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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Any repairs or modifications that saturday mechanics would like to do would be almost impossible with fiberoptics vs hard wiring. Special tools/equipment needed.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Perfect application for Stow N Go today!!! I was at lunch with coworker and she noted I had my Minivan instead of my company car. She's been looking at patio sets at Home Depot, had just broken up with bf who has truck, but now couldn't pick one up. I drove her to Home Depot str8 from restaurant, we flipped the seats flat and everything fit. If I had a Honda, I would have first needed to drive home, lift heavy seats out, put em someplace, drove back, and repeated steps!! Probably saved an hour of time here!

    Not Shabby!!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Denny,

    Now that she has broken up with bf, I guess that you could find other "liesure opportunities" with her using Sto & Go!

    Marine has some good suggestions... :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    You're totally wrong, tools/equipment are not anymore, possibly even easier, than typical crimping tools for wire to use!!! We have a tool that strips, and cuts the POF (plastic optical fiber) so professionally, even polishing isn't required. The cutting tool rotates after each and every cut to insure smooth ends. I would say a backyard mechanic will be able to handle POF as easy as wire, and I see in the future where you run to Radio Shack to pick up a $5 tool, some ferrules and POF! We currently sell the tools for about $300.

    And consider this......most radio/cluster/climate modules have anywhere from 26-50 wires/terminals. Have you ever reworked a wiring harness????

    When you think of all the electronics being put in automobiles....DVDs, Computers, Nav, realtime traffic, gameboxes, backup cameras, blindspot detection, cruise with distance control, then think of the speed of what these items operate at....wiring will be history for many systems.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Looks like someone got schooled. If you had a Honda you coulda said hey that won't fit in my car LOL. Can you tell me how big the table was?? My wife took a crib down to Sandiego this weekend and all we had to do was drop the MAGIC SEAT. I know it better to have a clone and not the original. Hope she finds more stuff for you to haul. BTW are you married one girl telling me what to do is enough!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Now that she has broken up with bf, I guess that you could find other "liesure opportunities" with her using Sto & Go!

    No way!!! She carries a gun and currently hates all men!!! NO THANKS!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Looks like someone got schooled. If you had a Honda you coulda said hey that won't fit in my car LOL. Can you tell me how big the table was?? My wife took a crib down to Sandiego this weekend and all we had to do was drop the MAGIC SEAT. I know it better to have a clone and not the original. Hope she finds more stuff for you to haul. BTW are you married one girl telling me what to do is enough!!!

    Guys, my wife would probably borrow coworker's gun and use it on me!!!!

    The table was rectangular....4' x 7', with 6 chairs, umbrella and base. Very nice set....$500 and made in China of course!!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Did it change shapes?......nevermind....

    A few years ago I actually sold a pickup we owned as an "extra" car. Neighbors and friends kept asking to borrow it. Worse, they usually wanted me along to help unload heavy furniture, rocks etc.

    Finally enough was enough.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "at lunch with coworker and she..."

    Taking female co-workers to lunch? Going out of your way to run errands for female co-worker on company time? You gonna need that stow-n-go when your
    wife kicks you out and you need somewhere to keep all your junk. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    When your wife kicks you out and you need somewhere to keep all your junk

    Amen brother!! I'll tell ya I'm a FSE and had caravans for 10 years as company cars. The one thing I hated was taking out the seats to get a part from the airport and then having to put them in when all my friends wanted to go to Vegas, camping, etc. Heck I used the second row as a love seat when I was 20 for about 2 years. If I was to buy another van for work I'd get the GC SE with stow and go. After 5 years at my job and 100,000 miles it dosen't matter what brand it was when it started. But for now my subie wagon fits the bill quite nicely. :P
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    I still don't think many backyard mechanics would be capable or have/buy the tools to do fiber repairs. Hardwiring is much simpler and does not require any special tools.

    Back in the 1980's I used to work with mainframe computers which had several PCB backpanels each with over 10,000 wire wrap terminal connections. Troubleshooting was a severe challenge with 6 of these backpanels with over 60,000 wired connections!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Idon't do wires and I don't do windows.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I still don't think many backyard mechanics would be capable or have/buy the tools to do fiber repairs. Hardwiring is much simpler and does not require any special tools.

