Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

sphinx99 · March 2002

What cars did R&T pick? (I'm curious.)

I expect the XLR to compete much more closely with the SL500. I agree that the SC and SL aren't too comparable. They target slightly different audiences. There probably would be some cross-shopping, but then again you will have people cross-shopping an Excursion against a 911 to figure out what they want to be seen in, or what their priorities are.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2002

Lessee, sphinx, I'll try to remember them. Miata LS of course in the bottom range, Corvette, BMW M3, Porsche and Ferrari. The criteria were (all 3 together) Excitement, Entertainment and Value. So given those aspects of the choice, I could see where both the Lexus and SL500 lose out, for different reasons.

toyotas1 · March 2002

Saying the Liberty and Grand Cherokee aren't comparable because they are $5k different in price. Both cars have 300hp, both cars are expensive luxury cars, both cars are converibles, both cars have aluminum roofs (they are 2 out of a market of 3!), and are both the same size! They couldn't be more comparable! And V12, you can't say the Lexus copied anything from the SL because it came out FIRST! It is my guess, now looking at Lexus' pricing strategy (showing the immense value of the car by pricing it 25% less than the SL), and the Benz price strategy (rigid, high $80's), that the upcoming XLR will thry to sit between them, instead of fight one or the other. It's like playing baseball, especially in a new segment (hardtop convertibles). Hit it where they ain't.....

v12power · March 2002

I find nav systems in general to be worthless options. Open up the map for gods sake. I prefer mechanical improvements over luxo features. Maybe I am the one that is strange.

I have an MB with the ABC system, it is a very impressive and useful feature of the car. I have not tried the SL, there is not one availible near me right now. I will likely wait for the SL55 anyway, it suits my tastes better. That is probably what this boils down to, personal taste/preferances. Lexus, in general, makes cars that are rather bland driving when compared to the european competition. Sure they are a good value, sure they offer impressive option loads, but they do not drive the way I expect a car to drive. I also find the styling to be Japanese wierd, they have yet to style an attractive car.

toyotas1 · March 2002

the market disagrees. This design certaily dispells the myth that Toyotas (and Japanese designs in general) are boring, or derivative. And many people who drive $60-70-80k vehicles use NAV ALOT, want it to be super-convenient (adding to it's value, Benz owners dismiss it generally because Benz doesn't know how to make them useful or intelligent). Do people get more use out of a CD player in dash, or positive feeling controls, or an ABC system you can only appreciate on an Autobahn..... I applaud the pioneering thinkig for their suspensions, and I LOVE a car that drives well. But at these prices, it better not be at the expense of.....anything. They want all the jack, I want all the features!

v12power · March 2002

I don't think it dispells any myth, remember that most people are derivative and boring too. How else would you account for GM selling anything other than Corvettes?

Do you know a lot of people with cars in that price range? How do you KNOW they use the nav systems? The peole I know that own these cars generally live in the city and commute to and from work. They go the same route everyday, they know the way, they rarely use nav. I have used my Benz' nav system. It is so easy to use that my wife tried it first. We bought the car in California, 2500 miles from home. We had to get from downtown LA to the Ontario airport in rush hour traffic, we had no map. The only instruction she had was the 10 minutes the salesman spent on it during delivery, no book reading, no prior experience. She simply used the command system to look up the airport and the voice told here where to go. It was very simple, and very helpful. My guess is that you have never tried the system. It worked flawlessly for me. I have also read that the touch screen in the Lexus tends to look dirty due to fingerprints on the screen. Pretty classy set-up.

Like the MB nav system, I doubt you have experienced the ABC system. You do not need an autobahn to appreciate it. It eliminates pitch and roll in everyday driving, almost completely. It imparts a sense of control and stability not found in other cars.

