Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

1123124126128129224

Comments

  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    NO WAY. The only reason we may buy a new minivan is because our daughter would like to buy ours and we can afford a new one much more than she can. ;)
    Although we had planned to buy a new Odyssey, there are too many problems with reliability of the Odyssey. Our next van will probably be either a Sienna LE or Grand Caravan SXT....where reliability is a fact and not a myth. ;)
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    are you gonna sell at TMV used value to your daughter?

    your daughter is very smart in terms of letting someone take the big, i mean huge depreciation on a 3 yr old DC van :P
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    One thing I've discovered over the years about reliability ratings...is they don't really amount to much. The difference between the best and worst is usually very small. Even if you look at JD Powers long-term, the difference between their best (lexus) and worst (kia) is two problems in the first three years of ownership. Get into the nitty-gritty and there's very little statistical difference between vehicles these days for reliability. I've not really considered reliability one of my main driving forces behind buying a vehicle since the mid 90's when domestic and import quality were much more obvious.

    And using forums/nhtsa etc. to glean reliability is a pretty unscientific method. NHTSA is quite entertaining to read actually, makes you feel good about yourself. Folks getting beat-up by the folding head-rests in the Caravan :D
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Not to be nit picking here, but I happen to work in Auto industry here in Detroit, Ford only sells about 360K Explorers (adding Sporttrak, and Mercury version). I know DCX sells more than 200K Minivans.

    As far as resale value, that little game is played by only using MRSP prices, not what actual prices paid.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Sure, every manufacturer may have problem vehicles but when CR, C&D, Edmunds, and many experts ANNOINT the Odyssey THE BEST minivan many of the common people wonder
    Meanwhile, the barely acceptable DC minivans just keep outselling all the competition.


    According to sales figures, even though Honda added Oddy capacity, it doesn't look like they'll need it?

    My barely acceptable DC Minivan appears to be getting better or equal mileage, no major recalls and costs thousands less. Lets' not talk about problems the Oddys are having.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,880
    When I watched the news this morning I thought of you. I figured you were dancing with glee when you heard about the airbag recall.

    Yep, another of those horrible recalls where something "could" "possibly" cause a problem.

    Aren't you glad Honda caught this and did something pro-active?

    Guess they don't get any credit for that though...
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Not to be nit picking here, but I happen to work in Auto industry here in Detroit, Ford only sells about 360K Explorers (adding Sporttrak, and Mercury version). I know DCX sells more than 200K Minivans.

    It's good to nitpick, keeps my numbers in check. I don't want to look like old rrrrr or whatever his/her name was that constantly put out bogus numbers.

    I flipped to the wrong page of Automotive News Market Data Book. Explorer and all equivalents sold 406,893; DC vans sold 384,830. I originally pulled the DC numbers from the US production page, which was 201,813. The rest of the DC vans were made in Canada.

    My point stands, they're both high volume bargains that do huge fleet sales. At least in it's hay-day the DC vans could win some awards, I don't think the Explorer ever has.

    No doubt the Dodge vans have a huge owner loyalty. We've owned several over the years and they're fine vans. I think if you just want basic minivan transport, you still can't go wrong with them. But the doo-dads and luxury features put them behind a bit for someone willing to jump ship like myself. I'm not brand loyal at all, I just buy what I like the best at the moment. When Dodge redesigns these, I can see them winning back some awards.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    ROFL

    Caught this??? Pro-Active??? It's been on the market for almost a year?????? You've got to be joking!!!!!!
  • According to sales figures, even though Honda added Oddy capacity, it doesn't look like they'll need it?

    My barely acceptable DC Minivan appears to be getting better or equal mileage, no major recalls and costs thousands less. Lets' not talk about problems the Oddys are having.


    When I made a decision to purchase a minivan I did not place much importance in number of recalls. I have a Honda Accord 2000 that had transmission failure at 40K miles and had the manufacturer replace it free of charge. It is doing great at 80K miles and has never had any other problems. My old 1987 Honda Civic gifted to a friend still rums good at 155K miles, the poor 1990 Subaru got totalled in an accident with a truck at 168 K miles ( through no fault of its own and helped me survive) and my 1989 Camry runs great with 145K miles on it.

    I looked at long term reliability of minivans. Two of my friend’s Town and Country minivans had problems at 80K with transmission and AC failures and they traded them for Toyota minivans. My neighbor complains that he pays more for his 3 year old DC in monthly repair costs than the car payments. I saw him cleaning it on the driveway this weekend in order to prepare and sell it. Even though these are only 3 of the millions of vans sold, these vans have a reputation for long term unreliability. So I decided to go either with a Honda or Toyota. Since the Honda cost me less that a comparably equipped Toyota I bought it.
    Sure, I will go when the Honda recall notice comes and have it checked. I am willing to take my chances on the Honda product like you did on the Dodge. To each his / her own.

