GM's triplets Venture, Silhouette, and Montana

tomekk · November 2003

When I was talking to the service advisor (Tom Chevy in Norwood, MA) he pointed to the parking lot filled with Ventures, Impalas, Malibus etc. and said I "all those cars with 3.4 and 3.1 sixes will have the leak, some sooner, some later", the he proceeded to tell me how he bought extended warranty for his Venture...

jeber · November 2003

re. gasket leak said to be "not a known issue" ?!?!?!

in the nhtsa website I referenced above in #611, there's a tsb for the gasket leak as well. I think that pretty much makes it a "known issue" right there...

I like my van a lot, and would lean towards getting another gm vehicle one of these days, but if they won't acknowledge that this is an obvious defect/design flaw on their part...well they very well could lose a customer (maybe forever) if mine starts leaking and they won't do anything for me whatsoever.

just4fun2 · November 2003

Ask your service advisor how many 3.1/3.4 engines have been produced by GM and how many (i.e; what exact number) have leaked? It is easy to make statements, backing them up with proof is different. Ask him for some figures and look at his facts.

jeber.. you need to read the whole TSB to find out what exactly they are referring to when it comes to intake manifold leaks. It could be that they have discontinued the RTV number and are now using a new supply number. I just found snipets of info about intake manifolds at #6ll post when I looked up 01 Silo. Maybe I am not looking where you are.

jeber · November 2003

this link, found via nhtsa page:

http://152.122.48.12/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/TSBs/2003/SB-100- 01282-8175.pdf

makes reference to leaking intake manifold gasket and says that replacement should be gasket of new material not as prone to leak (paraphrasing)...which tells me the original gaskets ARE problematic/prone to leakage. So, my 3.4 has a defective gasket. GM should take care of a new one if it leaks (within reason, mileage-wise)

as I've related here before, Nissan had a run of 3.0 v-6 blocks that were bored a little off, resulting in slight "piston-slap" on cold start...they did a silent recall and took care of a new engine, installed free of charge in a little over one day, no games or bs. I already liked nissan alot, and then liked 'em a lot more and wouldn't hesitate to buy another nissan product.

A simple lesson to be learned there...maybe someone at gm needs to go down to their community college and take a "Business 101" class!

dirkdaddy · November 2003

I was on vacation to Mexico recently, just saw the notes about the air shocks.

* You don't need the aircompressor kit, but the standard shocks don't have the air pressure capacity of the HiJackers. The kit alters the built in compressor limit to about 125psi if my memory serves. Unless you are loading your van to the max this may not be an issue. Otherwise as someone noted, you can splice into the existing lines and avoid the kit, but why not use the full capacity when you need it?

* Ride - as I noted before, one of my rear shocks was leaking and the other had not, both were very light in weight compared to the new shocks. My van also used to bounce more, and was so soft in the rear you just sat on the back to change shoes and it would sag and then compressor would kick in. The new shocks really reduce this by about 1/2. Handing is much improved for me.

* front struts - I found that when I hit large bumps like tonight, the rears are firmer in dampening than teh front, even with the new Gabereal gas struts, but its pretty balanced. I'd get the same type to match them as much as possible.

Good luck folks, hope that helps.

Dirkdaddy
'98 Olds GLS

n7don · November 2003

I installed the Gabriel's about 1 1/2 years ago. At that time there wasn't any info on changing the compressor output pressure. The Gabriel's have a different fitting at the shock. I bought them at CheckerAuto (part of PartsAmerica chain) however they now carry Monroe shocks. Autozone sells Gabriel HiJackers and list 49230 as the p/n for the Montana however Gabriel's site list 39230 as the correct p/n. Their site didn't even list a 49230.

