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VW Touareg SUV

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The image of an Indian would have been used with the Jeep Grand Cherokee? Is placing an Indian on a vehicle in some way disrespectful?

    I give up on this PC stuff -- what is the offense we're trying to avoid.

    Is Touareg or Cherokee in some way a negative term? -- what about the Pontiac Montana or the fact that the emblem for Pontiac used to be the likeness of a Native American Indian -- are we somehow suggesting that these names are "bigoted" (or whatever the point is)?

    Anyway what does the name Touareg symbolize?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Nomadic desert tribes from Northern Africa.

    Bob
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "It's pronounced "Tour-regg" -- emphasis goes on the first syllable, then it's quick and sharp on the second syllable. The word translates literally to "free folk," and refers to a nomadic tribe whose travels regularly take them across the Sahara Desert. Such harsh terrain demands a strong physical and emotional constitution, and knowing that, it shouldn't surprise you that a sport-utility vehicle has adopted the name of this people."

    Editors' Review

    Steve, Host
  • sc430pilotsc430pilot Member Posts: 6
    I've owned 2 BMWs, my first a 2002 and my last a 735i. I seriously considered betting the X5 2 years ago, but after reading all the quality problems owners were having a BMW X5 forums, I decided against it as it was clear that BMW was not working to address the issues....common problems kept coming up and dealers and BMW didn't seem to deal with the root cause, let alone acknowledge the complaints. Before I bought the V8 Touareg, I also thought about waiting for the new X5 this fall as its not far away, but then while it will have significant improvements, I just don't trust BMW to get it right not only the first time but then afterwards if problems occur. My friend who has a Z3 is very unsatisfied with service/repair of a leaking top. And there was a recent forum complaint about our local dealer regarding a new X5 that soured me. BMW has clearly lost all sense of style....and Chris Bangle is not the only one to blame...all management and the Board sign off on new designs. Yes it comes from Bangle's warped leadership over design, but what are all the rest of BMWs managers smoking? Anyway, the X5 is about the only current design that will get better. So I wouldn't count on reliability in the BMW being better than the Touareg....and there is already a recall on the tire pressure monitoring system. Mine after 10 days says the right rear is low, but the pressure is fine.

    Yes there is a throttle response lag on occasion when not at a complete stop that is annoying at minimum....so no California rolling stops are advised. I very much like the V8 and already have over 1600 miles in a month. The only lack of punch is when looking to pass or accelerate quickly when going 40mph or faster. With the very high gearing of something like 4.56 rear end, much higher than the Cayenne, the Treg has better low end punch at the expense of punch and fuel economy at higher speeds. If one truly wants a response SPORT SUV experience, the only real solution is the Turbo Cayenne. I did test drive it and almost bought it. My wife said get the VW and spend the difference more wisely......so I did to the benefit of our favorite charities and still got a new digital camera, a new home theater system, and a nice 37" LCD HDTV for the kitchen....and have change left.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    I have made up my mind and my next SUV is going to be the Touareg V10 TDI, I understand is only a question of months now before they arrive.

    The diesel engine will give the power of the old American big block iron, really much more, at 553ft/lbs of torque without the poor gas mileage of those engines, it propels the heavy SUV at 23mpg and 0 to 60 in 7,8 secs which is very fast for a heavy vehicle and it meets the Euro IV emissions requirements ahead of schedule.

    Reading the link below a few things come to realization, some have said the Touareg is heavy but the reason is that from the very beginning of the project the power plants were being developed in parallel and the V10 diesel was one of them and it produces lots of power, that meant that the transmission and drive components had to be designed and built strong enough to handle the torque, same for the body to handle the torsion forces, in fact a British article said one could jack the Treg one wheel in the front and another opposite in the rear and all doors will work flawlessly, so for a V6 or V8 you have an extra strong drive and platform.

