow package. Didn't play with the power seats, however, the window stickers on the limited say 8 way power. Also, the 2003 AWD version I saw did have the defroster lines on the windshield at the resting place for the wipers. Do an inventory search on a dealership called "Koons" in Vienna, VA and look at the window stickers on the AWD's. If you find one with the tow package you'll notice that the towing packages do not have the load leveling in the package as it is standard. Now look at the non AWD's that have the towing package and you'll find it costs more and lists the load leveling. Hope this helps.
  • wardmwardm Member Posts: 23
    I'm not sure why chryslers site does not show the 2003. Doesn't make sense since they are plentiful at local dealers. FYI:The full size spare is also part of the tow package in all models. Take a look at www.kbb.com and look at the standard equipment tab and price the options as well.
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    Yet another story that makes it harder for Ody owners to bash past DC quality. There is no doubt in my mind the Odyssey is not up to par with typical Honda quality. Even the 2002 Honda Odyssey with the 5 speed auto is not what it should be in the quality department.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    Oh, it doesn't make it harder for me Adam, trust me. Remember, this minivan design is 4 years old (five if you count 2003, but the tranny problem was to have been fixed months ago). How long did it take DC to remedy it's transmission problems? I think every owner of a DC, Ford, or GM product should from time to time thank auto makers like Honda and Toyota, or the American public would still be driving cars and vans with quality reminiscent of the late 70s, early 80s. I wouldn't be so quick to gloat Adam. DC will have it's day again - history has shown us that.
  • steelengsteeleng Member Posts: 71
    I find it interesting that the Odyssey supporters find the 1.6% failure rate of the transmissions to be "no big deal." I mean, if your transmission suddenly shifts from 5th to 2nd at 70mph while rounding a turn you can pretty much say goodbye tarmac and hello off-road (without AWD).

    It seems that some of these same people made a rather big deal about a certain gas tank problem on DC vans. I'm sure that the odds of getting into a severe head-on collision followed by rollover (the basic scenario that discovered the problem in testing) is much less than 1.6% yet DC owners were mocked quite heavily about their exploding fire traps.

    The transmission issue is a safety issue not a reliability issue. It would be as much of a concern to me as the gas tank issue. Since I own a 2001 DGC you can see that it was not much of a concern to me. It is just interesting to me that some on this board can quickly dismiss small percentage problems with their own vehicle while mocking others for their smaller percentage problems
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Although I love my Odyssey, I agree with steel's assesment - the failure rate isn't quite the issue, but it the manner in which it fails is a significant problem.

    If I had to choose between a fireballing minivan, or one that likes to go out of control on a tranny failure, I'd choose NONE of them.

    However, bdady is also correct on one point. It took Chrysler OVER 10 years to resolve their tranny problems - I know for a fact that it stems way back to the early models too. Honda took five. Taking over ten years to admit, isolate and fix a well-known problem is just unacceptable.

    Either way - anyone trying to fix their dead tranny (Ody or DC) due to bad design flaws will meet the same stiff resistance from both automakers when it comes to paying the bill.
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "If I had to choose between a fireballing minivan, or one that likes to go out of control on a tranny failure, I'd choose NONE of them."

    I never said I liked the defect. The gas tank issue is kind of ironic since the accident that brought it to prominence (the one in which the parents survived, but all 5 children perished) happened about 10 miles from my home.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    mliong said: However, bdady is also correct on one point. It took Chrysler OVER 10 years to resolve their tranny problems - I know for a fact that it stems way back to the early models too. Honda took five.
    Not really 5. Got to remember the earlier trans problems on the Odyssey were with the 4 speed and they weren't even 1% of the build and were NOT a safety issue. They fixed them right away and tried to make the Odyssey even better with the new 5 speed which is a completely different trans and I agree very unacceptable problem, but at least Honda wasn't sitting on their hands saying duh, what problem, there isn't a problem, duh!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Still amazed that some Odyssey owners did not even read the LA times article. Quote from LA Times "Spencer said Honda engineers identified the root of the problems A FEW MONTHS AGO and have redesigned the transmissions.

    The FOUR-speed models were afflicted with a bad bearing that could break apart, scattering fragments of metal that clogged fluid passageways in the transmission, causing it to shift erratically, he said.

    The FIVE-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting.

