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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
The link that you provided was about an Ody owner who wanted to remove the 3rd row seats so he had the well space for a trip, without having to use a roof box. He could fold his 3rd row seats if he wanted, but wanted the space, but not the seats. That's why, when you titled it "Should anyone tell them about Stow-n-go?", I thought that you meant the seats were removable in the DC vans. :confuse:
With Stow-N-Go he has the space and can have the seats too, if wanted. There is about 3/4 of the room under the second row seats that there is in the well behind the third row seats. He would have all the storage he wanted without taking out any seats. He could stow or not stow the third row seats.
It's obvious that there is a number of Honda people that don't have enough room and are either taking their seats out, or putting up a roof box.
But for folks who are involved in heavy trade work activites or get their jollies scouting garage sales and flea markets, it may come in handy to pick more junk to add to their collection.
Believe it or not macakava, most of the owners of 2005 Dodge/Chrysler vans didn't buy them for work or going around to flea markets to pick up more junk. They had enough sense to see the advantage of Stow-n-Go for carrying families and the things families take with them. The advantage of going on vacation and having all the room they need to carry the stuff they need. The advantage of unexpectedly finding something at the store or at a flea market and being able to take it home with them now.
Now you and some other Honda/Toyota owners might have the money to waste always buying new, or having things delivered, or paying thousands of dollars more for a van that you think gives you that status you think you get by buying only Japanese vehicles. But Chrysler owners are a little more frugal with our money. We look for value and want a van that does everything we want it to do. It's things like that that allows me and the wife to take a 19 day trip to Ireland, England and Scotland in Oct. If you send me your address, I would be more than happy to send you a card from there.
I like this lively conversation, if we can just keep it from getting personal. I am in no way trying to make anyone feel bad or threatened, and doubt I am, when I make comments about these vehicles(although most of you are Type-A people from what I can see, and also enjoy a debate). keep up the good work, as I am glad to hear that Chrysler may finally be getting their act together as far as reliability goes. Is it just me, or does the conversation tend to be repeating every few days???
She said she paid to have a timing belt put in. Not sure when Honda went to a chain. I think her car is about 5-6 years old, but not sure. She is in New Jersey visiting her daughter now. I don't think our 2004 Civic has one, but I would have to wait till the boss comes home to check the owners manual.
Glad your enjoying the debate. It can get lively at times but there is no hard feelings on my part with anyone. It just feels good to be able to say things about my Dodge that that is true, that a lot of previous Dodge/Chrysler people couldn't say about their's, some years ago. It really does look like Chrysler has their act together finally. Just seems like no one is complaining about the 2005. Very little about the 2004 either. As a matter of fact, it seems like many of the complaints really slacked off after the 2001's.
I can't say I don't get a lot of satisfaction in proving to some Honda owners, that the van they have, isn't the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. And I know it's killing some not to see a bunch of Dodge/Chrysler owners complain about their 2005's
From my frequent business travels over the past 20 years which includes trips to Europe and the Far East, I have accumulated so much frequent flyer miles, hotel and car rental points that I have been able to take my family of 5 on free vacations(flights, hotels and car covered) about twice a year to locations like Hawaii and the exotic Far East.
I still have another 750,000 +miles left, 5 free tickets with Southwest, and free hotel stays that I have to use up. These 5 SW ticket will take us to Las Vegas soon and I guess that we can plan to go aboard afterwards. What a life!
I did that 8+ years ago. The Vegas to Reno will be the most barren desolate part of the trip - about 250+ miles of desert - so be prepared.
You should check out other Honda boards....that's a load of fun!! Smugness is great to prick with a pin now and then!!! (well, it usually takes a large nail to burst some of these people).
Hey, I forgot something too.....DCX's 7year/70k mile warranty!!!! Lower price, less recalls and issues, less trips to dealer, better peace of mind
All Civics use a timing belt good for 105,000 miles in 1997 and newer cars.
Ahhhh yeah, all those wonderful business trips - nights away from wife and family. No thanks, the FF miles aren't worth the aggravation at airports, delays flights, missing family events etc... been there, done that and never again. There's much more to life than fancy vacation, trying to compensate family for missing real things.
Want to guess WHY DCX went to that 70K/7 year warranty?