    The V10 has been nominated this year the best big engine of the world, it reaches maximum torque at only 2000rpms and top speed 140mph, for a complete review of this advanced engine.

    http://www.stealthtdi.com/VWDieselHistory.html
  • jaekyun2jaekyun2 Member Posts: 8
    How about T-reg V8 Vs. Aviator Full option?
    or T-reg V6 (w/ Air Sus) Vs. Avaitor Full option?
    Cannot decide between two...
  • bangorangbangorang Member Posts: 7
    Test drove one this weekend. The most beautiful interior I have ever seen in an automobile! Love everything except the slight hesitation in acceleration. Its #1 on my shopping list. Was gonna go for the GX470 but that vibration issue is a sick joke for a 50K $ car...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    When are the T-Regs supposed to hit the dealers in quantity?

    Pardon me if you piped up before, but are there any owners in here yet?

    Steve, Host
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    about 45 to 60 days ago. If they aren't there in quantity it is because they are not lingering on the lots too long. I've had mine for over 5 weeks now and am loving it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's curious that there doesn't not much buzz about them around the other discussions like, say, the FX45 - seems like you get a lot of the Cayenne technology for lots less.

    Steve, Host
  • jasonsewelljasonsewell Member Posts: 1
    Hi all,

    I'm working on a FAQ for the Touareg. It's not done yet, but I've put an early version online.

    http://www.touaregfaq.com/

    -Jason Sewell
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A little off-topic drift is normal and tolerated.

    I'm just curious why some cars seem to get people more excited - Boise is a small town and I've seen an FX45, but no T-Regs. No Cayennes either though.

    The post count between our FX35/45 discussion and this one isn't that far off, but I just can't shake the feeling that VW hasn't grabbed a lot of eyeballs with their SUV. I see plenty of asides about the Passat in the SUVs discussions for example.

    Inquiring minds. Or maybe it's just me :-)

    Steve, Host
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    The FX has been out for almost year now? It is going into its second model year soon. As I stated, Touaregs have been on dealer's lots for just 45 to 60 days. You should stop at your local VW dealer and test drive one.

    I am not surprised that you haven't seen one in Idaho yet. Aside from the few on local dealer's lots, I've only seen 2 others on the road in my travels through CT and NY over the last 5 weeks.

    As for not seeing a Cayenne versus an FX, the Cayenne is much more expensive, and also hasn't been out as long as the FX. Price will dictate sales volume on anything.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Someone just posted a sales link for July SUVs sales:
    Auto Site

    T-Reg numbers were ~1700 ytd at the end of July, '03.

    Steve, Host
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    T-reg is not generating anywhere near the "buzz" that the FXs or the H2 did. Most either love or hate the FX45's extreme styling. I personally think it looks like it belongs in a cartoon, but have friends who thinks its gorgeous. T-reg styling is much the same nondescript jelly-bean look of other upmarket Japanese SUVs have had for the past 5 years. I was very disappointed its SO boring looking. I was hoping for something a bit more agressive. The styling of Jettas and Passats drew potential Honda and Acura buyers in droves. The T-reg is having no such reaction and seems to draw primarily VW loyalists. On top of this, VW tagged it with an truly odd and ungraceful name that's invariably met with "Huh?".

    T-regs are starting to pile up at my dealer...he had 5 last week, now has 8 on his lot, and says he's already pleading with VW to provide T-reg incentives. Besides their uninspired style, VW also has a hurdle to jump in getting buyers to pay Lexus and BMW prices for something with VW so conspicuously on the grill.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    A reporter with a major magazine is looking to interview owners and people who have shopped for VW Touaregs or Passat W8s. If you fit the bill, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, September 5 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.
    Thanks!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • sambucasambuca Member Posts: 17
    My Touareg was delivered yesterday afternoon. V8, Offroad grey with gorgeous Teak cricket interior. No extra options, since it comes very well equipped, and I don’t need the navigation/air suspension/ xenons – I’m also trying to keep down the price, as well as weight and complexity.

    I was hoping mine would have the sunshades, but it doesn’t. No problem, I think the standard tinting is sufficient. No flashlight either. The CD changer is on back-order because all the ones they had have been co-opted for cars with Nav.

    The car is amazing. The V8 is sweet, the steering just right. And the looks classy and distinctive without being showy or attention grabbing. It does bounce more - and the road motions are exaggerated - compared to my ‘99 A6, but the ride beats the X5’s by a mile.