So, there seem to be two items you can pick on here. You insist that dvd nav is infinately superior to cd based systems because it uses one disc instead of 9. Then you require a cd player in the dash. You make it sound like the MB doesn't even have nav or cd. They do, it is just a little different system. With just the smallest amout of brainpower you can load the cd magazine and proper nav cd before you depart. You are good to go for hours then. It is certainly not the issue you want to make it out to be.

merc1 · March 2002

Is that all you've got is sales figures? You're deflating even faster now. Notice how your posts get shorter and shorter. Yep, sales figures for a car that costs thousands less are higher so I guess that makes the Honda Accord the best car on the road. Duh, if the SC430 can't beat the CLK430 Cabrio (now remember you're the one that lives and dies by C&D) what chance do you think it stands against the brand-new SL500, that is years ahead of the CLK430 cabrio? The fool is the one who thinks they're getting the Benz experience in the SC430.

sphinx99,

That's because you're not reading the right magazines. R&T, SCI have both said wonderful things about the SL500, and Sports Car International has said that the SL500 is quite possibly the best car on the road or the "perfect automobile", the SC430 hasn't got that in the year or so it's been on the market. You guys kill me, just because C&D did gush you can't even read anyone else's review of the car. PICK UP OTHER MAGAZINES!

On that R&T best convertibles issue. I know they picked the Corvette, 911 Carrera, and 360 Modena, not sure what the others were. I will have to search the vault for the issue to give you the others.

M

w210 · March 2002

For those who can afford it, the SL500 is the best grand touring convertible out there, possibly the best all rounded convertible.

toyotas1 · March 2002

Merc, you boar me. No one reads SCI. I haven't seen a SCI on the shelves in a couple of years. I just think the car is $10k overpriced, that it is slightly better, but damn sure not $25k better. And nobody in this country wants "The Benz experience", they WANT "The Lexus Experience". That you also underestimate. The car has weaknesses, and this will probably not change. I like it, and I like the Lexus too. In this country we have three mags, and R&T is slippin'...... SCI is a fly on my [non-permissible content removed].... getting the better of you bores me...... the Lexus is a much smarter buy until you can prove me wrong.....

sphinx99 · March 2002

I read online blurbs. I also don't name magazines the "wrong" magazines just because they said something bad about my beloved. If R&T says something bad about the SL55 but something good about the SL500, whatever will you do?

I'd be very interested in links to online articles about the SL. So far I have read three on edmunds.com (which is by far my favorite auto review site on the net) and one on C&D (which is my second favorite). I don't read R&T because www.roadandtrack.com doesn't post any meat from the magazine online and I'm not planning to subscribe. I don't claim to be close minded or brush off articles that differed from my opinions as being patently "wrong" like you've been doing. Feel free to educate me with articles I can read that present the SL500 in better light. Like I said, most of my reading comes right out of edmunds.com and at least according to Edmunds, the SL500 is something of a lukewarm vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2002

sphinx, I'll send you an R&T issue on the SL500 if you like. E-mail me.

sphinx99 · March 2002

I'll make a trip to the local library and/or Borders and take a look at it. Latest issue?

Mr_Shiftright · March 2002

March 2002--the car is on the cover

rayfer · March 2002

i have had the sc430 a little over a year... i went and sat in the new SL500. the lexus interior is much nicer. i like the body design of the mercedes better... they wanted 117k for the lexus in santa monica ca... give me a break... i would rather buy his and her sc430's

benznut · March 2002

One of the posts said that is cannot be said that Lexus imitated Mercedes in the case of SC, as the Sc came before the SL. Let me remind you that the SLK came years before the SC, I would safely guess around the time that Lexus started to think of building teh SC. They copied the SLK, wanted to create a competitor to the [then current] SL, adn wanted to go one better by adding rear seats (which do ont make sense at all, sicne they can only be used for groceries). Now I have never driven a SC, as it is not available in Europe, where I get the chance to drive what has come latest. I have tried the SL a while ago and itis formidable. I cannot say that it is better than the SC. But there is no way the SC started it all.

merc1 · March 2002

Seems to me like you're done, outdone that is. You have nothing else to say because you can't. The fact remains the SL500 is the better car, and obviously a many (you quote sales figures remember) think so because the car has a waiting list. You can think what you want in your own little world, because neither of these cars are truly "smart" buys, their luxury items. Since you went there though, see if you can get this. A SL500 can be driven for months and then sold back for what the original buyer bought it for, the car is just that hot....the SC430 isn't.
Yeah those 200K+ people that bought MB's last year didn't want them. Please!

sphinx99,

If R&T said something bad about a Mercedes so be it. I *usually* agree with most of the magazines, but sometimes MT hasn't a clue. That M3/Z06 comparo being one of those times.
At least you're willing to read other sources and not live/die by a single magazine and draw conclusions soley by a "book". I have quite a bit of experience with MB's though I don't own one. Never said C&D was wrong in the sense you shouldn't read them, I was saying that Toyotas1 to imply that he isn't reading anything other than C&D.

