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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    My experience pretty much matches yours. My company runs a service provider fleet and at one time we had nearly 10,000 cars in operation at once. In the past we were a two-year leasing fleet with a 60,000 mile end contract (some cars went more years because of few miles), but we have gradually gone to three-four years and a 80,000 mile top stop. Like your company, we generally held Chevy/Ford/Plymouth cars with a few mid-size Buicks, Olds, and Mercurys in the mid-seventies. Up until recently we had an exception when our service reps were assigned to an automotive manufacturer. For instance, service reps in the Marysville, Ohio area drove Hondas if they visited the Honda facility. Since most of our reps carry quite a bit of machine parts we have migrated into mini-vans increasingly since the mid-eighties.

    I would often compare our results, of let's say several thousand of one particular model, against CR's data and almost always see discrepancies, sometimes very wide. The fact that CR's data is only based on subscribership is alone a statistical bias as the reporting population, by virtue of the fact that they are more consumer oriented, is outside the "average" car owner. And as you mentioned, the term "major problem" on CR's form leaves it entirely up to the subscriber to determine what is major and what is not. In this manner alone the ambiguousness of the completely open-ended questionnaire violates Standard Statistical Form, even for one that's unsolicited.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I agree with sebring95 and some others concerning the statistics and the method of their collection. Please keep in mind that J.D. Powers results are often touted by manufactures in their advertising leaving me to doubt their credibility. I wonder if that advertising does not result in some major $$ for the Powers company?

    I have subscribed to Consumer Reports since the late '60s. I always take their evaluations with a suspect eye. The earlier posting about the validity of their reader responses has to be considered.

    Too much time and effort has been expended here trying to argue about whose math is more accurate. I like to read about comparisons of vehicles by owners. The only reasonably reliable information is that which is posted by owners stating specific problems or satisfaction. I would most value the posting of someone who has owned a late model DCX AND Honda minivan and who has no agenda.

    It does take some effort to find these boards but they are a valuable asset if we take the time to state accurate FACTS.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Here is an example of selective quoting from Odyssey owners.
    "Now here's what really makes me wonder why the DCX crowd isn't on here all upset. Here's how DCX and Honda owners think about there cars. So it's like overall satisfaction. Performance DGC 2/5 Ody 5/5 Comfort DGC 2/5 Ody 5/5 Features and Instrument DGC 2/5 Ody 5/5 Style DGC 3/5 Ody 4/5 Overall Appeal DGC-2/5 Ody 5/5. So why aren't the people complaining here??"

    The same J D Power ratings rated Initial Quality and the results are; Mechanical Quality DGC 4 Odyssey 4 (tie), Feature and Accessory Quality DGC 5 Odyssey 3, Body and Interior Quality DGC 3, Odyssey 2, Overall Quality DGC 4 Odyssey 2.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Did you see where I put in now heres what people THINK about there cars. It's like how much a person is satisfied with there cars!! Looks like there is alot to be said about what the people who buy a DGC think about thre van. 2/5 compared to 5/5 wouldn't you think they'd be all over this forum??

    Do you really think a Odyssey owner would rate his or her van lower after having paid a premium price for it over DCX vans. Socalwad excepted because he's convinced he got the best price on his first Odyssey after buying 3 or 4? DCX vans.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Do you really think a Odyssey owner would rate his or her van lower after having paid a premium price for it over DCX vans. Socalwad excepted because he's convinced he got the best price on his first Odyssey after buying 3 or 4? DCX vans.

    I have only purchased 1 Dodge caravan(2001) I did it purely for the price, had 2 as company cars(1990,1993), and one given to me (1986) when we were too poor to buy anything(about 8 years ago). I bought the van I wanted, don't care if you think I paid too much. The most important thing is that whomever buys is happy with thier purchase. That will make you keep the car longer and save yourself much headache in the future. I think driving them both and then looking at the features you want/need and can afford is a excellant way to find a car you can live with.

    I really did like the Ody's comfort, safety features, VCM, VSC, offset crash test ratings, Lockable in floor storage, side shades for the twins, ride, 9 inch DVD screen, looks, braking, and overall smile factor of getting this van for my wife and kids. So I guess you should guess again. Or maybe not.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Do you really think a Odyssey owner would rate his or her van lower after having paid a premium price for it over DCX vans.

    You hit the head on the nail here!!!! Ody buyers certainly wouldn't knock their Minivans after a premium price. If you paid $30k-$40k for a MINIVAN, you'd be giving it rave reviews no matter what problems you have with it.