    Pluses: engine, handling, steering feel, responsiveness, that gorgeous interior, size, looks, price. A very complete and satisfying package.

    Minuses: the left side mirror whistles annoyingly. The hatch stays locked even when the car is unlocked. The seats are a smidgen less comfortable than my A6 and quite a bit less than those of the Volvo XC90 I almost bought. That’s it.

    I cross-shopped the Audi allroad (everything I loved about my A6 plus fixes for everything I had disliked about it) but it was too light for the tax break, and I didn’t like the twin turbo. The V8 was more expensive. Also, the Volvo XC90, which is more practical, and has the most comfortable seats, but is extremely dull, dynamically, and relatively expensive. Finally a certified BMW X5 4.4, which was amazing dynamically, but had a busy choppy ride, much cheaper-looking and badly designed interior, and is too popular in my area.

    I also considered (for a brief moment) the Lincoln Aviator , Ford Expedition and Chrysler Pacifica. All three underwhelmed me very quickly, despite their attractive pricing.

    After an initial nasty experience with a local dealer, who wouldn’t let me drive one, almost didn’t let me sit in it and tried selling it at a $5,995 markup, I shopped 5 VW dealers through the edmunds.com website. Funny how that same local dealer now responded on e-mail with an offer of $1000 off MSRP. Two other dealers were also pretty straightforward, but two others played the usual dealer games, “just come in and we’ll work something out”, “tell me what other offers you have and I’ll beat them”, trying to convince me the “stripped” V8 I wanted wasn’t available and trying to push me into a fully loaded one in a different color. They didn’t call back when they said they would, then even tried to sell me another car after I told them I had given someone else my deposit on exactly the car I wanted.

    I bought from Dirito Bros. in Walnut Creek, because he was very efficient and straightforward and gave me an excellent price with no games. Most importantly, he delivered the exact car configuration and color scheme I wanted. He was responsive, and didn’t make any promises he didn’t keep. I could have beat his price, but he really earned my business. I highly recommend him. Best of all, in the two weeks it took for my T-Reg to be delivered from Houston, I managed to sell my A6 for $2000 more than my negotiated trade-in. So I’m a happy camper.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Enjoy your ride; sounds like a really nice vehicle. You bought shrewdly. Keep us apprised on your driving impressions. Safe motoring.
  • maurcedesmaurcedes Member Posts: 38
    I read the piece on VW diesel history, but I'm more interested in the future. Will this V10 Toureg diesel use the common-rail technology or just an improvement on existing injection technology? If I'm going to spend the money I want the best one.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    ....I've been looking forward to the release of the T-Reg for quite some time now. We've got a '99 New Beetle that the wife absolutely loves, and we'll be needing a replacement for our Ford Explorer that comes off of lease next May. In addition, our VW dealer has treated us really well over the years -- wish we could say the same about our Ford dealer!

    I've been reading this forum pretty regularly, so I've seen what others have to say about the T-Reg. In addition, the wife and I saw the review of the T-Reg on C&D TV as well.

    My observations, even though I haven't driven one yet:

    pros:
    - The interior is gorgeous .. the combination of the leather and wood is quite striking.
    - The air suspension got some favorable comments from the wife, who stands 5'3" and drives a few dirt roads each day to work, plus the winters we get here in Colorado.
    - Fit and finish seem to be good.

    cons:
    - No in dash CD changer. This, folks, is a deal breaker to Mrs. Michaell. Our Beetle has a changer in the trunk, and she absolutely hates it. The Explorer has the in dash changer, and it is a feature she won't compromise on.
    - The rear seat legroom seems terribly small for a vehicle as big as it is.
    - Price. $42K for a V6? Ouch and double ouch, when we could get a loaded V8 4Runner for about the same price.

    Neutrals:
    - Looks. Kinda generic looking - the wife prefers vehicles that are "distinctive", hence the NB. She calls my Saturn L300 "genericar". Then again, she also likes the looks of the Nissan Xterra and the Dodge Durango, since they are "macho" looking.