Our 98 Montana has 93K miles and about every couple months I added about a cup of coolant to the overflow reservoir. In fact I could see where the coolant was "seeping". Not much but still visible. Reading the horror stories about catistrophic engine failures, I've monitored coolant level for several years. SOOOOOOOO I decided to tackle changing the lower intake manifold gasket replacement. Not a job for the faint of heart! I think every bolt, accessory, connector visible on the top side has to be removed or disconnected! The new gasket is installed using the new torque specs. I'm waiting for valve cover gaskets (not included in the gasket set). Some observations: specific leak area wasn't apparent. Very little corrosion. I was expecting more. I did change the "5 yr" Dexcool at 2 1/2 yrs and will continue that practice. Very little sludge/deposits in any of the oil areas. Probably in both valve areas less than 1/2 teaspoon. I've used Mobile 1 since 30K. Don't want to start a "discussion" on oils. For all I know any good grade of oil would have done the same if changed regularly.

infinia1 · November 2003

i have an 02 venture. does anyone know what the "little compartment" on the inside of the glove box door is for? it's right below the latch. thanks.

bcd99 · November 2003

It is for one of those small travel size tissue packs. They slip right in there and are held in when you dispense tissues.

jpc47 · November 2003

Has anyone had trouble with the rear latch not retracting properly? Also, the contols for the heat, the selection knob in particular, is not engaging, like the knob is stripped. I'm just hoping it's the knob, an easy replacement.

paulie9 · November 2003

Hey guys. Thanks for the info you posted on the Gabriel Hijackers. Last month when I took my Silo in to GM dealer to replace a defective front speaker and install power sliding door parts because of second recall they checked my car and found leaking rear air shocks. Estimate was about $425 to replace them. $150 for each shock x 2 plus $90 to install both and 27 for tax plus 8 for shop supplies????

Since Autozone sells the Gabriel Hijackers for 59.99 for both and Pepboys will install them for $50 to $60 I'll get this done by them after Xmas.

Thanks again for posting this valuable information!!!!!

paulie9 · November 2003

Couple of weeks ago I flushed and changed the antifreeze on my 2000 Silo. Before flushing, my temperature gauge would point to about the middle of the scale when my Silo was fully warmed up. Now it only goes just past the 1/4 line which is the second line up. Is this normal?

Was my Silo running hotter before the flush because of the old antifreeze or do I now have a thermostat that is stuck open????

Could you gents or ladies tell me where your pointer is pointing after your Silo is fully warmed up. Thanks for your help.....

BTW - I had a slow 5-10 drops antifreeze leak on garage floor each day. After flush I added a tube of Barrs Leaks (the powdery stuff) and the leak is now gone....

tomekk · November 2003

My 2000 Venture shows just over 1/4; but will go slightly over 1/2 in heavy stop & go traffic.
Has been like this from day 1.

redly_one · November 2003

I have a 93 Silhouette. I also happen to have a set of 16 in wheels from a 1990 Olds 88 Touring Sedan (same wheels they used on the Toronado Trofeo).

Anyone know if I could use these wheels on my van? Assuming I get the right size tires (205 60 16's).

lennx · November 2003

Have not had any problems with the hatch or rear heat knob here.

rags200 · November 2003

Just had Pontiac replace the lower intake gasket on my 2000 Pontiac Montana. Only 34,000 miles on it. Out of warranty in April of 03.
They also found globs of goo in the radiator. They said it was from the air reacting whit the dex-cool coolant. Had to have the radiator flushed.
The total came out to $890.00. The repair Tech said that I should replace the dex-cool every 20,000 miles not the 100,000 miles GM claims. I would get 30,000 on the green stuff.

indrgb · November 2003

My temp gauge has always run cool, about the 1/4 mark. The heat has never worked great either. I'm going to have the coolant flushed and the t'stat replaced before the end of the year. I can change the t'stat in my car in about 5 minutes. Changing the one in the van looks like it would be a nightmare.

n7don · November 2003

On the 98 Montana it appears only one sensor is used for both engine control and coolant temperature gauge. With an obd-2 scan tool I've checked the output of the sensor and it shows close to 200F (thermostat is 197F) when the gauge is showing just above 1/4. The sensor was within a couple degrees of 210 at the midpoint.

just4fun2 · November 2003

You really have an OBD II Scan tool? How much did you pay and where did you get it?