    I'm talking a tool that's actually easier to use then terminal crimpers. Now if you're talking about a guy using a pocket knife to strip insulation and crimping terminals with a pair of pliers....no. But if you're using hand crimper/stripper....MOST is way easier!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Well I worked on tools that have lots of wiring harnesses and never had a problem rebuilding them. A few year ago one of our ion implanters went to fiber optics with a standard interface at each controller/power supply. This was great since the tool has a voltage potential of 250KeV. If you double ionize the atom your implanting it gives it twice the potential. Well it was daisey chained and when some unsuspecting fool would bend the fiber and I'd lose com from there down the line. I couldn't repair it so I had to order the right length and wait. Now POF seems fine but like other fiber optics its probably got its limitations. Let me think maximum bend, max transmission speed/max lenght(because it plastic probably not as good as standard fiber) and plastic(what the melting point of this stuff 100C maybe) Hey I love change but let someone else do the grunt work and after all the bugs are out move in for the kill.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Agreed.

    That was what Iwas tryin to say - Saturday mechanics are not ready for fiber work/repairs at this time.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    They're long term testing the new Oddy, so-so gas mileage and power sliding door issues. Just FYI
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Sorry to burst isell's bubble but my friend just dumped his 2002 Honda Accord to get a new Toyota Camry after having many problems recently with 55,000 miles on the odometer...nowhere near the 150,000 - 250,000 miles that many Honda lovers would like us to believe.
    I have read of far more problems with the Honda Odyssey in the Town Hall than problems with any other minivan made within the past 6 years. :sick:
    I had planned to get a NEW Honda Odyssey after reading the glowing reviews for so many years but the numerous problems including the many reports of transmission problems has cooled off my interest in purchasing an Odyssey.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Fear not and do not let these past issues deny you the joys of a superior perfoming/handling vehicle.

    Tranny problems have been addressed to 2004 Odys built to Dec 2003 and first year 2005 bugs would be addressed by now or for 2006 models. If it would give you better peace of mind, wait till mid 2006 to get your Ody.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    If it would give you better peace of mind, wait till mid 2006 to get your Ody.

    I'm soooo confused here!!!!!! Aren't all Hondas far superior to ANYTHING on the road???

    Then I check all the Oddy sites and there's tons of problems...too numerous to list any more!!!! I posted on the DCX looking for people with issues on the DCX Minivans....none so far. None even close to Oddy issues like doors that don't open, or won't close once open, or poor design of condensor location (was this Honda's firs automobile??), radio reception, brakes.....Sorry, I'm listing them but my fingers are getting tired from all the typing.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    It is called the growth curve of any new product or model - a known entity in the manufacturing industry. Simply called, "growing pains". No one is immune to it.

    Having been in the engineering/manufacturing/quality industry for almost 30 yrs, it is something that is difficult/impossible to avoid, especially in any first year model.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I think the thing to remember reguarding the number of Ody posts versus the number of DCX post....is that Ody owners love to post ( both the positive and negative) while Chrysler owners rarely post in comparison(except for a few that post all the time).I wouldnt try to make to much of a correlation in reliability between the two based solely on the number of complaints.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I think the thing to remember reguarding the number of Ody posts versus the number of DCX post....is that Ody owners love to post ( both the positive and negative) while Chrysler owners rarely post in comparison(except for a few that post all the time).I wouldnt try to make to much of a correlation in reliability between the two based solely on the number of complaints.

    I think that's true to a point. But I think you also have to admit, that there are very few complaining on the 2005 Chrysler/Dodges. As a matter of fact, not many complaints after 2001.

    But I think people also must realize the Ody is a new minivan and your always going to have some problems with a new model. There is no way designers can foresee all the problems that will crop up.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "But I think you also have to admit, that there are very few complaining..."

    Sure...there are few complaints on 2005 Chrysler/Dodges in the Edmunds board. I'm with you in hoping it is because there are no problems to complain about. To know for sure we'll just have to wait till the all knowing, perfect clinical methodology,doesn't take a penny from advertisers...Consumer Reports, comes out with their next car reliability study. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Sure...there are few complaints on 2005 Chrysler/Dodges in the Edmunds board. I'm with you in hoping it is because there are no problems to complain about. To know for sure we'll just have to wait till the all knowing, perfect clinical methodology,doesn't take a penny from advertisers...Consumer Reports, comes out with their next car reliability study.

