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VW Touareg SUV

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Comments

  • bulsarabulsara Member Posts: 21
    I know there was some previous discussion, about the marks on the rear seats, when they are laid down flat, to carry a load in the back.

    Has anyone out there found a simple fix, to stop the indentation marks, on the leather backs at the top of rear seats?

    I am also afraid that over time, or with the wrong type of quick laying down of the load, it might puncture the seat's leather. I do not carry very heavy stuff , just groceries, bags of pet food or fertilizer/mulch...or stuff like that.

    Thanks,
  • bulsarabulsara Member Posts: 21
    Would the use of Mobil 1...whenever...not void the VW warranty?

    Is it within the specs, of what VW have recommended?

    Has anyone got their VW Dealer, to change to Mobil 1, at a service?

    Thanks,
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    My two current Audis are serviced at the dealer who uses Mobil1 (at an upcharge) 0W 40 in Audis (same engines as VW's) and Porsches (dual dealer). This dealer, until recently also owned a tier one VW dealership and they too will use Mobil1 (for an upcharge).

    I don't know if this means they are violating some rule of VW/Audi of America -- but this doesn't seem to be an uncommon practice.

    For the record, I use Mobil1 on the chance that I may decide to keep my leased vehicles -- and the reasons and the effects of Mobil1 (and other syn oils) are pretty well documented here and on other Internet sites.

    Net: Syn oil is "cheap" insurance.
  • elemintelemint Member Posts: 79
    i see the invoice for the v6 about $31k. Anyone getting near invoice?? Also does anyone know of any rumors about a 4 or v6 diesel coming out? I would buy this car in a minute if so. Milege even in the v6 is still not good. American over sized engine market is out of control unfortunately. Todays european diesels are amazing. I had a 1.4 Liter diesel in europe this summer and i got 700 miles on one tank!! It was FAST to boot!
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Look here:
    http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-4- 0.asp

    Mobil 1 0W-40 is VW approved for their spec: 502.00/505.00,503.01

    I bring my dealer 2 - 5 quart bottles at each oil change. They use it without any discussion.
  • elemintelemint Member Posts: 79
    Someone told me that preimium fuel is what this suv takes. Is that true???? How can that be? Low milage and high priced fuel to boot??!!! Looks like my dream car is turning out to be a joke.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    Have you considered the Touareg V10 TDI? If I remember correctly from some articles I have read, it is expected to be stateside later in '04. It gets better fuel economy than either the V6 or V8, and has a lot more power. If I remember correctly, the V10 TDI is rated at 17 city, 23 hwy with power ratings of around 310 HP and 553 lb-ft. Combined with the 26 gallon gas tank, the hwy range for this heavy SUV is just shy of 600 miles. The added benefit where I live is that deisel fuel is priced the same or lower than unleaded regular.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The "VW/Audi group" 4.2 engine will cost more to run on "less than" premium fuel, although, technically there should not be any "harm" to the engine.

    Both power and MPG will suffer, however, if you use regular fuel.

    My dealer says "you don't make enough money to use regular gas, Mark."

    The net is, it is a false economy to use regular in a car designed for premium -- and it is a waste of money (assuming the additive packages are similar) to use premium in a car that is happy to run on regular (designed to run on regular, that is).

    The Touareg is designed for premium -- at least the 4.2 version is.

    Given the fact that you would spend more money, over the year, if you used regular, what is the issue? The thing is heavy, well appointed and is a Luxury Sport Utility vehicle -- perhaps waiting for the diesel or going with somthing MUCH LIGHTER would be the logical options.
  • highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    yes, I mean long chain polymer, but was thinking about the organic acid chain....
  • lauklauk Member Posts: 1
    I've had my T-reg since 1st week of Dec. it's been back to the dealer twice for electrical short but I think the problems are fixed. Other than that the vehicle is great, absolutely a blast to drive, and always a new feature to check out. I have the V8 premium pkg and I was wondering if anyone has installed/integrated XM sat radio or a cell phone to the navigation/radio.
  • twinbladesztwinbladesz Member Posts: 104
    The V10 will give you in the 20s for fuel economy. BUT it comes at a 57K base price according to links from the Detroit Auto show.
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Both have been done. Here is a link to how it is done:
    http://www.tm-techmark.com/tri.htm
  • ann50ann50 Member Posts: 4
    To bulsara. Sorry to have been so long writing back. The changer I got from Tweeter was Alpine CHM-S630. it is about a quarter inch longer than it should be so you might see if they have one just a little shorter or maybe they can put it in better than I did. I had bought a panasonic and could not find the connector. Tweeter said they could order one but had the Alpine and appropriate connector in stock. I looked at it initially and estimated I could put it in in about 5 minutes. The changer case in the back was just a little too short and some of the padding stuck over it. I didn't want to injure or change anything so took the shelf out and made it fit my changer. This required taking off one side bar. it fits fine, works perfectly, and I have had no problem. You might measure for real before buying one, but Tweeter says you can bring it back if you keep the carton. The whole thing was just at $300. there are cheaper changers which work just as well. I have several of them.

