Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

mrblonde49 · April 2005

People are shows a convenience for a product in which other factors are more important (safety, reliability, performance), are told it is convenient, and all of a sudden they start buy the same van they shunned before? That's marketing. <<

I'm not sure exactly what you meant, something was missing in the sentence.

I guess DC will now market their great crash test scores, to answer any safety doubters.

Most of what is sold today is based on marketing.

jipster · April 2005

It would be interesting to know how much DC has spent on advertising of its minivans this year as opposed to last year..pre stow-n-go.(I'd guesstimate it being double) As well as how much fleet sales, versus indiviual consumer sales, are responsible for the large sales increase. Anyone have any numbers on this?

About the only minivans I ever see advertised(t.v/magazines) are the Honda Ody and the Dodge Caravans.Nissan Quest rare. Kia Sedona only on the radio(constantly it seems). G.M's minis...rare.Toyota Sienna...a few magazines...never on t.v. Mazda MPV...never.

Right now it may be that Chrysler isn't selling the steak...it's selling the sizzle. This time next year we will have the answer.

marine2 · April 2005

I find it quite interesting that so many Honda owners are trying to put down Chrysler vans as being so inferior to Honda's and Toyotas. While I admit they look better inside and have new engines and transmissions, that doesn't mean older is worse. Honda, with the new engine and tranny is still only less than a second faster than the Dodge in the quarter mile and only gets one -two miles mpg better in gas mileage. Doesn't quite justify the millions spent to develop them.

While the Honda has a new body on it, it's not quieter nor does it run smoother than the Dodge. Nor does the air conditioning run colder. The Dodge has a much better sound system in it and doesn't rattle like the Honda. The Dodge is also not plagued by doors that won't close as many of the Honda's are.

So even though you Honda owners would like to believe your van is the greatest thing since apple pie, it just isn't so. Even though you see a lot more people complaining about Chrysler made vans, you must remember that there are millions more of them on the road than Honda's or Toyotas. If honda had sold as many as Chrysler, I would guarantee you would see a lot more people complain about Hondas. There are enough people complaining about them now, and they are brand new.

ivan_99 · April 2005

Chrysler does have a newer engine. The 3.5L in the Pacifica...I'm just not sure why they don't put in in the Dodge/TC.

The 3.5L V6 and the 5speed from the 300C (MB tranny) would make it much more "drive train" competitive...although the price may go up (probably).

hansienna · April 2005

Only 4076 Sedona's sold in March 2005 and only 11,616 YTD and even fewer Mazda MPV (1452) sold in March and 4513 YTD...How can they afford to advertise with so few vehicles sold?
Meanwhile there were 24,753 Caravan sold in March and 57,665 YTD with T&C selling more than either the Odyssey or Sienna. (16,262 T&C March and 43,849 YTD).
DC minivans are INCREASING sales in 2005 while the Sedona, MPV, and Sienna sales are DECREASING for both the month of March 2005 and YTD 2005.
Fortunately for Honda, the Odyssey sales have increased for both the month of March 2005 and YTD even though more T&C were sold in March 2005 than Odyssey.

jipster · April 2005

Remember that Mazda commercial that ran a couple months ago. Aired several times during the Super Bowl. A couple guys in white lab coats from Nissan, Honda and Toyota standing in a Mazda showroom full of people asking," What do they have that we don't have? "The reply,"The Mazda Tribute, the Mazda RX-8, and the Mazda 3...and they also don't have...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOOM"(the Mazda theme tune)
Mazda could have easily shown the MPV. Maybe, having it full of the New England Patriot cheerleaders or something....waving their pom poms and singing the Zoom Zoom song. I don't think I knew the MPV even existed until I started my minivan search. People can't buy it if they don't know it's out there.They may be saving their advertising dollars for the Mazda 5 and the new Mazda MPV if and when it comes out.

kfdmed · April 2005

Stow N Go is great. I have 3 1/2 and 1 1/2 year old girls. I dont understand why some think its an issue removing the car seats to stow the seats. It takes 10 seconds to remove or replace the car seat. The 3 1/2 year is in a booster that is not secured to the seat so that takes 2 seconds. Would I rather leave the car seats attached to the seat and remove the seats entirely? Hell no! My back hurts just thinking about it .... and where do you put the seats? My garage is jam packed. Stow n Go is GREAT!