    Not just the Edmond board. It's the same on the Chrysler fan club forum. Here is a post from it.No one is complaining there either and it's strickly a Chrysler/Dodge board.

    patrick30
    Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 26

    2005 SXT Post

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Had the 2005 GC SXT with Stow-n- Go for eight months now

    Nothing to post about- I'm bored...

    14K so far, Had the oil changed as needed, rotated the tires, the headlights are actually useful (had a '96). Only wish that I sprung for the infinity stereo.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I'd put much more stock in Chryslers van reliability coming from the Chrysler Fan Club forum...than from Edmunds. I think Chrysler people would be more likely to post problems they are having at the Chrysler forum...than at Edmunds, where they would get flamed by all those Ody owners. I can see those Ody owners now....just salavating...waiting for something to go wrong with Chrysler vans. ;)

    If Chrysler spiced up those interiors a bit...I would buy one.Reliability being the only reason it wasn't on my list in my 2004 purchase.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    You'd have to think, since DCX sells about twice as many minivans as Honda, and since Hondas are sooo great, that the number of DCX issues/complaints etc.. would be 4 times greater. Where are they???
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    You'd have to think, since DCX sells about twice as many minivans as Honda, and since Hondas are sooo great, that the number of DCX issues/complaints etc.. would be 4 times greater. Where are they???

    wouldn't think that!! Look in 2 year for prices paid and buying experience there's 46 post in the DCX board. So with your reasoning DCX vans should have twice as many posts as Honda Vans. Now this has nothing to do with anything but buying a van and what you paid. The Honda board has almost 10,000(over 5000 in the last 2 years). It's just that DCX vans don't inspire owners like honda vans do, like other DCX owners have said they think a minivan is like a toaster!! I never posted a problem with my dodge. Heck I expected all that happened to me. Now if I had a problem with my Odyssey everyone will know. BTW Sedona was awesome. All the picture I have seen are not even close and the sunsets WOW!! Everything worked properly no AC problems,wind noise, and my back felt great except for the one night I stayed at a hilton in phoenix beds are TOO soft(sorry for that report guys). Got about 24.5 MPG overall still have to figure the last tank still half full. Never had a better trip with the kids, in febuary we went to Yosemite in the Caravan man was that rough. We talked listened to CD's and from Goodyear to Indio they watched DVD's. I drove 7 hours and I could do it tomorrow. I will tell you what I know about DCX reliability compared to Honda. I will use CR because thats all I got. Just like KBB is all you got for resale value.

    DCX
    1999-Average
    2000-Below Average
    2001-Below Average
    2002-Below Average
    2003-Average
    2004-Average

    Honda Odyssey
    1999- Average
    2000- Above Average
    2001- Above Average
    2002- Average
    2003- Above Average
    2004- Above Average

    Wow the honda does look pretty good ;)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    One has to wonder how Honda gets a Above Average in 2003 and 2004 and Dodge gets an Average. Both had two recalls, Honda on their transmission and fuel pumps and Dodge on fuel filter and power steering hose.Neither had a below average on anything they were graded on.Most were above average. Honda get's a better than average grade on transmissions, even though they had a recall on them two years in a row. While I consider a power steering hose serious, I wouldn't consider a fuel filter as serious as a fuel pump or a transmission.How you can have a recall on transmissions two years in a row and still mark transmissions better than average? Doesn't make one lick of sense to me.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Has nothing to do with recalls marine it's all about customer problems rates and then they are compared in the 14 trouble spots with extra wieght going to engine/cooling/transmission /and drivetrain. I fill them out for all my cars every year, you do too right???. So even after all the complaining that goes on for Honda it seems to me the Dodge's have more issues per car. A safty recall can have nothing to do with reliabilty its a issue that needs to be fixed so that a problem doesn't turn into a bad situation(crash). I'll tell you what I've never seen a board more obsessed with recalls. It like there's some recall fetish going on here!! A recall dosen't count as a problem if nothing happens. I had a 1995 dodge intrepid that the tranny went(at 60,000 miles)when I was going 65 of the freeway the front wheels locked up then the car stalled I thought I a goner. That tranmission recall was due to insufficent lubrication. There was only one known problem with no injuries.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Has nothing to do with recalls marine it's all about customer problems rates and then they are compared in the 14 trouble spots with extra wieght going to engine/cooling/transmission /and drivetrain. I fill them out for all my cars every year, you do too right???.

