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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
People have different reasons to buy different vans, and it's not helpful to berate individuals for making a personal choice.
In other words, lighten up. They're just minivans.
Steve, Host
Dodge G/C
02 03
E E Engine
E E Cooling
AV E Fuel
E E Ignition
AB E Transmission
AB E Electrical
AB E A/C
AB E Suspension
AB E Brakes
E E Exaust
Ave AB Power Equip
E E Paint/trim/rust
AB AB Integrity
AB E Hardware
Honda Odyssey
02 03
E E Engine
E E Cooling
E E Fuel
E E Ignition
E E Transmission
AB E Electrical
E E A/C
E E Suspension
E E Brakes
E E Exhaust
AB E Power Equip
E E Paint/trim/rust
Av AB Integrity
AB E Hardware
Neither van posted below average in any catagory
Interesting. You criticize CR for being superficial, then state that you throw out the questionnaire each year because it is much too long. I would think a long questionnaire would give results the opposite of superficial. And you throw it out because it is too long? You seem to play both sides of the fence here.
I agree that CR is an excellent source, but not the only one. It pays to check several. BTW, if you don't like CR, what DO you like?
If, however, the car they happen to own or sell get's a bad rating, subscriptions get cancelled and the ratings are dismissed as meaningless.
Me, I happen to think that a lot of it is still subjective and a lot of it is pretty accurate.
Just another source of information for people to read and decide for themselves.
I do know, in the past, I've owned several cars on CR's list of cars to avoid that were just fine.
OK, I can see how you are separating the reviews from the questionnaire. But the reviews are accompanied by data, and the reliability part comes from the questionnaire.
Honda Ody won in C&D's 5 Best Trucks.Though the field nominated was fairly weak(i.e Buick Terraza,Chevy Uplander,Dodge Caravan...NOT the Grand or T&C,Pontiac Montana ,Saturn Relay and the Toyota Sienna.)
Holy smokes, that's more than fairly weak. Almost no one compares the Ody to that subset ... it is always Ody, Sienna, T&C and sometimes Quest. What a weird sorting they picked. BTW, was this rating for the 2005 Ody or 2004? Thanks.
Payoffs? Ah...don't think so! Sorry...
C & D June 2004 minivan comparo results:
1.) 2004 Ody(NOT 2005)
2.) 2004 Sienna
3.) 2004 Quest
4.) 2004 DGC SXT
5.) 2004 Freestar
The 2005 Ody would have increase its winning lead further.
EXCELLENT interpretation.
Dodge got 12 Excellents and two above average in 14 different categories.
Honda got 13 Excellents and one above average. I wouldn't call that WAY superior.
Reliability Verdicts
Ody: 1999 rated -(Average)
Ody: 2000 - 2004 rated _/(Above Average)
DGC/T & C: 1999 rated -(Average)
DGC/T & C: 2000 - 2003 rated X (Below Average)
Let the numbers from a large sampling speak for themselves. It is information like this and others(such as C & D, Edmunds, etc) that one can use to make their buying decisions.
I read of far more problems with the Odyssey transmissions than DC minivan transmissions here in the Town Hall by real people who own each. I am now afraid to buy a new Odyssey based on reading of the many problems reported in the Town Hall by people who have purchased an Odyssey. My nephew told me his new 2005 Ody EX has a "whistling noise" at speeds 35 MPH and faster.
Most of the complaints about DC are by former owners who may have had a valid complaint and were not satisfied by DC dealers. Most of these were people who wanted a Honda or Toyota minivan but found that neither provided a serious competitor to the Caravan/Voyager, Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager/Town & Country until the first Sienna appeared about 1997 and the current Odyssey appeared as a 1999 model.
Funny that none of the dozens of people I know who bought DC minivans have had any problems. Many are now repeat buyers based on complete satisfication with the Caravan/Voyager and later models from Chrysler which is now DaimlerChrysler.
The whistling noise problem is history - the fix is a simple one to the windshield cowl area. The transmission problem has been addressed by the recall - infact I would not be surprised if most of the owners affected were towing heavy trailers like a truck does and their vehicle was also not equipped with additional coolers for thr tranny, power steering, i.e. the trailer package.