minivanguy · April 2005

Is the 230hp engine still there??? :surprise:

mrblonde49 · April 2005

The MPV has been around since the late 80's, hasn't it? People don't know it's out there? :confuse:

jipster · April 2005

In the late 80's and early 90's the MPV was in SUV form Mr. Blonde. I'm assuming people don't know much about the MPV because you rarely see them advertised. Maybe the image Mazda tries to create with their Zoom Zoom/sporty car campaign doesn't coincide well with people who are looking for minivans. The move towards bigger minivans hasn't helped their sales either. In my biased opinion it is an excellent minivan at a very good price.

denver5357 · April 2005

I was one of the people who had the Chrysler T&C among my final two vans before selecting the Honda Ody, for various reasons.

I agree that the older and proven DC/T&C engine/design has fewer bugs at this point than the brand new model Honda Ody. That's logical.

The real test will be in five years, when one considers 1) reliability and 2) resale value.

denver5357 · April 2005

"I dont understand why some think its an issue removing the car seats to stow the seats. It takes 10 seconds to remove or replace the car seat."

You must be one of those 5 percent of American car seat parents who can put them in properly each time. More than 90 percent of the time, car seats are incorrectly installed, according to car seat material info.

We have a newborn and a 3.5 year old (who uses a full car seat because he hasn't yet hit the 40 lb. point for a convertible seat) and installing even one seat is 20-30 minutes of sweating and grunting.

If I want to haul something that requires the second row of seats to do down, I use a different car.

masterpaul1 · April 2005

Well, we don't have the Stow-N-Go seats, but we use both a booster and toddler car seat all the time. It takes no time to place or remove both car seats. I would have to say that it takes more effort then time to take out the car seats and captain chairs. (We have four kids). :shades:

marine2 · April 2005

It will be fun in a year or so, listening to these Honda owners that have been doing nothing but down playing Chrysler's stow-n-go seats, talk about how much softer and nicer the Honda stow-n-go seats are than Chrysler's You'll hear how convenient they are to have stow-n-go. You just know it's coming.

isellhondas · April 2005

I just hope Honda can figure out how to make the seats so they aren't buckboard hard!

hansienna · April 2005

Do the hard (firm) seats of the Odyssey cause the loss of many sales?

The Odyssey has ALWAYS had harder (firmer) seats than the DC minivans until the 2nd and 3rd row for Stow N Go were introduced with a new, firmer foam. I like the 1999-2001 Odyssey seats best of all minivans

because they are hard (firm) and have little curvature in the seat and the seat back. Better yet were the bench seats of full size American sedans before rear wheel drive was abandoned.

just4fun2 · April 2005

It looks like Honda can't get the front seats right on the new ODY's. Let's hope they do a much better job if they use Chrysler's Sto-N-Go seating arrangement.

isellhondas · April 2005

About seat comfort are right here, in these forums.

Of course, these forums are a magnet for people who want to complain.

masterpaul1 · April 2005

I think the comfort will vary from model, trim level and year of each minivan. I know that Daimlerchrysler minivans seat design and comfort in all rows vary depending on which trim line you have. If you don't believe me, do a search on ebay and look at the pictures of various minivans to see for yourself. Although I have not sat in everyone of Daimlerchrysler minivans or Hondas for that matter, I can say that are seats are very firm and comfortable in both front and rear row. Our 3rd row 50/50 bench seat is okay. But I guess I'm just use to sitting in the captain chairs. Seat comfort really depends on the person though, personal preference. :P

just4fun2 · April 2005

Chryslers Sto-N-Go seats can't be beat. I rented a D/C van last month and drove it to DC area to drop off some furniture and pick up family members for the trip back. Couldn't have done it in any other van without having 2nd and 3rd row seats disappear for the trip down and pop back up when coming home. Great idea, great van.

I rode in the 2nd row seats coming back and it wasn't as good as the fronts, but was more comfortable that the front seats in the Ody I sat in.