    A note to everyone else: VW changed my engine at 1620 miles. No hassle. it was their idea rather than attempt to evaluate or repair. I really don't know what the final verdict was as to the injury. My car runs perfectly, everything, including all electronic. the serial number is just above 23xx. it is on the dash at the end of the series. The only problem I have is splitting of the wood dash where the wood was bent by the manufacturer. VW acknowledges it and is going to change it. I love this car. I am sorry there are so many complaints. my friends with the comparable Lexus, Infinity, Benz or BMW have had more problems and have generally acknowledged a lesser car. it seems I have a pretty responsive dealer. less than 10 days over the Thanksgiving holidays to ship the engine from Germany and get it in. the car has not been back since. I will probably never see any depreciation of its value due to the engine change, because I am going to keep it for a long while. I maintain it is the best driving vehicle on the road.
  • bulsarabulsara Member Posts: 21
    Thanks for the reply...I see you're in Dallas too. Which Tweeter did you go to?...and who is your VW dealer who did the engine change?

    Mine runs great...but just for future knowledge.

    Thanks,

    Cy Bulsara
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Unless the dealer wants 2x or 3x the price of an aftermarket changer, I can't see why you would want to use an aftermarket changer.

    Best is to negotiate the price of the changer right in with the car (if it doesn't come standard) and confirm it will be covered by the full warranty.

    An aftermarket changer will not be covered by as good a warranty as the changer. You may end up needing a second one in a couple of years should it fail after the warranty runs out.

    I actually tried a CD/MP3 changer in my Touareg from SSI America. They use a NEO box converter. I had lots of problems with it. I even visited the company on Long Island. They still couldn't get it to work correctly with the Touareg. I finally returned it for a refund.
  • rower2rower2 Member Posts: 22
    I had my touareg in low this morning. It was 4 degrees out and when I got onto the highway, it wouldn't go over 50mph. I had to pull off and put it back in high and then it ran fine. I've had it in low before without a problem. Could this be a weather related thing or is this something I should get checked out?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Should you be driving on the highway in Low? Typically 4wd low is meant for under 25 MPH.
  • hiflyerhiflyer Member Posts: 79
    I believe low gear (or some contol that one engages) limits speed to 45 mph as a safety feature for off-roading.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Most low ranges multiply the drive ratio/gearing in the transmission...so 25 MPH is like 50 MPH in engine speed. I am not sure how the VW low works, but for example the drive ratio in my Isuzu Trooper is multiplied by 2.48:1 when in low range. Anything above 15/20 MPH is like shifting into 2nd gear at 50. So it isn't limited for safety feature (except maybe to protect the drivetrain from falling out), but rather it is designed to deliver 2 times or some multiple of truck power to provide better offroad performance or maybe boat ramp towing.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We now have a Problems discussion so if you have a specific issue with your Touareg (and even better, a suggested fix), please report on it in there. Thanks, here's the link:

    VW Touareg: Problems & Solutions

    Steve, Host
  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    You can't go over 50 in low. Thats why its called LOW. Its for the really soupy stuff....
  • brundogbrundog Member Posts: 13
    Subject says it all.

    I think this is printed in the manual. And if I recall correctly it even states that the max speed varies in this mode between 45 and 60 depending on the engine, though it doesn't clarify which does what.

    Besides, you probably shouldn't drive on the highway in LOW. Otherwise it would be called the lowway...

