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GM's triplets Venture, Silhouette, and Montana

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Comments

  • hhua1hhua1 Posts: 41
    The tapping noises can be heard clearly from the engine area. Yes it is about the same time the compressor for the rear shocks kick in. The compressor can be heard from the rear and it is much quieter.

    I will search for the TSB 57-61-24A mentioned by n7don. The question is, your seems to coming back in about 55K miles. Is it wise for us to wait another year or so before the warranty goes out and have the dealer fix it. Assuming there is no real harm but only the nuisance tapping noises.

    By the way, can someone please tell me how to search for this TSB 57-61-24A? Hold on, I think I found them through google search...they seems old, but I will start from there.

    Thanks!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,561
    TSB summary info is available here (The Edmunds Maintenance Guide).

    Alldata has full text, but you have to buy a subscription, unless your local library subscribes. Sometimes the NHTSA has full text too.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • hhua1hhua1 Posts: 41
    Thanks Steve...

    I found this though the google search. It is from http://cincinnatistreetracing.com/community/viewthread.php?tid=23- 55&page=1#pid160798 posted by "Toyota 4x4". Hope it is useful...Thanks!

    =======================

    COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER AFTER START-UP #57-61-24A - (06/11/1998)
    REVISION: 06/11/98 DIVS INVL 1 2 3 4 7

    THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO EXPAND THE MODEL YEAR COVERAGE, AND TO ADD THE U-VAN, THE 3400 V6 ENGINE APPLICATIONS AND PARTS INFORMATION. ALSO, THE CAUSE STATEMENT HAS BEEN CHANGED. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-61-24 (SECTION 6-ENGINE). _________________________________________________________________- _____

    SUBJECT: COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER START-UP (REPLACE PISTON/PIN ASSEMBLY)

    MODELS: 1994-95 BUICK REGAL 1994-97 BUICK SKYLARK 1994-98 BUICK CENTURY 1994-95 CHEVROLET BERETTA, CORSICA, LUMINA, MONTE CARLO 1996-98 CHEVROLET VENTURE 1997-98 CHEVROLET MALIBU 1993-97 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME 1994-96 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 1994-97 OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA 1997-98 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS 1996-98 OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND AM 1996-98 PONTIAC TRANS SPORT WITH 3100 OR 3400 V6 ENGINE (VINS M, E - RPOS L82, LA1)

    CONDITION:

    SOME CUSTOMERS MAY COMMENT ON A TICKING TYPE NOISE THAT BEGINS SHORTLY AFTER COLD ENGINE START-UP AND GRADUALLY DIMINISHES AS THE ENGINE WARMS UP. IN MOST CASES, THE NOISE IS GONE AFTER FIVE (5) MINUTES. IN SEVERE CASES, THE NOISE MAY NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN THE ENGINE IS HOT.

    CAUSE:

    UNDER NORMAL DESIGN TOLERANCES WHEN THE PISTON PIN BORE IS PRODUCED AT THE MAXIMUM TOLERANCE AND THE PISTON PIN IS PRODUCED AT THE MINIMUM TOLERANCE (MIN-MAX TOLERANCE) TRACE NOISE LEVELS CAN OCCUR. THIS LEVEL OF NOISE DOES NOT AFFECT THE RELIABILITY OR DURABILITY OF THE PRODUCT.

    CORRECTION:

    IF PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE IS DETECTED AND THE CUSTOMER DESIRES THE CONDITION TO BE CORRECTED, REPLACE ALL SIX PISTONS WITH PIN ASSEMBLIES. THE NEW PISTON SETS HAVE A MINIMAL PISTON-TO-PIN CLEARANCE. REMEMBER, PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE OCCURS IN BOTH PARK AND DRIVE AT ENGINE IDLE RPM AND IT VARIES IN INTENSITY DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PISTONS INVOLVED. A TICKING SOUND MEANS ONE PISTON IS AFFECTED WHEREAS A RATTLE OR DIESEL TYPE SOUND INDICATES MORE THAN ONE PISTON AFFECTED. THE FOLLOWING SHOULD ALSO BE CHECKED:

    1) ON W-CARS, MAKE SURE THE RIGHT SIDE ENGINE SPLASH SHIELD IS NOT CONTACTING THE ENGINE CRANKSHAFT BALANCER. THIS CONDITION USUALLY HAPPENS COLD AND IS CAUSED BY THE SHIELD CURLING WHEN COLD.

