Corvettes and all things about them

fast_n_furious · August 2002

Has anyone got any new info on the new C6? i know what its supposed to look like but have not seen any real pictures of it any one know where i can find some?

alpine325i · August 2002

I think it was Road & Track or Motor Trend, they had pictures of the actual C6 and all of the new options and gadgets, I think they mentioned something about a built in hard drive that accepts MP3 librarys and such, I'll have to look at it again. I wasn't impressed with the styling too much, I thought it looked too generalized, like all of the other new shapes and designs that are coming out soon, like the 350Z, oval cars with giant wheels and a touch of sharp angles here and there, The guy who designed the lovely and most beautiful AZTEK! designed the new Vette, :O)

bigorange30 · August 2002

It was just an artist rendering. The artist went to the designers and listen to them describe it and he draws/paints/computerizes it. It is the only picture available though. I think there will be a rush to get C5's as it get closer to coming out. The C6 doesn't look nearly as distinctive as the C5.

fast_n_furious · August 2002

any websites with exclusive pictures from GM? i know the basics of how its supposed to look, and i saw the fake one in road and track but didn't know how close it is to the real design so i came here, but if it is the vette in road & track, i would be very dissapointed in this 'new generation' styling of the Vette. please give me any more info of the C6

bigorange30 · August 2002

Showed and told the latest information. My goodness, it doesn't come out until 2005. Many things could change between now and then.

starrow68 · August 2002

Just one question, when was the first time somebody said the C5 was going to be released in a year or two? My guess is it was still in the 80's and it took to 1997. Trying to second guess what hasen't been announced is not real productive. The C5 sold more in 2002 than prior year and I think same thing in 2001, not a trend demanding a new entry at this point. 2003 as 50th will sell very well and it will be interesting to see how the 2004 fares which will partly depend on the economy, only time will tell. Just glad I got the C5 when I did.

vinnyny · August 2002

Although the 2003 Vette is sure to be a hot seller, I'm very disappointed. I was expecting something truly special for the 50th anniversary. I figured Chevy would so something like building a limited run of 2003 specially prepared anniversary editions featuring big horsepower and torque (500 is the number I envisioned).

I expected something fast and exclusive--a real collector's item. All we got was magnetic shocks and the obligatory paint and upholstery package. Guess I'll have to wait for the C6...

ruking1 · August 2002

#157

It would be hard to get "radical" with the already awesome setup!

"...I figured Chevy would so something like building a limited run of 2003 specially prepared anniversary editions featuring big horsepower and torque (500 is the number I envisioned).

I expected something fast and exclusive--a real collector's item. All we got was magnetic shocks and the obligatory paint and upholstery package. Guess I'll have to wait for the C6... "

The price would be through the roof with the numbers and modifications you are envisioning, especially on the current platform.

To me, something radical can probably only come with a platform change.

To me, it would mean a body weight of say 2500 #'s,

(600 #'s of shed body weight by it self, if nothing changes in the HP rating of the engine, would be like adding 60 hp!!)

(which probably violates some current governments safety programs)

and anywhere from 425-500 hp which would require a totally different frame, drive train and suspension. The P/W ratio would go from an already awesome 7.70 to a radical 5.55-5.00 !!! Already the good news and the bad news is that there are probably only a handful of higher performance cars that can slightly to mildly surpass the current Z06. When you factor in the performance/price ratio, the C-5, Z06 occupies a rarefied niche.

vinnyny · August 2002

I think that Chevy could have produced such a car both easily and cheaply. Check out the Lingenfelter website (www.lingenfelter.com) for details on the supercharging kit that he now offers for about $9k installed. Car & Driver and Road & Track did reviews of these modifications (490hp and 480lbs-ft torque) and loved what they saw.

Again, I'm not talking about a full production run, just a limited edition to drive the collectors crazy and bring Chevy more bragging rights.

