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Mazda MX-5 Miata (2005 and earlier)

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't agree if you mean lots more HP...I think substantially more HP would ruin the car's balance...it has this perfect niche that no one else quite has....oh, sure, a few more HP wouldn't hurt, but really I would like to see the car stay below 185 HP for eternity. I'd rather see them chop more weight off.
  • danandradanandra Member Posts: 1
    I'm wanting to buy a '99 Miata, anyone in the Dallas-Ft.Worth area selling one, please let me know. Thanks!
  • sisko99sisko99 Member Posts: 6
    The more I read this forum, the more I want one of these cars. Ah.....someday.....

    I'll just have to live vicariously through you guys.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    The only that sort of difference it will make is for those who bring it onto the track, and then, skill will still make the difference. Anyone who would try to make a 'case' about such a small thing would have to be unhappy with the car overall and use it as an excuse.
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    Remember, these are peak HP numbers. They occur at at what 5500-6000 rpms. What really matters (to me) is normal everyday torque 2000-4500 range. This often don't change much when they tweak for top end HP.
  • eddiesvr4eddiesvr4 Member Posts: 41
    Ok guys ... like a moron, I tore the rear window. It looks great now all taped up with masking tape. I'm sure the Police are gonna love this one.

    Has anyone replaced their rear window yet? Any thoughts? I called around to a few upholstery places, and they're talking about $480 to fully replace the window with rain guard, zipper, and liner, or $380 to cut out the window and saw another one back in.

    Damn, that's alot of loot. I'm broke. I'm thinking of cutting the window out and doing a "home" job ... ie: cut out my own plastic and glue it on with rubber or fabric glue.

    Can this be done? Does anyone have any cost effective ideas???

    Thanx...

    Eddie
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    agreed -- that's another reason the MR2 is both more responsive and quicker than the Miata (the VVTi helps with mid-range torque).

    Interestingly, shifty's point about too much power upsetting the balance of the car is exactly what the development engineer for the MR2 said, when asked why they didn't offer the 180-hp 2ZZ engine from the GT-S right out of the box. People laughed -- who knew?!! =O)
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    I read on Miata.net last night, according to Autocar Mag a possible RX-5 is in the works for 2003. The Miata body and with the rotary engine...oooohhh
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    freddy - Don't misunderstand, I love Miatas whether they have 155 hp, 142 hp or 118 hp. I would be driving one (118 hp version) right now if I could have found a decent one last year when I was looking. I have said in one of the other topics where this is being discussed that the advertised peak hp means little to me, it is how the car feels. BUT, logic aside, people don't like being lied to and feel cheated when they are. It's kind of like coming home with a new, expensive, 1000 watt stereo system for your home. After enjoying it for several months, loving the sound and never turning the volume up past 25 %, you read that your stereo was tested and really only puts out 750 watts. You would probably feel cheated. You still love the sound of the system but somehow you get a little twinge everytime you push the power button because you feel like you paid for a 1000 watt stereo but only got a 750 watt one.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, Eddie...now why did you go and do that?

    Well, I've cracked a few in my day.....I think the price you were quoted is kinda high...I shopped around and got a very decent replacement job on my Alfa for $250...I think this is about the bottom line price....and I'm SURE the Alfa top is no easier to remove than the Miata.

    think of it as a good safety investment....a new back window is great...I'm really enjoying it.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    eddie - have you been to Miata.net? It seems to me you could get a whole new top for less than $500. I think you can also get a rear glass window for the older Miatas. I don't remember whether that was a whole new top or something you could instal in an old top.
  • eddiesvr4eddiesvr4 Member Posts: 41
    I'm a dummy. I was just too lazy to unzip the rear window when opening the top, and the window didn't bend properly ... crack. There it went.

    The price of $480 to replace the window was quoted to me by an auto upholerster. He said it included the plastic window ($150), zipper and rain rail ($???), and 4-5 hours labor. This is nuts.

    He said that if I wanted a glass window, the entire top would need to be changed. Is this true???

    I'm afraid to take it to a Mazda dealer. I can just imagine how much they're gonna charge me.

    Are there any do-it-yourselfers out there that have any ideas?

    Thanx...