    True, but most auto companies don't recall their product unless there is either a safety issue or a lot of complaints on a part not working as it should .I don't think Chrysler or Honda either one would have put on extended warranties on their trannies, if they had not had a lot of complaints on them.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    wouldn't think that!! Look in 2 year for prices paid and buying experience there's 46 post in the DCX board. So with your reasoning DCX vans should have twice as many posts as Honda Vans. Now this has nothing to do with anything but buying a van and what you paid. The Honda board has almost 10,000(over 5000 in the last 2 years)

    I believe the reason for having so many more Honda Ody. post about Price Paid and Buying Experience is because there is a higher demand for the Ody. to which is you remember back in 2001 and 2002 you had to wait a few months for an Ody. Which ment that people were paying over MSRP and Honda with the attitude of take it or leave it. Honda owners are so happy it seems to be able to buy an Ody for under MSRP that they have to tell others about it which is new compared to the past. I think what you should do is see how many of those 5000 post in the last 2 years is for pricing and experience.

    As for Daimlerchrysler only having 46 post in the last two years. I believe it's probably because most, if not all, Daimlerchrylser owners are able to buy a minivan a few thousand dollars under MSRP which isn't new. Also, I believe that Daimlerchrysler dealers are more customer friendly then Honda dealers from what I've read here on Edmunds and again this is not new. :shades:
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    Has nothing to do with recalls marine it's all about customer problems rates and then they are compared in the 14 trouble spots with extra wieght going to engine/cooling/transmission /and drivetrain. I fill them out for all my cars every year, you do too right???.

    So then, you know that more then half of the people that fill these questioners out are not mechanics and the questions, from what I've read, are very generic and not specific to a particular part. Using peoples opinions and saying they are fact is not my idea of how reliable a vechicle is. Perfect example. We own a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire which has over 79K and a 2001 DGC EX with over 61K. Just last year the check engine light came on in our DGC and stayed on for a few days. Took it to the dealer and they said the gas cap needed to be replaced which total cost was a little under a hundred bucks. We've had our Sunfire for about 7 years and have never had to replace the gas cap nor has the check engine light come on. Now comparing both of our vechicles with the gas cap problem, one might say that our Sunfire in this area is more reliable then our DGC because the van is newer. But the truth of the matter is that since our DGC is three years newer then our Sunfire, it is more likely that our van has more sensors to detect stuff going wrong then our Sunfire.

    Another thing about CR, and I do read them, is that they go by how many questionaries they receive back from those that subscribe to them as to see how reliable a vechicle is. Since Daimlerchrysler sales over 300 thousand minivans a year, lets say that only CR receives only 100 thousand responses regarding Daimlerchrysler minivans. That means there are still 200 thousand owners unaccounted for. So in reality, CR is only using the responses from the 100 thousand then the total vechicles sold for that year. :shades:
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    As for Daimlerchrysler only having 46 post in the last two years. I believe it's probably because most, if not all, Daimlerchrylser owners are able to buy a minivan a few thousand dollars under MSRP which isn't new.

    Come on now! I got my EXL-RES for 3 grand under MSRP. If I was looking for a van I would want to pay the least amount I could and help people get a good deal regardless of MSRP. If they will sell 300,000 why are there 100 times the amount of interest in Honda vans it's probably a demographic thing. BTW I do read the posts on the prices paid and try to help people if I can. I bought my Dodge at Ceritos Dodge it was the WORSE car buying experience. They did the bait and switch and then it took 6 hours to get to the original price I was quoted. I shoulda left.Then I got home and I paid 200.00 more then I thought I should have paid. I looked over the contract and they chared me 200.00 for window scribing which I told them 3 times I didn't want. Oh well my honda was less than a hour and a half, and got it for invoice+180.00+50.00 doc.fee+tax and licence and nothing else. Maybe DCX owners are just embarrassed by the experience I know I was!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Since Daimlerchrysler sales over 300 thousand minivans a year, lets say that only CR receives only 100 thousand responses regarding Daimlerchrysler minivans. That means there are still 200 thousand owners unaccounted for. So in reality, CR is only using the responses from the 100 thousand then the total vechicles sold for that year.

    The same can be said of the honda van. Statistically it all evens out. When you do a poll do they poll everyone of course not!! But, you can get within a few percent. If hondfa is SOOO bad why do they have much better satisfaction and reliability ratings. Anyone can say the product is more reliable but I posted some real data. Anyone got something that isn't LOOK HOW MANY POSTS!!!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Agree.