    The "Problems" areas on here is amazing when you look at the number of postings vs numbers sold for each minivan. You have at least 2:1 more DCX vans sold, but a fraction of the postings on here. For most people, a minivan is strictly an appliance, point A-B tool (especially a DCX).....not worth getting too excited about unless you paid a lot more for your's or have a problem. If you browse thru DCX Problems, many are like "I have 130k miles on my 1996 Caravan and my thingy is acting up". Very few late models problems for DCX. Even the latest CR buyer guide rates them identically even.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    The "Problems" areas on here is amazing when you look at the number of postings vs numbers sold for each minivan. You have at least 2:1 more DCX vans sold, but a fraction of the postings on here.

    Well there he is Mr. look at these forums.How ya doing today??

    For most people, a minivan is strictly an appliance, point A-B tool (especially a DCX).....not worth getting too excited about unless you paid a lot more for your's or have a problem.

    Well you seem pretty excited sometimes!! Did ya pay too much or do ya have a problem??

    If you browse thru DCX Problems, many are like "I have 130k miles on my 1996 Caravan and my thingy is acting up".

    Well ya still have the forum if all else looks bleak I would think that will never change! I only know about 20 DCX members on here(small gene pool) and not a one of them would dare post there!! Some guy had a check engine light on in the Honda forum and like 10 differant people posted. On the DCX board ya have to wait until someone shows up. Heck just the other day I was the first person to respond to a guy with suspention noise after 3 days. I hope it was the sway bar bushings(common 50K issue on the DCX vans) and not the whole rack and pinion like on the 2005 DCX owner that replyed

    Very few late models problems for DCX. Even the latest CR buyer guide rates them identically even.

    Look now we like CR and will quote it!! EVEN!!

    You hit the head on the nail here!!!! Ody buyers certainly wouldn't knock their Minivans after a premium price. If you paid $30k-$40k for a MINIVAN, you'd be giving it rave reviews no matter what problems you have with it.

    No you guessed wrong again. How about 2005 cars would ya think the appeal scores on the BMW 5 series would be high, how about the Mercedes E-Class?? Guess what they both scored lower than the Ody. Mostly 3's. You can get a EX for around 26K a LX for 23K, the average car price is 30K(mine was 29.5K EXL with RES). It's really not very expensive for what ya get!! It's definitely not the car for the masses, but you could always buy a really old car and drive it until the wheels fall off. My dad does! 500 deductable and only liability. Now thats the way to save money! That guy got 270K(bought it with 95K in 1984 drove until it rusted to the ground) out of a 1979 mercury Zephyr wagon. I perfer to have something nice for about 10 years. To each their own. So if ya wanna save money dennis buying a new car wasn't the answer. You coulda got a used Ford Expedition with a tow package for about 10K less.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    J D Power Initial Quality Advantage DCX.
    J D Power Appeal Ratings Advantage Odyssey (see post 4935).
    Consumers Report both average, tie (see post 4898).
    VSC ? same rollover rating for DCX without VSC.
    VCM ? Some (not all) Ody owners are not happy with mileage.
    Full Curtain side Airbags, Advantage Odyssey.
    Trade in value, Depending on your savings rate, Advantage Odyssey.
    Price paid, Advantage DCX
    Crash test ratings DCX and Honda Odyssey (tied) 5 stars for both vans, Driver ,Passenger, Front and Rear. 4 star rollover ratings for both.
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/

    Looks like both of these vans are pretty equal except for price!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    J D Power Initial Quality Advantage DCX.
    J D Power Appeal Ratings Advantage Odyssey (see post 4935).
    Consumers Report both average, tie (see post 4898).
    VSC ? same rollover rating for DCX without VSC.
    VCM ? Some (not all) Ody owners are not happy with mileage.
    Full Curtain side Airbags, Advantage Odyssey.
    Trade in value, Depending on your savings rate, Advantage Odyssey.
    Price paid, Advantage DCX
    Crash test ratings DCX and Honda Odyssey (tied) 5 stars for both vans, Driver ,Passenger, Front and Rear. 4 star rollover ratings for both.
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/

    Looks like both of these vans are pretty equal except for price!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I hope it was the sway bar bushings(common 50K issue on the DCX vans) and not the whole rack and pinion like on the 2005 DCX owner that replyed

    Well lets be grateful he didn't need his engine or tranny replaced, like I've seen a few Honda owners talking about!!!

    How about 2005 cars would ya think the appeal scores on the BMW 5 series would be high, how about the Mercedes E-Class??

    Maybe, just maybe people who are spending upwards of $60k for a vehicle have much higher expectations than Minivan buyers?