    -BD
  • rower2rower2 Member Posts: 22
    This is where the dealers need to get their facts straight. I admit that I did not read the manual so shame on me. He told me that I could ride in low on the highway and the big difference is the gas mileage. The last time I had it in low there was so much snow on the highway that I don't think I took it over 40. So today, I'll sit and read through the whole manual. Thanks for the info.
  • bulsarabulsara Member Posts: 21
    One should never exceed 40-45mph in LOW even on a highway, that is ice/snowbound. It will damage your differential. LOW is mainly for off-road driving, at around 20-35mph in difficult terrain.

    Please read your manual thoroughly and watch the VHS tape that came along with your T-Reg.
    It's really informative about this stuff.

    Cy
  • roweerowee Member Posts: 21
    Just started driving my new (>;#25000 )2.5 TDI(not sold in North America). Drove off-road via high mud and crossed some swamps.Folowed the manual carefully: raised the car to Extra-Max (58cm.)+LOW gear.Did not need to lock any of the differentals.Engine did not get wet(except for lower part)Water did not enter passenger cabin(checked floor mats and under for humidity)
    Generally very happy with decision.Torqe of this engine much better than V-6(whom I find very sluggish to say the least!)but not as good as the V-8(i can not afford it)
    found no problems mentioned on this site;no wistle sound from roof area(i have the "spoiler" put close to each ather) no seat belt buzz when car is not in motion(buzz starts only at a certain speed)no problem closing rear door and hatch.
    drive on high way(in "sport" mode-as opposed to "comfort" mode) is very smoth and cost efficient.In urban driving with bad road surface use "comfort" mode for extra cushion.
    so far (1,500 K) can report only a slightly demaged cup holder(near the gear shift)and a few scraps found on the door wood panel(cherry) done probebly by the local dealer when prepering the car for delivery.
    Thats all for now; had i followed the complaints on this site(i have been reading it since July 03) i would most probably not have chosen to order this car, but i did follow several leads of European origin who spoke more positive will report again if any new problems show up.
  • nazcanazca Member Posts: 2
    Nice to hear you are pleased with your 2.5 TDI. I just ordered one in the UK and I'm looking forward to getting it.

    Shame these are not available in the US, but I suppose you can't blame the Americans for driving cars running on petrol with it being so cheap over there...

    I have test-driven it and I was very impressed by the refinement of the diesel engine after also test-driving the diesel versions of the Mercedes ML, the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Volvo XC90 which sounded quite tractor-like.

    I was also very impressed by the interior which blows away anything else I saw in its class.
  • roweerowee Member Posts: 21
    Well, these Americans driving petrol will soon be driving the finest T-reg of all;THE V-10! And they most probably will be paying for this super car less than us Europeans are paying now for the V-8.(not to mention the cost of Diesel at the u. s. gas stations).
    I have also test driven the xc90(volvo) T6(petrol)and diesel, the Toyota Lend cruiser, the ML,the Range Rover. The only suv superior to
    the T-reg was the Range Rover.Incidently, local VW agent claims there are no more 2.5TDI`s to be ordered till 2005(Aug 04).Do you consider that claim valid based on whats going on in the u.k. market?
  • nazcanazca Member Posts: 2
    I guess the availability of specific models will depend on your particular market and the number of units assigned to it.

    In the UK the waiting times are about 5-6 months at the moment, as far as I am aware. Crazy, when in the US you can just walk into a dealership and choose your car right then and there if you want to!

    In the UK VW is selling the Touareg through a small number of dealerships in order to enhance the impression of exclusivity and luxury it would like to promote. I suppose only time will tell if this strategy will work.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    While it is true that here in the US -- at German car dealerships, VW, Audi and BMW in particular -- you can walk in and choose from a large inventory of cars -- it is, for most of the people I know, still impossible to get exactly what you want unless you order it.

    For example, it is rare to be able to find one of these fine cars (or SUV's) highly optioned and with a stick shift. Or it is difficult to find the options and color combinations you want "in stock."

    Most of the people I know lease their cars for equal to or less than 39 months. Why would anyone settle for what is on the lot if it were NOT exactly what you want and then keep it for 3 years?

