Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I'm ready to buy and can't find a dealer who is discounting much, if anything, at all.
I just got my new Automobile magazine -- they noted the R32 @ "gulp" $32K was "pricey.
In the same issue, the Phaeton at $62K base for the V8 and over $70K for the W12 were both "relative" bargins.
The Audi TT with the same 3.2 6 will be over $42K and it is now back in line with "it's worth it."
I only differ with these notations by saying that to me the VW R32 does not seem expensive when compared with the $42K TT which it shares many components with.
I still think that the Touareg will be a hot sale item because of its content for $$$. Clearly we don't all see it that way and I think that is healthy.
I actaully agree that the Phaeton for $62K could be considered a bargain (it was and is compared with Mercedes costing over $80K) -- but I never thought I'd see it in print in Automobile magazine.
When the Touareg was finally released on June 30, it was quite a shock. The local dealer marked it up and wouldn’t let me drive it – (he almost wouldn’t let me sit in it). I finally drove one and really liked it, especially the engine, the fit & finish, the design and styling. I was turned off by the smallish back seat and the excess weight and unnecessary (for my needs) off-road equipment. I was also turned off by the expensive and heavy options that drove the price up to $49K and the curb weight to 5600 lbs.
I expanded my search to the 2004 Touareg, a 2003 allroad 2.7T, a certified 2001 X5 4.4, V8 and a 2004 Volvo XC90 T6. They are all priced in the $42 - $45K range.
The allroad is terrific, except for a slight turbo lag and tiptronic hesitation off the line. It is beautiful, impeccably built and finished, and fast. But its engine left me cold, it sounds unrefined and strained under load. No comparison to a BMW I6, or any V8. The 2004 4.2 s are available but beyond my target price. In the end I had to eliminate the allroad because it does not meet the 6000 lb. gvwr I need for the section 179 tax break.
The Volvo was compellingly practical and straightforward. I could make a great case for buying it just based on the clean-cut interior and third row seat. I like the looks. It looked perfect on paper. I seriously considered European delivery at the end of December. But after driving the BMW and VW V8s and coming back to the twin turbo I6, I was totally underwhelmed. For the money, it lacks personality and a decent engine/tranny.
The X5 was impressive, its power almost brutish. The ride was choppy and hard, it felt like the wheelbase was too short. The finish materials and interior design are inferior to both the Volvo and the VW. The engine is set so far back in the chassis (I assume to achieve the vaunted 50-50 weight distribution) that it robbed space from my right leg, making it somewhat uncomfortable to drive longer distances. The dash was odd and angled up, and I could never see the radio and clock display (with and without nav) in daylight. The car had more wind and road noise than the other three. But that engine was so sweet and flexible, it almost made all these objections irrelevant. In the end, I eliminated the X5 because I intend to keep the car for at least 6 years. After 3 years, the X5 will be six years old and have run close to 90000 miles. Because of pricing, I never considered a new model.
I drove the Treg again, right after the X5, with the wife and 3 kids. This time, it was a “bare bones” V8, and I couldn’t find anything I didn’t like about it. The steering, handling and engine were right up there with the X5, although it felt a smidgen more ponderous and less loose. The ride and road noise were better. The cabin is impeccable, the front seat is very roomy, and the styling is classy and elegant (more than I can say for the X5). I am not hung up on brand names and labels, and I’ve always liked the low-key nature and image of VWs and Audis compared to the BMW or MB. I’ve had three trouble-free Passats and two Jettas and my A6 has been perfect, so I’m not concerned about reliability.
And finally, for $42K, I can have a lovely V8, a gorgeous interior with good-quality leather and wood, heated seats, and even rain-sensing wipers. For thousands less than even a 3.0 X5.
One local dealer has quoted me $2000 over invoice (best I can tell about $1400 below MSRP), and another, $1000 below MSRP. I am checking with several other local dealers before I place an order.
In my view, this car is an incredible value. The same V8 in the Audi is about $10K more, and the BMW V8 is $14K more. You just can’t beat it. Especially if I can get an even better discount.
The V8, with standard equipment, is one helluva bargain!
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=43013
If you MUST have a tiptronic, the only one to go with would be the allroad 4.2.
Be aware, however, that "tip lag" is still a feature of this transmission. The turbo lag sometimes mentioned is possible but not all that probable, as the engine reaches full torque below 2000 rpm -- most folks find the differences between the two cars (2.7T versions that is) with the two transmissions is like night and day.
Moreover, the 0 -62MPH time of the 6spd is 6.8 seconds; the V8 can only muster 6.9 seconds and the 2.7T is 7.3 seconds (tip version saps the power).
The allroad with EVERY POSSIBLE option (except solar sunroof and auto transmission) plus the "factory" phone is just south of $50K -- and is usually discounted decently.
The air suspension of the allroad gives it nearly Jeep Grand off road capabilities and it can tow 3,300 pounds if that is important.