M

Mr_Shiftright · March 2002

The R&T article was quite positive. The final assessment was:

"With its stunning good looks, cutting edge technology, scintillating performance, world-class handling, plus nearly every luxury in the industry, the SL500 is a true benchmark automobile with only one major shortcoming--price. At almost $90K, it is not a car for everyman"

Also, it posted a near-record slalomm time of 67.6 mph, second only to the Porsche GT2.

How all this translates, R&T says, is that compared to the competition, except for straight line acceleration (the Jag XKR is a bit faster), the SL500 will "clean up" in all other areas.

Last sentence in article "M-B's latest hi-tech popper is a real showstopper".

sphinx99 · March 2002

So in summary, some magazines are impressed by the 2003 SL500, and some magazines aren't.

mbdcasey · March 2002

OK - here is a first hand account of my test drive last week. Ordered the SL a year ago, number 6 at our dealer (Carriage House Motors, New London, CT ask for Gene), he got four in last week, called us to take a drive. The car was a little larger in "person" than I expected, not that that is bad, the interior is exceptionally spacious, with the roof closed there is an abundance of headroom. The seats are quite similar to our 2001 CL 500, comfortable, yet supportive laterally, as well as under the thigh. The interior layout is different, not MB-like, controls are much lower on the center console. One noticeable difference is the position on the shifter on the console, much higher, or is the seats that much lower? Of course, the finish is MB, perfect. Bottom-line, the feel inside, with top closed, is intimate, though not claustrophobic. Enough, what is the SL 500, it is not an S-500/ CL 500 with a retractable top, what it is, is a sports car. Close the door, turn the engine on and you hear, the exhaust, really hear the exhaust. Moreover, when you step on the accelerator, you really hear the exhaust. Not a bad thing, just be prepared. The ride is firm, tracts like a cat, like a sports car, the ABC seems to work better than the CL, the new brake system was, at least to me, unnoticeable, though we did not really make it work that hard. Did I mention the exhaust? The entire experience was wonderful, the car is truly a masterpiece, though not one that is going to hang in our garage. After a thirty-minute drive, number seven at our dealership moved to number six. For us at least my wife summed it up pretty well, dont touch my CL, if you want a sports car go order the C4S, God I love my wife, guess where I am off to. Just wish Porsche made a retractable hard-top C4S. Thats my story and Im sticking to it.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2002

Actually I see where the wifey is coming from on this. I think it was a good assessment of the situation and good advice from her.

sphinx99 · March 2002

Someday, I too shall drive a new CL500 over to the Porsche dealership to pick up a new 911 because I want a sports car.

mgreene1 · March 2002

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/display/inn_auto/A0117_A.txt

merc1 · March 2002

Good reading and all true.

M

dschmidt4 · March 2002

I drove the new SL in LA. Anyone know why the front and rear windows do NOT go all the way down?

kdude · March 2002

Does anyone know of a web site with pictures of the updated body for 2003 CL and/or CL 55?

jstyle · April 2002

Hey, I thought I'd drop a line about an interesting new item. AutoExpress.com is reporting MB will introduce a limited edition CL55 AMG CONVERTIBLE! Yes, it will have a canvas top like the current CLK and be built this fall. Around 55K more than the current CL55. If you SL guys want a very exclusive car this is the one.

kdude the same article states the 2003 CL will only have bumper changes and the S will have an all new interior. Both look like available supercharged engines are coming as well.

deweykahuna · April 2002

The car has 70k on it and an independent dealer offered it to me for 27K. Any particular problems with maintence or stuff like that?