    Can't comment on power, ride or handling, as I didn't drive one.

    Overall? I know it seems petty, but unless VW rethinks its position on the CD changer, we'll probably go elsewhere. I will, however, try to get the wife to at least drive it next spring when we start looking in earnest.
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Pretty small item to be a deal breaker. I guess that's why there are so many vehicles on the market; everyone has different priorities.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Member Posts: 243
    Glad you've got a good dealer.
    Just imagine how many vehicles VW could sell if ALL dealers were as good!
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Maurcedes> The VW fuel injection is the company’s own version of the common rail principle, common rail stands for one highly pressurized fuel line feeding all the injectors and the injectors acting in fact as valves electronically activated, be assured that VW injection systems are state of the art and right now they are the leaders in diesel engines for the automobile application. The TDI system as the article said operates with pressures up to 2050 bars that translates in pressures above 29,000 PSI that is an unbelievably high pressure, to give an idea, a fine stream of liquid at that pressure can cut a finger off in fractions of a second, this high pressures are needed to completely atomize the fuel for a more efficient burn.

    Another way of looking at it is the fact that VW because of their innovative system is the only brand selling diesel cars in the US at this time, although somewhat detuned because of the US diesel quality.

    Lastly you can say that the CDI and the VW TDI are improvements over the old systems which in fact that’s what they are.
  • maurcedesmaurcedes Member Posts: 38
    Thor8, I was not sure how VW was compensating for the poor quality fuel in the US. From what you say, there is a way to adjust the engine to deal with it. Is this the same engine technology they employ in Europe with the cleaner diesel?
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'm not arguing the point, but for $40K+, one would think that the in-dash changer would at least be an option! Trust me, Mrs. Michaell will reject a vehicle for what many believe are "petty" reasons, including, but not limited to, the following:

    * A small back seat -- even though she never sits back there.
    * A large turning radius -- again, she doesn't make too many 3-point turns, but for some reason when she test drives a vehicle, she always pulls a u-ey just to see. It's what sold us on our '99 Expedition -- it maneuvered better than the Beetle!
    * Comfy seats and interior ergonomics. One of the few things she dislikes about her Beetle are the firm seats and lack of interior storage space.
    * Decent range from a tank of gas.
    * It has to have enough HP to get out of its own way.

    One of the things I've done is to build a simple spreadsheet that summarizes these things for her - I show the relevant stats for our current vehicles, then show the same stats for the SUV's we're considering. It contains stuff like:

    - Pounds per HP
    - Gas tank range, which I calculate by taking the tank size - 2 and multiply it by the highway MPG rating - 2.
    - Turning radius
    - Front headroom and rear legroom
    - luggage capacity

    Some vehicles, including ones that she likes, are pretty quickly eliminated this way. She's not one to drive 6 or 8 vehicles before making a decision -- this just helps her narrow her choices down to 2 or 3.

    I know my method is not perfect -- please, no flames or arguments on the way we do things -- but it's a starting point for us. She'll also point out vehicles and comment upon their looks. I'll make a mental note to add it to the "to be considered" list.
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Actually, she has some quite valid criteria. But a 6 disc CD changer will yield up to 7 hours of music, so there isn't that much changing unless she drives a couple hours each day and only listens to CDs. And if she really has to listen to a certain CD, she could use the single disc in the front. I guess that if all the other features of the vehicle were exactly what you want, will you really let the rear CD changer keep you from purchasing? Frankly, I really doubt that there is such thing as the perfect vehicle. Life is full of compromise.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    VW is famous for that. The passat didn't come with a changer, let alone a CD player at all 2 years back (I don't know about now). The dealer wanted $500 to install their own CD changer.

    Perhaps it is a way for VW to pass on profits to the dealer since this is a desired option in most cars these days.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I know, I know. Her commute is 20 minutes each way, so I really don't understand her desire (demand?) for this feature either. But, never argue with a woman, especially ones that you're married to. Words to live by.

    My Saturn has only a single CD slot, and I'm perfectly happy with it -- though juggling CD's at 70mph on I-25 can be tricky at times!