    The folks that I know simply end up ordering their cars -- and I know that this is apparently the minority operating procedure.

    5 or 6 months to get EXACTLY the car that I want is no big deal. Looking over what is now apparently a growing inventory of Touaregs (and having spent some time on the VW configurator), I still don't see any combination of Touareg colors and options that would match my wants/needs (unless I wanted Black, apparently).

    To this day, one of the coolest cars that we could acquire in the US, a Passat W8 6spd with sport package apparently does not exist at any VW dealer within reasonable driving distance from Cincinnati -- heck, the VW dealer nearest to me rarely has more than one W8, and even then, keeps it in the back of the lot, as if he doesn't want customers to discover it.

    I, for ONE -- and I do mean 1 -- would love to exclusively order cars; after all they are the second most important purchase we make. Most of us spend big bucks to customize our houses, apartments, condos etc., and many of us build new homes every year so that we can get them as we want them (and, when I had my house built, it took over 6 months).

    We have become a consumer of $50,000 cars "on impulse" society at least it seems this way at times.
  • mmee1mmee1 Member Posts: 19
    I'm 3 weeks into my Touareg ownership and I think it is an incredible vehicle. Drove straight from the dealer to the Sierras where it snowed for a week. Tiptronics in the snow and it feels like its on rails. I punched out of 3 feet of snow overnight like it was shaking off a couple inches. All done while I enjoy the interior of any luxury sedan I've been in.

    Regarding postings about price. If you want an Accord, call every dealer within 200 miles, but for this vehicle, you better find someone who really knows what they are talking about. I found an extremely knowledgeable contact at Bob Lewis VW in San Jose, CA. He picked my family and me up at the airport in holiday traffic, took us to the dealership, we had already agreed on a fair price and I have the comfort of knowing the vehicle is prefect or he will make it so.

    Couple things I have not heard mentioned here. The rain sensing windshield wipers are incredible. No more constant adjusting through showers. The sound systems adjusts slightly for higher speed. I went to turn down the radio as I exited the freeway and it was doing it ahead of me. The tan interior has a beautiful chocolate brown dash and steering wheel.

    Word on tires. Consumer Reports (January 2004) has a good article on wheels, "When less in more". It shows snow performance dropping off significantly when you move from 16" to an 18" wheels. Even more for the 19". If you are using your vehicle in the snow, something to think about.
  • sciencegeeksciencegeek Member Posts: 41
    I ordered my T-reg in the third week of Oct 2003 and it's here. Took three months to the west coast. Depending on how quickly the order is filled (function of the exact model/config one orders), luck in the timing of shipping and trucking, and one's location in the US, it'll take from 2 -4 months for one's car to get here.

    I agree completely about the $50K impulse-buy observation.

    mmee1: nice post! I hope to be joining the happy T-reg crowd soon.
  • 1257212572 Member Posts: 7
    I am hooked! Currently drive an Audi A6 2.7t. Have been reading the posts here and thought why not?. Drove the V8 and V6. The V8 has a lot of power and the engine note was pure music. The V6 IS a little slower off the line. Now, I am not one who races around, although did kick up those bi turbos on the Audi on occasions. Would like to hear from folks with V6- are you happy with acceleration on an everyday basis? I am not going to race or drop it in 24" of water or climb rocks. Please comment.
    MR in Indy
  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    The V8 is a rocket, however if you're not an aggressive driver, the 6 is plenty. I think its definately peppier than a 6 cyl Grand Cherokee or Explorer. Evaluate your needs; you'll get a better discount on a 6, too.
  • tregownertregowner Member Posts: 26
    I have 4900 miles on my V-6, and can say that it has plenty of pep for average driving. I live in a hilly area in No. Cal, and it gets around just fine. I find that when I'm getting on the highways, I either go into tiptronic and shift through the gears, or use the "S" position. In any event, I'm at 80 MPH and passing just about everyone else with no trouble. You will have to use the gears a little more, I imagine, than if you had the V-8, which you could just leave in drive and floor it. But, half the fun is working the gears. The car handles great on winding roads. I test drove the 8 first, and will admit that it was much faster. But, in the end, I didn't really need the additional power. I just need to get in and out of the snow, which the 6 does just fine.
  • touheadtouhead Member Posts: 6
    I have had my Touareg for two months now and have put 4000 miles on it. This car has been nothing but a joy to drive. me and my wife commute to work together and when we bought this car we were just going to use it for the weekends. well our BMW 325i wagon has sat in the same spot since we brought the rag home. it's comfortable responsive peppy and just fun to drive. we do on occasion here a whistle sound at hi speeds ( 80 + miles per hour) but such is life. We found if you roll the window down then up it stops. But I wouldn't call it a complaint, we love the car to much. If you are considering a purchase ignore the na sayers and get one now . Im sure you wont regret it.
  • woodberywoodbery Member Posts: 10
    I have had a 6 for just over 3 weeks, I went to the dealer planning to drive both the 6 and the 8, but after driving the 6 I was convinced it was enough. I have a bass boat and jet ski that I have to use a 4 wheel drive vehicle to take in and out of the lake behind my house. It has worked perfectly so far.