    2) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-71-06 FOR TRANSMISSION RATTLE NOISE OFTEN CONFUSED FOR ENGINE RATTLE NOISE.

    3) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 47-61-36 FOR ACCESSORY DRIVE BELT TENSIONER NOISE.

    4) CHECK CYLINDER BORE DIAMETER AND PISTON DIAMETER AS OUTLINED IN THE SERVICE MANUAL.

    IMPORTANT: EXCESSIVE CYLINDER BORE TO PISTON DIAMETER CLEARANCE CAN CAUSE A SIMILAR TYPE NOISE.

    USE THE PROCEDURE IN THE APPROPRIATE SERVICE MANUAL FOR PISTON REPLACEMENT.

    NOTICE: WHEN INSTALLING THE NEW PISTON AND PIN ASSEMBLY ONTO THE EXISTING RODS, USE EXTREME CARE TO AVOID DAMAGE TO EITHER THE PIN OR PISTON BORE. IF DAMAGE TO THESE AREAS OCCURS, THE NOISE WILL RETURN BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WILL CAUSE WEAR AND EXCESSIVE CLEARANCE.

    PARTS INFORMATION:

    DESCRIPTION P/N QTY APPLICATION ----------- --- --- -----------

    PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24505806 6 94-95 3100

    PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508726 6 96-98 3100

    PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508727 6 96-98 3400

    PARTS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.

    WARRANTY INFORMATION:

    FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:

    LABOR OPERATION LABOR OPERATION NUMBER DESCRIPTION TIME ---------------- ----------- ---------------

    J1307 PISTON, ROD AND/OR RINGS USE PUBLISHED LABOR OPERATION TIME

    FIGURES: 0 ATTACHMENTS: 0

    GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.
  • kolt1kolt1 Posts: 25
    I currently own a ’91 Chevy Lumina APV with 138,000+ miles on the odo. Within the next 8-10 months I will probably purchase a new vehicle (I enjoy researching and test drives). Besides other GM vehicles, I have owned Fords, Chryslers, Mazdas, Subarus, and Hyundais. I have to admit that if I were to buy today, it probably would be a Mazda MPV (although they have had issues with a transmission hard shift between 2-3).

    Since the reliability of GM vehicles is one of the topics discussed here, I thought I would share my experience with my APV.

    I purchased the van in 10/91 from a Chevy dealer. I bought it through GM’s ‘Purchase Plan’ (GM sold it to a rental company then bought it from them and sold it at auction to one of their dealers). Total cost of the vehicle, including TTL, was $14,841.00. It had a little over 13,000 miles on it when I drove it home and the remainder of the 36mo/3yr. warranty. It had very few options (A/C, privacy glass, AM/FM cassette, roof rack, premium sound system). I firmly believe in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The more options you have, the more problems you’ll have.

    When the van had a little over 50,000 miles on the odo, it left my family (wife and 3 sons) and I stranded on the final leg of a vacation trip to Myrtle Beach. About 100 miles from our destination, the van started ‘bucking’, almost like it was going to stall. When we were about 3 blocks from our hotel, it died. A faulty ignition coil wire was the culprit. The cost to fix it was less than $300.00 (including towing). Even though that may sound reasonable, I felt it was a bit ‘salty’. I had a feeling that it was going to be ‘expensive’ when I walked into the Myrtle Beach Chevy dealership’s customer waiting room and saw GQ Magazine on the table. I have to admit that the dealership diagnosed the problem immediately and fixed it promptly (2-3 hours). BTW, the vacation was probably one of our best (after the fix, of course).