    You can get a EX for around 26K a LX for 23K, the average car price is 30K

    True!! if you fly to North Dakota to purchase it, or send out a million emails looking for those prices. Begging some dealers to knock off a grand, then turn around and charge you a grand for mudflaps and paint protector. Even your own little fluff piece last week noted Odys selling for sticker.

    I'm waiting for the new X5 to come out next year...preferring German styling, handling and engineering over anything else.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    From socalawd "Oct 5 So far 2006 Dodge GC 6.0 rating 2006 Honda Odyssey 9.8 rating."
    Oct 31 2006 rating DGC 9.0 Ody 8.5 looks like a fall from grace to me!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    DC dealers normally have a nice selection of new minivans on the lot. Honda dealers will put you on a waiting list for a substantial fee for a vehicle you can not personally examine. Summary of why many people buy the Caravan, Grand Caravan, or Town & Country instead of the superior Odyssey. ;)
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    "Look now we like CR and will quote it!! EVEN!!"

    Maybe now you see the potential for unreliability of CR's methodology? The problem for ANYONE willing to prove reliability based on CR's sloppy methodology is that it's a two-edge sword. The variabilities are too great and their methods are too flat. Remember, too, that you and another were criticizing my criticism quite vigorously and, with certain qualification, by default defending CR. So if you believe in CR's methods over anything else, then maybe you are forced to accept the latest results.

    But as far as I go, you can ease your mind. Although I never believed that the Honda was as good as CR indicated, I still think CR's methodology is no better than a sixth grade math assignment. Trying to predict the future performance and reliability of manufactured goods based on past performance of items in the hands of users with the full range of owner behavior is inherently flawed to begin with.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Maybe now you see the potential for unreliability of CR's methodology? The problem for ANYONE willing to prove reliability based on CR's sloppy methodology is that it's a two-edge sword. The variabilities are too great and their methods are too flat. Remember, too, that you and another were criticizing my criticism quite vigorously and, with certain qualification, by default defending CR. So if you believe in CR's methods over anything else, then maybe you are forced to accept the latest results.

    I think thats pretty close to true. I accept without any reservations. The Ody is a first year model and DCX has been improving since the late 90's. That's why I bought in2001 I saw them getting better.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    VSC ? same rollover rating for DCX without VSC

    Do you know how they do rollover testing?? Well here ya go they find the center of gravity and see how high it is then compare it to the tire width!! It is not a dynamic test!!
    VSC is a very good safety feature please don't try and disregard it without using useful information.

    VCM ? Some (not all) Ody owners are not happy with mileage.

    Test track show a average of 13% better gas mileage.

    Crash test ratings DCX and Honda Odyssey (tied) 5 stars for both vans, Driver ,Passenger, Front and Rear. 4 star rollover ratings for both.

    Whats the offset for the DCX they have it listed as marginial. While the Ody is Good and a best bet.

    Looks like both of these vans are pretty equal except for price!

    Only if you close your eyes and don't drive them both!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Maybe, just maybe people who are spending upwards of $60k for a vehicle have much higher expectations than Minivan buyers?

    How many times can you use the arguement both ways if you pay more you will only say good things!! Then you say if you pay more you expect more so you'll say bad things!! You are quite confusing to say the least :confuse:

    True!! if you fly to North Dakota to purchase it, or send out a million emails looking for those prices. Begging some dealers to knock off a grand, then turn around and charge you a grand for mudflaps and paint protector. Even your own little fluff piece last week noted Odys selling for sticker.

    I dealt with 3 dealers and sent 4 emails. Wow it was so hard. Oh I almost spent as much time posting this then getting my Odyssey for 200 over invoice. BTW after that I had people bugging me with the I got a deal for you. Rock Honda, Riverside Honda, Honda world, Fladeboe(where I took my test drive) I was like throw my number out. Oh where do I live Southern California. Huh I've never been to North Dakota>
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    DGC equals DODGE GRAND CARAVAN not Caravan which is the shorter version.The DGC (GRAND) scored 9.0 to Ody's 8.5 Consumer rating.You were the one who brought up the ratings. If you average the T&C and DGC Consumers ratings 8.0 and 9.0 you still get 8.5 which ties the Odyssey.ENJOY!!! It still looks like Odyssey's rating is on a downward spiral, while DCX continues to improve.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    VCM ? Some (not all) Ody owners are not happy with mileage. (Read Problem forum)

    Test track show a average of 13% better gas mileage.( Better than what?)