laysmackdown · April 2002

Man, are these cars beautiful! Had the SL55 on a pedestal, but had a video about it instead of a person. The Lexus SC had a dude talk about the what's and why's, and shows the car features in action. I didn't know the rear headrests in the SC were built as pillars for a rollbar effect! The Lexus dude made sure you understood that you will save $ on insurance with the extra seats. Mercedes DID have an SL for you to SIT in. The CD Changer BEHIND the driver seat was pretty stupid! The driver can't possibly reach the cartridge unless he's outside of the car! THe seats were big and supportive, and I think the pop up bar is very stylish, but the interior certainly lacks a luxurious feel. THe guages try to shine like a Lexus electroluminescent display, but look don't. The dash and doors are covered in hard, coarse plastic. THe center console is rather basic. I wished the inside distinguished itself like the outside. There is no contest which one is the luxury car. And which one is more expensive! Lexus: $64k, Benz: $95k. The Lexus ES300 was MUCH more upscale than the Benz interior! I'm sure it's an awesome handler, but for that money, I don't want ANY signs of cost-cutting. Advantage: Lexus.

shoes · April 2002

I just completed the first european delivery of the new SL500. The folks at the Mercedes factory ere pretty nervous and did not even know where the cupholders were and had to give me a free auxilliary one. Just as well, after I found the real ones, I learned they weren't very good.

The car took some getting used to, particularly the brakes which have very little traditional feel. It wasn't until I put 500 miles on this car that I can say that I began to fall in love with it. And really, it wasn't until I as on the autobahn that I really began to appreciate it. At 100 MPH it was outstanding. I took it up to 135 MPH even though I wasn't supposed to during the break in, but when else will I get a chance to drive it like this legally.

I LOVE THIS CAR.

w210 · April 2002

What color is your SL500? A great car I took delivery of mine with dark metallic blue and light cream leather..

shoes · April 2002

My SL500 is Tectite Grey with the Stone interior, which is that light color you refer to. The Euro floor mats are almost white, which makes them very impractical but very beautiful.

thor8 · April 2002

Way back I was reading a Toyota fan saying the object of the game is to sell more cars and in that area Lexus has beat Mercedes.

The fact is that ANYBODY will sell more vehicles than Mercedes in any class and it only proves just that.
The SL600 is around the corner and it will cost close to 140,000$ and the AMG versions even more, the interesting thing would be to see if a Lexus will sell for for 140,000$, noway Jose.

What Lexus people fail to understand is that there is a point were the affluent is also interested in "exclusivity and prestige", more gadgets and gizmos become irrelevant, they are far removed from the Chevy vs Ford mentality, they are also removed from this "value" argument.
People who buy the high end cars, have an idea of what they want and how much it will cost, they don't have to ask, is a completely different segment from those that are milling around the lot and the 900$ from one model to the other makes the difference wether they can buy or not.

Mercedes will raise the ante even further with the Maybach and again all discussions will be academic, more likely a Maybach purchaser will pick up the phone and order one, his biggest dilemma may be the colors and delivey date.

Toyota fans also tend to think as if they invented technology, I guess that is why Toyota research & development Gmbh, is located in Germany and also the formula one project is located in Germany and raided Porsche, Mercedes, BMW to design and build the car.

w210 · April 2002

Shoes - I know what you mean about the light color floor mats, I have custom made taupe floor mats (the color matches the darker taupe on the dash) for practicality.

w210 · April 2002

While I have yet to test drive the SC430, the lack of roll on the SL500 simply blows my mind away. It's unbelievable how much more stable it is at its limited compared to other MBs or BMWs (except perhaps the 745i which is pretty good in this respect).

The second generation ABC is a major leap for MB, this new technology is seriously impressive, miles ahead of the heavy and clumsy systems on the first generation Q45. I don't think I would order another MB without the ABC.

benznut · April 2002

I do not believe that the ABC in the Sl is second generation. It may simply me geared in a more sportive manner to go with the character of the car. Althoug I may be wrong, there isn't yet a second generation ABC.
It is true, the effect in the SL is unreal.

w210 · April 2002

I believe you are correct, the Airmatic Dual Control suspension, the first Mercedes that tinkers both damper and spring settings on the move will not be available until the W211.

However, as I said before, the lack of roll is simply amazing.

merc1 · April 2002

Guys when are the new engines coming??