    Eddie
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    eddie - check out this site:

    http://www.autotops.com/miata.html

    Seems like they have all the options. Of course those prices do not include installation. I have no idea how hard it is to install a new top.
  • ace10ace10 Member Posts: 137
    and check out the marketplace section. there are at least three manufacturers, sold through countless vendors who make replacement rear windows, both plastic and glass. the upholster is probably going to reimvent the wheel in your case, by fashioning one from scratch. that just isn't necessary.

    ace
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Exactly right. Mazda itself is making a "big deal" out of their embarassing quoted hp. aren't they offering $500 off, or free maintenace during the warranty? As mentioned Ford had this problem with their '99 Mustang Cobras. Because they were short 15 hp it became a big enough issue to pull the car from the market. No 2000 Cobra. Now I don't think it really is that serious to do that, especially for Mazda.
    I think many people do like more power, and may have held off on an '00 model to get an '01, because of that.
    I also think that you're not going to ruin a Miata by adding some additional power. Although I've never driven one, I'd think the AC Cobra 429, was a bit too much power for a little sports car - but Triumphs have had 6 and even 8 cylinder power. I say Mazda should let the market decide.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    Many of us would rather see the hp - and the price of the car stay where it is. If the miata could compete with an S2000, it would also cost as much. Sacrifices in this price range need to be made.

    All though an optional turbo for those who want to spend the extra cash on hp may not be a bad idea...
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    Yowza, 2 months of research, 3 weeks of calling private owners and (yuck) dealers and approximately 20 test drives, found our car...didn't want to take credit until it checked out and we got it home.


    1992, Limited Edition, black, tan leather, power everything, ABS, BBS wheels, new Dunlops, all records, and babied, people often claim their car is in outstanding condition, this one truly is, absolutely flawless in and out. 44k miles, $8000. Sad thing is, it is my wifes car...thanks everybody for the info wouldn't have been possible without help from Edmunds townhall.


    image

  • scott155scott155 Member Posts: 10
    I am the owner of a 2001 Miata LS and I just got my letter in the mail from Mazda about their "mistake" on the horsepower and their two remedies:
    I can let them buy the car back or
    they will give me free scheduled maintenance for 3 years and $500.

    My problem is that I think this whole issue will cause a drop in the resale value of the 2001 Miata cars and that the maintenance and $500 is not nearly enough to compensate for that.

    I feel that after they sort this out in about 6 weeks, they will either offer rebates or finance incentives to attract buyers and/or in 2002 will redesign the engine so that it makes the 155hp promised or possibly more. Either way I think the resale value is going to suffer and their offer is not enough to compensate for that.

    If there are 2001 owners out there, let me know what you think. If we all E-mail or write Mazda with our concerns they might rethink the terms. I think they are about $1,000 short of proper compensation.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    ...I'd take the repurchase option. It is there exactly for the reason you stated: if you are unhappy that you are stuck with a 142HP version. Poor resale value is a perfectly valid reason. I would return it, wait out the incentives or until next year to see if they can recover the missing power. So far I think what Mazda is offering is fair.
  • eddiesvr4eddiesvr4 Member Posts: 41
    Wow ... the car's HOT!!! How did you insert the photo into the post? I'm not HTML literate. I'd love to see other Miata owners post their cars too.

    44K for a 92 Limited Edition is outstanding. Hold it, you mentioned it's your wife's car ... that means it's an automatic transmission.

    I definitely agree, this forum board is perhaps the most informative source of info I've ever come across (outside of the Dallas Cowboys forum where they post ever single scrub the team is looking into... ha, ha).

    Thanx all for the Rear Window replacement info. It's gotta get done, but there's no rush. Hell, I may see what some rubber glue and stitches can do ... ha, ha.

    Eddie
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    No auto!!