    Will it be a deal-breaker? I don't know. I do think she should drive it.

    Lucky for us the auto show comes to Denver in March and we won't be buying until April or May -- I've already informed her that we *will* be going to the show and she *will* evaluate the cars on our list. She hates going to dealers and I figure this is the best way to see all the players in the shortest amount of time. The idea is that we can try to narrow it down to 2 or 3, then drive those "finalists" and make a decision.

    sbcooke: we had the changer installed on our NB when we got it in '99. Cost was similar to what you posted.

    And I agree -- there is no "perfect" vehicle. If I could find one car/truck/SUV that had every feature available that the wife wanted, it would probably be out of our price range. So yes, we will have to compromise in some fashion.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    Head and legroom are the top priorities for me when shopping for a car. I'm 6'-7" tall and don't fit into most vehicles. I had a chance to test drive a V-6 T-reg with all the bells and whistles (including air suspension, nav, etc.) I was quite impressed. Normally I do not fit in any vehicle that has a sunroof but I was able to sit in the T-reg and not feel too cramped. I usually have to extend the seat all the way back to provide enough leg room for me but in the T-Reg there was still a little rearward travel available after I got comfortable in the front seat. My 10 year old son sat in the seat directly behind me and had plenty of legroom. The V-6 engine also had surprising verve. If the majority of your driving is just around town and you don't plan on doing any offroading or serious canyon travels, the V-6 should be plenty of engine for most drivers. The vehicle also handled very well for a vehicle as heavy as it is . . . that being said, if your wife has a high criteria for head and leg room in both front and back seats, and she is only 5'-3" tall, there should be enough room for a passenger as tall as myself to sit comfortably in the rear seat directly behind her.

    I understand your wife's desire to have an in-dash CD changer. We have a six disc unit on our MPV and I have just the single disc unit in my Passat. I have never come into a situation where I want a 6-disc player in my Passat but I appreciate the 6-disc unit in the MPV since it is the vehicle we use for extended highway jaunts.

    I would love to get a V10 TDI T-reg when they are available (amazing power, great fuel economy for a V10 power plant) but unfortunately, they will be priced a bit north of my comfort zone. I would opt for the V10 TDI primarily because I would like to take it off road and I do travel through many canyons and mountain passes for work . . . I still have a year and a half remaining on my Passat lease and perhaps by then they will have some lease return T-regs available down in the price range where I can afford to pick one up.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Maurcedes> It is basically the same technology they use in Europe, the big problem is that of emissions, the diesel in Europe has a lot lower percentage of sulfur, less impurities and the cetane number is slightly different, at the higher performance levels it cant pass emissions requirements, that is why is detuned here in the US.

    For comparisons lets take the numbers of the Bora (that is what the Jetta is called in Europe) Over there the 1,9 TDI high performance engine delivers 150hp and 236ft/lbs of torque, that is a very impressive number for a little 4 cylinder engine, that kind of torque you will find in a V6 engine, check around, although the engine can rev up to 5000rpms coupled with the 6 spd transmission it will cruise at 70 mph at only 2050 rpms, that is very remarkable and above all it can deliver 65mpg, that is also very remarkable, nobody can touch that.

    On the other hand the Jetta sold in the US with the same 1,9 TDI deliver 90 hp and a torque of 155ft/lbs and 50mpg which they are all good numbers but look what the potential of the engine is.

    This leads to the conclusion that the V10 TDI engine will be detuned for the US market since low sulfur diesel is not available, it really is irritating the situation here with the big oil companies.

    I found a couple of good articles, in the first one, top executives of VW admit the Touareg V10 will be available in a few months, expect shortages of the diesel version since all diesel engines of VAG are in high demand,

    Second, VAG is continuing in its push for more models and better dealers, is planning cash incentives of up to 600,000$ for dealerships wanting to upgrade and recognizing that the brand needs quality improvements is addressing the problems, this should be good news for the Treg owners who should benefit from this new determination already in place with the SUV.