One has to look at the bigger picture and certainly CR is a source of information as do Car & Driver, Edmunds, etc. I am sure that the numbers of owners CR received feedback from is far larger than the complainers we read in these forums and as such is a more statistically accurate report. Supplying that level of details/granularity of the actual numbers is not practical unless if it were for a PhD thesis and is not much interest to most readers.
I have sent him information gathered from the Town Hall stating the simple fix for the whistling noise and wonder why he has not responded.
Reliability Verdicts
Ody: 1999 rated -(Average)
Ody: 2000 - 2004 rated _/(Above Average)
DGC/T & C: 1999 rated -(Average)
DGC/T & C: 2000 - 2003 rated X (Below Average)
Let the numbers from a large sampling speak for themselves. It is information like this and others(such as C & D, Edmunds, etc) that one can use to make their buying decisions. <<
I just looked up on the Consumer Reports website (the most current data) and found some differing results than what you posted:
Honda is average (not above average) for 02, DC is average for 03 & 04 (not below average)
I can also report that the '05 DC models have the check mark for recommended next to them as well.
Maybe the whistling noise is preventing him from hearing the ding that tells him he has mail? (tic)
The whistling noise problem is history - the fix is a simple one to the windshield cowl area. The transmission problem has been addressed by the recall - infact I would not be surprised if most of the owners affected were towing heavy trailers like a truck does and their vehicle was also not equipped with additional coolers for thr tranny, power steering, i.e. the trailer package."
Hmmmmmmmmmm! Funny how one judges.
I must admit it is a very nice van. As vans go, I would say it's at the top of the heap as far as looks and has a lot of nice little extras that are not on my Dodge. Looks a lot more classy than my 05 Dodge G.C.too.
Comparing them is a lot like comparing a Caddy to a Buick. It seems like they are priced about the same as they compare a Buick to a Caddy.
While I liked the Odyssey a lot. I am not a bit sorry I bought the Dodge. With already having a car that is less than a year old, I am not interested in paying the thousands more to have a (Caddy)Especially with the features that I have on the Dodge G.C.
My big attraction to the Dodge was the stow and go seats and all the storage space. I never expected to get an AM radio, with both CD, cassette and six speakers with it too. The most I ever had in a car was four and either a cassette or CD. Then I find I have the radio controls on the steering wheel. Another feature I never had. Then the salesman points out the overhead console that not only gives me outside temp. and compass, but a computer that tells me how many MPG the van gets and how far I can go on a tank of gas. Heated outside mirrors, power drivers seat, three way A/C, power sliding doors and power rear hatch. Tire,low air warning light on the dash and power rear windows.
Later I discover Chrysler put a battery saver feature on the van so the battery won't go dead if I don't close the door tight and the over head lights stay on. It saved me from not being able to to pick up the wife two days after buying the van when the grand kids pushed them all on and I didn't notice it for awhile.
Like I say, I think the Honda looks a lot more classy. But with everything I have on this van, the smooth ride and the quietness it has, I feel like I have a Caddy, that I paid a Buick price for and got it with 0% financing. I am a very happy man.
Thought this was interesting and relevant to this thread in particular ... I assume everyone has seen the new Money magazine (arrived at our home yesterday) where the 2005 Ody is selected as the best VALUE in minivans? I think that says something. True, the "reviews" are very shallow and quick. But the selection as best value is based on a number of factors that combine features/reliability/safety with cost. Our view of the T&C was it might be a better value than an Ody assuming the price was much lower (and it was when we negotiated). But Money seems to indicate otherwise, at least in a general sense (because face it, Money isn't going to have greatly detailed car reviews).
CNN Money
Steve, Host
I will also be happy with what I bought and what I paid. As I said, the stow and go seating was really what I wanted for the way I wanted to use the van and all the goodies that came with it was like icing on the cake for me. If I tried getting many of them on a car, I would be paying many thousands more for them. And heck, it even rides like a car.