    Cheers
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Isell you are in the wrong business, you should be a politician. You managed to spin a recall into a good thing!

    Then again, politicians and car salesmen sometimes seem to get more than their share of bad public perception, so maybe you are in the right business!

    I will agree that issuing a recall is better than ignoring a problem, but that is similar to drilling and filling a tooth to save it from being pulled out later. A recall is the lesser of two evils.

    However, I also don't pay much attention to recalls as a reason to buy or not to buy a vehicle unless they get too excessive for one particular model.

    My number one rule of thumb is to stay away from the first model year of any vehicle design, unless the new model was mostly just a "freshening". Being an engineer by trade, I know that any new design is going to have kinks to be ironed out, no matter how much attention to detail may have occured. At least stay away from the first 6-8 months of production.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I did NOT take a hit on depreciation as I got it last year for about HALF of the MSRP. ;)
    If I sell it to my daughter, it would be for the trade-in value offered by the dealer where we get our new GC SXT, Sienna LE, or Odyssey EX. :)
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Quality in perspective, Factory is like an Apple tree, few apples can turn out to be bad.
    Per JDPowers Longterm Dependability Consumer study, for cars 3 years or older, this is what they found. ( Actual Consumer Survey )
    Brand - Problems Per 100 Vehicles
    Honda - 201
    Toyota -194
    Chrysler - 235
    Average Mechanical Problems
    Expected Per Vehicle per Year for a given brand.
    Honda-2.0
    Toyota-1.9
    Chrysler-2.4
    2005 Odyssey scores below average for the brand, should have more than 2 problems in a given year per vehicle.
    2005 Toyota Sienna scores above average for the brand , should have less than 1.9 problems per vehicle per year.
    2005 Chrysler T&C also scores above average for the brand, should have less than 2.4 problems per year per vehicle.

    Problems can vary from vehicle to vehicle, depends on who is at the line in the Factory ( Really )

    Quality can also be a perception , not a reality, few cusomers, who love their cars, will never accept there is a problem, and may not report the problem.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Between jobs last year, I sold Dodge/Jeeps at a local new car dealership. It certainly put a different "spin" on that profession for me. This dealership is family owned (since the '40s), and treats its customers, and sales staff, like all of us would like to be treated. It was actually a great experience. Our biggest competitor for the Caravan & Grand Caravan was the Honda - no question. Most customers didn't even mention the Toyota, Ford, Mazda, Nissan, etc. I found that most people who came into the dealership had no business shopping for a new car. The majority were either upside down on their loan, or had nothing for a down payment. They seemed to enjoy simply "stroking" the sales personnel.

    My own experience with the Caravan is our 1994 Grand Caravan ES purchased new in July 1994. Basically, it's been very reliable. No engine work over 152K miles, and the original 4-speed ECT automatic. Yes, that is correct, the original transmission! The front pump seal is just now beginning to leak a bit, which most likely will require a rebuild in the short term.

    However, it's other factors which bug the heck out of me with our Caravan. The two motors for the rear vent wings failed almost simultaneously only a couple of years after purchase; the front and rear A/C evaporators have been a constant source of trouble; occasional ABS problems that raise their ugly head, and then go away for some unexplained reason; the flourescent display for the radio/CD player/clock died; intermittent problems with the body computer which contols the gauge package, and most importantly, the paint flaking off the roof and the hood (This one really bothers me - it's totally unacceptable!). On the other hand, the exhaust system is original after 11 years - certainly the longest period of time I've ever owned a vehicle without replacing the exhaust system, and the high-level interior looks new after over a decade of use. And, no suspension problems except for replacement of the front struts at around 90K miles.

    I've used Mobil 1 5W-30 since the inception, and change it religously every 3K miles. And, I change the ATF and filter on the transmission every 20K miles. All in all, it could certainly be worse. Would I buy another DC minivan? That's a good question, I really don't know. It would be a tough call, as it seems other marques are having their share of problems as well.
  • "GC SXT would be much safer since the Ody handles like a sports car and you would be too tempted to drive it irresponsibl"

    LOL! Oddy doesn't even come close to handling like a sports car! It MAY be the best handling minivan, but that does not mean it's anywhere near a sportscar. I've driven both and the Oddy surely isn't even in the same ballpark.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,880
    The Sienna is BY FAR, by biggest competition. I hear very little about people cross shopping Chryslers.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Sounds like an average Caravan. The wing window motors and evaporators were a common problem back then. The evaporators were made by Harrison Radiator, Lockport, New York. Your "gauge" problem was the Central Timing Module perhaps?

    Pump seals leaking at that mileage is very common on any manufacturers transmission. You didn't say if you maintenanced the transmission, but in that year if you have the original shift solenoid pack the fluid must be exceptionally clean. The anti-drain back valves clogging also caused a fair share of transmission failures in those years. Many shops remove them after a rebuild to ensure long term reliability. They should be flushed or replaced at rebuild, but many shops don't.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    Maybe the buyers wanted a van with the Sto-N-Go feature, then the game would be over for the other companies! Can't give something to the customer that you don't have.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    If you really want to depend on the residual prices quoted (they change almost daily), mini-vans in general suffer because they are at or above saturation. Even the sainted Honda and Toyota mini-vans suffer more than their cars and trucks.

    Dusty
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Yeah, I know residuals are based from MSRP. Fine, but with a bit of math you can easily use these figures to calculat a good estimation of where you'll be in 3, 4, 5 years. It works like this:

    MSRP X residual= estimated resale value

    Selling price - estimated resale value= depreciation

    Now, is that the exact figure you'll sell the vehicle for? No, but it's a steady factor for comparison purposes. When I did the math, the Ody came out ahead by a grand or so over 3 years. With employee pricing on the Dodge is about break even. Unless you're one of these folks that can't buy an Ody for close to invoice for some reason.

    Of course if you keep the vehicle forever, it hardly matters. The average ownership is a bit over five years and 80k miles. That means folks like me that trade every two/three years are just as common as the ones that keep them forever.

    As for Vans vs Cars....sure residuals vary between types of vehicles. Most folks don't cross-shop a car and a minivan so that doesn't really amount to much in the scheme of things. I didn't buy a minivan as an investment, but if I can reduce the loss..all the better.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    "As for Vans vs Cars....sure residuals vary between types of vehicles. Most folks don't cross-shop a car and a minivan so that doesn't really amount to much in the scheme of things. I didn't buy a minivan as an investment, but if I can reduce the loss..all the better. "

    I think you missed my point. With Dodge/Chrysler mini-vans being the most popular, it is no surprise that they dominate the used car market supply. Hence the values will be depressed. But this is generally the same for most mini-vans because there are so many of them available for resale. Ventures...and Windstars even worse, suffer from this as well.

    Dusty
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    The reason the Dodge/Ford/GM minivans suffer market saturation isn't necessarily because of consumer popularity, but rental popularity. There are gobs and gobs of these available used within 1-2 years with 20k-30k miles on the clock for dirt cheap. And historically, the Honda/Toyota minivans are very close to their cars in terms of resale. Not sure why minivans took a bit of a hit this year. 2004 Ody/Sienna actually had better residuals than the cars by a point or so. I think big vehicles in general took a hit this year and cars jumped a bit. Either way, that 15% spread between a Grand Caravan and an Ody is a big numer. Bad if buying new. Good if you want a fairly low-mileage "program" car. My family has bought numerous Caravans over the years but never new. Even when the family owned a Dodge dealer, we'd wait on a program car. We'd buy them at the Dodge auction for 50% of sticker with 15k miles on the clock.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Mainstream media is fairly liberal, they love imports. In some cases print outright false information about domestics. Almost every week you will see an article singing death songs for big three (Predicting their demise).

    GM just lifted ad boycott of LATimes (one of the fairly liberal NP), they misrepresented GM product information.

    I am not surprised Edmunds commented on poor quality of DC minivans, actually JDPower initial quality gave them better ratings than Honda, but the media does not believe the facts.

    Blue states (Liberal) V/s Red States (Conservative), this demographic is really true. If you are from Red States you are most likely to own a domestic. If you are from Blue States you are most likely to drive an Import.

    Men in Red states are NASCAR fans and usually love domestic SUV and Trucks.

    Florida and CA have less then 50% retail registrations of Domestic cars, both Blue states.

    Bigthree still rule in the heartland states (Conservative ), Imports rule out west ( Liberal ).
    This demographics is not just a coincidence this is a proven marketing fact.

    And the Main stream Media (Liberal) love imports.
  • I live in a red state that only votes republican and guess what - I see more import vans and cars than I see of the big three. The other day I saw 20 import cars and vans parked outside my friend's apartment window and the domestic number was less than half. Even in trucks I am starting to see a fair number of Nissan and Toyota trucks. The percentages of the domestic autos is coming down in this red state.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Yeah, I know residuals are based from MSRP. Fine, but with a bit of math you can easily use these figures to calculat a good estimation of where you'll be in 3, 4, 5 years. It works like this:

    MSRP X residual= estimated resale value

    Selling price - estimated resale value= depreciation

    Now, is that the exact figure you'll sell the vehicle for? No, but it's a steady factor for comparison purposes. When I did the math, the Ody came out ahead by a grand or so over 3 years. With employee pricing on the Dodge is about break even. Unless you're one of these folks that can't buy an Ody for close to invoice for some reason.


    ***********************************************
    Interesting concept, I tried your math , got interesting results. Thanks.

    Monthly Ownership cost estimates
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Men in Red states are NASCAR fans and usually love domestic SUV and Trucks.

    Florida and CA have less then 50% retail registrations of Domestic cars, both Blue states.

    Bigthree still rule in the heartland states (Conservative ), Imports rule out west ( Liberal ).
    This demographics is not just a coincidence this is a proven marketing fact.

    And the Main stream Media (Liberal) love imports.


    Here we go another person trying to divide the country by politicial party. Well I live in Orange County Ca. Most people here buy import(if you can call them that) I myself have never voted for a Democrat for President. I own a subaru(Built in Indiana) and a Honda(Built in Alabama). You will almost never find someplace more Red than OC. I saw a article in the OC register about cars sales in the OC and a few european cars has a higher percentage than the big 3. I'll try and find the article. Bottom line people buy what they like and can afford! When I was a kid I loved Pontiac(I had a Gran Prix) me and my friends were called team Pontiac(All pontiac owners) Now I am uninspired by the cars(rebadged chevy's) So times change! But if you could please stop all your politicial Spin I would love to talk about the differences between the vans. Not how liberal you THINK the media is and how it affects things!!
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Here, I fixed your numbers and deleted what wasn't important. First of all, you forgot to equip the T&C at the same level as the Ody. Side airbags and six-disc changer are standard on the Ody. I used the numbers from the same place, carsdirect.com which prices the Ody about $1,000 over invoice. Fair enough, cherry on top for the folks like myself that are better bargainers....

    image
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    Well I for one am proud to be a liberal in red state with with two domestic vehicles ... GM product (Olds intrigue) and a DCX product (T&C touring). And guess what ... It would be a cold day in hell before I sat through a NASCAR race.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    This is just a demographic, not a political Spin. You are most likely to buy, not that you will.
    I am a Democrat from a Blue state and own a domestic.
    If you are rural Texas (Red State) and you are a rancher you are most likely to own a Domestic.
    If you are a college professor in Texas - Houston (Urban), you are most likely to own an Import (EU or Japan).

    A researcher counted all the vehicle brands in the parking lot at a Democratic convention, and found that over 60% were Imports. (This is a Marketing fact, comes up in many business school classes).

    NASCAR Dads , and Urban Soccer Moms have a different demograhic.

    Orange County, CA still has close to 50% Domestic registrations. This is where the big three are trying to market their products and spending a lot of marketing dollars.

    Guess where Toyota would like to Focus - Its rural Texas.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Orange County, CA still has close to 50% Domestic registrations. This is where the big three are trying to market their products and spending a lot of marketing dollars.

    Guess where Toyota would like to Focus - Its rural Texas


    Sales for Domestics continue to fall in the OC with the exception of the a few cars(300C/Magnun). Presently the Domestic sales are 33.8% of the market!!Here's a link to the Orange county auto dealer site. All the information you don't seem to know is there!
    link title

    Toyota and other Imports are targeting the heartland by opening up more dealerships in those states Toyota has the market share in 23 of 44 heartland metro areas. The vehicles they build are more geared toward this too!! Look at the Toyota Sequoia and Nissan Titan(A auto mag said this truck plays to the latent Redneck in all of us) Hell if I had a boat! Now this board is about Honda vs DCX vans. I'm a Honda owner but both have upside and downside. I couldn't buy without the VSA(Hopefullt DCX is reading this) The stow and go is a nice feature for alot of people. I don't really need it I liked the bigger DVD screen 9" vs 7". The standard sideairbags and the handling feel(some people think its too jarring). So my advice is to go out and look at each van. If you have any questions we can help you here! We are mostly owners of one brand or the other. I hope someone reading this is really a prospective buyer! Mostly I think we do it for ourselves!LOL
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Per JDPowers Longterm Dependability Consumer study, for cars 3 years or older, this is what they found. ( Actual Consumer Survey )
    Brand - Problems Per 100 Vehicles
    Honda - 201
    Toyota -194
    Chrysler - 235
    Average Mechanical Problems
    Expected Per Vehicle per Year for a given brand.
    Honda-2.0
    Toyota-1.9
    Chrysler-2.4
    2005 Odyssey scores below average for the brand, should have more than 2 problems in a given year per vehicle.
    2005 Toyota Sienna scores above average for the brand , should have less than 1.9 problems per vehicle per year.
    2005 Chrysler T&C also scores above average for the brand, should have less than 2.4 problems per year per vehicle.


    As usual Hrao your numbers don't work out!! You change the above and below for Chrysler and Honda. Look over your UNFACTS again!!

    How can 2.4 problems(Chrysler) per year be better than 2 problems per year(Honda) You need to put down the hash pipe! Also make sure your kids are seat belted in while your driving! PLEASE!!!!
This discussion has been closed.