Thanks

n7don · November 2003

Check out www.obd-2.com. It works with my laptop so I can monitor & record engine parameters on the road. Can't change anything but I can clear trouble codes. I have just one protocol that works with GM vehicles.

rmorin2 · November 2003

I am trying to decide if there is are good reasons other than styling to buy a specific brand of the GM Minivans. I tend to like the styling of the Montana but have read more good posts about Chevy service. Anyone have any advice? Thanks. What about model years? Any big improvements in 2002 vs 2000 and 2001? Again, Thanks.

artgpo · November 2003

The temperature gauge on my 2003 Silhouette usually hangs around the 1/3-1/2 mark. When the weather here is cooler it will be closer to 1/3. In heavy stop and go traffic w/o the a/c being on, it will go beyond half until the fan comes on and cools it off. On a hot summer Dallas day with the a/c on, the gauge will be pegged at 1/2.

n7don · November 2003

Update. I tighten the upper shock mounts to specs (62 ft-lbs) and seems to have cured the noise problem reported earlier.

lennx · November 2003

Choosing oone van over the other came down to option packages for us. We like the Pontiac better but the option packages made it too expensive.

The Chevy option packages gave us what we wanted without adding anything extra to drive the price up.

As for which dealer is better - that is s local thing. It sounds like you have done this and the Chevy dealers are better.

Of course you can bring your Pontiac to Chevy dealer. After the first couple of visits, we opted to bring our Venture to a Pontiac dealer. Some dealers do not like this but others prefer to take my money for service and GM's mony for warranty work.

offham · November 2003

Re previous post, went with Goodyear Weather Handler at Sears. On sale saving over a $100 on all four. Total cost $325 including balance, disposal etc. Set pressure at 34 lbs. Great ride compared to Symmetry.

Kirstie_H · November 2003

Town Hall Members are invited by GM to a Live WebCast announcing the 2005 Buick Terraza and Saturn RELAY!

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GM Crossover Sport Vans (CSVs) Virtual Launch 2005 Buick Terraza and Saturn RELAY CSVs.

GM LEADERSHIP SCHEDULED TO SPEAK:
Bob Lutz, vice chairman, Product Development and chairman GM North America
Roger Adams, general manager, Buick
Jill Lajdziak, vice president, Saturn Sales, Service and Marketing
Tom Kowaleski, vice president, GM North America Communications

Buick Terraza is the third entry into Buicks truck portfolio. Terraza will complement Rendezvous and Rainier by delivering another premium, refined experience that blends the best qualities of Buick sedans with the utility that todays marketplace demands. Terraza will compete at the upper end of the segment and continue the trend started with Rendezvous. Terraza was selected after consumers said the name has a luxurious, yet rugged image and conveyed a strong vehicle with comfort features.

Saturn RELAY is a flexible people carrier with interior appointments reflecting the direction of future Saturn vehicles, which will help continue to grow the brand by attracting a new group of customers. It will also help Saturn meet the needs of existing Saturn owners with growing families and active lifestyles. The name RELAY, associated with motion and movement, conveys the vehicles ability to connect people and their destinations.

jascott129 · November 2003

I have a 99 Venture with 76k on it. The airbag light will usually stay on once started. This problem happened long ago and the dealer said there was a loose connection to the driver seat airbag. I believe it might be the same problem as the seat position seems to have something to do with it. I have verified all the cables under the seat are securly connected.

If this is the problem, is the entire system disabled, or just that airbag?

Thanks,
Jim

mpcollins · December 2003

I hope someone can help with this problem. Here's the brief history on my 2002 Montana Thunder:
Dec '02 replace LR wheel speed sensor
Jan '03 replace RF wheel speed sensor
July '03 replace LF wheel speed sensor
Sept '03 wiring/connector repair
Nov '03 re-connected LF wheel speed sensor
We had our first dusting of snow this weekend in Toronto and the AWD/ABS light came on again just as I got on the highway!!! As in the past, slush/water seems to make the warning light go off when there's a problem.
Having bought the vehicle for its AWD feature (and especially since the ABS feature doesn't work when the AWD is disabled), I can't go on like this (my wife drives the kids daily, the family skiis in the winter and we don't know when the systems will kick out next). Any suggestions, etc. would be appreciated (other than the obvious, which is to buy the new Sienna w/ AWD!).
Thanks.

just4fun2 · December 2003

Sorry, I can't help with you problems. I have never seen a Thunder around here, does it have turn indicators in the outside mirrors? Thanks.

jeber · December 2003

sorry to hear that, but the first thing that comes to mind is "lemon laws"

these vary from state to state, certainly Canada, but basically if they can't fix a given problem/defect after x number of tries, they (manufacturer) might be legally required to buy back the van

although you've probably already considered this, I thought I'd mention it anyway!