I'm all for the weight reduction you discuss, but I don't want to give up most of the luxury items that would get tossed in the process. The Vette is light relative to most cars anyway.

ruking1 · August 2002

#159

The ability to modify an already awesome platform already exists! From your posting I took what you said to mean STOCK. Sure we can talk modifications in great technical detail, but really do you think you can just get a supercharger installed for 9 k? First of all, Lingerfelter would probably be the first to tell you it would be wise to upgrade the clutch. And the truth is that is really only the beginning! Chevrolet itself changed the clutch when it went from the 2001 to 2002 Z06 and the HP rating only went from 385 to 405=20 hp more? So now we have a 61k k machine and beyond? Trust me, I am not saying it can't be done, but without the myraid of small detail changes, the durability is not going to be there. Chevrolet when it "improved" the 2002 Z06 from the 2001 Z06 upped the price app 6k and that was only for a 20 hp improvement!?

Additionally, sure 490 hp and 480 # ft of torque approaches "beast" like performance, but on the current platform measures out to a P/W ratio of 6.36 which is truly awesome I might add but a ways from the 5.55-5 that a 600 # weight reduction would contribute. (P/W ratio2500# / 490=5.10) So while the supercharger modification is indeed awesome to get a 5.10 P/W ratio in the current platform (3118#s) we are talking 600 plus HP.
That is the good news, the bad news is that you have just created a whole host of new problems.

starrow68 · August 2002

"I was expecting something truly special for the 50th anniversary. I figured Chevy would so something like building a limited run of 2003 specially prepared anniversary editions featuring big horsepower and torque (500 is the number I envisioned).

I expected something fast and exclusive- ... "

Expectations are usually based on something. Why expect 50th at that level? What was the 25th, 35th, 40th? I'm guessing that what you really mean is you were wishing for something that was always very unlikely based on a little history.

However, it will be interesting to see how the intersection of climbing performance and environmental concerns play out over the next decade. Where will the power curve get cut like it did in the early 70's if new CA CO2 law gets implemented in 2009 MY. Something tells me there is going to be a sweet spot there somewhere, but how to pick it before it passes will be the trick.

ruking1 · August 2002

#161

Yes and I think further that it also will be a very hard to hit moving target with lots of obstacles

. Also that is why I think the greatest gains will be the structural weight loss race.(10 hp and 5% better gas mileage per 100 #'s)Not only that but we are even seeing 5W-20 oil for energy conservation purposes!! So in that sense we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel when they go to less engine protection for the sake of minute' energy conservation. We have already seen overwhelming support for the "lighter" weight environmental cars (sub 2700#'s Toyota and Honda) despite evidence to the contrary that 3-5k pounds is really the safer alternative. Already the Corvette if driven under 65 mph is capable of between EPA of 19-28 mpg. To my mind this is pretty amazing for an eight cylinder sports car when 6 cylinder sports cars get way less % mpg!!! So if the platform loses 600#s, the theoretical targets using off the shelf technologies will be 30% better = 8.4 mpg or 36 mpg app.

vinnyny · August 2002

Ruking1:

Actually, I did mean STOCK. I hoped that Chevy might either work a deal with a tuner like Lingenfelter to produce a limited run of special editions for the factory or that Chevy would do the job in-house (either way it would be considered stock from the factory). Just as Ford has done with the new Cobra, Chevy could easily equip a Vette with a supercharger. Chevy has entered into agreements with tuners many times in the past (SLP comes readily to mind), why not do it now for the 50th anniversary? As far as the costs are concerned, check out the Lingenfelter website, pick out the options you think the car should have and tally up the total. Then apply a 20% discount to account for GM's immense buying power. What I think you'll come up with is an anniversary edition Vette that runs sub-12 second quarter miles for under $55k. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I agree with your comments on a lighter car in the future. However, I was talking about a one-time good deal for Corvette fans TODAY, not a long-term solution. Hopefully, the C6 will be lighter.

Starrow68:

You make a good point that Chevy hasn't really done anything special with previous anniversary editions. However, the 50th anniversary of anything should be extra special--that's why they call it the "golden" anniversary. My "expectations" were based on the belief that Bob Lutz might actually take this opportunity to make a difference at Chevy right from the start.

Chevy is in trouble. Light truck sales are the only thing keeping GM afloat. The only way GM will ever recover from its current funk in the passenger car business is to become more innovative and apply its vast resources and engineering skills to produce cars that people actually want. Why not start by doing something truly special with your flagship car for its biggest birthday?

