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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
The other major drawback is that the middle seats dont slide so my family is still negotiating as to who gets what seat and how to adjust them. I took out the back seats right away and havent experimented with them as yet. The rear and passenger adjustable AC/Heat is a feature I appreciate much more than I thought I would. And yes the overhead compass/odometer/mileage indicator/thermometer is fun.
I do wish the T&C had better dash lighting at night, and the mileage could be better, although with careful driving I'm up to 19 mph city.
THe ride and handling though is great so that's good. This is the first car I have had in a long time that I actually look forward to driving.
Seriously, Dodge/Chrysler Minivan owners do not bring their vans in for repair every few months. That is a gross exaggeration. We have had two DC minivans covering 19 years of service, 12 on the first and 7 and counting on the second. Neither have been repair free, but certainly have been very reliable.
If they were that bad, they would not still be the best selling minivans by far, even in the current climate of much improved competition.
In addition to the recall, 2% of Odyssey transmissions fail. That 2% failure rate is why Honda upped the warranty to 100,000 miles on transmissions.
If your transmission fails after 100,000 miles, you will be on your own. I was quoted $6000 plus labor by my Honda dealer when the transmission on my 99 failed at 68K miles. Honda covered it. That was before Honda raised the warranty on 99's. I did not expect Honda to pay another $6000 for another transmission for me, so I traded it on a Toyota 4 Runner.
I did very well with the trade in. I hope Odyssey's keep their value for your sake. I think one would be ill advised to buy a used Odyssey.
Dusty
7% would mean dead vans all over the road:
Mr_Shiftright "Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems" May 9, 2004 4:27pm
Steve, Host
Vehicle: 2001-'02 Acura MDX; 2002-'04 Honda Odyssey; 2003-'04 Honda Pilot.
PROBLEM: Heat buildup could lead to transmission lockup, resulting in a crash. Dealers will update or replace the transmission. For more information, call Honda at 800-999-1009.
So far neither son has reported a transmission problem with the 2001 Odyssey EX or 2002 Grand Caravan Sport.
Not really. The Honda Odyssey has far less sales penetration than the Chrysler mini-vans, with Chrysler versions selling at about three-to-one. If you believe that all Chrysler mini-van transmissions are destined to failure (are you seeing dead Chrysler versions all over the road?) then 9% Honda Odyssey transmission failures, or less, is not outside the realm of possibility.
No, I don't have a link since my belief is based on combined information that you wouldn't find on the web. If you consider a 9% failure rate -- that's 90 units per thousand on the road -- per year, that really would not generate much attention. Don't forget, the national average is roughly 4.6%.
Best regards,
Dusty
The transmissions they install are "rebuilt" by a 3rd party. So you get a non-Honda transmission to replace a bad Honda transmission.
My rebuilt transmission had a 1 year 12 K mile warranty. That was at 68 K miles and before Honda included 99's in the 00, 01 and 02 100K warranty. I told Honda all they had to do was get me 2 blocks down the street to the Toyota dealer.
BTW It was a good thing I kept my radio code. They had disconnected the battery and left the radio dead . They told me to punch in the code when I got home.
I have been comparing one son's 2001 Ody EX he bought new with another son's 2002 GC Sport he got as a used vehicle with 13k miles for about half the cost. The GC Sport is much quieter, smoother riding, and has many nice features that the Odyssey does not have. The GC Sport also gets better gas mileage than the Ody EX.
The Ody EX has more comfortable seats, the 2nd row seats slide forward and back, and the 3rd row seat folds into the floor. BUT, the GC Sport has separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger, overhead console with compass/temperature and an accurate Trip Computer, lighted controls on the doors, heating coils at base of windshield.
My 2002 T&C is almost identical in features to my son's 2002 GC Sport but I got the 7 year 100,000 mile "Powertrain Pledge Limited Warranty" that covers the powertrain and the DaimlerChrysler "Added Care" for 7 years and 75,000 mile warranty that covers almost everything else with a $100 deductible.