M

w210 · April 2002

Took the car out top down for an extensive drive, totally amazed it has less body roll than the E55 AMG..

habitat1 · May 2002

I would have hoped a two seat roadster would have less body roll than a nearly two ton sedan, but then again, I forgot the SL500 weighs OVER two tons!

Seriously, I was wondering how you would compare it to other roadsters like a Boxster S, or even other sport convertibles like the M3 or CLK430/55. I have been offered a test drive, but I don't want to wear out my welcome, since they gave me a C32 to try out for a day last fall and there is no chance I would ever seriously consider buying an SL (unless they stick a 6-speed in the SL55, and I win the lottery).

merc1 · May 2002

I knew it would happen, I predicted it in 2000!!! Mercedes-AMG is building a limited run of 2003
CL55 AMG Cabrios, at 132K a piece. Mercedes has not ruled out having the CL Cabrio as a
regular model in the MB lineup. Autoweek May 13th, issue.

M

w210 · May 2002

Yes, if you consider the W210 is 400 lbs lighter than the R230 SL500, you would realize how amazing the SL's handling is. 400 lbs is a lot, in my W210 E55, if I have 3 friends in the car, surely I can tell it's heavier and less nimble. I can't wait to see what the new ABC and Airmatic suspension technology will help the W211!

Comparing the R230 SL500 with other roadsters.. The SL is the only one with a durable easy to maintain hard top. It's not the fastest but most civilized and user friendly, and definitely the safest. With all the SUVs out there, if I were to collide with one in a convertible, I would rather be in the SL.

Personally, I rather have a two door coupe and not a convertible as a true sports car, the SL500 to me is a luxurious cruiser which can go topless in very little time. It has the best interior (make sure you order the stone color interior - light cream color with walnut wood), it's has the best fit and finish with leather everywhere, the interior is far nicer than the M3, CLK, Boxster, 996, 360, SC430, TT, etc.

The way it drives? It's not the outright boy racer fastest convertible for the money but its excellent driving dynamics (lack of body roll, unreal brakes, stability in sharp turns and braking) will put many sportier and lighter roadsters to shame.

And the best thing about the car? It's excellent resale value, if you buy in cash, the cost of ownership is very little. My MB dealer told me outright that if I were to trade it in within a year, they would take it back at full MSRP!

habitat1 · May 2002

Would you have to pay over MSRP to get the car now? I would be willing to write a check for $90k to drive an SL for a year with assurances I could get my money back (less taxes and tags, of course)! Unfortunately, having to "trade" it for another MB product, while still not a bad deal, is less enticing.

From the sounds of your experience, the new SL it is indeed a vast improvement over the previous model. I am still personally attracted to cars that are more engaging of the driver - i.e. manual transmission being the biggest item. I know that the new automatics from AMG are probably quicker shifting than I am, but I still enjoy the connection that comes with shifting myself. I'm 45, so the chances of me outgrowing this desire are diminishing. But, if I do, AMG would be where I would look.

If you end up in a new SL, you have my hearty congratulations!

w210 · May 2002

Thanks for the congratulations, I'm quite enjoying this car and since it's not a weekend toy for me, I'm glad I don't have to deal with the clutch in traffic.

Actually, one simply cannot find a SL even at MSRP+$10k and the dealer offered cash back in a year's time. Although I haven't entertained this offer too seriously, I quite doubt they will really put where their mouth is.

yamahar6 · May 2002

IMHO, the SC430 and the SL are not really comparable. This coming from an owner of a Lexus.

That is, the Sl is virtually in a class of one, except perhaps the XK series, but even that is a shady assertion.
The SL Class is 50 years old! That is, one model has been around for 50 years continuously!

I don't know about anyone else, but the 300SL-like styling really gets me off. I've seen the Benz in traffic and it's gorgeous, it makes the CL CLass look v. bland by comparison!

Anyway, I used to have an S Class from the 80s, specifically a 500SEL, and it's true, that Benz did not do interiors like say, Jag. or Rolls, but there was a feeling of quality. Maybe, they used plastic a lot on the dash instead of leather like Rolls, but the plastic had Quality.

The last Benz I drove that had that feeling was the current E Class. There is no denying the fact that MB is changing- for better or worse.