That said, I probably should have said "wished" versus "expected."

vettes2 · August 2002

It's posible that some of the changes that Lutz has pushed upon his arrival affected the outcome of the 50th. See hear:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11444

ruking1 · August 2002

#163

Well I think equally as obvious is that the opportunity window you wax about has long since been shut. And I also think that if GM is in trouble, the other big guys are in worse shape. Since you have mentioned Ford, we dont have to look too far for an example.

The other bottom line is not only does Chevrolet not build a Corvette till a firm order is in hand, but they are getting to be in a position not unlike BMW, where they don't HAVE to discount very much. In that narrow sense, GM is starting to really "get it"

chip78 · August 2002

New poster. Sorry if this was covered. In coupe with top out, is the backside constructed to be legitimate rollbar protection? Don't imagine the windshield is much help given the slant. Don't see roll bars much discussed for targas or convertibles in general. Thanks.

starrow68 · August 2002

As to the roll bar capability of the coupe, all I've heard going to watch at events for the past year is that the vert's require rollbars and the coupe does not and I've seen many drive with roof panel out. Can't speak to the level of protection but seems it meets the rule requirements so that roll bar is not extra requirement.

Or another way to look at expectations is that 350 hp meets expectations until you get used to it and raise the bar. Still satisfied, even happy to be honest!

machiavelli · August 2002

A few things to consider about the 50th Anniversary -

1. A supercharged engine would probably drop the mileage into 'gas guzzler' territory, or at very least would hurt GM's CAFE number.

2. It would definitely raise the price.

3. GM is selling all the Corvettes they can make, anyway.

4. GM doesn't have infinite resources. Spending time/engineering/money/etc.. on a special 50th Anniversary edition of the C5 probably just delays the C6.

vinnyny · August 2002

RE: "A few things to consider about the 50th Anniversary"-

You'll notice that my solution for GM to make the 50th special relies on using a tuner like Lingenfelter to do most of the work. If you check out the Car & Driver story on the Lingenfelter supercharged Vette, you'll find the answers to your concerns:

1. EPA City rating for the supercharged car is 18 mpg--about the same as a stock model. Besides, 2003 "gas guzzlers" aren't going to hurt GM's CAFE by more than a tenth of a mpg (if that much).

2. The price of a loaded Lingenfelter special is $58k. If we assume that Chevy gets a volume discount but add back the additional cost (aka "price gouge") for the anniversary package and the cost comes up pretty close. Lesser 2003 Vettes would keep their standard pricing. (With a name like Machiavelli, are you really worried about the price or is all that "end justifies the means" stuff just hype?)

3. I'm happy that Chevy is selling all the Corvettes they can make, but how does that help fans who were hoping for something more than paint and embroidery?

4. All the design work has already been done and tested by Lingenfelter (or whichever tuner GM could have hired). Therefore, very little internal effort would be wasted by Chevy in creating the special edition.

Chevy really missed an opportunity to show what they were about. The Corvette's 50th anniversary was the perfect opportunity to establish Chevy as a performance leader. Think of all the free publicity Chevy would have gotten as it rolled out it's limited edition Viper-, Ferrari- and Lamborghini-killer. I can visualize the headlines: Chevy introduces king of the hill version of "America's sports car".

Check out the Lingenfelter story in the April 2002 Car & Driver.

ruking1 · August 2002

#169

Actually it would be far cheaper for you to buy a 50th anniversary and have the Lingerfelter modifications done on it yourself!!! Then it would be a stealth 50th.!!!

machiavelli · August 2002

good point ruking1 - just have Lingerfelter build your own 50th anniversary special and it will be a real 'sleeper'!