    A poll is a small percentage(say under 10%) from which they can project/predict the outcome/trend of the whole population with a high confidence(say 80+%) of accuracy.

    This is used in many applications. Another good example is the estimate of TV viewership of certain programs and networks.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I get CR also and I think CR is bias towards domestic vehicles. In the March issue they evaluated Honda, Toyota, Dodge GC and Saturn Relay. For reliability, they said the Saturn was to new to evaluate. But with Honda, they gave it a better than average evaluation even though the Honda is completely new also.

    With the Dodge, they complained about many of the controls being busy. Can anyone explain what busy controls are?

    Then they say Dodge didn't have height-adjustable arm rests. Not explaining that neither did Toyota or Saturn.

    They said it was awkward to fold the front row seats, when there is only one lever and one strap to pull and they fold in easily when the front seats are moved up.

    CR said the Dodge GC is nosier than the top rated minivans. Chrysler says it is quieter than any minivan they have made. Auto.Com, says,

    " Driving Impressions ,
    These are smooth, quiet vehicles, particularly when measured by minivan standards. Additional sound-deadening measures have been added for 2005 that reduce wind noise

    CU says they said the ride can be unsettling over uneven services or in bumpy corners. That at highway speeds the ride can be unsettling and a bit floaty.

    Auto.com, says,"Ride quality is supple and well-controlled on the highway. The rack-and-pinion steering responds nicely and provides good feedback through the steering wheel. The Grand Caravan tracks true at highway speeds, so there's no need for constant, minor steering corrections. Indeed, the Dodge Grand Caravan offers superb driving dynamics. Grand Caravan rides more softly than an SUV, gliding over potholes rather than trying to beat them into submission. It's an excellent choice when transporting passengers on beat up freeways and bumpy urban streets..

    The two are not even close on their driving experience. But CR's review could turn a lot of people off on the Dodge. I have not read one professional review that complains of the Dodge handling on the highway, the ride, or the interior noise, as CR did.

    While several people on this forum complain of the Dodge middle seats being uncomfortable, CR did not. Also, a Canadian, test driving the Dodge for his paper said, "Despite the fact that the two second row seatbacks are a slim design, they got high-praise from family members who were in them for an hour-plus drive."
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That these topics can get beaten to death in these and other forums and they certainly are!

    If a Chrysler/Honda fan happens to read a favorable review, they will make sure the world knows about it. If, on the other hand, some reviewer/publication knocks the car they own, then what that person said is discredited.

    So, for crying out loud....drive and buy the vehicle that pleases YOU and not some subjective reviewer!

    BTW, I have personally sat in those stow and go seats and I think they are hard, thin and uncomfortable! So have many of my customers.

    But, again, your opinion may vary! But what you like!!
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    If honda is SOOO bad why do they have much better satisfaction and reliability ratings. Anyone can say the product is more reliable but I posted some real data.

    Well, if Honda can only produce 180 thousand per year to Daimlerchrysler's 300 thousand per year, I wouldn't call that a true comparison. (Now if Honda was able to produce as many as Daimlerchrysler, then I can see your point. But they don't) Let's say that CR receives only 80 thousand Honda responses and Daimlerchrysler only 100 thousand. How does that make the Honda more reliable and better satisfaction? When Daimlerchrysler clearly out sold them by 120 million by this scenario. Using this same scenario Honda has 100 thousand owners unaccounted for and Daimlerchrysler has 200 unaccounted for. Also, I heard that CR has about 1 million subscribers. If this is true, then that means that they probably only receive responses of only 1 or 2% of each vechicle from the total number sold, that they give information on. I'd say that this is a very small percentage, for a big margin for error when comparing one make that sales 180 thousand to one that sales 300 thousand. Now you can apply the real numbers to this scenario, if you wish, for each model total sold for that given year. :shades:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    If a Chrysler/Honda fan happens to read a favorable review, they will make sure the world knows about it. If, on the other hand, some reviewer/publication knocks the car they own, then what that person said is discredited.


    Not just that. I would challenge anyone to go look up any professional review and see if they can find the kind of complaints that CR gave the Dodge GC. It's not just picking any good review. No one is saying what CR is saying and CR carries a lot of influence in consumer buying. I also have not read one professional review, or Dodge/Chrysler owner that says the middle seats are uncomfortable.

