Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Vibe/ Matrix v. PT Cruiser v. ZX5 v. Protege5 v. Elantra GT v. Aerio SX
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
During a long drive I mess with the adjustments to change positions without moving the seat to and from. This helps comfort, and makes the trip go faster.
http://www.focaljet.com/
I wish I had two big dogs....
I like the Cruiser much better. It doesn't look like a bad photocopy of my car, nor is a Toyota underneath. PT made in in America, and every one still catches my eye every time I see it. The reasons I did not get one are fuel mileage, price, and heft. Cornering ability was way high on my list, if comfort was tops, this would be the car...
They liked the Jetta and Matrix twins the most, but thought the driving position in the Matrix and Vibe was not good at all. The Focus handled best, but guess what, far below average relibility kept it off recommendation. The Pro5 was too noisy and rough riding for them, and the Subaru had issues too...
My neighbor sells auto parts for a major dealer in our area and he talked to the service men at VW and NONE of them will own one. Same issue, electrical problems and in the shop a lot....maybe not now......
But hey, if you like the car buy it. Just get the extented warrenty. :-)
1. Ford Focus ZX5 -- decent looking car that apparently handles very well, with the added bonus of an SVT 170 hp version in 2003. Unfortunately, the Focus has had a host of reliability problems, and I even saw a piece on TV last night about melting parts under the hood. As someone looking to buy and keep this vehicle for 8-10 years, I pass.
2. Hyundai Elantra GT -- great value and a great warranty for an improving product. However, I am not ready to be a Hyundai man, nor will I buy a Daewoo, a Kia, or a Suzuki.
3. Pontiac Vibe -- Toyota reliability with Pontiac styling equals GM's best small car. However, I can't see paying more for a Pontiac with less residual value and a lesser warranty.
4. Toyota Matrix -- the economy of a Corolla combined with a sportier stance and more useful cabin make for one intriguing vehicle. I really want to want this car, but as Car & Driver wrote, I "couldn't find love for it." Its looks, beyond eccentric, strike my tastes as odd. My head keeps telling me that I should like this car, but every time I look at it, my gut objects.
5. Chrysler PT Cruiser -- unique retro looks combined with cargo capacity and affordability make this vehicle a strong contender. This is the vehicle that I wish I didn't want, as my head tells me that it's risky to gamble on 8-10 years from a Chrylser product. And these concerns received some confirmation this week, as Chrysler recalled all 2001 and 2002 models for some fuel pump modifications. But despite every objection from my head, this vehicle is the one which most speaks to my gut. It is definitely one of my finalists.
6. Mazda Protege5 -- perhaps the best compromise vehicle in the bunch for what I'm seeking. While it may not be as distinctive as the Cruiser, it has a sporty look that I admire. And while it may not have the reputation of a Toyota, it is a well-constructed vehicle still made in Japan. Basically, it offers a driving experience recommended by Car & Driver as well as a reliability record recommended by Consumer Reports. And while it doesn't speak to my gut like the Cruiser, it is a car that I think I could grow to love.
Ultimately, the Matrix, Cruiser, and P5 look like my 3 finalists with the Matrix a distant third at this point. My final decision will probably come down to which dealership will provide me with the best value and which manufacturer is offering the best incentives when I'm ready to make a move. Thoughts?
Pat
If "style" enters at all into the equation, that's subjective, but that's where the Cruiser shines. The Mazda is nice, too. I'm pretty ambivalent about the Vibe/Matrix twins, even driving standard and "hot" versions. Same with the Ford. I like the Focus, just wish I could have been more certain of them getting all the "kinks" out of it.
Best of luck, I have 9K on my ZX5 with no major issues or RECALLS!!
"NHTSA Upgraded Ford Focus Fire Probe
August 16, 2002
Page 1 of 1
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on its Web site that it upgraded its investigation into reports of engine compartment fires in Ford Focus cars.
NHTSA opened the investigation in March after receiving seven complaints of engine compartment fires near the battery. NHTSA said it has since had two more complaints, and Ford reported 61 similar complaints and 286 warranty claims relating to fire, scorched parts or a burning odor."
I always use the comparison of the two to illustrate how far cars (even economy cars) have come in the 90's.
