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Comparable vans are priced around 16-ish...but most all of us who sell used vehicles in the classifieds play the game of pricing it 10 or 20 % over what you really want to get. Hard to tell what people are really getting versus what they were asking
I think I've pretty much decided that unless he goes to 14000, I'll just look for a venture. For $15000 I can get a (00 or maybe even 01) venture with half-or-less that many miles. My wife is attracted to the leather & "gadgets" on premier, but I really couldn't care less--as long as i have ac & cruise I'm good (although honestly power windows are darn handy--and we did see a couple ventures without 'em!)
In fact the "self-leveling" suspension feature on sil. worries me a bit, I've heard more than a couple horror stories over the years, of cars with that pneumatic suspension stuff (caddies, subarus, & others) where they start having problems with those compressors, valves, hoses & lines, and nobody can ever get the %@&%$ thing working right again.
So, the search continues! thanks for the input
As for the auto level feature, the air compressor in the back is nice especially for blowing up tires. I have never had to use the spare tire, but it always seems to be flat and having the compressor would be nice. I never had any problems with the air shocks on the '99 Montana. I did not pull anything with the van, but I think that the auto level would be nice for that.
We traded for '02 Montana. It is loaded and has the DVD/Montana Vision. This is awesome if you have young kids. Our 4 and 6 yr old don't fight in the van anymore. This van also has the auto level, so I'll post a message if I have any problems with it. The new van also has dual sliding doors, definitely a nice feature also.
Enjoy!
I think this guy took really meticulous care & maint of the van, and thinks that transfers to better resale $ (even w 66000 miles), which is true to a point--which is why I offered 14000 vs the 13 that edmunds said it was worth. regardless, I think thats water under the bridge.
I am definitely looking at getting a vhs or dvd in whatever I end up with, with 3 young kids it may save whats left of my sanity!
Re. the leveling shocks - I think I'm actually more concerned with that when a van gets up to 5 or 6 + yrs old--that's when those kind of things start wearing out & nobody can figure out how to get it fixed or rebuilt properly...people who only keep vehicles for a couple years probably won't have such worries. Not positive, but I seem to remember the "cartalk" guys saying one time to stay away from vehicles with leveling systems...
we're gonna look at a couple ventures this weekend. Maybe offer a lady around $13500 for a nice 99, low mile, loaded venture we saw last weekend. She wanted $15500 and said she "wasn't prepared to go below 'bluebook' at this point." I started to tell her "well, bb isn't REALLY what you're probably gonna get..." but it was hopeless-her van was in good shape and by golly it was worth bluebook! lol
I am getting psyched to get a van, though! I've had various subaru wagons, a couple SUV's, sport sedans, sports coupes, a couple motorcycles, etc., but never a van. despite the cliches about soccer moms & driving an emasculated vehicle, the darn things are big & tall & wide & roomy and you can get all the kids, dogs, junk & belongings in it, and that's what they're all about! and unlike say a suburban or exhibition - which i briefly considered - they don't get 10 mpg, which, even if i was a zillionaire, would just kill me!
Thanks!
Later.
but anyway, let me know - knowledge is power, & all that sort of thing - if I end up with van with a bit of warranty left, I'll be workin' hard to get whatever it is fixed for free!
thanks,
jm
The self-leveling is very nice I think, as with so much cargo capacity you may be empty one minute and full the next. Inflating stuff is also nice like soccer balls and tires. I don't think the system is very complicated. There's a sensor/computer for axle position, a compressor and some lines. It deflates and inflates all the time, even when I'm sitting on the back putting on cleats. Even my motherinlaw can sit in the rear and not sag the suspension! I specifically wanted a van with that option.
As for complexity, I'd be more concerned about paint, crash damage, engine/transmission shape, leather wear and tear, electrical problems etc. The Body control computer is amazingly complicated and the service book on things like power door operation flowcharts take pages and pages and pages to troubleshoot, so I'd be more careful of electical problems.