I'm retired, but the wife still works. If I knew retirement would be this good, I'd have gotten her a second job and retired 10 years earlier.
The Vegas to Reno will be the most barren desolate part of the trip - about 250+ miles of desert - so be prepared.
Be prepared? Any place I go outside of Phoenix is desert. That's why I got the Dodge, I wanted something I could depend on getting me through the desert. I can't always afford to fly.ha,ha.
This coming from a guy that sells Hondas.....this should be good!!
Dennis, it isn't that bad. My wife goes on business trips about twice a year. It gives me more time to drive my DGC and watch the television shows I want. And...
I'm trying very hard to temper my responses to you. You continue to harp on the same things.
Yes, Honda had some transmission problems. They recognized this and took action. Their transmission problems pale in comparison to the trans problems Chrysler has had and I think you know that.
The 7/70 warranty was put in place in an attempt to restore faith in a lackluster product. Check the CR ratings and see for yourself.
Hopefully they are on the right track now.
Yes, Honda had some transmission problems. They recognized this and took action. Their transmission problems pale in comparison to the trans problems Chrysler has had and I think you know that.
The 7/70 warranty was put in place in an attempt to restore faith in a lackluster product. Check the CR ratings and see for yourself.
same thing?? LOL....me?? I brought up the warranty benefits of DCX's. You wanna talk trannys...go right ahead, but it's a little like the pot calling the kettle black. I just assume Hondas never have any issues, they're sooo great!!!! Was Honda's warranty extension to 100k miles to restore faith in a lackluster product?
It's good to believe in the product you own I suppose.
Carry on...
It's good to believe in a product you sell I suppose
It's good to believe in a product you sell I suppose
That is a great come back.
Here is the link I really think buying a car with ESC/VSC/DSTC/ESP or whatever the manufacture calls it is a must have!! I wish my subaru had it. The article is great for anyone who wants to understand and see how ESC works. They think if all cars had it that vehicle accidents can be reduced by 800,000 a year. Wouldn't that be great if there stats are right. BTW I think its great to love what you bought and what you sell. You guys are SO funny!!!
But, reguardless... I'll still take ESC...just in case.
Compare it to one that did crash without ESC. I agree it isn't perfect but there seems to be a good trend
Give me a field test to where dummies(maybe some of you that frequent these boards ) are put in seperate vehicles..one with ESC and one without.
Ok you got my dummy #1 reporting for duty, heck I'm worth more dead than alive. Please don't tell my wife that!!! :P
I decided to look at the recalls when you said its affecting someone, I thought why not keep track of recalls by number of vehicles affected.
Here it goes. Honda 4,472(Not really bad consdering they'll sell 180,000 of these this year) Dodge/Chrysler 3,200( Very good considering they'll sell almost 500,000 of these this year) All it takes is a small problem to change the score. So far your ahead but not by much.
I decided to look at the recalls when you said its affecting someone, I thought why not keep track of recalls by number of vehicles affected.
Here it goes. Honda 4,472(Not really bad consdering they'll sell 180,000 of these this year) Dodge/Chrysler 3,200( Very good considering they'll sell almost 500,000 of these this year) All it takes is a small problem to change the score. So far your ahead but not by much.
Is this the best way to look at this? This so favors Honda since they sell fewer Minivans. Then look at the variations in the DCX vans....short wheelbase, long wheelbase, 4 cyl, 2 - 6 cyl, individual options available instead of group packages (ability to order power hatch on most models vs only one model on a Honda). I think they still make no window delivery vans!!
One thing I'm noticing with DCX - their quality is improving due to Daimler!!! And their technology. It's all trickling down from Daimler. The Jeep Libertys supposedly have the highest quality of any small SUV out there?? E class suspension and techology on $25,000 passenger cars - Magnum and 300!!!
NOT SURE!
M-B is at the bottom of the quality heap while Chrysler is way above. It may be that Chrysler will pull M-B UP!!
The reason I say recalls don't tell the whole story, is I read yesterday on the Honda site where one or two people had to have an a/c part that Honda had put in the front grill of the van, that can easily be damaged just by a stone bouncing up and hitting it, It cost this one guy almost $900.00 to replace it. Now I wouldn't expect Honda to recall all those vans to move that part some place else, but it sure would be nice if they made a shield to cover it and installed it the first time a person brought their van in for servicing.