Yes, do call me a Hyundai man. If being a Hyundai man means a person who test drove the competition and found the Hyundai to be the best in price, features, with a very good ride and quality. That would be me :-)
Y
Focus #1 in owner loyalty even with the recalls, #1 for the past 2 years and leading half way thru this year.
Polk.com
Autonews.com
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=40458
"Comparing the 2002 and 2001 models, the Focus improved 17 percent in problems per 100 vehicles after three months in service, according to the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study.
The Focus falls "just slightly below" the industry average of 133 problems per 100 vehicles, J.D. Power said."
improvements for the 2003 Focus
better interior materials, a 2Db decrease in road noise, Traction control, heated Seats and mirrors. and the new 2.3l PZEV Focus.
Fixing the Focus
What: Squeak, rattle complaints
Change: 42% reduction in complaints for 2002 model versus 2001 model
How: New tool more accurately gauges torque when installing nuts, bolts or fasteners
What: Wind and cabin noise
Change: 18% reduction in complaints 2002 vs. 2001 model
How: Thicker cabin carpet, more sound deadening under floorpan and engine firewall, new door handle seals, use of ultrasonic air leakage transmitter on every vehicle, new air leakage test
official Recall history.
Recalls
2000 model year
Recalls: 7
Units: 834,317
2001 model year
Recalls: 3
Units: 20,073
2002 model year
Recalls: 1
Units: 569
The BMW X5 has had 11 recalls Where are all the people complaining about it's quality?
The Focus is #1 in reliabilty in germany there is no reason it shouldn't be the same way here.
You are right. Maybe building them in Mexico wasn't such a hot idea.
I'd be curious to see defect brake downs by the U.S. made Focuses versus the Mexican made ones.
My experience with multiple VWs tells me that it's not the first time a difference has been seen between Mexican and European production.
Of course if you're Ford, you've got to hope the market is willing to pay more for more in this class. I don't know how much the average buyer on the street is willing to pay for a compact Ford, no matter how nice.
By the way, and I say this with trepidation, you're the sane one of the bunch over in the Protege topics. Nice to find someone who likes the Pro/Pro5 and hasn't gone insane like some others. Just nice to be able to talk cars with someone.
back on topic. When does the GT Cruiser come out?
Oh, also, the Focus will be available in the 2003 model year with a PZEV (special low fuel emmissions model if I remember correctly) with the 2.3 duratec 4 cylinder. Now I know that it makes more power than the 2.0 (especially torque) but will probably be tuned a little "soft" for emissions purposes. However, I imagine that it would only be a chip and exhaust away from some surprising power. Might surprise some. I'm curious to hear more details about this version.
I guess if we wait a year we'll be fighting on the same side, but for now lets keep the flames high. :-)
Suspension was beefed up and they put 17" wheel/tire combos. Steering is still a bit light for my tastes, but it doesn't detract from the entire package. Instead of the Cruiser being a very nice, uniquely styled car, wagon, mini-van, mini-SUV, whatever you want to call it. It's now a bonafied screamer. Tough combination to beat for the price.
The down side is that most dealers are asking over MSRP. It took me two hard days of negotiation to get mine under MSRP. MPG isn't great. I'm getting about 20-21MPG in mixed driving. It isn't broken in yet, though.
Very nice piece all-in-all.
Still like the P5 as the runner-up however because good deals that can be had (well under MSRP).
by seminole_kev
http://www.motortrend.com/mar02/matrix/matrix_f.html
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
P.J.Heff
I only test drove the P5 and sat in the PT on the lot.
I thought the P5 was noisy and rough and storage space small and the PT I thought was cramped inside.
That and the poor front crash test rating put me off the PT.
I owned a ZX3 for three years and was happy to unload it for a Hyundai GT hatchback. The GT has
lots of room and is perky with leather and power everything and for your situation, a ten year warrenty!
I paid list for an '03. Best deal I ever made.
I urge you to test drive one at least.
This is a nice car and a great value.
I agree that the GT is probably better than either of these--certainly for the money, but that fact will probably have little bearing on the great majority of potential buyers who would never, ever purchase a Korean car no matter what.
Of the two cars mentioned, I'd pick the P5 if I didn't need the space. I think it would be the more pleasant car to live with day in and day out.
for the current PT crash test results.