PS. my van was not a-1 condition (would not have made cut for dealer lot) but was very good and neighbors thought it was new, and I got it for $11k "as is". there were a few minor issues like outer tie rods, broken fog lights, a missing cover on the air compressor and some small wear on the seats, but we were going to use the pee out of it anyway, so price was good to me. And the thing drove like dream and was loaded with features.
As for reliability, read this forum and you'll find a cross section. Occassional lemon and most people by the same van again, except with the DVD player for kids - that seems tobe a constant thumbs up! Mine is only 1 so we have a ways to go before I'll need to worryabout that.
ps. I'd go EXT length, it drives about the same and you won't regret the extra room and its easy to park. REar passengers have legroom! Also go rear air for sure unless in cold climate.
we've definitely decided on extended - after our first look at a ventures several weeks ago, which was an ext and a non ext at a dealer, it was a no-brainer that we need extended
I guess if self-level system is pretty simple it would be alright--I think some of the ones that had bad problems in years past (subaru & cadillac come to mind) were needlessly strange and complex--computer controlled, multiple rubber air bladders and such
The van in NC is a little too far from southern colorado! lol
Any thought? Thanks in advance!
Rgds
Rgds
I did go to the Chevy site and put in a European Country and lists all the Chevy models available.
The Transport is available everywhere, except the UK..due to left hand drive. Only the Corvette and Trailblazer are available in the UK.
I wondered if the Chevrolet name in Europe as more "cache" than here..!
Rgds
I like my Chevy/Oldsmobile/Pontiac/Sintra very much. I have had it for four years now and I have had no problems apart from an early coolant leak on the water pump, fixed under warranty. It has done almost 50k miles. I particularly like the ride, the roadholding and the acceleration (201hp).It has an automatic gearbox and an auto levelling rear suspension as standard. I don't really know why they stopped making the Sintra, the official reason I read on the GM/Opel site is that the market in Europe was more in favor of smaller vans like the Opel/Vauxhall Zafira.(which they sell a lot, it is true) The German press said it was because of the rather poor crash tests results...They also made a Sintra with a 2.2l engine and a manual gearshift (my daughter has one, she lives in Luxembourg) and a diesel one. That's more than quintuplets now!
Rgds
Paul
Good luck, agree on the EXT. There isn't much disadvantage to the longer van, except maybe if you have tight parking and don't need the room.
ps. GM has used the rear self-leveling for years. My dad had a '88 pontiac 4 door with this feature, and it appears to be exactly the same underneath the car, and he's never had a lick of trouble with it. The same system has been used for many years by GM. I think it is not going to give you problems. The one thing I don't really care for is how bouncy the air shocks are, but the standard rear springs / shocks are really flabby and a worse option IMHO.
pss. Thanks for the transmission information. I have the cold 'hard' 1-2 upshift but don't think its really worth fixing such a small problem that clears up when it heats up.
DD
However, we drove our 00' Silo the other day under 80s weather with air conditioner on, there was no fuel fume when we got home, and there wasn't any hissing or much fuel odor when the gas cap was opened. Yes, our fuel filter is about under the driver.
probably could have got one from private party 1000 or so cheaper, but after a several week search, and close price comparisons with other dealers with similar with similar miles, also checked price here, msn, cars.com, others, the $17000 U.S. I paid is good. Not great, but I didn't get taken to cleaners. 6000 miles of factory warranty is a comfort definitely worth some $. Not a lot of private parties selling 'em in this area, other than with 50 - 75000 miles
So, I know there's a whole "thread" on van discussion re this, but anyone have an aftermarket dvd player? one that is elevated or in ceiling? that's the only accessory we are really looking at in near future. Any recommendations or cautions?
Also, I have no tow pkg., but might (next winter or spring) put receiver/hitch on for pop-up camper. I would want a trans. cooler, but what else does factory tow pkg have that standard doesn't? I'm concerned that mine is only rated for 2000 lbs, while factory pkg is 3500...is transmission identical, other than cooler? Or is it a heavier-duty tranny?
thanks for any input!