It's just not Honda that I'm complaining about here. Many, or all of these car makers do the same thing. There is something on the vehicles they make that goes wrong and cost a lot of money to fix and they do nothing to fix it it knowing the problem, unless forced.
For Honda, a shield would be a fairly cheap fix and maybe they will come out with a shield to eliminate the problem. But some things are not so cheap to fix and these manufactures let it go, knowing the person owning the vehicle is going to pay out mega bucks to fix it when it breaks.
Yes, and as we know, that happens a lot. All one needs is to have an employee have a bad day and not do his job right and a lot of vehicles can have a major problem. Seeing that many of the parts put in these vehicles are made some place else, it might not even be the car maker's fault.
And come people will rub their hands together with glee when this happens to another make of car and they will quickly jump to these forums to post the gloomy news. Not me...I know we all live in glass houses.
They also had problems with their brakes. Some times when pushing down on the peddle, the brakes would almost go to the floor. Take it into the shop and most of the time it would not duplicate the problem. I hear Chrysler and Bendix spent months trying to figure out the problem. It wound up being a design flaw in the brake design.
Look how long it took Chrysler to figure out the problem with their transmissions. The problem wouldn't even show up until about 50-60 thousand miles. So for about three years, Chrysler was putting out transmissions that they believed were ok. Then they started to break down. I'm sure it took months to discover it was the fluid being used in the vehicles and probably took at least a year to develop and test another fluid that wouldn't damage parts. Mean while, hundreds of thousands of trannies were out there breaking down.
Since I do my own maintenance at my liesure, it will only be Honda tranny fluid I buy from the dealer. No aftermarket wannabe fluids for sure in this case.
I know for as seldom as I would need to buy transmission fluid I wouldn't take a chance on a label that says..." meets Honda specs."
I would want what I would KNOW is the right stuff even if I have to spend a few more bucks.
Beside the price differences is not that large. I bought genuine Honda dealer tranny oil at $3.96/qt. I believe that Dexron at the dealer would cost about $1 less - you may get it a bit cheaper at a parts store. The savings over 6 - 8 qts are not worth wirting home about. I believe that DGC owners should also use genuine Chrysler tranny oil as well given the past problems attributable to the oil(Dexron?) used.
I happened to notice at the local auto parts chain store that there is even special aftermarket brand "Honda Spec" power steering fluid while for virtually all others brands is a one fits all generic product.
Honda must use some special additive derived from glands located behind the front legs of the japanese beetle. :P
Don;'t see how using fluid that says "meets Honda specs" could be taking a chance.
You work at a dealership...you know how much they mark all that stuff up.
Use whatever you want. I'll spend a few extra dollars.
If you were buying a used car would you want one I've fussed over or one the previous owner always tried to save a buck on?
For crying out loud...how often do you buy ATF or power steering fluid anyway?
And, yeah, you did guess. You assumed the price differential between GM antifreeze and Honda antifreeze is the same.
" Pretty much the same thing" ? I rest my case.
Don;'t see how using fluid that says "meets Honda specs" could be taking a chance.
Looking over the Civic's owner's manual, I see we don't have to change the antifreeze for over 100,000 miles. It says once again only use Honda antifreeze. Now I'm sure I could buy antifreeze that is compatible with Honda's but would it last 1000,000 miles? Would I be saving in the long run?
I'm taking no chances with the fluid I put in my tranny. I'll pay the Chrysler dealers a few bucks extra to do it, than what these tranny shops charge. But I'll know they used Chrysler fluid and filters like the owner's manuals stresses to put in the trannies. I can afford to fix it, but that's not what I want to spend my money on.
iselltycoconnectors
BMWs, M-Bs, Jaguars are notorius for electrical problems.
At one time, it was "if it rains, it won't start or it would stall"
The European mfg you want to avoid is Jag, for electrical problems!!!!!!!!! BMW and DCX lead with electrical integration of their vehicles. Ever hear of MOST? - a fiberoptic network first used on 7 series BMWs, now 5s, X3s and 3s. Very impressive when you realize the reduction in wiring, crimps and terminals, and the huge increase in performance.