    place <> in place of () in the following command

    (src img="paste web photo address here")
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Mark - excellent. Man, two months sounds short. I spent 6 months looking and never found what I considered a decent one. When I found an absolutely perfect MR2 Turbo, I jumped ship. Somedays, I regret not being more patient (though stomping on the gas pedal relieves the pain somewhat).
    scott155 - I'm not sure your concern about resale value is valid. I don't believe the 2001 models were selling at a significant premium over what 2000 models sold for at the same point in the models year, so I see no reason that they would not hold their value as well as earlier models.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, I know something about resale values, and I would agree with dgraves on this one...I don't see any problem with resale...you must remember that the Miata is very popular and that there are lots of them on the road.....this whole HP thing will go right in one Big American Ear and out the other in about 15 minutes.
  • magik_imagik_i Member Posts: 4
    Well, after several weeks of test driving the 2000s my dealer called me 'cause they had some 2001s in (what I had been waiting for.) The dealer let me and a friend take out two cars (a 2000 and a 2001) and let me tell ya, the 2000 tore the 2001 apart. I ended up buying a White 2000 base model (with the front air dam and side sills) for $18,500 @0.0% for 48months (not too shabby of a deal.) I already bought some 16" Konig and 40 series tires (installed Thursday!!! CAn't wait!!!) and am thinking about putting a Jackson Racing cold air intake and custom exhaust (should add 25 - 30hp). Has anyone installed those mods? Is it worth it? The shop I'm going through said that they would sponser my car if I did those upgrades and also the Jackson Racing supercharger (they claimed it would jack the car up to 250+ hp!!!!) I would probably need a stage III clutch after a few months of driving, but I would give my friend's S4 a run for it's money. In any case, I was just seeing what kind of mods people have done and liked. Let me know. Thanks.
  • eddiesvr4eddiesvr4 Member Posts: 41
    Congrats on the car! That's fantastic. But let me implore you .... don't do the mods!!

    There's something beautiful and honest about the virgin Miatas. Leave it as is. It's a pure and simple car ... meant for the pleasure of driving.

    Those mods not only make it ugly, but sorta wanna-be-ish (IMHO). It's like taking a pretty girl and throwing a ton of make-up on her ... looks almost whorish.

    Sorry, this is just my opinion. Feel free to ignore it. I'm a dufus anyway ... no insult intended to your thoughts of modification.

    But a virgin Miata is so beautiful. No need to change a thing...

    Eddie
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    I feel kind of sorry for anyone who feels the need to purchase something like this, and find it a bit hard to believe that this kit actually sells


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=572172984&r=0&t=0

  • joehenry2joehenry2 Member Posts: 4
    Tom, I checked into the incentive/rebate question myself. Mazda apparently changes its incentives and rebates monthly, and doesn't tell anyone what's coming up next month, naturally. For this month, March, the deal is: (i) reduced interest on financing, e.g. 0.0% for 24 months, or 2.9% for 36 monthts, etc., plus $500, OR (ii) a $1,000 incentive directly to the dealer. Presumedly, the dealer will give you a better deal if you pay cash.

    I was told by a dealer that the two incentives above were mutually exclusive. It didn't appear so on the Edmunds site, so, I called Mazda of North America and someone there agreed that they were NOT mutually exclusive. I then called the buying service I was using and they called Mazda of North America and were told by someone higher up in authority that the two incentives WERE mutually exclusive. I believe they are. I wonder whether I should buy the car this weekend and take the first incentive or take a chance that Mazda will offer a better incentive for April? I'll probably take the bird in hand.

    Finally, how could one talk a dealer into selling for the TMV price, which is BELOW invoice by more than the 2% kickback that the dealer gets from Mazda? Edmunds says that "The Edmunds.com's TMV base vehicle price does not take into account the following items:

    Any Manufacturer-to-Consumer Incentives or Rebates - these are different from manufacturer-to-dealer incentives and don't impact the actual transaction price; the consumer generally has the choice to apply these funds against the sales price as a down payment, or to accept a check for the amount of the rebate or incentive." So, is the reduced financing and $500 taken into account or not?
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    freddy - that link doesn't work for me. Is it by any chance a Z3 kit?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You need to cut and paste it into the location bar on your browser in order for it to work.

    WHY...WHY....it looks EXACTLY like a Miata with some fake Z3 parts glued on it! I had to actually move within 1/4 of a mile of the car to realize it was a fake!

    MODS---I don't see the point beyond tire, wheel brake and suspension upgrades......you spend all this money on an SC, a big sucker intake and some fancy pipes, and you end up with a faster, noisier, higher maintenance, less reliable car with no resale value. I'd think this over if I were you. And I think 30HP is very optimistic for the mods you mentioned, but show us the dyno slips and we are believers!
  • ace10ace10 Member Posts: 137
    jr intake and an exhaust is good for MAYBE 15hp. maybe?

    what shop is claiming this crap? please name names, because they will be the laughing stock of the miata world!!!!!

    a jackson sc @250hp????? maybe 170, at the rear wheels, with the water injector, maybe!!!

    this is the kind of crap that makes me want to puke, literally!

    if this kind of power were easily available, wouldn't mazda be employing it in order to avoid the emabrassment and cost of the current hp shortfall of the 2000/2001 models.

    please... offer the name of the shop who made these claims, because they are REDICULOUS!!!

    i have never, ever heard of such inflated, no make that criminal, claims of power boosting.

    god, i hate crap like this!!!! enjoy your new miata, but please be wary of ludicrous claims.

    ace

    ace
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    Who in the sam hill buys a low-twenties roadster for resale value? isn't this the kind of car you keep long after your third wife has left with your stockbroker?