It would have been something nice for Corvette diehards, but I still don't think it's a great loss for GM/Chevy that they didn't do more for the 50th. It's a business. GM is selling all the Corvettes they can make. They don't really need a "special edition" to boost sales. Corvette diehards will buy all the 50th anniversary editions anyway.

vinnyny · August 2002

I think you guys have the right idea. In fact, I'm thinking of getting one myself. I just re-read the C&D article and realized that the $58k price included a $5,235 wheel and tire package that could be deleted and a $339 boost gauge that doesn't help performance. Heck, we're talking $52k now.

ruking1 · August 2002

#172

Good! You know I am not trying to rain on your parade! But in addition to huge reliability and warranty concerns, they have got to be concerned with how durable add ons will be!Obviously if you put in thousands of dollars of modifications,YOU are in the drivers seat, so to speak, the major determining factor (given sound engineering and build quality) on how reliable or durable this machine can and will be.

vinnyny · August 2002

If you like Corvettes, you have to check out the September edition of C&D. The Lingenfelter Vette whoops up on 14 other super cars. It's available online...

Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a cheeleader for C&D and Lingenfelter!

stoker32 · August 2002

Hi all,
I just purchased a 1995 BMW 525i. In just two months, I am already having problems with the driver side power window. Can anyone tell me if this car is going to be hi-maint? It was a toss-up btwn this and a MB E300.

starrow68 · August 2002

My 2002 C5 has had 4 oil changes and a 10k service in 11 months and not worrying about hi-maint at this point, good luck.

Don't worry about cheerleading when you are cheering on the winner, sounds like the best time to cheerlead

.

starrow68 · August 2002

Link to C&D supercar challenge:

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/ 2002/september/supercars/0209_sc_challenge_opener.xml

Since I don't like to solve tech problems and link is over 115 ch's. just cut and paste and take the space out in front of 2002 in the middle.

Also, didn't stop to read but at the market this AM there was a C&D comparison issue with stock Corvette vs. other sports cars, pretty nice result if you like the Vette. Don't see it on the C&D web site yet.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2002

Nope, your link is dated material and no longer available it seems.

Host

starrow68 · August 2002

If I copy the two lines of the total link, ignoring that there is a space after the / before '2002' and then delete that space after pasting the entire two lines, it works for me. Maybe I wasn't clear.

joelis · August 2002

"The other bottom line is not only does Chevrolet not build a Corvette till a firm order is in hand, but they are getting to be in a position not unlike BMW, where they don't HAVE to discount very much. In that narrow sense, GM is starting to really "get it"."

I see advertisements in the paper all the time lately, showing $4000 off PLUS a $1000 rebate. This is the first time that GM has ever given a Rebate on a Corvette than I can remember.

I wish I had bought mine this year instead of last year, when all I could muster up was a $3000 total discount.

ruking1 · August 2002

#180

A couple of things:

1. not long ago there was a $2000. rebate on Corvettes. Don't quote me but I believe it was before the 9/11 tragedy, the 9/11 tragedy seen as the trigger for the current " economic recession."

2. GETTING there is the operative word. In that sense BMW ,in so far as the domestic market, can be seen to be "there".

In fact, there are many ways around this.

To keep on topic, there are many ways to get a "cheaper" Vette. So I do not appear to be vague, I mean invoice, plus...

starrow68 · August 2002

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020828/dew025_1.html

Discounts on the Web are up into the 5k and even 6k range if you want to look around. But since I've had almost 12,000 miles of smiles, glad I didn't wait. You can always put off doing something but you may not be as happy as if you just moved ahead. Also getting what will make you happy in the long run to me is more important than saving a few more bucks and taking what is on the lot.

starrow68 · September 2002

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=369724

Try for info and maybe you can get more input.

vettes2 · September 2002

Check here:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12017

mikeivan · September 2002

I looked at two of these in Houston today, both convertibles, both with 6 speeds. The shale gray interior is VERY nice. The wheels are sort of shale color too. The anniversary "red" is more like maroon in the show room, it is supposed to be almost candy apple in the sun, of course no sun today. One car was priced $15000 over invoice, the other $20000 over. A third dealer offered to order me one at invoice. Anybody with any pricing or driving or bright sunshine experience with these cars?

ruking1 · September 2002

#186

At invoice is an awesome deal! While I do not have a 50th Anniversary model, I do have a 2001 Z06. While each individual car can have its very own issues, the only one that I have had after over 36k miles (a common problem) is a leaking differential) This was covered under warranty.

bigorange30 · September 2002

How they get away with charging so much?