Both warranties were transferred for a total cost of $150 since the original owner got the DaimlerChrysler "Added Care". Otherwise, only 6 months and 9,000 miles of the 3 year and 36000 mile warranty would be all that I would have had.
I would NEVER buy a used Odyssey since they don't cost much less than a new one. However, the high initial depreciation rate of DC minivans make them the BEST BUY.
2004 Honda Odyssey EX 4dr Minivan (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
2 Recall Notice(s) for your vehicle
11 TSB Report(s) for your vehicle
We are in the market to buy a van, trying to decided between the 2005 DCaravan, 2005 Odyssey(coming soon next month?), and the 2004 Sienna
Any advice is appreciated.
Traded 1964 VW Beetle for a 1970 Dodge van when we had our 2nd child and needed more room (and a heater). Traded 1970 Dodge for a 1976 VW Bus and the 1976 VW Bus for a 1980 Chevy van when each of them became too expensive to maintain. Kept the Chevy van until traded it in 1999 on a Chevy Tracker when the Chevy van also became too expensive to keep. Traded the Tracker on th Blazer when it became obvious the Suzuki built Tracker was a lemon.
I am NOT in a hurry to sell the T&C and get the 2005 Ody. Who knows, this T&C may be so reliable I will keep it for many years especially if Honda dealers become as greedy as they did in 1999.
I just checked and called Crutchfield about the bezel and was advised that they did not have any?
What was the item# you purchased?
Thanks,
George
Honda Odyssey Review: http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/honda/odyssey/rts20041101ho.- - asp?affid=
Selecting the right tow vehicle: http://www.automedia.com/driveSmart/ccr20040801tv/ccr20040801tv.a- - sp?affid=
My nephew purchased a NEW 2005 Odyssey EX for $25,409 + $199 Doc Fee + sales tax on November 30. The MSRP of 2005 Ody EX is $28,510 and Edmunds lists the TMV as $28,510.
I like my 2002 T&C LX that has many nice features but would have purchased the 3 model year newer Odyssey for only $11,259 more than I paid.
The engine compartments are too crowded in FWD vehicles for sufficient cooling that is provided by the space inside an engine compartment of a full size pickup or SUV. I feel that the smaller V6 engines and transmissions are working too hard while the larger V8 engines and larger, heavier duty transmissions and radiators of the full size pickup and SUV have the necessary strength for towing.
The Honda (and Toyota) vans simply could not be equipped with what we wanted and still remain in our price range. The Dodge came exactly as we wanted and was much less money. So while it's only a lease and I won;t be able to report on reliability long term, I have to say I am impressed with the DGC so far and have not regretted our decision to go domestic.
Isellhondas, what was really frustrating in the Odyssey & Sienna was that we couldn't get the feature we wanted (power tailgate) on a vehicle with a cloth interior and without all other kinds of doo-dads we don't need. I didn't want to pay $35K for a Ody Touring or $32K for a Sienna XLE. With the Dodge I could get everything I wanted and nothing I didn't want. I am not worried about long-term reliability. The Dodge was an easy winner for us in this situation. However if I were buying instead of leasing I'd be driving an Ody or Sienna.
My wife and I have researched and test driven vans for a couple months and we are down to the Ody vs. a 2005 T&C.
Best we could do off an Ody Ex-L with DVD/Navi is 1300 below MSRP and a discount on accessories. We put down a refundable deposit but the van isn't even scheduled to be built until tomorrow.
On the high-end T&C Ltd, we could start negotiations at 1% less than invoice because we are part of the affiliates program. From there I got it down to 30500 with some additional free accessories. That's $8K below MSRP. And the van can be swapped within a week. Plus, it comes with power rear liftgate and other features the Ody doesn't. But it doesn't have stability control, which bothers me.