    The second link provides good information and pics of a new VW sports car that looks very much like a Porsche Boxter.

    http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6106

    http://vwvortex.vortexmediagroup.com/artman/publish/iaa_03/articl- e_172.shtml
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I understand that there was some legislation passed that requires US deisel sulfur levels to be lower by 2006 to be closer to the levels in European deisel fuel. Once that happens, the market should open up to more of the deisel engines that are available in Europe.

    Of course, big-oil has their hands in plenty of pockets in Washington and will probably find some way to push back that date to prevent them from having to spend additional money to refine deisel to the higher quality levels.

    Your link to the VW concept R vehicle is nice. I read a recent article stating that Audi would be incorporting the new 3.2L VR6 engine in the TT .
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    My local (in SoCA) VW dealer is advertising a basic no-option T-Reg V6 for $399/mo on a 39 mo. lease with $3050 cash + tax at signing. No other details or breakdown (apparently they don't have to publish the fine print any more), but I'd like to know the fees, money factor and residual so I can start tracking VW lease fees for use shopping a bit later. Has anyone got a breakdown on T-reg leases thru VW? It appears they're using a whopping big residual or super low MF.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    I just wanted to ask you something out of curiosity, we have a Passat, I am 6,3 I can slide the seat all the way back and I have too much room, I have to bring it forward, how is the seating situation for you.

    I agree with you about big oil, I doubt we will see low sulfur diesel by the due date.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Overall, your assessment of the T-reg is pretty good. However, one more "con" to add is: no full-size spare--not even as an option. This is a serious omission on VW's part, if you ever get serious about off-roading or towing..

    Bob
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    Would rather have the 26.4 gallons of fuel than a full size spare. If you are really going to do serious offroading, you could always get a full size spare and put it in the cargo area or on the roof like real offroaders do.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    A "Full Size Rear Mounted Spare Tire" is an available option (1G3)beginning with Production Week #34/August 18th. Price:TBD/
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    This is an important option for offroading. However I also bring along fix-a-flat. Most situations where I might get a flat offroading would be next to impossible to change a tire. Getting a Jack to work on different surfaces is hard also. They should make the cargo covers a hard material so you don't have to lug around a 2x2 piece of plywood with you also. Although miles from nowhere, even if you can use fix-a-flat to get unstuck, you definitely want to get a full size on at the first opportunity.
  • maurcedesmaurcedes Member Posts: 38
    It's a shame that the other automakers are investing in questionable "hybrid" vehicle technology when they could use proven diesel technology IF they were to join the fray in lobbying against the big trucking companies (them more than "big oil") who want diesel fuel to stay dirty and cheap. It also doesn't help that the "environmentalists" are anti-diesel engine when they should be anti-dirty diesel fuel. If the Clean Air Act requirements are implemented in 2006 as scheduled, we'd have 15 ppm sulfer as opposed to ave 330 ppm now. That would be a HUGE air quality improvement and the increased performance of diesel engines would motivate subsequent bonuses in terms of energy conservation. I think the enviro's are rowing the wrong boat on this one.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My point is that VW designed the Touareg—and is promoting—the Touareg as a legitimate off-road vehicle. That being the case, a full-size spare should have been part of the design specifications from day one, when the engineers got the assignment to design/engineer the vehicle. It should not be an "add-on" option.

    While I'm glad to see that VW is going to at least offer a full-size spare, across the board, as an option, the rear-mounted spare is more of a band-aid solution, than the ideal fix. Rear-mounted spares, while easy to access, block rear vision, and often contribute to expensive repairs if you should be rear-ended, even in minor collisions. Yeah, the other guy pays, but your SUV could be out of commission for a much longer period of time because of the extensive damage that's likely to occur. Just ask any insurance company what they think of outside spare tires.

    If it meant a tad more rear overhang to fit a full-size spare under the rear floor, so be it. I'd be more than willing to sacrifice a few degrees in the angle of departure (which is great to start with), to get a full-size spare.

    Bob
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I have the drivers seat all the way back in my Passat to provide enough leg room (although I can bring it forward a bit to provide more room for longer legged passengers in the rear seat) but I have ample head room and I don't have to lower the seat all the way down. BTW, I'm about equally split between leg length and body length. My father-in-law is an inch taller than me but is longer in the leg and shorter in the body than I am. When he stands up he is taller than I am but when he sits down, he is shorter.