montanafan · December 2003

Seen this problem on a couple AWDs serviced at a local tire shop where I get work done. GM has new wheel bearing part number that seams to have cured the AWD ABS light problem. Take your receipts back to the dealer and have them check the numbers installed against the TSB new numbers. Should be same in Canada as US.

cptplt · December 2003

dunno about the AWD on GM cars but on Subarus (of which I have had 4) if the tires are more than 1/4 inch difference in circumference the AWD system can detect this and you can get problems.
just something to think about if the hardware seems ok on the AWD/ABS.
have almost 1/2 million miles on Subaru AWD and never had any drivetrain problems with them.

as for the famous leaking coolant, when I called my Chevy dealer to ask why there was a little puddle of coolant on the garage floor under our Venture, he knew what the problem was right away. So its definitely a well recognized problem, by some dealers anyway!

rmorin2 · December 2003

I just bought a 2000 Venture WB with 45K on the clock. Dealer is providing a 12 month drive train warranty. What would you recommend as far as the intake manifold gasket problem? No sign of leaking so far. Is GM providing any help if it does leak? Anything else I should be concerned about? Thanks.

offham · December 2003

Have this problem from time to time and found the cure is to move the drivers seat foward. There are various wire connections underneath.Get hold of the two halves of the connection and just wiggle them and push in, eventhough may not be out. Do same on passenger side.

Move seat back to normal position and when re start (mine flashes 7 times then goes out).

Re start the van. Should cure if not it is somewhere else.

Also found if you open the passenger power operated door when engine running, then close the airbag light stays on, but will go out after a few seconds but does not flash.

dirkwork · December 2003

To get the warrenty on a used van, for me, it depends on the price of the warrenty. True, a lot of gaskets are failing. But not all of them. And many people report that fixing them costs about $700-900 depending on your shop. Besides the coolant leak, you might have trouble with some little things like a power window or the battery, but basically these are reliable vans. Is this used car warrenty as beefy in coverage or deductable as a new one? I'd bet there more items excluded and possible higher deductible.

The Fords, Honda, Chrysler/Dodge all seem to have worse problems, so I think you'll do ok. I'm guessing here but I think from what I've read on the boards is that Honda is fixing its problems, which honestly is more than I can say for GM's refusal to admit that millions of their vehicles with the 3.4 have a coolant leak problem.

GM also has by far the best fuel milage.

DirkDaddy

jeber · December 2003

even if I end up shelling out ~ $700 for that gasket fix someday, I still will be way ahead of the game, dollar-wise, over getting a toy or honda van...

interesting, in the "return of gm's might" thread, the gm minivans are (once again) getting raked over the coals for design, not being completely redesigned, looks, narrowness, side-impact crash tests, 3.4 V-6 problems, etc. etc. that's the perception by many people of these vans... *sigh* -- one factor that is huge with millions of people who are on a bit of a budget is, these vans are a darn good value, especially compared to the toys & hondas...I like the looks of my silo, I won't go so far as to call it a a "beautiful automobile" but I like it fine. Narrowness...that's a big plus for me! I can get both cars in the garage easily, and it makes it more easy to maneuver! Crash tests...been over that here before, in a "real world" crash, tests show these vans are quite safe. Oh well, perception is reality for most...I did a lot of homework and have not regretted my purchase one bit.

lilblessings · December 2003

I said it 4.5 years ago and I'll say it again, I love our venture, 99 with 90,000 miles on it. I did just have to get the intake gasket fixed although I have been loosing coolant for 2 years. But while they were in there I had them change thermostat, replace head gaskets, intake gaskets, some other gasket, change sparkplugs, oil and do a complete coolant flushing for $928 this is the only major thing ever gone wrong with the van. Yes I have the power sdteering problem, airbag light, the rattling roof rack, the bad rear washer, the hatch handle and the overhead themometer way off but I still enjoy driving it and will really miss is when we trade it next summer.

I also find it funny that under the list of van topics every other van has a topic dedicated to problems including a 2004 toy. None of the GMs have this. That tells you something right there.