I hope to be on here someday, saying "100000 miles, trouble free!"
Has anybody had this problem, if so was it a dealer trip to fix
Thanks.
I nearly bought one of the those '01s for $17,000 but they couldn't get a color the wife wanted, White or Burgundy. I even found the 01's as cheap as $16,000 at Reynolds Buick in Covina California well equipped with 22,000 - 28,000 miles. All rental returns at that price of course.
Regarding the DVD player, check out the aftermarket and accy area. I think there is a message board about entertainment systems.
(But the Minivan Entertainment Systems thread is bigger.)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The GM vans are attractive for the current 02 pricing, driving range and equipment. Drivability, design and apparent quality seem to be Chrysler's strong points.
However, after reading many of the horror stories (especially of the tranies and power loss issues) of these new expensive vans, I am tempted to incur my wife's wrath and stay in my ole wagon.
I need encouragement. Thanks
Should I hold out on not paying or do you folks feel 1/2 is better than all of it?
The van has been great and we love it.
I was wondering whether any of the connections under the drivers seat have any bearing on the Air bag. I know some are for the power seat and seat belt, so will check all connections.
The dealer it would be worthwhile to hook it upto the computer as it will store what actually happened, so it can be evaluated.
Will post after the visit.
Chrysler have approx 50% market share, and if you combine the GM triplets numbers they are effectively second.
When Edmunds changed the format from type to manufacturer, you lost the ability to review all minivans under one heading. (Note !!!)
If I recall the troubles with Chrysler/Ford on engine and transmission problems were far greater than we have ever seen on GM. In fact they had separate file headings becuase there were so many.
GM transmissions are one of the most tried and tested. This unit is in other GM products as well
When I see these posts of problems, I often wonder what sort of maintenance has taken place etc.
No van design meets everyone's requirements, but in terms of versatility etc. Can handle 4 x 8, it is good value for money especially on 2002 on sale.
The new specs of the 2003 show virtually no distinguishable changes.
Good luck and keep us posted
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
thanks for info on towing pkg., I think I'll just put on a decent aftermarket trans cooler, take it easy when towing (these vans are not, after all, really built for towing), and I should be alright with my pop-up camper, which is well under 3000 lbs.
I test drove a Montana on Friday and an Odyssey on Monday. Both have strong and weak points.
Yes, the Odyssey has a weak point or two. The one that stood out was the dash. It looks and feels great, good materials etc., but the organization!
The gear shift blocks the blower and radio controls and other things looked to take some getting used to. In that respect the GM dash works much better. In respect to handling, with (50?) extra ponies and sharper suspension and steering, there's no comparison.
When merging onto a highway, the Montana couldn't get out of it's own way. I don't know if having the TC on affected that. On a secondary road the rebound of the rear springs bounded forward, josseling my head fore and aft (FE2 suspension). The other annoyance about the Montana was the ac fan. The loud drone gave me a headache and the front only ac could barely cool it down at mid day. (drove the Honda at night). That is a real negative (the noise and efficiency) to me. I am hopping that with the rear ac, the fan is quieter and more efficient.
To me the brakes on both are good. Space is about the same with better organization (that rear seat and sliding centers) for the Honda. Both are comfortable.
The new Odysseys are coming out of a new Alabama plant, so efficiency will take another year or so. J.D.Powers says efficiency=quality.
Current retail and future maintenance costs make me still want to look at the GMs more both new and used. But I will consider this Honda mini/S, new only.
Said they had had some Ventures with this symptom, however whether it was just a quirk related to the drivers side seat connections, but the warning light is acting properly.
We will hold to see if it stays on again after startup and go from there.