I am not complaining about the Odys seats, some people take an observation the wrong way. My next van will have the Sto-N-Go arrangement.

mrblonde49 · April 2005

Would there be many people who complain to a salesman weeks or months after a purchase, about something that wouldn't be addressed?

eta · April 2005

"Now go to the coasts, or where I am (Colorado), and generally I believe it is a different story when it comes to inventory (tho it is finally getting better)."

It also probably depends a lot on the model. Good luck trying to find an EX-L with NAV/RES here in the DFW area -- this is apparently the most popular model currently. You'll have a lot less trouble getting any of the non-NAV/RES models.

ETA

momsvan · April 2005

We've owned a DGC (96) and more recently a T&C-Lxi (2003). The T&C turned out to be a used "lemon" apparently devil-possessed with electrical problems. To the credit of Chrysler, they are repurchasing the vehicle. We're now reluctant to go used again, knowing how vulnerable we are when the vehicle turns out to be defective. We're losing over $4,000 in a year's time due to the mileage we put on the vehicle.

So we need a replacement van soon. After checking out the minivan market we are down to a choice between a 2005 T&C Touring with DVD, and a 2005 Ody EX with leather. Big difference in price for us -- at a time we didn't expect to be purchasing new. However, I want to take the long term view since we put on lots of miles each year with 3 sons in sports and keep our vehicles usually until they die.

Wish I had a crystal ball and could predict which van would live a longer life. For cars we have a Honda Civic (early 90s) and a 2004 Toyota Corolla. Something tells me the long life we get on these types of cars won't translate to long life in an Ody...? Any ideas on which vehicle is more likely to see healthy, old age???

masterpaul1 · April 2005

Well to be honest, both DGC, T&C and Ody. are all very reliable. Don't get me wrong, but each has it's own problems. That's where your tolerance and patience level will come into play and probably the deciding factor too. We bought a used 2001 DGC w/37K miles back in Sep. 2003. We bought a bumper to bumper Maximumcare Warranty, since the original warranty ran out because of miles. We now have 58K miles and the only none maintance problems we had was: 1) Both front power window regulator motors needed to be replaced right after purchase; 2) New battery last year (they just don't make them like they use to); 3) Replaced gas cap (Seal was bad and made check engine light come on); 4) Front suspension work. (Heard knocking when going over bumps). Outside of that, no other problems. (I consider all of these to be minor problems and all was covered under warranty). Also, our vechicle was never disabled. Seeing that we don't know how our minivan was taken care of before we bought it, we knew of the possibility of some things going wrong the first few years of ownership. I really only see the power window regulator's as being the only non maintence issue because it is mechanical. The Battery only last three yrs now. The gas cap and front suspension equipment are items that wear with time according to usage. So for use our 2001 DGC has been very reliably for our family of six. For us, we would never buy brand new again. My wife, before we got married, bought a used 1998 Pontiac Sunfire in 1999 which has been very reliable. (Not sure what the mileage was at the time of purchase) It now has about 78K on it. Only non maintance issue we had was to have the computer reset back in 2003. :shades:

isellhondas · April 2005

I sold my next door neighbor a new Accord. It still has the original battery!

Two years ago, I told him he was tempting fate. At this point he's determined to see just how long it's going to last!

I disagree about batteries not lasting as long as they used to but after four-five years I just replace them...on MY terms!

hansienna · April 2005

I think BOTH should be very reliable if regularly maintained and driven responsibly. We like our used 2002 T&C LX and all 3 rows of seats are comfortable including the 2nd row bucket seats and 3rd row 50/50 split fold and tumble. However, the Odyssey seats are more comfortable for me but I would have never purchased an Odyssey until the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger appeared with the 2005 model. Dual Zone temperature is more important for my wife and I than the slightly more comfortable 1999-2004 Odyssey seats. If I were purchasing a new 2005 minivan, it would probably be an Odyssey EX (cloth).