    I say: do whatever the heck (gee, I haven't used that word since Edmunds forced me to!) you want with it and ENJOY it!!! That's what it's all about. If these resto-freaks want to lay a guilt trip on you, just tell em you'll meet em at the nearest track or mountain road and show em why you did it.

    Nuff said.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Dennis - It kind of reminds me of the George Carlin routine where he says that everyone thinks they are the only the only one who know the exact right speed to drive. Anyone driving faster than them is a nut. Anyone driving slower is a moron. It seems like it's that way with mods, too.
    Shifty - I don't think 30 hp from a filter and exhaust is optimistic. It's absurd. I would be amazed if someone could demonstrate 10 hp from those two items on a normally aspirated car.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    And agreed.

    (Your peception and insight never cease to impress me.) =O)
  • magik_imagik_i Member Posts: 4
    I understand that 250+ up is way out there ... and I know that this is up at the flywheel and not road up, but I know that the supercharger can get it to just under 200hp and with a cold air intake and exhaust you could easily get 15 - 20hp bringing you in at 210+. That's one dangerously fast Miata. Although, I love the sound that the Miata makes from the stock exhaust and I have been thinking that maybe I want to keep it the same. I will be putting a I&N air filter in (I love the sucking noise it makes when you tap the accelerator), but aside from that I may just keep my Miata how it was built ... it's a beautiful car! You should see it with it's 16" wheels. My friend and I were eating breakfast this morning at Burner King and a chick walked by - running her hand along the car as she went - what a hot sight! In any case, I'm having the pin striping removed next week and then I'll have to take a picture and post it. I'm really proud of how it looks ... BTW, if you are still driving around with 14" or even 15", you should consider 16" and a good 40 series tire. I think for the money it's the best upgrade you can get ... it looks 50% sharper and it handles - believe it or not - 50% better. Love those cars!
  • magik_imagik_i Member Posts: 4
    Sorry about all the "up"s ... stupid spell checker!
  • ace10ace10 Member Posts: 137
    the jr cold air intake cannot be used with the jr supercharger. and the exhaust and header combo might, optimistically, get about 12hp at the crank. i don't ever recall seeing any dyno slips, yet, that support jackson's claim of 40% power increase, at least not with the "base" blower package. istill would love to hear about the shop that promised 250hp without using a "real" forced induction system.

    i don't know, i guess i'm just super-sensitive about b.s. claims in the area of aftermarket items. this stuff is pretty easy to prove or disprove. miata magazine has reviewed pretty much all the stuff out there and there are toms of dyno links on miata.net. check them out and see what the real story is.

    ace
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    "..."real" forced induction system."
    Not sure what you mean by that. Is a turbo the only "real" forced induction system to you?
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    will slow you down, unless they're lighter than stock (usually they aren't). The combination of greater unsprung weight and increased rolling resistance (performance tires are wider and stickier) is the poison pill. Better handling? You bet. But you can accomplish that by simply using a lower-profile performance tire on your stock (or at least stock diameter) wheels -- that way you're actually gearing the car down, which gives you better acceleration, while increasing tire width and decreasing sidewall flex -- giving you much sharper handling.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    RE; Mods ----well, I was only trying to let the guy know that if he does all this, not to be shocked when he can't hardly give the car away. If he knows that (and now he does), then you're right, I'm not the Mod Police (Mod Squad?). You wanna take a perfect sports car and turn it into a Camaro--hey---it's your bucks....
  • landscaperjoelandscaperjoe Member Posts: 15
    Took my first road trip in my new miata ls . Went from Chicago to St.Louis for St Pats party. Drove down in that lousy rain-sleet-snow straight down 55 on friday the 16th. The car handled great, never was concerned about braking and was much more quiet than i had expected. I had done a 45 min. test drive along with some short ones and felt noise would not be a problem but never expected it to be a non issue after 4.5 hrs. in bad weather w/ strong wind gust. The best thing was the return trip were I had the top down from St. Louis to Springfield. I love this car. If anyone is in doubt about this car, just drive it once w/ the top down and you will never have a second thought about getting one.
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    "I love this car." It's funny you should say that. When I was shopping, the first question I would always ask is, "Why are you selling it?" The usual answer, "I love this car, I hate to sell it." I totally understand.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    Mod Squad -- I love it!