The plastics on some cars have gotten cheaper, witness the S-Class and C-Class (Altho. the S is still a nice place to spend time).

Benz Cars now are less distinctive to drive than before. In the 80s, Benz was synonymous with "Tank."
They were heavy cars that were built more for Autobahn cruising in a straight line at high speeds than driving around town as painlessly as possible. But I was always amazed at their turning circles. I guess a consequence of Germany not having as much room as the US.

Anyway, MBs have become much nimbler on their feet, and hence, as a result, lose some of that tanklike feel. As I said before - for better or worse. BMW drivers might say better, MB drivers from the 80s might say worse.

The interior designers now, have tried to use more organic shapes that are pleasing to the eye, in contrast to the earlier "function first, form last" approach.

Witness the dials on the SL55, the Clocklike things, MB never would have done that sort of purely-asthetic thing before. I'm not criticizing it - on the contrary, I like it. But, just another example of how their approach has changed.

Lexus makes some great quality interiors, although, IMHO, the LS430 interior is not as good as the LS400's. The SC430 is quite distinctive though, and lately I have been seeing quite a few on the roads. Bottom line: for Lexus, the interior is a major focus, that is, passenger comfort. One major example is the unnecessary, (but appreciated) lengths they went to with the stereo (Nakamichi, now Mark Levin.); for MB the main thing is how the car drives, that is why the SL500 is better than the SC dynamically.

merc1 · May 2002

Interesting post, accurate and very precise. I wonder if any MB employees ever hang out here?
I for one want the tank thing back, let BMW battle it out with who has the highest slalom speeds and the most grip. A Benz is about quality, safety, power, security and performance last. They'll never out-BMW BMW. They should be able to combine the tank-like construction with the new generation styling, that would be perfect.

M

habitat1 · May 2002

I agree with your last post.

I had considered replacing my sedan in 1999 and found that, although I prefer the BMW 5-series over the E-class as a "sport" sedan, the E300 Turbodiesel, of all things, was extremely tempting. Solid build, great fuel economy, a reputation for lasting a lifetime and still very decent performance (same 0-60 time as my old 1984 Toyota Supra). Had I not elected to postpone replacing my sedan, I am guessing I would have gone with the Mercedes. Looking forward, a new E-class turbodiesel 4-matic wagon would be a no-brainer to replace our SUV with in a couple of years. I could pass it on to my kids who could pass it on to theirs, and so on. BMW has it's sports niche. Mercedes should stick with what it does best. I like "different" choices, not "wannabe's".

merc1 · May 2002

Exactly....now if I could just get that through to MB's top folks.

M

dschmidt4 · May 2002

I have a SL500 on order. Rented it in LA a few times. Was surprised that the front and rear windows do not go all the way down (similar to the CLKs). My dealer said it was a "design feature", meaning I guess that M-B couldn't solve a problem. Anyone have any idea whether this "feature" will be fixed? Also, my dealer told me that the DVD navigation system which will replace the CD-ROM will not show up until the 2004 SL500 comes out, a year from next July. Anyone hear differently? Thanks in advance for your responses.

jstyle · May 2002

The MY2004 SL500 will be out in late summer/fall 2003. This is probably the car the dealer was talking about. It is a little unclear when the new COMAND system will be released. Perhaps one year later when the entire system will be sourced from Nokia's telematics division. Besides a completely new interface (joystick control) the phones will be bluetooth (a wireless technology) enabled handsets, so you will be able to keep the phone in your jacket, purse etc...and use the in car speakers/microphones. No more plugging it into the console. By the way this means all Motorola phones and systems will not be compatible. Must throw out the car to get the new system, so to speak. Hope this helps.

yamahar6 · May 2002

I realize, that this is not exactly the place, but... does anybody find it strange that Mercedes is releasing the 55 just a short time after the 500>?

Eg. the M3 was released to boost sales 3 yrs. after the original current 3 series; the Type R Integra, several years after original; Last gen. Civic Si; Corvette Z06

Usually a manufacturer will drum up a power boost on a new model at least a few years after intro. One can say that Benz is no mere "ordinary" automaker, but then BMW does follow that practice, with the M3 and M5.

Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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