I know people who had 170,000 trouble free miles on a used Caravan before they sold it to get a used Ford Explorer to tow their large trailer. (Their Taurus transmission failed at 130,000 miles so they got a used Camry). Their worst vehicle was a Chevrolet Vega (the ONLY vehicle they purchased new).

marine2 · April 2005

Reading some of these posts, I think people can begin to see how much quality has come up in American made vehicles. We are not talking about the junk they put out in the 80's and early 90's. Even consumer reports states this.

As for batteries not being as good today, not sure. But I noticed outside of a few like the Diehard, most will not offer three year, full replacement anymore. With most, it's only 18 or 24 months. But as replacement costs go, a new battery has to be about the cheapest thing to replace on any vehicle.

masterpaul1 · April 2005

I owned a 1977 Ford LTD for 7 yrs with over 170K, had the battery replaced at least three times; a 1982 Concord for 9 months with over 80K, never replaced the battery; a 1986 Lincoln Town car for 5 yrs with over 189K, had to replace the battery twice; We now own a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire for 6 yrs with over 77K and replaced the battery once and a 2001 DGC we've had for 1 yr. 7 months, replaced the battery once. I've done pretty much all of the maintence on all of these vechicles, including cleaning the battery post and making sure the battery was secure in it's place. We just had our garage built in Oct. 2003 and not sure if the cars being outside would have killed the life of all those batteries. But as far as my experience is concerned with 5 different vechicles a different brand batteries, most had to be replaced between 3 to 5 yrs. :shades:

ivan_99 · April 2005

1982 Concord...was than an AMC? The jacked up thing that looked odd but now can be considered a "cross over".

heh...

robr2 · April 2005

The AMC Concord was a RWD line of vehicles.

The AMC Eagle was the AWD/4x4 version of the Concord.

masterpaul1 · April 2005

Yes, it was raised in the rear from the leaf springs and was rear wheel drive. :P

rodut · April 2005

I know why quality has come up in American made vehicles relatively to Japanese. It's because the parts are made by the same manufacturers. All the cars are made in America, and the suppliers are the same.

For instance both my friend's Toyota Sienna, my Honda Accord, and my wife's Chrysler Pacifica have the alternator, fans etc made by the same manufacturer, Denso. It's funny, but Chrysler's alternator is made in Japan (by Denso) and Honda's and Toyota's alternator are made in US (by Denso too). You would expect the other way round, right ??

At this time I think we should buy what we like, because anyway we have no clue where the parts of those cars are made. They should be closer and closer to each other, quality wise. That's why we bought our Pacifica. We liked it.

hayneldan · April 2005

Exclusive News Headline:
Chrysler Builds Minivan #11,000,000
Chrysler Group says it has sold its 11 millionth minivan, after 21 years of assembling the family vehicles. Chrysler introduced the minivan to Americans in the early 1980s, and has built four generations of the vans, now outfitted with fold-flat Stow 'n Go seats and DVD entertainment systems. Chrysler says it passed the milestone in March of this year; the company also adds that it still holds on to about a third of the entire minivan market in the U.S. "Chrysler Group is proud to be the inventor of the modern minivan, and prouder still to be the segment leader for 21 years," said Darryl Jackson, vice president of Dodge marketing. "We are thrilled that 11 million Chrysler and Dodge minivan customers choose our vehicles by more than a 2-to-1 margin versus our nearest competitor

hansienna · April 2005

How does this 11 million compare to the total sales of the Volkswagen Beetle/Super Beetle and the Ford Model T?

jipster · April 2005

McDonalds use to have a sign up that said,"Over 10 Million Sold".They still sell more hamburgers than anybody else. But, I'll take a Wendy's burger any day of the week over a Mickey D's(Wheres the Beef) burger.

hansienna · April 2005

My wife and our children also prefer Wendy's over McDonalds.
My wife and I also prefer DC minivans with the most important feature: Separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger. I am surprised that this feature is not available on every quality vehicle.
The Odyssey EX is now one of the acceptable minivans since Honda added separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger...MANY years after it was available on almost every DC minivan.

jipster · April 2005

Some people prefer just the basics.i.e a big piece of beef, a sesame seed bun, and maybe some ketchup. The rest of that stuff is just window 'dressing'.Why buy what you don't want or need? I'm talking about cars now...not hamburgers.

hansienna · April 2005

Listed in order of my preference:
# 1. Odyssey EX (cloth)
# 2. GC SXT with no extra options.
# 3 T&C Touring with no extra options.