Now, we are not in a hurry so waiting isn't a big deal except the local sales tax rate goes up Jan. 1.
I have always bough foreign cars (owned a Honda. Toyota and Nissan) and feel comfortable with the reliability and resale. But when the deal is that different for the two vans, what can we do? I am still torn and have to make a decision soon.
I would have purchased a new 2005 Odyssey if I could have purchased one in August with a $3000 discount that my nephew claims he got on November 30. However, my lowly 2002 Chrysler T&C LX has some features I like that are not on the 2005 Odyssey EX even though the Odyssey has more comfortable seats and more cargo space than my T&C.
Remember, money not spent does not depreciate, and it appears we are talking maybe a $7K-$8K price differential favoring the DGC over the ODY.
So while the Ody may indeed not depreciate as fast, in this denver5357's choice, he still is out this extra $7K-$8K immediately. And, since even the added increase in sales tax is important to denver5357 by waiting for the ODY, this buyer appears interested in keeping his costs down.
In my opinion, $7k-$8k that is still some serious money. The $8K you don't spend if saved can go a long ways toward your next vehicle purchase, or maybe something more important, like a retirement account!
The DGC vans in most respects will do anything one could ask for in a family hauler, quietly, smoothly and with decent handling.
The T&C is $8K under MSRP, and the Ody is only $1300 under MSRP, but since they are different model vans the actual botton line price difference is T&C Ltd. $30,500 vs. Ody Ex-L $33,500 (when you add dealer fees).
So it is both a dollar difference question and a value question (features and price vs. reliability). I'd like to think we would keep the van for 10 years, but given the technology improvements every 5 years or so I could see us trading in at 6 or 7 years. We have one child and another on the way, so we are probably looking at a minivan (one or more) for another 10-15 years.
This decision is just eating at me.
Second one is a 1996 Caravan(bought as a leftover in March 1997), now at 79K miles and running fine. No transmission or engine issues to date except one minor transmission shaft seal leak that was fixed at nominal cost this year. Only costly repair has been the AC, twice. We probably will keep this one another couple years or more.
So, two Caravans, nearly 20 years of driving them, never stranded! We can't complain much, and will likely buy another one when we replace this one. They are too handy to be without, even though our kids are grown.
You having a young and expanding family, will have plenty of places to spend your cash, so I would recommend buying inexpensively, keep it a long time, and you will do fine. You could also look at a well equipped (though notloaded) Grand Caravan SE+ or SXT and get you out the door costs into the low $20's as well, so don't overlook that option. It isn't necessary to spend $30K either and still get a very nice DGC van.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-UKTL5Hzth3z/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=1- 58XVC701S
In my situation with a 24 month lease (no worries about 100K mile reliability) it made sense to go with the Dodge but you won't feel 3K over 60 months and you'll have a van worth something down the road.
For an additional $100 or so, the GC SXT has the 3.8L V6, power sliding doors both sides, cast wheels, and other less significant extras.
The T&C Touring is a more expensive clone of the GC SXT at about $800 more.
I have a nice 2002 T&C LX purchased as a used vehicle for about half the MSRP of a new T&C LX or GC + with almost same features. I don't have Stow-N-Go but they don't have the heating coils at base of windshield and a trip computer that also has "instant economy" reading.
I had planned to sell it when pricing of 2005 Odyssey is discounted but the accounts of wind noise and poor radio are scary.
Going for a drive.....bye!
The Odyssey has the most comfortable seats, most cargo space and the "Magic Seat" provides better and more easily accessible extra cargo space than the 50/50 fold and tumble 3rd row of my T&C.
However, the T&C with 3.3L is quicker off the line, quieter, smoother ride, and has many more nice features like triple zone temperature (driver, front passenger, and rear passengers can have separate temperatures), complete overhead console with compass/outside temperature and accurate trip computer, lighted controls on doors, heating coils at base of windshield, more convenient spare tire location and gets better gas mileage than the Odyssey EX.