    Crash test ratings DCX and Honda Odyssey (tied) 5 stars for both vans, Driver ,Passenger, Front and Rear. 4 star rollover ratings for both.

    Whats the offset for the DCX they have it listed as marginial. While the Ody is Good and a best bet.
    Are you reading the same Test as I am? I did not mention the driver door coming open on the Ody http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    What ratings are you guys citing????? CR?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I dealt with 3 dealers and sent 4 emails.

    Key Word being "I"!!!!!!!!! There are many postings from people on Honda Prices Paid searching the world (or at least out of state or their living area) trying to find a deal!!!! All for just a MINIVAN.

    BTW - DOES ANYONE ELSE ON HERE HAVE THE VERY ANNOYING "INSIDE LINE/TOYOTA" AD COVERING THE MESSAGE AREA, MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT TO READ POSTINGS???? EDMUNDS??????????
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I did all my research online then went to my local Honda store. Since most dealers in this area will not pass up a deal I chose the closest dealership for future service consideration (but since my Odyssey is SO perfect, this should never even been considered). I did not consider DCX models because of past terrible experience with their junk. Dealing with the Internet department at the dealer I got what I think is a good deal. It is almost impossible to know a good deal with any American make because of all the rebates and special offers at any given time.

    My dealer had an ample selection of Odyssey models and colors and just the one I wanted. I am certain the DCX dealers have loads of vans mainly due to poor sales and large inventory. Read the October sales figure being released this morning to see just how bad things are for Detroit. Something is going on when the American car makers ran "Employee Pricing for All" sales for months this summer. DCX wouldn't even let old Lee Iaccoca enjoy retirement.

    Most of the comments on here are very biased. Since I just spent a bundle on an Odyssey do you think I am going to come on here and slam that model? I am going to tell everyone how great the Odyssey is thus making me out to be the genius I know I am ;) . Car buying is almost as personal as your political views. Yes, I would post like crazy if my Odyssey turns to junk but short of that I want to look brilliant.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Interesting that the NHTSA and IIHS results DO NOT AGREE .

    NHTSA has Odyssey, Grand Caravan, and Sienna all 5 Stars except 4 stars for rollover rating for all 3 and Sienna only 4 stars for driver.

    IIHS has Odyssey and Sienna "Good" for frontal crash but ODYSSEY only MARGINAL for rear and Sienna POOR....BUT has Grand Caravan as Acceptable for frontal and rear.

    WHY the discrepancy between NHTSA and IIHS for Grand Caravan? :confuse:
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    The method of testing is different. I am certain one of the posters can tell you the difference but I do know that the IIHS' method are far more real world than are those of NHTSA.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    The method of testing is different. I am certain one of the posters can tell you the difference but I do know that the IIHS' method are far more real world than are those of NHTSA.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Yeah, I have that exceptionally annoying "Inside Line/Toyota" ad on my screen.
    It also covers part of the message area when one typing to reply to a post.
    Must be some type of punishment for all the statistics and Consumer Reports
    posts that have been going on in here. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I think as long as CR judges each car's quality in the same manner, it should be a relative guage for comparing vehicles; however, it's only one guage and should not be used as an absolute. That being said, if I had the choice between two vehicles that both met my needs and one was full of CR black circles and the other choice had CR red circles, then I'd go for the one with CR red circles, but that's about as much as I'd use the CR stats because the margin of error in the CR circles and ratings have a pretty big margin of error based on what I know of the sampling techniques use, bias of the subjects being sampled, etc.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Posting a reference to owners ratings (from Edmunds new car buying guide www.edmunds.com) allows ALL the readers of this forum to go to the site and check the ratings for themselves.Isn't it funny when Ody is rated higher it is posted brazenly as the facts, and when Ody is rated lower, it is dismissed as a anominoly based on one owners lower rating? If one particular poster insists on only posting the partial information that shows his choice as the only right one. Then I will continue to post information which contradicts his posts. Yes I am well educated (engineer) and well read on all automotive issues. The Honda Odyssey is a fine minivan, but so are the DCX versions, the buyers should decide what features or price are their priorities and purchase accordingly.The current Edmunds ratings by consumers are 06 Dodge Caravan (short wheelbase) 7.4, 06 Dodge GRAND Caravan 9.0, 06 Chrysler T&C (both long and short wheelbase) 6.3, and the 06 Honda Odyssey 8.4, These ratings are based on the limited amount of owners who access the Edmunds site and leave data. ENJOY and be prepared for more rebuttals. Semper Fi!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    WHY the discrepancy between NHTSA and IIHS for Grand Caravan?