starrow68 · September 2002

If the buyer is willing to pay, they get away with it, if not, they don't. When buying my 2002 EB Coupe before the color was available in showrooms, the local SF Bay Area dealers all had sticker + $3.5k to 7.5k on the windows of what was available, last of the 2001's. The salesmen would try to get you into negotiations with 'I think I might be able to get to MSRP' which was a game I didn't want to play, I walked. Got exactly what I wanted over the internet at $2k under MSRP. Two emails and done deal with production date, gosh I hate dealing with car salesmen and am so glad the internet makes for real competition.

bigorange30 · September 2002

That's just insane. There ought to be a law against such gouging.

verozahl · September 2002

Don't need a law - markets work better. If people are unwilling to pay $20K over, then the market price will go down and... yes, I know this is Economics 101.

tkorus · September 2002

Hi,

I've just recieved my 2002 corvette convertible.

1. Under 150 miles on it the door module needed to be replaced. Anybody else have this issue?

2. Probally my fault to have the car shipped from MI to NJ on flatbed - Paint has scattter marks all over it! Needs to go to bodyshop - Hope GM supports this.

3. I have a 6 speed. When the car idles in nuetral
there is a rattle under the car. The dealership said this is just the transmission and this is Normal? Also the car needs to be brought up to at least 2000 rpm's in first or there is a noise from the clutch plate?

Thanks!

ruking1 · September 2002

#191

1. This must be a statistical anomoly, yours is the first I have heard.

2. Good luck it sounds like a new car delivery issue that they need to stand behind.

3. A certain amount of "marbles" in a can sound is normal.

However, what your's sounds like is parts of the transmission rubbing against the transmission tunnel. This can seriously degrade the life of the transmission to the point it will get out of warranty and fail. While I can't be real certain, the folks at the dealer would be able to inspect and correct under warranty.

tkorus · September 2002

Thanks,

I just called the dealer and they said they are too busy too check it out! They of coarse are not the dealership I bought the car from. Anyway thanks for the info I'll have to bring it in to another shop. I would hate to have damage being done to the car. Besides the ridiculous problems the car is a lot of fun.

Ted

starrow68 · September 2002

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=110839#post110839

Article from Detroit FP

coolsly2 · September 2002

When I got my 2002 Z06, I remember posting that either shifting at 2000-3000 rpm, there was backfire coming from the exaust and was asking if it was normal. Some says yes.

Now the car has about 3000km on it and when I start it in the morning and I leave from home, I can shift from 1st to 2nd when it's "supposed" to do the skip shift. Also, shifting at 2000 or even 1500rpm will make a backfire. It does that for the first 4-5 minutes I drive the car. After that, everything is ok. Usually when there are backfires it's because the "combustion" is not correct but how come for the first 4-5 minutes and shifting at whatever rpm will cause this. I hope that everybody who owns a Z06 will say they hear the same noise! If not, is it possible that it will damage something or should I check with the dealer?

I'm concerned, thank you,

Sylvain

achenator · September 2002

A friend of mine has a new 2003 Z-06. His has the same rattle when stopped in neutral. Sounds like a tin can. He has had no luck with a good fix. Two dealers have told him they all sound like that.

starrow68 · September 2002

The 'marbles' sound gets lots of mention on the Corvette specific boards so having listened to it for a year and reading about it, seems it is normal. The backfiring is unusual for any Vette that I have come across in the past year. Several Z06's seen at shows and autocross or track events and don't think I've heard a backfire yet. IMO, get it looked at soon.

cptmcf · September 2002

I am hunting for a new Z06, I live in GA but am willing to travel...just sold my boxster and ready for something with some more power...hope I am not making a mistake!!! Anyone know of any dealers dealing on a new Z06???

starrow68 · September 2002

If you go through CorvetteForum.com they seem to have stock in your area.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=385432

I got mine through a contact I made at the forum and drove it back from Montana to CA, great trip.

Good luck.

vettes2 · September 2002

Check with Rick Daniel at Maxie Price. He's a Supporting Dealer at the Corvette Action Center and has an excellent reputation:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=168

Corvettes and all things about them

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