    Other fixes:
    Rear Brake Cylinder 60,000+ miles
    Alternator 99,000+ miles
    Frt. Rotors Turned 99,000+ miles
    Water Pump 109,000+miles
    Replace Radiator 122,000+miles
    Brake Hoses Various mileage (these were detected by my mechanic during various annual inspections)
    Replace Headliner 138,000+miles

    The total cost for all of the above fixes, including the ignition coil wire, was $1,100.00, +/- a few dollars.

    Maintenance Schedule:
    Oil + Filter Every 3,000 miles (religiously with Gastrol 5W –30 and AC Delco filters)
    Trans. Fluid Every 30,000 miles
    Air Filter Every 30,000 miles
    PCV Valve Every 30,000 miles
    Cooling System Flush
    and Refill Every 30,000 miles

    As you can see, I’ve had ‘some’ problems, but nothing out of the ordinary (okay, it did leave us stranded in
    Myrtle Beach, but it was only 3 blocks from the hotel and I forgave it for that years ago). If I could buy a new
    vehicle today and be guaranteed the same reliability as my APV, I would buy it in a 'heartbeat’ (remember the old
    Chevy commercials?)
    Now some of you may be asking why am I in the market for a new vehicle. One word, cautious. As my van gets closer to 150,000 miles, I am becoming very cautious. My wife and I frequently take the van on 400+ mile trips throughout the year, and she is deathly afraid of being stranded ‘again’ (she’s not as forgiving as me). But as you can see from the documentation above, GM has done alright by me. In fact, I would have to say that my van of plastic has been ‘fantastic’! As a matter of fact, I believe all of the Big Three have made enormous strides in product reliability. And if and when I do have to say goodbye to the ‘magic bus’, I will definitely have a tear in my eye.
  • jeberjeber Posts: 91
    that's good to hear!

    fwiw, we regularly do some fairly long road trips, and over the years I've seen, other than the usual "junkers," quite a variety of cars sitting beside the highway--not remains of accidents, but cars that obviously have died & been abandoned (perhaps, occasionally people get pulled over & arrested, I guess, but safe to say usually an abandoned car is dead). Believe me, I've noted quite a variety of brands, sometimes quite new looking.

    I was zooming down a mountain road in spring 2002 and a distressed looking lady was standing by her car with the hood up...since I knew cellphone service was really spotty here, I stopped--turned out her 02 Audi A-8 was dead as a doornail. Had only a couple thousand miles on it. Had a very odd burned smell (?)

    Point is, anything can leave you stranded, even a new car that costs like, 50 Grand!