All 3 are now available with nice discounts.

jamesh3 · May 2005

question: I just saw this message, and just met someone with a new 05 honda odyssey touring. they had just been at the dealership to resolve a "whistling noise" on what sounded like the driver's side. the dealership replaced some kind of seal, but the noise is still there, about 40 mph and above. what's the "easy fix?" Crossbars? Seals? Mirrors? please advise if you've had this resolved. thanks! :confuse:

eta · May 2005

Any of the things you mentioned could cause the whistling noise. Also, a number of people have reported that the cowling under the wipers hasn't been properly sealed up against the front windshield and fixing this has helped in some cases.

I've also heard of noises due to the sunroof / moonroof.

ETA

badgerfan · May 2005

Caravan 81,696 vs 2004 80,020 a 2% increase
Town and Country 61,156 vs 2004 38,333 over a 59% increase.
Odyssey 55,566 vs 2004 45,169 a 23% increase
Sienna 47,914 vs 2004 56,348 a 15% decrease

Odyssey gaining ground which understandable with a new model replacing one that had been around since 1999.

Sienna losing ground-- reasons?????

Chrysler version of the DaimlerChrysler twins is really zooming in sales with Dodge slightly increased. Stow and Go seems to be gaining traction.

Likely overall minivan sales have increased due to people switching out of their SUV's to get better mileage, so not all the gained ground by the hot sellers is at the expense of the others, though why the Sienna sales rates are slowing is a bit puzzling.

hansienna · May 2005

Part of the Town & Country increase is because the former Chrysler Voyager is now called a Town & Country. Sienna sales decrease is because the Sienna is overpriced

.
As an owner of a 2002 T&C LX, I prefer the 2nd row buckets with 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row seating to the 2005 Stow and Go. The 2nd and 3rd row seats of my 2002 T&C LX are more comfortable than the 2nd and 3rd row Stow and Go. The 2002 has more space for the feet of the passengers in the 2nd and 3rd row than does the 2005 Stow and Go.
The Odyssey has the most comfortable seats for me in all seats. I also prefer the location of the Odyssey spare tire to the DC minivans spare tire in the Stow and Go minivans. However, the Odyssey still lacks the nice complete overhead console of DC minivans with compass/outside temperature and trip computer even though the Odyssey finally offers separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger. One has to pay over $31,000 MSRP to get the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger in a Sienna. :confuse:

badgerfan · May 2005

Ok Voyager had 6,534 in 2004, so Chrysler sales went to 61,156 in 2005 from 44,867 for T&C+Voyager in 2004. Still over a 36% increase, which is still sizeable considering the upgraded competition.

I really could care less about where the spare is mounted, but DaimlerChrysler, please stay away from expensive run flat or those high tech and overpriced Michelins run flats that Honda is putting on their top of the line models. At most all I would like to see implemented is a full size spare rather than the space saver spare.

Flat tires are so rare these days that it is more important to be able to get an inexpensive replacement tire if one fails, rather than pay for an expensive run flat that may not even be available in an emergency.

Seating comfort? Well the marketplace seems to be giving Chrysler the nod on Stow and Go, willing to compromise perhaps a small bit of comfort (perceived or real) for the flexibility and ease of use of Stow and Go.

robr2 · May 2005

Is stow and go standard on every Chrysler van? If not, perhaps you are giving the feature too much credit.