I also own a "highly rated" 00 Nissan Maxima SE, and while it is pretty good, the motor doesn't start very easily and the engine controller makes it surge on cruise control. We had a O2 sensor fail a few months after buying the car. Even the best rated cars have problems. Heck, a neighbor bought a slightly used low milage Lexus LS400 a few years ago, and right after he got it the front control arms needed to be replaced (???? {how does a car wear out a control arm? Bushings I can see, but not the metal arm}), followed shortly after that by the water pump. Luckily he had a used warrenty, but the point is that nearly all cars have problems and are a hassle. The ones I have heard of all type of cars that are super reliable even cavaliers, you never know. My father swears by his '88 3.8 Bonnevilles (if you can live with the alternator failures). Suggest you take some Prozac my friend.
The fellow comparing the Honda - others have found the seats, especially the rear seats to be marginally comfortable, the radio to be worthless, lots of road noise, the transmission seems to be trouble prone, many of these vehicles pull to the right and cant' be fixed (see Oddy board if you don't trust me), and the option packages are different, fuel milage is about 17-19 while GM vans can get 23-27 without really even trying very hard. But the Honda is a darn good van in its own right, but you also pay sticker or more typically and used ones are no bargin. Crash results in one type of offset crash test was significantly better in the Honda, but the head on crash in the GM vans was very good. They call the GM vans "death traps" and such but that is a gross exaggeration IMHO. Compared to other vehicles I've owned this the safest one so far, even has side air bags and anti-lock brakes, traction control, etc.
Cheers,
DD
I think my silo is pretty safe...like d.d., I've never really had a vehicle with airbags at all, so its all kinda relative
Good point about gas mileage, that 20+ mpg was a factor in my getting a g.m., too...I had actually briefly considered a full-size, V-8 van (better for towing), but after looking at the mpg--no way. And gm minivans seem to be better than almost all the other minivans...incl honda
I drove one honda in my van search, very impressed with power, handling (it didn't pull to right), seat layout, overall quality, but gosh, it was (I think) an '00 with about 25,000 miles and I could've just about got a new venture extended for the ungodly sum they were asking! I mean I just don't see what that much extra $ is getting you...
(ok now i feel like going into honda & toyota boards and givin' them a hard time - lol)
As the rebates were coming to a close for 02 GM vans, there were very few of them around. I did found a Silo GLS 25 mi away. However there was a Honda dealer nearby with scads of Odys at msrp and the temptation was overwhelming.
Why the remorse? Everything is HARD, the seats, the ride, and everything that you touch. It is still noisey. These things may ware on me as I age. The cost of a new vehicle in general also makes me remorseful!
I understood that fuel economy was in beteen a Dodge and GM, which so far is 20/21 country and short trip driving. The tranny can be annoying in it's striving for efficiency, but so far ok. There seem to be more niceties in our corolla than this van that cost twice as much.
The GM vans have a lot going for them (see the Edmunds comparo and how the reviewers were surprised at the delightful qualities). The rebates worked and cleaned out the lots.
Now I'll learn to love this van for it's build quality, get up and go and versitility like I did with my ole wagon, which I expect the next owner will drive another 100k miles. I will also get a GM credit card.
This has come on at 3,000 miles, which is when I have always changed my oil, even if the light has not come on. I do it my self using the PF 47 AC Delco filter.
After each oil change you have to re set the system by turning on the ignition and pressing the pedal three times within 5 seconds. I now manually move the throttle fulcrum under the hood to the stop to ensure it is correctly re set.
The overall driving conditions in the NE with stop/go traffic etc, really puts it in the hard driving condition section of the hand book.
Whether this all a marketing ploy by the oil companies as I believe in Europe the same models probably have a longer mileage allowance.
EXTENT THE COVERAGE on the vehicles like Honda and Toyota!
If you are listening GM, please help so we won't be forced to buy vehicles from the Rising Sun!
Hope this helps.
It is called Auto Air Condtioner Cleaner and Deodorizer. Claims to eliminate Bacteria, Mold, Mildew and Odors. About $4. made by ID Interdynamics in Brooklyn NY. Have web site www.id-usa.com.
Come as a pump spray, and may need one of those red pipe extentions that you get with WD-40.etc.
Dan
'01 Montanta