    Back to the T-reg . . . I know that the offroad package for the T-reg has a full size spare as part of the package. That is the route I would like to go if I could afford it . . . V10 TDI w/ offroad package and all the bells and whistles, if only it wasn't so expensive :)
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    Maurcedes> I agree with what you are saying, seems like you have a good grasp on the situation in reference to diesel engines, the fuel situation and the environmental benefits. I don’t think there is a need for hybrid technology when diesel engines can fulfill all above, for instance using Bio-diesel will add no Green gases to the atmosphere because as the plant is used to make fuel the next crop traps the Carbon from the atmosphere at the end the balance is always zero. The VW Lupo is giving close to 80mpg in Europe and the VW prototype is giving 230mpg, theorically that two seater can go coast to coast on 10 gallons of fuel.

    http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_super_diesels_2/index.htm

    rsholland> Studies done in Europe concluded that spares tires are a big waste of resources and pollution in the act of making them and hauling around the extra weight because only a small fraction of the cars have a flat during the life of the tires, in fact they realized that most spare tires at the end of the life of a car are still unused but unsafe since the components have decayed, translated into numbers, millions of cars made with millions of spares tires unused, that is why the trend to skimpy tires, Mercedes has suggested to do away completely with the spares and offer a sophisticated fix a flat instead, in Europe that trend is starting already.

    You are making the argument that for off roading reasons VW should offer the full spare, I have a different view, I am a serious off roader and I am not talking about going to the nearest park or mud hole and play for a little while and then go home, I have a Unimog well prepared and I like to ship it to remote areas like the Yukon and do 1000 miles in a few weeks of absolute wilderness, I have done the same thing overseas in some very remote areas. When planning to go off the road and away from help it is the obligation of the driver to prepare accordingly, a spare or two tires and the means to fix flats, tools to fix most common mishaps, a winch and shackles and others to extricate yourself, extra fuel, flash lights, shovels etc and etc.

    I don’t want to kill the short overhang to haul a spare and more than departure angles is the towing aspects that is important to me because the closer the hitch is to the rear axle the less the trailer will sway. I have a ML and because of the short overhang it pulls a big offshore fishing boat better than my GMC pick up.

    Big guy> Thanks for answering, I was wondering if anybody needed all the leg room in the Passat, I am built like your father in law I have long legs and arms, at 6,3 I am a little taller than average but when I seat down I am shorter than most.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If you're talking about a waste of resources, then include all SUVs—not the just the spare tire. Thank you, but no, if I'm going to buy a legit off-roader, a full-size spare will be part of the equation, or I won't buy it. Those Europeans who did that study obviously never talked to people who go off-road.

    As to reducing the the angle of departure, take a look at the rear overhang of a Land Rover Disco. If you were to add a few inches rear overhang to the T-reg, in order to accomodate an under the floor full-size spare, I say do it. Most off-roaders will never notice the difference.

    And it not just for off-roading. I sure wouldn't want to tow anything, and have to rely on a temp spare tire. Sorry, no way will you convince me otherwise.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the T-reg—a lot, but not engineering to have a standard full-size spare was a big mistake.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The irony here is that all VW cars, except perhaps the Passat W8 (not sure about the Beetle) all come with full-size spares; yet their "truck" doesn't...

    Bob
  • aaa_edgar_poeaaa_edgar_poe Member Posts: 24
    California will require 5 PPM or less deisel fule by 1 Jan 2007 at ALL gas staions (right now ARCO is the only one that provides this low sulfer deisel fule in California -- shame on you Exon, Mobile, Shell and all the rest). This is at the European level and thus will enjoy off the gerat deisel technolgy out there since current sulfer levels would clog the injectors.

    Also, in california we will have cadilitic converters for diesel so it will be pretyy darn clean. Out here in California we have no problem with deisel as its implemented in Europe. THe probelm is it will take time to get all the refineries to convert to the 5 PPM or less sulfer content deisel fule. You see, guys, in Califoria in the LA basin, where I live, the air can become stagnet and a air inversion layer at times developes making the air even more stagnet. Yesterday it was so bad I had a sore throt and raw sinuses -- it was not fun and left Disney Land early because it felt so bad; I left about 7 PM.