    H
  • elemintelemint Member Posts: 79
    Why the hell is there no 2.5TDI in the states????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    This really pisses me off. I would by this car today if they made the 2.5TDI here in the states. Not only is it disapointing for a potential buyer but irresponsible in a conservation sense!! Look at the NUMBERS!!

    Fuel Consumption
        Urban 21.4mpg - 13.2l/100km
        Extra-urban 36.2mpg - 7.8l/100km
        Combined 28.2mpg - 9.8l/100km
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I think there are more dignified ways of expressing frustration and they would be more appealing to our general readership.

    tidester, host
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    First of all, there is a huge, and I mean HUGE, prejudice in the US v. Diesel..."Oh! it smells bad, all that black smoke, and it is soooo noisy."

    Very unsophisticated, Americans are when it comes to this technology...Even the Feds are throwing one billion USD @ Hydrogen...Any idea just how much energy it would take to produce a usable quantity of hydrogen? And, where does it get stored @ -425 degrees? Diesel technology has been thoroughly embraced in Europe...1.0L TDIs getting in excess of 100 MPG. In 2006 all sulpher will have been removed from our diesel fuel, and we will have ALL of our TDIs here...

    But, we will still have spent all of that money on hydrogen...Go figure!!!!!!!!!!!
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Any idea just how much energy it would take to produce a usable quantity of hydrogen?

    Yes. The energy cost is ZERO if you use solar energy to generate the electricity to separate the hydrogen from H2O. Wind power, hydroelectricity and nuclear energy would also offer viable options.

    And, where does it get stored @ -425 degrees?

    Why would anyone store H2 cryogenically when it's totally unnecessary? All you need to do for automotive purposes is store it at modest pressure or in combination with an adsorbing material such as platinum. We aren't talking about rockets that require the highest density of hydrogen they can get.

    tidester, host
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    If it was as cheap and easy as you make it sound, someone would be doing it already and the world would beat a path to his door.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .it was an E Class car. It had a five speed automatic. I drove it between Munich and Garmisch, on the autobahn (down and back).

    I was able to easily achieve 200kph (124+ mph). I sat the cruise control for a time @ 180 (110+mph) because it felt "about right."

    The time was early fall, the a/c was required, I was with my friend and we had two suitcases in the trunk.

    There was no smell, no indication period that this was a diesel, except the fuel supply did not drop as rapidly as my high velocity ways would have suggested.

    Moreover, my wife and I took the Audi Winter driving course in Seefeld Austria and the cars they chose to use for the classes were A4 2.5TDI's with 6spd stick shifts. Again, even starting the cars after all night in the bitter cold seemed "gasoline" normal. The torque was better than the gas versions I have driven and or owned other than the 2.7T engine equipped models.

    Diesels have few, if any, drawbacks that I can -- at the current level of technology -- enumerate.

    I read that US diesel fuel is, presently, too dirty to be used in a modern German diesel -- but, that this dirty fuel will be replaced over the next year or two (here in the US) with European quality (cleaner, i.e.) fuel.

    My recollection of the Jetta diesel (which was in the early 80's) was positively cemented when we drove from Cincinnati, Ohio to Petosky, Michigan (to go skiing) with four adults and their luggage (an 11 hour drive) and only stopped once for fuel. Since that time, I have hoped for the VW/Audi group to bring some of the most excellent diesel outfitted cars to the US since my experiences with them in Germany and Austria have been "the best of both worlds" -- high torque and great milage.