    And it's true -- mods almost NEVER enhance the value of a car (except for custom wheels -- I've been able to recover some of the cost on resale). But cars depreciate like crazy anyway, and if you like the car more, you're likely to keep it longer -- thereby ammortizing more of your original investment.

    Besides, it's all about driving enjoyment, isn't it -- and it's better for you than chemicals or weird personal habits.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Can't argue with that...of course, I rather like your idea more, of modding a car into a "Q-Ship" (a car that is NOT what it appears), rather than taking a great design to begin with and thinking you can improve on it. Depends what you start with, I think. The 1953 Corvette needed help, and got it. The '55-57 T-Birds should have been left alone. The Miata can be improved, of course, but subtely, in small increments, otherwise you lose the soul of the car I think.
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    http://www.cars.com/galleries/mazda/mono_posto/posto1.jpg
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, it looks like a Maita with the windshield off and the passenger seat filled in with bondo...is this the design answer to the design question that nobody asked? (like the reclining bicycle?)
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    which is why I still prefer the original, even though I realize the current version has many improvements in terms of comfort and performance. The original was SO close to something Colin would do, I just loved it -- kind of a cross between an Elan and a bug-eye Sprite.
  • eddiesvr4eddiesvr4 Member Posts: 41
    OK guys, another question .... has anyone added rollbars to their Miatas? Is it necessary? When I read the disclaimer that the rollbars are for "style" and not intended for safety, I start to wonder.

    Is there a need for the protection of a "real" rollbar?

    Eddie
  • ace10ace10 Member Posts: 137
    dgraves- re:"real" forced induction

    in terms of ultimate, no holds barred power, yes, a turbo is the only "real" choice. no, i do not have a turbo, nor do i have an sc. if one were to be in the market for 250hp, as mentioned, the only choice would be a fm3, maybe with some custom work done. there are probably others. there isn't a jr sc product or group of products that can reach that absurd level. but don't get me wrong... a blower is a great source for easy, usuable power, with absolute limits and, as with any system, definite drawbacks.

    re: upsided wheels. yes, there are manufacturers who make high-quality relatively-light wheels for the miata in 16" and 17". this has been discussed here before. i have 17"ers which weigh about 19lbs, compared to some which can be up to 28lbs. with my 40 aspect tires, the combo is very close to 15" stock combo. downside... without a blower or turbo, there is almost too much stick.

    re: rollbars. this is my hot button. rollbars are for protection, style bars are for.... god only knows. there are at least three mfg's of true rollbars, but they are not equal. one is surface mounted to the rear deck and one doesn't extend past the outside shoulders of the occupants. this leaves harddog as a good choice. there are tons of configurations, and it connects to the vehicle in six places. to the frame behind the seats, to the top of the seat belt posts and to the frame rails beneath the rear deck. it is there for your protection in the unlikely event that you flip the damn car. i think that it looks pretty good too.

    anyway, ask some more questions, please, so i can get out my soapbax again.

    ace
  • MarkinAtlantaMarkinAtlanta Member Posts: 194
    Our '92 came stock with 14" BBS wheels (8.5 lbs) and 185/60/14 tires. If I were to upgrade(?) the wheel/tire combo, seems to me it would make sense to modify the suspension, not up the power.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    As much as I love turbos (I have one, and I have a technical paper on file touting the advantages of turbocharging over supercharging), forced induction is ANY process by which extra fuel is fed to the cylinders -- whether by turbocharging, supercharging or nitrous oxide injection.

    They all have their unique advantages -- superchargers are simpler and often have less "lag", turbochargers are more tuneable and efficient, and nitrous is so silly cheap in terms of what you get for your buck that it's the only viable choice for some people. It's also handy for adding power at low rpm for turboed or blown systems.

    I seriously considered all three before settling on turbocharging -- and it was due more to the support I got from Toysport for the project than anything else. If TRD had a supercharger for my car, I would have installed it in a heartbeat. And if I decide to keep my daughter's Paseo, I'll most likely be taking it over to ELP to have them supercharge it -- they say they can get 250 hp out of it, easy. We'll see....
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