Don

psg · December 2003

At 70,000 miles, I did some maintenance and replaced the shocks and brakes. Shortly afterwards, the transmission started slipping. After some expensive transmission work (close to $1000.00), it was determined that the transmission needs to be replaced. Okay, it happens. Since I can buy a boxed transmission from GM at cost (employee purchase program), I decided to bite the bullet and fix the van. However, before I could pickup the transmission, it started to make a lifter noise. The sound was loud enough to make conversation difficult. On the way to the dealer the noise stopped and they could find nothing wrong. The noise has come and gone twice since then, never lasting long enough to get it to a mechanic. Since we did not replace the transmission, and we now seem to have impending engine problems (besides the coolant issue), Ive decided to trade it in. With the GM employee purchase plan, incentives, and the trade on the Montana, I could have been in a 2003 Venture for about $10,000 out of pocket. I also own a 2003 Silverado. Hey, I'm a GM fan. My father-in-law is retired from GM. But my truck just spent the day at the dealer for warranty work.

Last night, we put a deposit down on a 2004 Honda Odyssey. It is going to cost me more money for the Honda versus the Venture. However, we typically like to keep a vehicle for more then four years and I think we will come out ahead with the Honda in the long run. We also have a 95 Subaru Legacy, 100,000 miles and still going strong. By the way, my father-in-law traded in his Cadillac for a Lincoln. I was stunned by his decision but I guess I'm following his lead.

Phil

just4fun2 · December 2003

How much will the Ody be out of pocket?

jeber · December 2003

well psg, awful sorry to hear those type of experiences! gosh, its a bad omen when retired gm employees are buying lincolns! I like my van but I'm certainly not "brand loyal" to anything...I've had great gm's, chrysler, subarus, fords, nissan & toyota...at this point in time, we need a van, and the olds is sure workin' good so far

lilblessings: wow, that's a heckuva deal! was that mechanic or dealer. I seem to remember a guy I knew 2 or 3 years ago had just headgaskets on a V-6 (Accord, or Accura not sure) for like, $1200...without ANY of that other stuff! amazing

page2171 · December 2003

Hello, I'm rather new here. I have started looking for a minivan to replace my wife's '94 Sable. I am looking at the GM triplets and am requesting some advice. I am also looking at other models, such as the Grand Caravan and others. I would like to keep the price under $17K, so I'm definitely looking for at used models. Thanks!

dindak · December 2003

Transmission was a fluke, GM makes them better than Honda. Sounds like a lemon.

$$ through the nose for a Honda. Not worth it.

gmowner · December 2003

I finally traded in my 2001 olds silo after owning it for 1.5 years, it did reached 48K still in one piece. There are several reasons why I didn't keep this van..
  1. Build quality was horrible, I have cloth seats and the plastics on the side just keep on breaking off from their screws. Plastic screws on the moldings and wheels wheels started to disappear.
  2. The instrument cluster surfaces tend to get warmer (other cars I owned normally isn't)
  3. AC doesn't blow cold air during summer, no hot air during winter (have to go to the dealership everytime the season changes)
  4. Tires don't last very long, am suspecting that the rear air leveling suspension is causing the rear tires to cup sooner.
  5. Squeaks and rattles that GM technicians can't fix.
  6. Noisy idle, could here the AC compressor vibrating (my 6 yr old high mileage car is very quite)
  7. Coolant leak, radiator hoses and thermostat problem (worst cooling system..see the temp gauge go up to the 3/4 mark and then down to 1/2) I wonder if they're putting in low quality hoses in this luxury minivan!!
  8. Front cup holder falls of from the assembly if a large size cup is used. A 3rd grader must have designed this.
  9. I don't think this van will last long, traded it while it still has value.
10. GM Goodwrench technicians were the worst I've met even in 5 star dealerships. They tend to replace the whole system instead of trying to really fix the problem. This is an issue when the warranty is over. I'm assuming they'll save time this way (anyway you'll end up paying)

  What I like with this van...
  1. Ride quality is excellent, very quite and the engine/transmission is better than the odessy in terms of torque. I've test driven other makes and this van ranks #1.
  2. More options for the price.
  3. Gas mileage is par with V6 cars.

Will I recommend this van, NO!!!

lennx · December 2003

I have a Venture and would recommend it. Ride is good, gas mileage is 22 to 24, and 8 passenger seating means no one is left behind.

We have had a couple of problems that the local dealer has fixed (I do not go to the dealer where I bought it). Reliability is crap shoot. My old Toyota Camry had a less than stellar record.