    Bring 'em on.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    If it was as cheap and easy as you make it sound, someone would be doing it already and the world would beat a path to his door.

    The question was about the cost of the energy needed to produce hydrogen along with the unreasonable assumption that hydrogen would have to be stored cryogenically. The energy is cheap but, of course, the cost of setting up the infrastructure for delivery and so on is not negligible.

    tidester, host
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    I may be wrong, but I do not believe that Americans are really very fond of nuclear power plants...That leaves coal or oil...And that closes the circle on this...

    Mark...As is quite common..."Prejudice" is based on ignorance, and that is the situation with Diesel Technology and it's benefits in 2004...When we eliminate the sulpher from our Diesel #2(2006), as they have in Europe, the light will magically come on...
  • st4s03st4s03 Member Posts: 9
    Just checking to see if any listers have dealer experience in the Denver area with discounting the V6. Also any comments on V6 performance climbing the mountain grade and high altitude?
  • mmee1mmee1 Member Posts: 19
    Did not notice any drop off in performance. Four people and the back filled with gear and it felt great to me. Tiptronics on a steep, snowy, winding section at about 6K ft, it moved out nicely. Now, I was not trying to pass everyone, but I could keep the rpms right where I wanted and the thing felt like it wanted to climb.
  • roweerowee Member Posts: 21
    In Europe V-6 considered sluggish to say the least.No demand for this engine type(used successfully on other VW models;Golf, Passat)Personally i would go for the v-8 or wait for the "super" car the V-10. V-6 owners,who bought their T-Reg a year ago are trying to replace them. The car (with offroad pack)is simply too heavy , and the torque (305Nm at 3200rpm.) not sufficient.

    Remote problems; Works fine for 50`+ from ALL angels. Doors,rear hatch etc. can be set via the Main menu-Convenience Set-up(page 23 in "controls and equipment)
  • elemintelemint Member Posts: 79
    V-6 is not selling in europe because there is a v-6TDI option, period. In fact they cant make the v6TDI fast enough. As for here, nobody who bought a v6 is going to upgrade for a v8 unless they are a wealthy teen aged. $5k more for a few more horse power in a car that is not made to go fast is foolish, and the mpg is much worse. IT is the the transmit ion that matters when it comes to weight, NOT the engine. Land rover has been making 4 cylinders for land rovers for 50 years. One last point. Even edmunds did not like the V8 and said it was to jumpy ie too much power. Bigger is NOT better.
  • roweerowee Member Posts: 21
    Its really a 5 cylinder TDI engine with 174bhp and torque of 400Nm at only 2000rpm.This engine has less horse power then the v-6 but its performance(with the higher torque at lower rpm`s)is far superior to the v-6. So i agree with elemint ,Bigger is NOT better.
    Incidently, European consumers who shop for petrol engine on the T-Reg will opt for the V-8
    and will not settle for a Diesel as implied in ms g.#1677
  • jd1318jd1318 Member Posts: 7
    elemint, i couldn't disagree with you more. first of all i don't consider myself wealthy, but i considered $5k for the v8 option a bargain.

    first of all it's not $5k for just a few more horsepower, it's 90 more horsepower, over 40% more coming from a luxury grade engine that powers the $70k audi a8. and when your talking about a 5300# vehicle that makes a big difference. but lets not forget everything else that goes along with the v8 option, like leather interior, 12 way power driver and passenger seats with lumbar, bigger wheels and tires, etc. as far as the gas mileage being much worse, it's not, there's a 1 mpg differance. and edmunds saying they did not like the v8 is just false. they said, "no one would dare argue against the buttery v8 that offers more than enough power. it is a terrific engine and it's 310 horsepower moves the 5300 pound suv with authority." they did say the throttle was a little jumpy in stop and go type driving. this is because of the electronic (drive by wire) throttle pedal, it took me about 500 miles to get used to it and now i can drive my treg as smooth as any car i've ever driven. if edmunds had put in enough seat time i'm sure they would agree.

    bottom line , when you consider it's $2600 for a nav system, $5k for the v8 option is a steal.
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