    Naother big problem out here are the small engines like lawn mowers and Missouri is fighting that since a lawn mower engine manufacturer in Missouri lacks the factory space to implement cadilitic convers into thier production line (thanks Senitor BOnd from Missouri); just will keep me breathing harder and killing little children and causing cancer out here in the great LA basin of some 10 million poeple so as to aviod (and I do not believel it) the loss of 400 jobs in MIssouri.

    P.S. Looked at a T-reg yesterday at the dealership. SOme one commented on the bad design of the door rest for those above 5'11' and I totally agree -- what was VW thinking on this one; as far as I can tell the minimum height requirments for the SS was 6 feet (I can make fun of them on this since I am about 50%German).
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    the Touareg for most here is obviously 2nd hand...No Owners...The Touareg has not one, but two back ups in case of a flat off road/anywhere. The first is an on board air compressor and hose that permits reinflation of the tire...And if I was going way out in the bush I would certainly carry a couple cans of that flat tire goop. Second, the spare is a full size spare...Vredstein...You have to fill it full of air...it is not a space saver mini tire.
    It will take you up to 50MPH with no time limitations, only common sense dictates that.

    Now if I was going to design an SUV for the American market, where only 10% really go offroad...I would certainly design for the 10%,
    particularly because I am also building Porsche Cayennes with the same skeleton that will do 0-62MPH in 5.6 Seconds and reach a Max speed of 160MPH with the Twin Turbo...

    If you really want another full size tire on board...put it on the roof...it will only hold 220LBS.
  • spockcatspockcat Member Posts: 100
    QUOTE = P.S. Looked at a T-reg yesterday at the dealership. SOme one commented on the bad design of the door rest for those above 5'11' and I totally agree -- what was VW thinking on this one; as far as I can tell the minimum height requirments for the SS was 6 feet (I can make fun of them on this since I am about 50%German).

    "Door rest"? What is that?

    Incidentally, I think Edgar Allen Poe knew how to spell. ;)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I am hardly innocent of chat room posting sins -- I am not hereby claiming that I do it right all the time; but, edmunds provides for our use, a spell checker and the ability to post and edit our comments.

    I know that this correspondence is hardly earth shattering or likely to cause or cure much of anything. But it is cheap fun and recreation at times -- and, truth be told, I have learned from the various townhalls and audiworlds (etc.) that I read and in which I participate.

    So, I ask if it is possible to edit and spell check these postings -- SOme times they ARE TOO DIFFICULT TO WADE THROUGH WHEN THEY ARE IN CAPS (FOR THE WHOLE MESSAGE), contane missspellde wrdso and even vhae transpositions of characters.

    You all have many interesting and valuable perspectives and I learn a lot -- sometimes the message is lost when I have to wade through grammar, capitalization and spelling issues.

    I will do all in my power to check my tomes and request that we all try to use the Queen's English (so to speak) to greatest effect (or is it affect?)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sorry, no demerits for chat typos around here, and just wait a few years when phone texting reduces many words to single letters. R u redy for that?

    It is sort of nice having a mallable language. Especially since I may never learn how to spell "Touareg."

    St3v3, Host
  • aveghteaveghte Member Posts: 68
    This vehicle doesn't appear to lease very well based on the leases I have priced out on the VW.com web site.

    Should the leases become more attractive after the car has been out for a year?

    I am also curious to see how reliability is on this first-year model.

    On the road and in the showroom the Touareg appears to be very luxurious but I am not sure I want to pay $500 a month for 48 months and $3000 down for a V6 model with a $2300 Premium package and the $500 stereo upgrade.

    By the way, do the rear window sunshades cover the entire window (like the X5 rear climate control package)? That would be a very positive feature because I have a new baby in the family.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    2004 T-Reg V6&V8...(15K)54%/36, 52%/39, 51%/42, and 48%/48...
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