The PT Cruiser is now a 4 star rating for the driver (it was 2 star for the 2001 model) and remains 4 star or 5 star for the other seating positions and roll over.
Where do you find the PT cramped inside? I'm bigger than average and there is plenty of room for four of me. Everyone that rides in it comments on how big it is inside.
I do agree the Hyundai GT is as you describe, a better dollar bargain and a nice car too.
I actually like the style and love the colors.
Thanks for the update on the crash ratings.
Frank
It may not be to everyone's liking, but I'd urge you to take a look. 2002s are still available with $1-$2k off dealer invoice and $0 down 0% for 60 months. You should check it out. I wrote a complete review of my first week with the car over at the Suzuki Aerio forum.
All thru that particular article they went on and on about rear seat room and comfort, then they rated the Mazda number 1 for being most fun to drive, even though they called the ride hard and harsh, and the rear seat uncomfortable. Basically, the only cars that will ever be highly rated by them are sports cars, which are only suited to about 5% of the buying public, if sales figures can be trusted to tell the story...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If the P5 had a little more space, I would definitely have given it a long look. Are they doing a MazdaSpeed wagon? I picked up a large washing machine in the Suzuki on Sunday, in it's packing case. No problems sliding it right in. My wife and I were able to get it out easily, too.
As long as it keeps working, I have no issue with it. The "slash in the dash" that C&D referred to is what strikes me as odd looking. But I applaud the fact that it is different from everything else on the road - carmakers are way too conformist in their thinking.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You can now get a supercharger for the vibe and I assume toyota will be offering soon also. The low end low rpm torque will be welcome.
First off, let me say that I'm a longtime P5 owner (since June 2001), so my remarks may be biased. I still love this car!
If you are really interested in keeping the car 7-10 years, I would say take the Mazda. The 323/Protege is a tried and true platform. I've owned several Chrysler products over the years, and although I started out with this same "keep forever" philosophy, I have, without fail, gotten rid of these cars "before their time". I doubt I'll own another in the near future. That said, I have heard that Chryslers have improved lately; and in Canada warranty coverage has improved to 7yr/100,000km (I don't know if this applies in the States).
I also concur with the Hyundai Elantra GT supporters; the value is hard to beat. At the time I was buying, it was really the only competition for a hatch (no Honda Si, Matrix/Vibe, or MB-C230 yet; too many issues with Focus/Golf at that time). I just valued "fun to drive" more than "great value for the money"; YMMV.
I paid around $13,000 total (tax, license, etc.) for an Elantra hatchback, auto, moon/sun roof., leather seats. Here's my 2 cents.
I like driving the elantra better...better visability, seat is more comfortable, smaller turning radius.
It's easier to set the elantra up for cargo than the PT.
The only things the PT has that the elantra doesn't have is a compass, ABS (i could have ordered this on a 2003), a cargo net in the trunk.
I lke the cd/audio system in the elantra much better.
I noticed in the PT that if I went on 2-3 hour trips my legs would get a cramp. I haven't gone on 2-3 hour trips in the elantra yet, but the seat feels nore confortable.
The elantra gets better mileage.
BTW, I looked at and drove the Suzuki Aerio before looking at the elantra. The Suzuki drove well and was a little noisier than the elantra. The interior of the elantra looks much nicer than the Aerio.
My 2 cents!
ME - "The glue around my front and rear windows is melting and running down the sides of my car."
THEM - "Sir, that's just age. Your car is 7 years old, that happens."
ME - "I defy you to find any car other than a Chrysler with this problem! Chrysler used faulty glue and acknowledged it in their TSB."
THEM - "If you had brought it in before your warranty expired we wopuld have fixed it."
ME - "It wasn't a problem!"
THEM - "I'm sorry sir."
Honda, Toyota, Mazda the big three.
Ford, GM, Cry-sler the pig three.
I'll take mileage, relaibility, and quality over patriotism any day of the week.
PT and ZX3/ZX5...it's your money.
The LE w/abs, traction and heated leather seats (a must) is about $20K including rebate, tax and delivery. My dealer is taking $200 over the total invoice.
I'm buying one right now!
Jay
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)