    Honda and Acura dealers are replacing affected transmissions under warranty - typically with factory rebuilt transmissions, a standard industry practice, Spencer said. He said customers such as Lammens have been caught in an unusual situation because Honda has never had a run of bad transmissions and thus has never had to stockpile replacement parts. When the FOUR- and FIVE-speed automatics started breaking, he said, a backlog quickly developed." So it sure looks like there is also a problem with the "new and Improved" FIVE speed.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    The accident refered to in Bdaddy's post was well documented here in the midwest. It appears that he never read any of the reports in the newspapers or magazines on this accident, for if he had he would have known that it was caused by a large piece of metal that fell off of a truck, was run over by the minivan, and pierced the tank.The truck was driven by a man who had obtained his license by bribery in Illinois. NO vehicle less than an armored tank or off road SUV with a reinforced sheilded gas tank could have avoided that terrible accident, including any Honda built!
  • 4aodge4aodge Member Posts: 288
    How much does a new Honda 5 speed automatic transmission cost? Add that to the already inflated sticker price!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Wonder what effect the transmission issue will have on Odyssey resale values? Maybe if the owner certified it was a rebuilt with either the new bearing design (4-speed), or new clutch plate pack (5-speed), they could hope to get that high resale value we have been hearing about? Tic, Tic, Tic,
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    You are correct in noting that it does affect the redesigned 5 speed, but with the fix already implemented, this would quickly become a none-issue, until an accident happens.

    As for the resale value, I think the 1999 and 2000 Odyssey owners might get the raw end of the deal on the resale value - because of the scarcity of the replacement tranny.

    However, the 5 speed owners have little to worry about because it will be in production for a long time, and the new design fixes have already made it into the newer models.

    If history serves as a good reference point, the tranny fiasco might not ding the Odyssey resale value as much as a DC van because of two variables:
    1) Ody's are still in high demand, and they numbers are still relatively few compared to DC. Supply and Demand.
    2) Unlike DC, the Ody had a fix in less than three years for the new 5 speeds - whereas the DCs only recently had the problem resolved.

    I'm not sure if people are concerned with resale value as much as you think they are. The typical minivan owners tend to run these cars until it is time to replace them - which means that most of the value would have already been depreciated by the time they trade it in - an old beater is still an old beater, DC or HO, no difference IMHO.

    If I had to buy a minivan again today, I would still have narrowed my search down to the Caravan, Odyssey and Sienna.

    The Sienna would have been eliminated due to the size, and the caravan because of the interior style and functionality (no folding seat).

    By admitting about the tranny flaws, and moving quickly to identify and fix these problems, Honda has not only done the right thing, but they have also assured themselves of a repeat buyer. This is something Daimler Chrysler does not do very well.

    As for tranny failures, I have a 98% chance of having the whole car last me the intended 10 year lifecycle I have budgeted for it without a major drivetrain failure. That's pretty good in my book.

    There's a reason why Chrysler bumped up their powertrain warranty to 7 years folks, and it's the same reason Hyundai\Kia have a 10 year drivetrain warranty....
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    I didn't have the time to write a shorter one! :)
  • bdaddybdaddy Member Posts: 171
    "How much does a new Honda 5 speed automatic transmission cost?"

    Why, do you want to buy one for your Dad's DC? I warned you not to gloat - DC will have it's day you can be sure.

    Hayneldan - I'm well aware of what caused the accident. I am suggesting that this accident, while not directly related to design of the DC gas tank, did serve to bring it to prominence, that's all. Like I said, glad you own a vehkicle with a perfect pedegrie.
  • steelengsteeleng Member Posts: 71
    I was not aware of the incident that bdaddy mentioned. It is good to know what the cause was. The only time I have heard of the DGC gas tank problem showing up was in the IIHS crash tests. After they did their simulated offset crash they turned the van over and noticed a small leak at the filler neck. That is a very severe and rare crash combination.
  • steelengsteeleng Member Posts: 71
    After hearing about the problem with the sloshing noise in the Ody I looked under my DGC and noticed that it has a relatively long flat tank. I have never looked at the tank under an Ody but if it is flatter than the one under my van it would have to be a real pancake. Has anybody here compared the two?
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    Keep in mind that 1.6% of all Odysseys on the road are not dropping transmissions and sending the vans out of control. Though any crash is unfortunate, I have not yet seen one published report of an injury or fatality from this mode of failure.

    Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. In that regard, anyone can somehow extrapolate a great number of mechanical problems into a huge safety panic. Do they recall every vehicle with any known drivetrain, braking or suspension problem?

    So are loss-of-control transmission failures likely with the Odyssey (or any vehicle with know transmission issues)? I doubt it. Even taking the 1.6% replacement rate at face value, the odds of the failure happening while driving are not 100%. The odds of them happening in a dangerous situation are even less. Keep in mind that many major mechanical problems do manifest themselves with noises or other indicators and give some warning of impending failure. Plus, a sudden downshift does NOT necessarily mean loss of control. Your brakes and steering still work. It's not like the throttle or accelerator being stuck. If you don't panic, you probably won't lose control, and you can even turn off the engine if you can't change gears to neutral.

    Even the notorious Chrysler transmissions of the late 90s never aroused panic in me for safety reasons. I heard numbers upwards of 50% failure rates for some series of these automatics. Thankfully, the one in our '95 Cirrus never had a problem. I was never panicked about it being a safety issue, though relatives and friends can attest that it was a severe annoyance issue. The dismal crash tests and blind spots were a far greater concern to me, especially once we had children...

    I do not think this is a safety issue, and not (yet) much of a reliability issue. Time, as always, will tell.

    Just my $0.02...
This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles