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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Why would you have too? What would be the reason to remove it with Stow-n-Go? "

    The link that you provided was about an Ody owner who wanted to remove the 3rd row seats so he had the well space for a trip, without having to use a roof box. He could fold his 3rd row seats if he wanted, but wanted the space, but not the seats. That's why, when you titled it "Should anyone tell them about Stow-n-go?", I thought that you meant the seats were removable in the DC vans. :confuse:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    The link that you provided was about an Ody owner who wanted to remove the 3rd row seats so he had the well space for a trip, without having to use a roof box. He could fold his 3rd row seats if he wanted, but wanted the space, but not the seats.

    With Stow-N-Go he has the space and can have the seats too, if wanted. There is about 3/4 of the room under the second row seats that there is in the well behind the third row seats. He would have all the storage he wanted without taking out any seats. He could stow or not stow the third row seats.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    During the past year of owning my Ody, I have never had to remove the second row seats. The fold down 3rd row seat was fine even for transporting of my recent purchase of a fully assembly BBQ grill with side burner

    It's obvious that there is a number of Honda people that don't have enough room and are either taking their seats out, or putting up a roof box.

    But for folks who are involved in heavy trade work activites or get their jollies scouting garage sales and flea markets, it may come in handy to pick more junk to add to their collection.


    Believe it or not macakava, most of the owners of 2005 Dodge/Chrysler vans didn't buy them for work or going around to flea markets to pick up more junk. They had enough sense to see the advantage of Stow-n-Go for carrying families and the things families take with them. The advantage of going on vacation and having all the room they need to carry the stuff they need. The advantage of unexpectedly finding something at the store or at a flea market and being able to take it home with them now.

    Now you and some other Honda/Toyota owners might have the money to waste always buying new, or having things delivered, or paying thousands of dollars more for a van that you think gives you that status you think you get by buying only Japanese vehicles. But Chrysler owners are a little more frugal with our money. We look for value and want a van that does everything we want it to do. It's things like that that allows me and the wife to take a 19 day trip to Ireland, England and Scotland in Oct. If you send me your address, I would be more than happy to send you a card from there.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Honda's now use timing chains that are good much longer than the timing belts; just like the Dodge. I believe your neighbor was mistaken, unless he/she drives a late-model Ody.

    I like this lively conversation, if we can just keep it from getting personal. I am in no way trying to make anyone feel bad or threatened, and doubt I am, when I make comments about these vehicles(although most of you are Type-A people from what I can see, and also enjoy a debate). keep up the good work, as I am glad to hear that Chrysler may finally be getting their act together as far as reliability goes. Is it just me, or does the conversation tend to be repeating every few days???
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    May I ask who thinks ANY minivan is purchased as a status symbol? Regardless of brand, I am afraid that none of these cars will have passers-by green with envy because of that 'fancy automobile'. Maybe when Mercedes releases the R-Class wagon/vanlet/SUV thing can one feel uppity with their passenger hauler. I feel that I can say this comment since I drive a van about half of my miles on the road. Life goes on...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Honda's now use timing chains that are good for the life of the car; just like the Dodge. I believe your neighbor was mistaken

    She said she paid to have a timing belt put in. Not sure when Honda went to a chain. I think her car is about 5-6 years old, but not sure. She is in New Jersey visiting her daughter now. I don't think our 2004 Civic has one, but I would have to wait till the boss comes home to check the owners manual.

    Glad your enjoying the debate. It can get lively at times but there is no hard feelings on my part with anyone. It just feels good to be able to say things about my Dodge that that is true, that a lot of previous Dodge/Chrysler people couldn't say about their's, some years ago. It really does look like Chrysler has their act together finally. Just seems like no one is complaining about the 2005. Very little about the 2004 either. As a matter of fact, it seems like many of the complaints really slacked off after the 2001's.

    I can't say I don't get a lot of satisfaction in proving to some Honda owners, that the van they have, isn't the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. And I know it's killing some not to see a bunch of Dodge/Chrysler owners complain about their 2005's
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    No need to Marine2.

    From my frequent business travels over the past 20 years which includes trips to Europe and the Far East, I have accumulated so much frequent flyer miles, hotel and car rental points that I have been able to take my family of 5 on free vacations(flights, hotels and car covered) about twice a year to locations like Hawaii and the exotic Far East.

    I still have another 750,000 +miles left, 5 free tickets with Southwest, and free hotel stays that I have to use up. These 5 SW ticket will take us to Las Vegas soon and I guess that we can plan to go aboard afterwards. What a life!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Glad to hear you were able to get so many frequent flier miles from your business Mac. My job didn't allow me to do that. But I will be driving my brand new DGC up to Vegas next year. It's only about 5 hours from Phoenix. Us poor folks just have to make do with what we have.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    If you have the time and I believe that you do as you may be retired, do the circle from Vegas to Reno/Tahoe to San Fran to LA and then back to Vegas.

    I did that 8+ years ago. The Vegas to Reno will be the most barren desolate part of the trip - about 250+ miles of desert - so be prepared.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I can't say I don't get a lot of satisfaction in proving to some Honda owners, that the van they have, isn't the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. And I know it's killing some not to see a bunch of Dodge/Chrysler owners complain about their 2005's

    You should check out other Honda boards....that's a load of fun!! Smugness is great to prick with a pin now and then!!! (well, it usually takes a large nail to burst some of these people).

    Hey, I forgot something too.....DCX's 7year/70k mile warranty!!!! Lower price, less recalls and issues, less trips to dealer, better peace of mind
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    All V-6 Honda engines have timing belts. The 4 cyl engines used in the 2003 and newer Accords, 2002 and newer CRVS and all Elements have a chain.

    All Civics use a timing belt good for 105,000 miles in 1997 and newer cars.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Glad to hear you were able to get so many frequent flier miles from your business Mac. My job didn't allow me to do that. But I will be driving my brand new DGC up to Vegas next year. It's only about 5 hours from Phoenix. Us poor folks just have to make do with what we have.

    Ahhhh yeah, all those wonderful business trips - nights away from wife and family. No thanks, the FF miles aren't worth the aggravation at airports, delays flights, missing family events etc... been there, done that and never again. There's much more to life than fancy vacation, trying to compensate family for missing real things.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Hey, Dennis...

    Want to guess WHY DCX went to that 70K/7 year warranty?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    If you have the time and I believe that you do as you may be retired, do the circle from Vegas to Reno/Tahoe to San Fran to LA and then back to Vegas.

    I'm retired, but the wife still works. If I knew retirement would be this good, I'd have gotten her a second job and retired 10 years earlier.

    The Vegas to Reno will be the most barren desolate part of the trip - about 250+ miles of desert - so be prepared.

    Be prepared? Any place I go outside of Phoenix is desert. That's why I got the Dodge, I wanted something I could depend on getting me through the desert. I can't always afford to fly.ha,ha.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Let's guess, the same reason Honda extended the warranties on the Auto Trannys to 100k miles few years back???

    This coming from a guy that sells Hondas.....this should be good!!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Ahhhh yeah, all those wonderful business trips - nights away from wife and family.

    Dennis, it isn't that bad. My wife goes on business trips about twice a year. It gives me more time to drive my DGC and watch the television shows I want. And...
  • davids1davids1 Member Posts: 411
    Marketing!!! Nothing more, nothing less!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Dennis,

    I'm trying very hard to temper my responses to you. You continue to harp on the same things.

    Yes, Honda had some transmission problems. They recognized this and took action. Their transmission problems pale in comparison to the trans problems Chrysler has had and I think you know that.

    The 7/70 warranty was put in place in an attempt to restore faith in a lackluster product. Check the CR ratings and see for yourself.

    Hopefully they are on the right track now.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I'm trying very hard to temper my responses to you. You continue to harp on the same things.

    Yes, Honda had some transmission problems. They recognized this and took action. Their transmission problems pale in comparison to the trans problems Chrysler has had and I think you know that.

    The 7/70 warranty was put in place in an attempt to restore faith in a lackluster product. Check the CR ratings and see for yourself.


    same thing?? LOL....me?? I brought up the warranty benefits of DCX's. You wanna talk trannys...go right ahead, but it's a little like the pot calling the kettle black. I just assume Hondas never have any issues, they're sooo great!!!! Was Honda's warranty extension to 100k miles to restore faith in a lackluster product?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I've been around these forums from the beginning and I know when it's best to back off.

    It's good to believe in the product you own I suppose.

    Carry on...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    On this Isell, I agree with you. Honda did a much better job dealing with their transmission problem than Chrysler did.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    It's good to believe in the product you own I suppose.

    It's good to believe in a product you sell I suppose :)
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Member Posts: 461
    I believe Dennis is one up on you at the moment!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    It's good to believe in the product you own I suppose.

    It's good to believe in a product you sell I suppose


    That is a great come back.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    link title

    Here is the link I really think buying a car with ESC/VSC/DSTC/ESP or whatever the manufacture calls it is a must have!! I wish my subaru had it. The article is great for anyone who wants to understand and see how ESC works. They think if all cars had it that vehicle accidents can be reduced by 800,000 a year. Wouldn't that be great if there stats are right. BTW I think its great to love what you bought and what you sell. You guys are SO funny!!!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Thanks for the link socalawd. Though I still think the studies on ESC are somewhat shallow. Having a study that analysis police reports over a 2 year period on vehicles that have ESC and those that don't doesn't seem that accurate to me.ESC prevents accidents. How can you study something that doesn't happen. A study is a lot different than a field test. Give me a field test to where dummies(maybe some of you that frequent these boards :P ) are put in seperate vehicles..one with ESC and one without. Take them around hairpin turns at increasingly higher speeds. Study at what speed and angle each starts to lose control. If the ESC car is still in one piece taking those corners(I'm sure Mac would love that job) while the non-ESC vehicle is wrecked with dummie having life threatening injuries....then and only then will I be sold.

    But, reguardless... I'll still take ESC...just in case. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    How can you study something that doesn't happen.

    Compare it to one that did crash without ESC. I agree it isn't perfect but there seems to be a good trend ;)

    Give me a field test to where dummies(maybe some of you that frequent these boards ) are put in seperate vehicles..one with ESC and one without.

    Ok you got my dummy #1 reporting for duty, heck I'm worth more dead than alive. Please don't tell my wife that!!! :P
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    It's easy to claim "resale value" and "reliability" and not back it up with anything substantial. It's easy to ignore recalls or dismiss em but they're affecting someone out there - whether or not anyone's been hurt.

    I decided to look at the recalls when you said its affecting someone, I thought why not keep track of recalls by number of vehicles affected.

    Here it goes. Honda 4,472(Not really bad consdering they'll sell 180,000 of these this year) Dodge/Chrysler 3,200( Very good considering they'll sell almost 500,000 of these this year) All it takes is a small problem to change the score. So far your ahead but not by much.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I don't think recalls really tell the story. These car companies will recall their van if it could be a life threatening problem. But there are plenty of problems on these vans/car/trucks that should be called back and fixed and they're not. Only because they cost to much. It's like a hidden warranty.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    It's easy to claim "resale value" and "reliability" and not back it up with anything substantial. It's easy to ignore recalls or dismiss em but they're affecting someone out there - whether or not anyone's been hurt.

    I decided to look at the recalls when you said its affecting someone, I thought why not keep track of recalls by number of vehicles affected.

    Here it goes. Honda 4,472(Not really bad consdering they'll sell 180,000 of these this year) Dodge/Chrysler 3,200( Very good considering they'll sell almost 500,000 of these this year) All it takes is a small problem to change the score. So far your ahead but not by much.


    Is this the best way to look at this? This so favors Honda since they sell fewer Minivans. Then look at the variations in the DCX vans....short wheelbase, long wheelbase, 4 cyl, 2 - 6 cyl, individual options available instead of group packages (ability to order power hatch on most models vs only one model on a Honda). I think they still make no window delivery vans!!

    One thing I'm noticing with DCX - their quality is improving due to Daimler!!! And their technology. It's all trickling down from Daimler. The Jeep Libertys supposedly have the highest quality of any small SUV out there?? E class suspension and techology on $25,000 passenger cars - Magnum and 300!!!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "One thing I'm noticing with DCX - their quality is improving due to Daimler!!!"

    NOT SURE!

    M-B is at the bottom of the quality heap while Chrysler is way above. It may be that Chrysler will pull M-B UP!!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    don't think recalls really tell the story. These car companies will recall their van if it could be a life threatening problem. But there are plenty of problems on these vans/car/trucks that should be called back and fixed and they're not. Only because they cost to much. It's like a hidden warranty

    The reason I say recalls don't tell the whole story, is I read yesterday on the Honda site where one or two people had to have an a/c part that Honda had put in the front grill of the van, that can easily be damaged just by a stone bouncing up and hitting it, It cost this one guy almost $900.00 to replace it. Now I wouldn't expect Honda to recall all those vans to move that part some place else, but it sure would be nice if they made a shield to cover it and installed it the first time a person brought their van in for servicing.

    It's just not Honda that I'm complaining about here. Many, or all of these car makers do the same thing. There is something on the vehicles they make that goes wrong and cost a lot of money to fix and they do nothing to fix it it knowing the problem, unless forced.

    For Honda, a shield would be a fairly cheap fix and maybe they will come out with a shield to eliminate the problem. But some things are not so cheap to fix and these manufactures let it go, knowing the person owning the vehicle is going to pay out mega bucks to fix it when it breaks.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I know I wouldn't crow too loud about another company having recalls. All it takes is one news story to quickly turn that around.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I know I wouldn't crow too loud about another company having recalls. All it takes is one news story to quickly turn that around

    Yes, and as we know, that happens a lot. All one needs is to have an employee have a bad day and not do his job right and a lot of vehicles can have a major problem. Seeing that many of the parts put in these vehicles are made some place else, it might not even be the car maker's fault.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A vendor accidently has a bad production run on a part that isn't visable during an inspection....a lot of things can happen.

    And come people will rub their hands together with glee when this happens to another make of car and they will quickly jump to these forums to post the gloomy news. Not me...I know we all live in glass houses.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Just to add to that,I remember reading an article where Chrysler had two major problems with their vehicles. One was brakes and one was electrical. It seems that a company in Mexico sent up a bunch of wiring harnesses with the wrong size plastic covering over the wires. They were not thick enough. When it would rain or get damp out, they would short out the dash lights and some times the vehicles wouldn't even start. It took quite awhile to figure out what was wrong.

    They also had problems with their brakes. Some times when pushing down on the peddle, the brakes would almost go to the floor. Take it into the shop and most of the time it would not duplicate the problem. I hear Chrysler and Bendix spent months trying to figure out the problem. It wound up being a design flaw in the brake design.

    Look how long it took Chrysler to figure out the problem with their transmissions. The problem wouldn't even show up until about 50-60 thousand miles. So for about three years, Chrysler was putting out transmissions that they believed were ok. Then they started to break down. I'm sure it took months to discover it was the fluid being used in the vehicles and probably took at least a year to develop and test another fluid that wouldn't damage parts. Mean while, hundreds of thousands of trannies were out there breaking down.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    You had the tranny shops putting in Dextron in the Chrysler trannies, saying it was compatable when it wasn't.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    I also heard that some garages, even some Honda dealers, are using incompatible, cheaper Dexron tranny fluids in Hondas as well.

    Since I do my own maintenance at my liesure, it will only be Honda tranny fluid I buy from the dealer. No aftermarket wannabe fluids for sure in this case.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    If it meets Honda specifications, why spend 4X more on dealer tranny fluid?
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Do you know this for a fact or are you just guessing?

    I know for as seldom as I would need to buy transmission fluid I wouldn't take a chance on a label that says..." meets Honda specs."

    I would want what I would KNOW is the right stuff even if I have to spend a few more bucks.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    There is not an aftermarket reliable tranny fluid for Hondas that I have heard of. I have heard of some contraptions/mixtures but i would not trust them at all.

    Beside the price differences is not that large. I bought genuine Honda dealer tranny oil at $3.96/qt. I believe that Dexron at the dealer would cost about $1 less - you may get it a bit cheaper at a parts store. The savings over 6 - 8 qts are not worth wirting home about. I believe that DGC owners should also use genuine Chrysler tranny oil as well given the past problems attributable to the oil(Dexron?) used.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Yes and more money for the dealer which will keep isellhondas employed. :)

    I happened to notice at the local auto parts chain store that there is even special aftermarket brand "Honda Spec" power steering fluid while for virtually all others brands is a one fits all generic product.

    Honda must use some special additive derived from glands located behind the front legs of the japanese beetle. :P
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    No isell...I don't guess. Though sometimes I may not entirely recollect correctly. :blush: I purchased CERTIFIED GM antifreeze(pink or maybe it was yellow? 60k or maybe 100k miles?) for my Buick hot rod for $28 a gallon...thinking as you have stated....why not spend a few more bucks for the good stuff. Saw pretty much the same thing at Target for $7. Why spend $10 on Bayer aspirin when you can get Walgreens or generic for half that. It is the exact same thing.
    Don;'t see how using fluid that says "meets Honda specs" could be taking a chance.

    You work at a dealership...you know how much they mark all that stuff up.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have nothing to do with our parts dept.

    Use whatever you want. I'll spend a few extra dollars.

    If you were buying a used car would you want one I've fussed over or one the previous owner always tried to save a buck on?

    For crying out loud...how often do you buy ATF or power steering fluid anyway?

    And, yeah, you did guess. You assumed the price differential between GM antifreeze and Honda antifreeze is the same.

    " Pretty much the same thing" ? I rest my case.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I agree with Isell, how often do you have to change tranny fluid? The owner's manual for our 2004 Civic, says use only Honda fluid. Learn something from previous Chrysler owners, put in what the manual calls for and quit trying to save $10.00 bucks. Is the wrong fluid worth a $3,000.00 tranny job or doing without your van for days while it's being fixed??
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I purchased CERTIFIED GM antifreeze(pink or maybe it was yellow? 60k or maybe 100k miles?) for my Buick hot rod for $28 a gallon...thinking as you have stated....why not spend a few more bucks for the good stuff. Saw pretty much the same thing at Target for $7. Why spend $10 on Bayer aspirin when you can get Walgreens or generic for half that. It is the exact same thing.
    Don;'t see how using fluid that says "meets Honda specs" could be taking a chance.


    Looking over the Civic's owner's manual, I see we don't have to change the antifreeze for over 100,000 miles. It says once again only use Honda antifreeze. Now I'm sure I could buy antifreeze that is compatible with Honda's but would it last 1000,000 miles? Would I be saving in the long run?

    I'm taking no chances with the fluid I put in my tranny. I'll pay the Chrysler dealers a few bucks extra to do it, than what these tranny shops charge. But I'll know they used Chrysler fluid and filters like the owner's manuals stresses to put in the trannies. I can afford to fix it, but that's not what I want to spend my money on.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    that maybe, just maybe, Honda's tranny fluid is superior to Dodge's!!!!! But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the electrical connectors used by Honda are inferior to what's used on DCXs. When you have electrical gremlins, don't come running to me :)

    iselltycoconnectors
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Because Hondas don't have electrical problems. If you want electrical problems, buy a european car!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Agreed.

    BMWs, M-Bs, Jaguars are notorius for electrical problems.

    At one time, it was "if it rains, it won't start or it would stall"
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Hmmmm really???? I deal with the supplier of Clusters and HVAC modules to Honda and know of a few issues on the new Ridgeline and Oddys. There's a problem with the driver LCD display due to a Iriso connector. The displays are tending to blank out due to vibration. Not good. DCX had same problem on last gen Minivans (96-00).

    The European mfg you want to avoid is Jag, for electrical problems!!!!!!!!! BMW and DCX lead with electrical integration of their vehicles. Ever hear of MOST? - a fiberoptic network first used on 7 series BMWs, now 5s, X3s and 3s. Very impressive when you realize the reduction in wiring, crimps and terminals, and the huge increase in performance.
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