    Now you may get several reviewers saying one thing and several others saying another. But when there is only one saying it and no one else is complaining or saying just the opposite, something is wrong. That article reeks with bias against the Dodge GC. I pointed them out and showed where others are saying just the opposite. I challenge you to find one that agrees with CR.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Has anyone ever seen the figures of how many responses CR gets back on each vehicle? I haven't. The questionares are only sent to CR subscribers, and sometimes the term "Insuffient data" appears. What is insuffient data? Two replies? 20 replies? or no replies? the CR can become more credible only when they start posting how many replies the ratings are based upon! My two cents worth. I have the same opionion on car magazine testers. Too many people are basing their decisions on the "opionions" of one to four testers who tested one particular model of a vehicle. Since none of the testers share what vehicle they drive, could they be a little biased? The only one who counts is the buyer as he or she is the one laying out the cash for it. Since it is usually the 2nd most expensive purchase anyone will make, It benifits them to look at all the competition, and drive them and purchase the one that suits them best!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Perhaps...I still have the feeling that if CR had been favorable to Chrysler instead of Honda you would be crowing about it now.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Nope!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Well, if Honda can only produce 180 thousand per year to Daimlerchrysler's 300 thousand per year, I wouldn't call that a true comparison

    Its problems per car. SO IT IS A TRUE COMPARISON. After you analyze a small group you get very good statistical view of the product. Anyway statistics isn't something I'd like to try and explain on this forum.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Perhaps...I still have the feeling that if CR had been favorable to Chrysler instead of Honda you would be crowing about it now.


    I have no problem with Honda. They are a good minivan. My complaint with CR is the things they complained about with the Dodge, no one else is. People are saying just the opposite, except for the course engine sound. No one has complained about the Dodge handling on the road or the way it takes bumps, the quietness of it. The way the seats fold into the floor.

    How can you give a van a better than average rating on transmissions when they have had a recall on them two years in a row? How can you say one van can not be rated because it is too new, but rate the Honda better than average, when everything about it is new?

    I am sorry you can't see the bias in these things, I can. As I said before, show me one professional review where anyone agrees with what this guy at CR wrote about the Dodge GC.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Well I'm the toaster guy!!!! M I N I V A N !!!! Point A-B transportation. If you care that much about BMW handling, buy an X5! If racing from stoplights turn you on, buy an Oddy but there's always someone faster out there. I prefer to race my $10k saving$$$ to the bank and park it there.

    I've read people complaining about the front Oddy seats, and one woman selling her 05 cause she couldn't get comfortable in it???? My parents have been in my Stow N Go seats for 5 hours, thought they were as nice as ones in their 2002 Sienna. They're firm like German seats, which usually are better for long travel...not just jumping in them for 10 minutes.

    I only use CR for items they can't "interpret" like 0-60 times, braking etc...hard cold facts!!! CR is sooo biase, you'd have to be blind not to see it.

    Opinions are like A......., everybody has one :) Facts like documented recalls and numerous issues/problems are more important.
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Member Posts: 461
    The Seattletimes.com did an article about Consumer Reports sometime ago and this is part of what they said....

    Consumer Reports needs 100 surveys - the minimum required to provide reliability results.

    Man, you have got to be very good to make a reliability call from just 100 surveys returned. That works out to just 2 returned surveys per state! I believe them, sure, I believe them, sure..... :confuse:
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "Anyway statistics isn't something I'd like to try and explain on this forum."

    Agree. Explaining statistics would be frustrating and self-defeating as it is beyond the comprehension and scope of many/most people.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Hard to believe, but you have to understand statistics which I will not, like Soca, try to explain here.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Most recalls aren't as a result of people having problems. They are to PREVENT potential problems.

    I don't know about **bias**. I do know I've owned cars on their Must to Avoid list and had good luck with these cars.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    Its problems per car. SO IT IS A TRUE COMPARISON.

    So, then every car should have that problem, from what you are saying from those that sent in a CR reply.

    Statistic by definition means -" An estimate of a variable, as an average or mean, made on the basis of a sample taken from a large set of data."

    Fact by definition means - " Something put forth as objectively real."

    Estimate by definition means - "An opinion: judgment."

    It would seem that CR uses estimate which by definition are not facts. Now I'm done with this conversation. Let's get back to Honda Ody vs. Dodge/Chrysler minivans. ;)
This discussion has been closed.