masterpaul1 · May 2005

All but the SWB version. I'm not sure if it is standard or an option on all LWB versions. :surprise:

masterpaul1 · May 2005

I had a flat in our van last year on the expressway in the winter time. It was about 30 degrees outside and my two younger children were with me. I was doing about 70 MPH when I noticed a difference in the steering wheel, but I never lost control of the van nor did I feel like I was losing control. I pulled over to the shoulder and got out to check what was going on and saw that I had a flat tire on the front driver side tire. (To which was the side that I pulled onto the shoulder). It was kinda of scary at times, because all of the cars were speeding by at or above 60 MPH and the van kept shaking as some cars went by. I really didn't have a problem changing the tire, but I couldn't help but to think If this had happened to my Wife. How would she have felt and what she would have done. This is about my third time in over 15 years of driving that I have had a flat like that on the expressway. I can see why some like the run flat tires, even though they are costly to replace and don't last as long as your standard tires. Even still, I prefer the standard tires over the run flat tires any day. When I took the tire in for repair, they told me that it had two holes, one in the tread and one on the side wall. A new tire cost us total with road hazard insurance about $165.00. (This was the price for a lose tire). Our spare tire is in the back under our van where the cargo area is. It is so easy to get to and crank down. I can even check the tire pressure easily with it under the van. I even like the van jack and handle. Not as flimsy or hard to use like some of the other jacks in todays cars. Our jack handle has a swiveling head which makes it easier to turn the bolts and when using the jack or crank pulley. I had a chance to see the spare on the 2005 models and didn't like it at all. For one, there is a cover over the tire to protect it and can only be removed from under the van. (From what I was told). You have to literally get under the van to get to it. Second, the space were the bolt is to crank down the spare, is right in front of the dash board. So you don't have a lot of room to use whatever tool is needed to crank the tire down. :shades:

badgerfan · May 2005

Stow and Go is not in the short wheel base versions, but they account for I believe less than 10% of sales. Also the long wheel base "base" Grand Caravan, and I assume the "base" Town and Country also are available without Stow and Go. I would suspect, however that Stow and Go is in 70-80% of all of DaimlerChrysler's minivans, though this is just a guess.

hansienna · May 2005

No, but 3rd row 60/40 Stow and Go is now standard on every GC SE with 2nd row bench standard.
As badgerfan stated, no SWB Caravan and NO SWB T&C have Stow and Go available.
Stow and Go may be increasing T&C sales but at present, the Stow and Go will cause me to get an Odyssey for my next minivan even though I am well satisfied with my 2002 T&C LX with 2nd row buckets and 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row.
I do NOT like the spare tire location on Stow and Go vans. The 2nd and 3rd row seating of Stow and Go is not as comfortable as the seating in my 2002 T&C although the seating in the Odyssey is more comfortable than my 2002 T&C.

marine2 · May 2005

Stow and Go may be increasing T&C sales but at present, the Stow and Go will cause me to get an Odyssey for my next minivan even though I am well satisfied with my 2002 T&C LX with 2nd row buckets and 50/50 split fold and tumble 3rd row.
I do NOT like the spare tire location on Stow and Go vans. The 2nd and 3rd row seating of Stow and Go is not as comfortable as the seating in my 2002 T&C although the seating in the Odyssey is more comfortable than my 2002 T&C.

I have the 2005 with Stow and Go. Although the middle seats are a little more firm, they are not uncomfortable at all.

While I don't like where the spare tire is on my van,(under & between the two front seats) it really isn't any worse than changing a tire on a pickup truck.

I love the stow and go feature of those seats. I usually only carry three kids home from school and that allows me to stow one of those seats. I could stow them both, but I don't. That one bin holds a furniture pad, tools, flash light, umbrella and battery cables. Nothing sits out to mess up my van. The one stowed seat gives me plenty of room getting the kids in and out and gives the dog some place to lay down or to carry stuff like I did last week, when I took my air compressor over to my brothers house.

I never worry if I go to Lowes or some place else and buy something big, that I have to go home first and take the seats out to carry it. I'm always ready no matter what it is. Stowing those seats was the only reason I sold my 2001 Dodge Dakota truck. I didn't need it anymore and I have a heck of a lot more room.

hayneldan · May 2005

Lets remember that Honda stored their mini spare behind the front seats in the floor in front of the second row until the 2005 models. That space has become the "lazy susan storage space" for 2005. The mini spare if you haven't ordered the PAX tires is located on the drivers side rear big hump behind and alongside the third seat. This is why they eliminated the electric rear (last) windows opening function. The DC stow and go spare is located under the car and is winched down from the front seats. They still have the rear opening third windows. :P

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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