The only problem with the allroad right off the truck is that the OEM tires -- kindly said -- ain't worth a damn, they suck! So, truth be told you'll need another $400 - $500 for all new rubber from the get go. My dealer immediately took the factory rubber off and put on Pilot Sport A/S and even plus sized them for me. I decided to keep the stock rubber so when I turn the car in I can put back the new tires and it will be back to "normal."
For what it is worth, the 2.7T allroad w/6spd is among the quickest if not THE quickest almost SUV out there; it is more off road capable than the BMW and less off road capable than the Touareg.
The main point, worth repeating, is to test the allroad in both tip and 6spd form before you form any impression.
Of course I would offer the same advice on the Touareg -- try both engine versions.
I looked at the Teak interior in both Nappa and cricket, and actually prefer the look of the cricket. The premium plus package seems over the top. The air suspension seems great, but it adds weight, complexity and cost - and I for one don't intend to use the Treg off road. I'm more concerned about performance and fuel (in)efficiency and cost. The standard V8 is an X5 beater as is.
Unfortunately the 6-speed isn't an option for me since I commute in bumper to bumper traffic and am always on my cell phone. (Also, my wife has to drive my car some three times a year and can't drive a stick).
The V8 allroad was terrific. It is a class act and is superior to the S6 as a package IMO. I would have bought it if not for the tax break (I have to finance and not lease, so anything over the low $40s gets really expensive, and the car has to weigh more than 6000 lb gvwr).
The allroad v8 is lighter, more stylish and less imposing than the Treg V8, but a few thousands more expensive. The 2.7T 6-spd is all the above but faster and cheaper.
In the end, I agree with you that you have to drive all the versions, and decide which one is best for you based on your parameters, like the section 179 tax break.
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
Thanks,
Steve, Host
Seriously, your wife should learn to drive a stick -- there is every reason to believe that sometime somewhere it could be important. So I don't accept that excuse . Second, and this is serious, may I request that you not drive while using your cell phone unless your phone is both hand and eyes free (which in the allroad with the combination of On*star and the built in/removable "factory" phone you automatically get.)
If you would like the stick shift and traffic is so heavy that you can't "enjoy it" well that is one thing; but I promise you there will be "laws" removing our rights to even talk on the phone in the car -- and (I'm winking and smiling) you will be part of the reason for this draconian measure.
Today with the technology that is available there is no reason for anyone to have to hold a phone while driving.
The other reason I am railing on about this is, even though I don't know you, I have no reason to want you harmed or killed -- and the chances that that fate will befall you are very greatly improved if you continue to drive and use a cell phone that is other than hand and eyes free.
Now about that weight thing, perhaps we could have a steel plate welded to the allroad V8 and then it would weigh enough to meet the requirements.
Nothing I am saying suggest however that I think the V8 Touareg is anything less than a genuine value and a great SUV!
Drive it like you live! (hopefully safely)
I appreciate your comments about driving and cellphones. OnStar sounds like a pretty good system. I had a voice activated hands free phone in my S-type, and it never worked right for me. I’ve been using a V60 with one button preprogrammed numbers and a hands-free headset for a while now. Works well for me. I’m pretty careful and take no chances when it comes to driving. I want to make it home to tuck in my 3 kids every night.
As for the weight thing, at first I was turned off by the whole idea of a 6000+ lb vehicle. But then I spoke with my CPA and drove the Treg with steel springs. A match made in heaven!
I expect to have four firm quotes in hand by Thursday. As soon as I have them in writing, I’ll let you know for sure. Let’s see who follows through on their phone promises.
Even though the Treg is less practical, and some would say less of a luxury brand, I have this thing about the burble and power delivery of the Treg and X5 V8s. Passion over reason.
sold units...
second, a couple of folks have made reference to a tax break for vehicles over 6K gvwr. can you elaborate on this? what kind of tax savings does this represent? thanks.
I found a good explanation of the tax break at this link, on autospies.com. http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000154682.cfm . I have also seen several articles in the NYT and others. Basically, if you are self-employed and purchase a new vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 6000 lbs or more (not the curb weight) for business use, then you can depreciate the entire value of the vehicle in the first year, up to $100,000. I researched this and found that many medium sized SUVs qualify for this, even the X5 3.0 and the XC90 2.5T, as well as the Touareg and the Cayenne. The Explorer/Aviator and even the Lexus GX470 do not. Sadly, the Audi allroad does not either. I discussed this at length with my CPA first.
So if you buy a $45K Touareg, it looks like you can expense the entire cost on your 2003 taxes. That would be quite compelling.
Caution-The Lexus GL470 is listed, but does include a 6000lb GUVW.
http://kiplinger.com/php/tools/trucktax/tax.php
Only with the 7-seat Versatility package. The 5-seaters are under 6000#.
I used the Edmunds "get a quote" service to contact a bunch of dealers. I found the majority to be quite responsive and reasonably flexible. At first, they were only interested in dealing on cars they had on the lot, but when they confirmed I was serious and ready to buy on the spot, they all agreed they could locate one for me. I found one very competitive dealer in a post on vwvortex.