Actually, this appears to be different. The link goes to an article where the Ody is picked as the "best" minivan. The article in the new issue says "best value." And the link shows Money as picking the Tacoma in the truck category, while the new magazine we received picks the Ford F-150 (or whatever that is called). I assume the addition of looking at value changed the truck ranking, but it did not change the minivan ranking. That's what I find interesting, the value tag.
But value is different from reliability or performance, etc.
Maybe the new article will show up on CNN in a week or two, and I can rehash my link posting. :-
)
Steve, Host
The 01 Ody has more flexible 2nd row seating, the Magic Seat, and more comfortable seats while the 02 GC is quieter with a smoother ride and has separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger.
The 2005 Ody EX is a very nice vehicle and I like the 8 passenger capability plus the location of the spare tire better than the 2005 GC SXT...but the GC SXT has the complete overhead console. Otherwise, the 2 are very comparable.
If resale value is important, the Odyssey is the winner but for comfort and nice extra features the Grand Caravan wins.
I didn't want to pay out anymore than I had to because of the other new car we had to buy. And I wanted the stow and go seats and storage.
I was always hauling stuff in my Dakota C.C.,but never liked the idea that I couldn't carry more than the smallest stuff inside without it laying in the floor or seats. The truck always looked messy.
I liked my brother's Dodge van when I drove it. But several times I had to help him take the seats out to get stuff in it, when we were moving kids or family and they were really heavy and awkward to get out.
Then some makers came out with fold down seats that I liked, but that didn't take care of not having anyplace to hide stuff like you could in the trunk of a car. I might as well keep the truck. That is until Dodge came out with the stow and go seats. It gave me the best of two worlds. I had plenty of room to carry stuff and gobs of room to hide stuff so my van looked neat and clean all the time.
Then I find out I can stow just one seat, still have plenty of storage and plenty of room to get the three grand kids in and out of the van quickly and have plenty of room for the dog to lay down without him having to set on the seats. I was a happy man. The Dodge van met all my needs. I couldn't ask for anything more.
So I guess it boils down to what your going to use your van for and what you want to always carry in it. If it's mostly to carry people, it looks like the Honda would be the best choice. Great looking van with many features. It just didn't meet my needs. None of the others did either.
Why may I be in trouble? YES, I recommended the Odyssey EX as my recommended "first choice" in a new minivan when he started shopping last summer and now I drive a 2002 T&C LX.
They said the rear hatch needed adjusting. Which eliminated the noise.Didn't say anything about the roof rack.
He'd be disappointed with the mileage, if he drove faster than 60-65 mph. Driving at my normal speed of 75 mph I get no better than 22mpg in the Touring with VCM!
He, his wife, and children love their Odyssey even though the mileage was not as high as he had expected.
I would love to know the simple fix for the whistling noise before it drives me crazy.
Thanks for your help.
Does anyone know the name of a dealer who fixed this problem on a 2005 Odyssey EX? I would like to contact that dealer to find the details of the repair.
Maybe one of them would come forward. Or Steve, OUR HOST, can trace them.
Here's one example:
pdg, "Honda Odyssey 2005+" #3071, 6 Feb 2005 5:35 pm
I didn't run across the TSB number off-hand. Note that the roof rack may be the problem and not the cowl.
Maybe you (Merc4) should just call Honda USA and tell them the problem is well known on the forums but your dealer seems either clueless or intentionally unhelpful.
Steve, Host
I do not have the factory installed crossbars.
I'll give Honda USA a call.
My wife loves driving the Dodge but we're also attracted to the Odyssey Touring. Fold away seats in the Honda would be an advantage for sure. She'd love to have a sunroof. Also more airbags. KBB says the private party resale value for the Dodge is $15k and trade is $12.5k.
Should we keep the Dodge for a while longer or go for the Odyssey?
Your Dodge GC is barely broken in and also covered by an extended warranty, and your wife loves driving the car. So why feed money to a dealer for a new van other than that you have the new car itch?
All vehicles lose the most of their value in the first 3-5 years, then it tapers off much more slowly, so if you change now, you have basically maximized your out of pocket expenses for owning a vehicle.