When I compare a new 2005 Odyssey EX with a new Grand Caravan SXT now, the choice very close but I would probably buy a 2005 GC SXT instead of a 2005 Odyssey EX.
Or SUBSIDIZED - BY - DAIMLERCHRYSLER
Worry about tomorrow later for today's sales...you would THINK they would have learned by now?
Based on reading owner comments here in Town Hall about all minivans, reliability of Chrysler is as good as Odyssey, Sienna, or any other minivan.
I planned on getting a new Sienna based on initial statistics, but after sitting in many, the actual 2004 Sienna did not measure up to my expectations.
The 2005 Odyssey has measured up to the expectations until my nephew sent me an e-mail stating his new 2005 Odyssey has a "whistling noise" at speeds of 35 MPH or higher.
My 2002 T&C LX is quieter and smoother riding than my son's 2001 Ody EX and I paid half the amount he did...but my 2002 T&C LX had almost 27,000 miles but still has more warranty remaining than the 2001 Ody EX had when new.
My nephew purchased a new 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth - MSRP $28,510) for $25,409 which is a $3101 discount.
Who now will buy a used 2004 Odyssey when a new 2005 costs less?
My son paid MSRP for his 2001 Odyssey EX. His 2001 depreciated another $3000 as soon as the discounts started on the new 2005 models.
Why didn't Honda learn from Chrysler's past experience with discounts and rebates?
I was shocked at the 2005 town & country. What a cheap made van. My 98 is much nicer. I could get a great lease deal but it is too cheaply made. I looked at the Honda Odyssey and the Quest basic models. No frills or bells as I want to lease and toys break. The honda lx was 349 per month 36 months 15,000 miles per year. No money down and it included all taxes etc. Is that a good price? I live in the Boston Ma area. Donot know if that matters.
I did not check into the Dodge. How does it compare to the Honda Ody lx. My biggest concern are the second row middle seats. The Honda was the only van that had real seats. How is the ride and comfort.
Sorry this is so long ,but I sm nervous to lease a car and not sure which one.
I think you may want to "review" what your nephew paid for that Odyssey. No HUGE discounts that I've seen and...WHY?
Granted, the cloth EX's aren't in the same demand as the EXL's and above buta dealer sure shouldn't have to dump one for below invoice.
Honda doesn't play the short thinking rebate games and I hope they never start.
I have seen ads for new 2005 DGC for about $15K - which may be tempting but you get what you usually pay for. These include sloppy handling,very noisy, sub-standard quality, inferior/weaker engine, poor overall performance and dependability. If you can live with those and is only prepared to spend $15K, then the choice is clear by default. But I believe that many would prefer better refinement and reliability.
You cannot go wrong with the Ody or even the Sienna. If you want good handling and an engaging driving experience, go for the Ody. If you want a passive, quiet driving experience, go for the Sienna.
We drive a 96 Merc Villager, which was great for 9 years, but has recently had an expensive transmission repair and other annoying problems (air conditioning that can’t hold a charge, etc.), and we also would like something a bit bigger. My wife’s overall impression was that the 2005 GC SXT was cheaply built in comparison to our Villager, the GC engine was rougher and felt weak, and the Villager drove like a car while the GC SXT drove like a boat. We liked the Stow-n-Go, but the show-stopper for us was the resonance/ear drumming at our normal autobahn cruising speed from 70-80 mph. Does the SXT we drove have a quirk, or is this normal?
I have driven one son's 2001 Ody EX, another son's 2002 GC Sport and now my 2002 T&C LX. The Odyssey EX is NOT as quiet and smooth riding as either the GC or T&C. My nephew recently sent me an e-mail telling of the "whistling noise" in his new 2005 Odyssey EX at speeds 35 MPH and above.
Buy the Odyssey or Sienna if you want to pay more than for a comparable GC or T&C.
So far, I haven't heard it.