    (O.T., No service on her or my cellphone so, I ended up giving this lady (immaculately dressed in about $2000 worth of clothes) a ride to town in my muddy pathfinder, after rearranging fishing gear, muddy mountain bike, assorted junk, and muddy dog! lol a bit of culture shock for her, I think--she was nice enough although furious about the audi.
  • n7donn7don Posts: 188
    "I will search for the TSB 57-61-24A mentioned by n7don. The question is, your seems to coming back in about 55K miles. Is it wise for us to wait another year or so before the warranty goes out and have the dealer fix it. Assuming there is no real harm but only the nuisance tapping noises"
    I don't want to gloss over what I had to go through to get the pistons replaced. Even though the TSB clearly states "IF PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE IS DETECTED AND THE CUSTOMER DESIRES THE CONDITION TO BE CORRECTED, REPLACE ALL SIX PISTONS WITH PIN ASSEMBLIES", the local GM rep wouldn't approve letting the dealership replace the pistons per the TSB. I won't go into all the details of the pushups done but I finally called the Pontiac customer service number in the owners manual. Didn't get nasty but just told them I was ashamed for my neighbors to be around when I started the thing. I got approval to take go to another area dealership (note serviced by the same GM rep!!). When I got to the new dealership, the service manager knew I was coming and had all the details... and seemingly had the OK to make the decision whether to fix or not. He was well aware of the problem and they made the decision whether to fix or not based on level of cold start noise. Like you I was concerned about pulling the engine but I've had no problem with anything related to the engine repair. My vehicle is a 98 Montana. If yours is still under warranty you might get your 'oar in the water' to see what the response is. Does it affect long term durability?? I don't know. GM says no. The problem described in the TSB relates to the whole family of 60deg. V-6 engines,e.i. 3.1-3.4L and I haven't found there has been wide-spread failures traced to this condition. At 93K miles my engine's oil consumption is nil between 4000 mile oil changes. Not to fuel the great oil discussion on dyno vs syn. I've used Mobile 1 since the engine was rebuild.
  • rmorin2rmorin2 Posts: 110
    Just purchased a 2000 Venture WB Edition. How many headphones are supposed to come with the vehicle? Can you operate a video game using the system in the van? What about the seating arrangement? Van has 3 individual seats in the 2nd row and 2 in the third. Will floor mats designed to fit the standard Ventures work with this setup? Vehicle has no mats so I need to get a set. Thanks.
  • hhua1hhua1 Posts: 41
    Thanks n7don, I will keep monitor the noise and will have the dealer takes a look at it again next time I have to bring the van in for any service...As far as I can tell, my van doesn't consume much oil either, I use 10w30 convetional oil, and change oil between 3000 to 4000 miles.
  • lennxlennx Posts: 73
    I have noticed mine reads a bit less than 1% high.

    As for the tire question, does the manual say you can put that smaller size tire on?
  • catamcatam Posts: 331
    You stated your odo is less thatn 2% off with your tires at end of life. That 2% is the difference in your tires circumference from new to end of life (eol). The factory calibrates the odo with new tires.
    For example lets say your tire diameter when new is 22.5 inches, and now at EOL your tread is 1/4 inch shorter than when new giving you a new diameter of 22 inches, (1/4 inch comes off all around so you count it twice when measuring diameter.) In this example the new tire would have a circumference of about 70.68 inches, whereas the used tire has a circumference of 69.12 inches. That make the new tires circumference 2.225% larger.
    I have not heard of anyone putting larger tires on these vans, nor would I recommend it.
  • catamcatam Posts: 331
    My passenger side power door on my 01 Venture occasionally does what yours does. I have not found any cure of cause. It seems quite random, although I have noticed I can tell something different in the sound of the door when this happens, and I just hit the button again twice to reverse the door and close it again. Please let me know if you find a fix.
  • Catam - Thanks for your input, but the tires are not the problem causing the the odometer to read about 2% high.

    I bought this Silo 2000 about 3 months ago and the tire thread is like almost new and the pressure is at 34 to 35 PSI. The problem is that the last owner did not do a alignment and badly wore the inner edges of both front tires. Using two "straight" 8 foot 2x4's I was able to determine a 1/4 inch toe-out which I reset to 1/16" toe-in.
  • I bought my 2000 Silo back in September and also had strange problems with the power sliding door like described in previous posts such as the door reopenning after closing it and mostly a beep-beep-beep.... sound when putting the trans shifter into drive, drove me nuts.

    A month later I took my Silo in t0o dealer to replace a dead door speaker and had them check for any outstanding recalls. They said that there were "TWO" recalls for the power sliding door and that my Silo had only the first one done to it. Since they had the time they installed the second recall fix free of charge and I have not had a problem since then.
  • dirkworkdirkwork Posts: 210
    Hmm...

    I know I have an outstanding recall on the power door, but get this, the Chevy dealer wouldn't work on it and said I had to take it to the Olds dealer, 20 miles away, a major pain. I argued "what will happen when Olds goes away, GM is supposed to repair those vehicles at all GM dealers" but the service man wouldn't budge. Of course this endeared me to "Strickland Chevrolet in Pearland Texas". I will be sure and not send any business their way any time soon, besides the AC charge it was in for.