I’ve put down a deposit on the exact car I want, with the dealer who was extremely straightforward: it is scheduled to be delivered by the end of the month.
I haven't seen any definitive details on final assembly anywhere. I'm curious if you have any more information.
I asked the service manager of my Mercedes dealer why they dropped the air suspension (this was decades back, when I was driving a 300SEL 4.5 V8, the last of the monster, air-ride Benz cars). He said: "The air suspension is an expensive system that lets you drive safely at high speeds over bad roads. Mercedes determined that most customers in North America don't actually drive at high speeds over bad roads. The cost exceeded the benefit."
And he was right ... it was easy to drive nearly double the speed limit on most highways without a feeling that you're travelling fast.
So, if you're regularly driving on bad surfaces, the air option should be checked out. But if you're on smooth streets and interstates its probably a waste of money. Any feed-back from owners with Air?
v6 with air suspension and rear lock(full option) vs. v8 full option.. is there much difference when ride on onroad and offroad? I'm affraid to waste money to get V8.
I test drived T-reg V8, XC90 t6, Avaitor, Yukon Denali(just for fun), last week...
The best drive was Tourreg V8 in my experience!! but, how about V6? because I want to get V6 one...
Drove my V8 100 mile round-trip today, passing some slowpokes on a divided two-lane blacktop. I would not have been able to safely execute most of those passes with the V6.
Get the V8!
So the V8 is really not that much more expensive here in the USA. Now in Korea, it may be completely different.
How does the S setting affect your gas mileage?
http://www.auto.t-online.de/test_technik/vergleichstest_3er_displ- ay.jhtml?repId=/contentrepositories/DE_de_comparisonTestReportRep- ositoryXML/XML/ComparisonTest357.xml
http://www.auto.t-online.de/test_technik/vergleichstest_3er_displ- ay.jhtml?repId=/contentrepositories/DE_de_comparisonTestReportRep- ositoryXML/XML/ComparisonTest352.xml
In Korea, BMW and Mercedes are also some more expensive than Volkswagen..
However!! The T-reg price, just issued, is almost same as those two German Luxuries.
The difference (at price) is sooo little.
Is T-reg V8 that worth as BMW X5 V8 4.4L or ML500 V8?
Has anyone else felt this, or was it just this particular T-reg?
There were many things that I did like about it:
1. Great interior, but the Teak is kind of a strange color. Also Cricket looks nicer than Nappa. Maybe a little too much wood though.
2. Exterior has a high quality feel, even if the profile looks a lot like a Hyundai Santa fe.
3. Car handled great, very solid, air suspension added a lot of variety, and seemed well worth getting.
Botom line: To me it seemed worth the money, and I have not seen a SUV that I like better yet.
Well... my friend came up to my house in NE PA and we went to a dealer in Scranton who was actually a nice guy. Once you're out of NY it is like a different world. We test drove the V6 and turned back after two blocks. That car could NOT get out of its own way. We then took out the v8 with all the goodies and as soon as my friend accelerated I loved the sound of that engine. Thing is, VW engineered TOO much sound to enter the cabin. They need to definitely hush it. The car handled fine until my friend crossed some broken pavement which upset the car's poise. We both heard a creak coming from the car and that was the deal breaker for my buddy. He drove back and was OVER the T-Reg. Overall, I think my friend was too critical but he just didn't like buying a luxury SUV from a dealer network that can take lessons from Saturn!! Too bad, because I think this vehicle has a great deal of potential. VW needs to train their sales people on customer service. I can only imagine what it will be like trying to sell Phaetons!!!! Good luck with your purchase. If you can wait, there WILL BE DEALS to be had. Don't pay MSRP!!!!
It blows them away, though. Probably blows away the small BMW V8 too, but I haven't compared.
AND go with V-8, not V-6. To our surprises, they don't make ANY DIFFERENCE at all when it comes to gas mileages! I'm only getting only 14 (average) on local drive, even though I baby it. I should have purchased V-8. I'm regretting now.
The lag is the computer figuring out what you just asked the engine, transmission combo to do based on your input via the accelerator pedal. Presumably, the thing will "learn" what you want and lag will almost vanish -- almost.
I had the same thing on my Audi A6 4.2 (MY 2001) very slight "turbo-lag" and of course it was not a turbo.
I got over it -- but I don't have it now with my 2003 6spd manual allroad.
Personally I'm not interested as the engine has less power than a Chevy Trailblazer V-6, and the T-Reg is close to 5,000Lb. I'm in no hurry to buy a vehicle so I'd like to look at a "owner's demo." Diesel at some time in the future.
I'd like to see a "baby T-Reg", stripped down to <3500 Lb with the v-6 or a small diesel. Now that I'd snap up in a minute.
Imagine if they used a negative stereotype like this car kills like XYZ people there would be basis for a law suit. Using a positive stereotype shouldn't be so widely accessible, because positive to some, may still not be to all. (that was kind of PC)
The answer to my question may be "no", however I think there is basis to the theory.