Like all vans, these have their quirks and trouble spots. Take all of the differnt vans out for a ride. I think you'll find nearly every other van will excel in some area over the Venture and its siblings.

However, when my wife and I did this, we found that the Venture was competent in most things and was much less expensive.

Good luck.

artgpo · December 2003

I own an '03 Silhouette. I believe the GM vans, for the most part, represent an excellent value for the dollar. The performance and handling are excellent. The vans have excellent standard safety features only to be negated by the dismal IIHS offset frontal barrier crash test. My Olds, GM's present top of the line minivan, has lots of rattles coming from the doors,but the ride is quiet.

I do not know how this van will endure over the long haul. I am coming up on 22,000 miles which have been trouble free. A major down side is that these vans have VERY poor trade-in value, especially my Olds since there will be no more Olds after the 2004 model year. A 2003 Honda mini, costing about $26,000 new will be worth about $18,000-20,000 in trade after three years while I'll be happy with $10,000 on a van which cost $29,000+.

Overall: I am satisfied with the van. Would I buy another GM van in the future? Probably.

kkollwitz · December 2003

Our 99 Venture went about 75k miles before we had to fix anything, at which point we had the gasket, the power steering pump, and the alternator replaced. For nearly 4 years all we did was replace tires, brake pads, oil and filters.
We will probably get another GM minivan when we are ready for a change.

infinia1 · December 2003

i don't think you can go wrong with buying a used venture. last january, i bought my 02 venture ls with 15,000 miles gm certified used for only $17,000. i have warranty untill 39,000 miles. i feel i got an excellent deal. the only major thing that has gone wrong is that the ac compressor broke but was covered under warranty. we enjoy the room and value the van offers. for us, it was an easy, excellent choice.

just4fun2 · December 2003

I own a 2002 Olds Silhouette with 35K on it so far an it has been the perfect vehicle. Oil changes only. I like the smooth ride and the very comfortable seats(heated). It is 32 degrees here today when I was out and the van had heat in 2 miles of driving. Heat and air work great. On a trip this summer, I got 30 mpg with air on and at 65 mph.

You will always have people who get bad ones in anything, mine is just great.

Good Luck!

jeber · December 2003

being discussed here sometimes! I have the same van as gmowner above, a little over 50000 miles now, with none of those problems other than some of the plastic fasteners have come out(holding on plastic on back of rear seats and holding on bottom side panel on body, passenger side only) ...inexpensive and easy to replace those, but they (fasteners) are definitely not well designed or good quality. Otherwise, heat/air & cooling system are good & quiet (we have temps ranging from over 100 F in summer to below zero winter), idles fine, cupholders good, tires wearing well, few rattles/squeaks, etc.

I guess this does not speak well of consistency with these minivans, which is very important with any product--whether a widget or a meal in a restaurant or a vehicle...

psg · December 2003

Up until about 6 months ago and now it has more problems then I can keep track of. It's very disappointing. I didn't expect our Montana to become a money pit after only 4 years. Not to mention wasted time and aggravation. Until now I had thought GM had a perception problem. I've read lots of sad tales here but now it is happening to me. Hey, this is only my experience. Without any statistics who knows? I hope you have better luck. Once bitten, twice shy. I'm done with GM minivans.

The Honda dealers I negotiated with are dealing. I believe Toyota has got them running scared. I'll post a price once the deal is done. Right now they are supposed to be locating the van I want. I have enough car buying experience to know it's not a deal until the ink is dry.

Phil

just4fun2 · December 2003

I remember when I started coming to this site 2 years ago. The Honda Ody was the darling of the mini vans, now I see that after these vans get some miles on them they are having problems also. Now, Honda is stepping up and replacing the transmission that fail, but I also see that some people are having to have as many as 3 transmissions put in before they get one that works. Even those replacements are failing again and again.

I am not knocking Honda or anyone's van, I just think that there are more GM mini's out there than Honda's Ody. More time to have problems and more miles driven could account for something.

Yes, I know that if you problems happen in 4 years and 60K it will make you want to look elsewhere. However, I am listening to the people who have owned Honda's cars before and now own the Ody, say, it's not the same quality as before.

For the last year the MPV owners have been gloating about how good their vans are, now that they have some miles on them the problems are raising their ugly little heads. Not so confident about their purchases now.

GM's triplets Venture, Silhouette, and Montana

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