    RE: Front end alignment with 2x4's - You really are a shade tree Mech! That might work for your worn tires, but please take it in for a real alignment before you put good tires on it. It will make a big difference in wear over the long haul. Also check tie-rod ends for wear, my outer ones were shot on my '98 when I got it used.
  • What? You want me to take my Silo in for a professional alignment??? Some time ago I went to Fireestone and the another time to Gooodyear, both of these places did front end alignments and caused my steering wheel to be off center. In both cases I took the car back and they the did the alignment again with the same results with the steering wheel 10 to 15 degrees off center. Both times I was told that because of worn components in the front end that they would never be able to center the steering wheel. Thats when I learned how to do toe-in and toe-out adjustments myself and centering the steering wheel was a piece of cake. Since I can't use my 2x4's to diagnose caster and camber problems, I don't mess with them.

    BTW - Both times when I was told that I had worn front end parts I took my Silo in to a diagnostic center and was told front end parts were slightly worn but good for a considerable amount of time.

    BTW - How do you check your tie rods? I wiggle by front tires side to side and up and down and there was no play either way. So I guess my tie rods are OK?
  • baveuxbaveux Posts: 175
    Describe your alignement procedure with a 2 x 4 i'm curious ;-)
  • offhamoffham Posts: 344
    When doing the alignment, the rear wheels have to be done as well, not just the front.

    I would take van to a proper alignment shop and get them to ensure all four wheels are done.
  • The following link will tell you how it's done with straight pins and 2x4's which is very similar to how I do it just with 2x4's.

    http://www.allpar.com/fix/alignment.html

    Before you guys ridicule me I want to let you know that I was able to center my steering wheel and make the Silo drive straight on the interstate instead of wandering all over place.

    When I get new tires I will get a professional alignment done...
  • dirkworkdirkwork Posts: 210
    I just grabbed the tires when it was jacked up (but maybe you can do this on the ground if you've got decent arm strength). I tried to move them as to turn left, then right, and there was about a 1/8" "play" at the rim edge and you could feel it. Getting under the car (jackstands) and having someone wiggle it I could see the loose play was in the tie rod end (outer). They were cake to install, but you needed to alighn afterwards.

    I've also installed my own struts (what a pain, not recommended!) and thus had the van aligned twice at NTB. Both times they did a good job. If your local roads are heavily crowned, it may be hard to get the alignment so that a straight steering wheel = straight on the road, but otherwise it should be simple. The Mech does need to make sure the steering wheel is straight before doing their thing. I've seen (and had to take back b/c of) a guy just hack the wheel sort of straight from the ground when it was on the lift, and of course that was the position it was in when going down the road.

    My van with Michelin tires (even at 60k + on them) tracks straight and doesn't require corrections -- unless the wind is blowing which is another problem!

    Having seen the front end components and adjustments on toe, I understand much of the front end alignment marketing seems to infer you need a computer system to do it, but that's not the case. I think the more automated systems just allow using more unskilled labor. Your system sounds like it you have it either right on or close. I just wondered about 2x4's vs using a more reliable straight edge.

    The tall profile tires on the vans also help to mask a slight alignment problem I'd guess. Tires can make a van wander, one used one I drove had what appeared to be the PepBoys 4 tires for $150 specials on it, and it scared me even with its inability to handle turns even at 35 mph through a neighborhood's curving roads, and didn't track worth a darn. Good tires will make a huge difference.

    Yea, after all this verbage, my advice is:

    1. complain or get a different shop to do it,
    2. get a warrenty on the alignment like NTB
    3. consider replacing the worn parts, it might be cheap
    4. some shops will "check" alignment w/o charge if its w/in spec, this could be what you need.

    Dirk
  • Is Dirkwork and Dirkdaddy one and the same person?

    The reason my Silo was tracking all over the interstate was because it had a 1/4" front-end toe-out. Once I adjusted to 1/16" toe-in my van tracked fine.

    My tie rods seem OK because I was not able to budge the tires when moving them side to side or up and down when front end was jacked up.

    Thanks again for your help....
  • dirkworkdirkwork Posts: 210
    Some people go smoke on work breaks, I will pull up Edmonds!

    Glad you're not having any issues. Not sure why my outer rod ends went bad at 65k miles, sure seemed early to me. I'm just glad the inner ones were ok, you can't get to them easily.

    My latest perceived problem is that the power steering effort seems to vary, like the rack is going bad, as it takes more effort to get through certain parts of the turn than others. PS fluid is ok for level and quality. Doesn't make noises, but it disconcerting.

    I'm getting the wife one of those plug-in vacs for the van, maybe I get her to keep it a little cleaner?? Just a hope! I had better put my name on the box as well, lest it be received poorly...

    Happy Holidays!
    D
  • Funny that you mention the power steering. Compared to the 1998 Town and Country I traded in, the steering on my Silo is harder or more truck like. Also, when doing minor adjustments to change in direction or gradual curves, I notice that steering sort of gets "stuck" and needs a little extra effort to move the steering wheel. Have you noticed something similar???

    Is this normal for the Silo? Does this indicate a problem?

    Anyone else have any comments???
  • I feel that way too in my 2001 Olds. I test drove a ford expedition, explorer and a grand caravan and definitely say that the steering requires more effort on the Silo. BTW most SUVs on the market now have very light steering, they're more car-like than truck-like.

    About that parts issue with Silos, would you believe that the seatbelts were not compatible with Venture and Montana. The seatbelts on my mine won't retract at 32K and need to have it replaced, took the dealership more than a week to find one. Reason for taking a long time...the seatbelt has different mount points if you have rear air. I won't believe the dealership but that's what they told me. Most of the repairs for the AC were not also done on time because of parts not readily available. I pretty much used up my GMPP for rentals, glad I purchased it. When GM is no longer making the Silos where will you get the parts? Based on my experience I wouldn't trust whatever GM say..
  • dirkworkdirkwork Posts: 210
    I'm thinking my steering sensation where I hit increased resistance in some parts of the turn maybe something to do with the Struts/springs dealing with the bottom part turning. I'm not going to worry about it.

    Not great news on the Olds parts issues, but most of the parts are the same on the van as the others.
  • baveuxbaveux Posts: 175
    I'll try it as soon as this stupid winter goes away !
  • Well I am new to this chat but have read a whole bunch of the comments about GM Triplets vans. I have had 2 bad experiences so far with these vans. My first van is a 98 Transport--has 72,000 miles. So far had intake manifold gasket issue ($900), power sliding door issue-warranty several times, headliner leaks-warranty, front headlight lamps leaking in water-some under warranty some not, had transmission slippage, now back at dealer no heat after they repaired the intake manifold gasket and still losing coolant So you see this list goes on and on.

    My second van is 2000 Venture. 57000 miles. Nothing that major yet but fuel pump went out--had to have towed in, engine has the loud knock at cold start--dealer says this is acceptable noise. I think not. Sounds like a diesel when I start up. Had exhaust shields repaired. Fortunately I bought the 6 year-75,000 mile GM warranty. Most items have been covered. But what happens when that warranty runs out. I'm stuck just like a lot of others.

    Don't think I'll be buying another one of these. I would only be recommending these triplet vans to my worst enemy.
  • What did General Motors Headquarters say about the problems? I believe there is a TBS about engine knock when starting a cold engine. Your problems might be aggravated by the dealer you are using. Try another dealer, some are better than others.
  • Thanks for the input. I told the Chevy dealer about the TSB and of course they first denied it. Then they said the TSB issued did not cover my engine. Then they said they checked for the knock and it was within specs. One lie after another. I find it hard to believe GM anymore on service issues. You may be right though it could be the dealer I am using. I may try another one close by.
  • setzersetzer Posts: 127
    I have 4 dogs, and I like the GM vans because the rear seats can be removed. At a local dealer there is a 1998 Oldsmobile Silhouette with aprox. 63,000 miles. It's either a GL or GLS and the dealer is selling it for around $8,000. Should I buy it?
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