    It's a offset test. It was developed for a typicial car coing over the center divider. How many people hit striaght in a flat barrier?? Just another type test if you go to crashtest.com they have like all sorts of tests at different speed by differt countries.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    From hayneldan: Crash test ratings DCX and Honda Odyssey (tied) 5 stars for both vans, Driver ,Passenger, Front and Rear. 4 star rollover ratings for both.

    From socalawd :Whats the offset for the DCX they have it listed as marginial. While the Ody is Good and a best bet.

    The truth, My quote is from NHTSA which tested 06 minivans.http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Index2.cfm
    Socalawd's Quote is from IIHS which last tested a DCX van in 2001

    Semper Fi
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Hi, Folks,

    This discussion hasn't just departed from its usually high-quality level; it's gotten completely off-track; for that reason, a number of posts have been removed.

    I think everyone here is aware that opinions are biased, that even the most scrupulous research has a built-in margin of error, and that interpretations of both are likely to vary widely. In other words, it's helpful to consider one's own needs and take everything one reads with a grain of salt. If you'd like to continue discussing the validity of CR's research methodology, you can do so here:
    Consumer Reports: Testing and Review Methods.

    This discussion welcomes all of your opinions, but that welcome is limited to opinions about vehicles... not each other. Here are a couple of guidelines:

    If you can't think of a way to respectfully refute someone else's opinion, don't reply at all. Go on to the next post.

    Be respectful in your attitude and language. If you choose to speak in a tone that you wouldn't dream of using during a job interview or dinner at Grandma's house, your choice is probably inappropriate and harmful to productive discussion.

    Comments about the appropriateness of another's post are off-topic and perpetuate an unpleasant situation. If you happen to spot a post that you feel is harmful to the discussion, please let me know via email, rather than pointing it out on the boards.

    Keep it on-topic. Lurkers vastly outnumber posters in any given forum, and this Forum belongs as much to them as it does to active posters. They don't come here to find out what the members think of each other -- they come to find out about your experiences with your vehicles. Trying to decide which car to buy is nerve-wracking enough -- give them a break by not requiring them to wade through 50 posts to find one that pertains to the subject listed at the top of the screen.

    Thanks,

    ClaireS, Host
    Coupes & Convertibles | Vans & Minivans

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Hi, Dennis,

    It seems to be an intermittent problem and it's been reported. I agree that it's pretty irritating :sick:

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    My dealer had an ample selection of Odyssey models and colors and just the one I wanted. I am certain the DCX dealers have loads of vans mainly due to poor sales and large inventory. Read the October sales figure being released this morning to see just how bad things are for Detroit. Something is going on when the American car makers ran "Employee Pricing for All" sales for months this summer. DCX wouldn't even let old Lee Iaccoca enjoy retirement.

    I think I've read a few times now that 2005 Caravans were sold out early. Bet Honda wishes it could say the same. Someone a few weeks ago made a comment about Honda not being concerned about selling more vans than Chrysler etc....but isn't it funny how much Honda covets the "No. 1 selling car in America" with it's Accords and Civics but not it's Odys?

    The "something going on" has more to do with $3.00/gal gasoline than EP.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    think I've read a few times now that 2005 Caravans were sold out early. Bet Honda wishes it could say the same. Someone a few weeks ago made a comment about Honda not being concerned about selling more vans than Chrysler etc....but isn't it funny how much Honda covets the "No. 1 selling car in America" with it's Accords and Civics but not it's Odys?

    Well I checked four dealerships out here( None are sold out)and they have almost 50 Caravans left. Cerritos Dodge has 35 2005's in stock come out and buy one!! maybe I have to go to North Dakota to find a dealer thats sold out of 2005's. In september Dodge caravan(all styles) sold 12,390. Honda Odyssey sold 12,347. Something is going on here!! People are spending there money wisely!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    In september Dodge caravan(all styles) sold 12,390. Honda Odyssey sold 12,347. Something is going on here!! People are spending there money wisely!!

    One month does not a sales year make...or something like that, also, you may not be including T&Cs which I believe are selling almost same volume as Dodges now that Plymouth is history?

    Maybe what's going on is "selective" reporting of stats?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    One Hot Minivan
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    . In september Dodge caravan(all styles) sold 12,390. Honda Odyssey sold 12,347. Something is going on here!!

    I guess people are wising up here....

    Here's the latest: Chrysler Group Reports Sales

    Looks like 25,412 Minivan were sold in October, up from previous month but down from year ago.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    T&C Sales went up with Employee Pricing, a good thing for everybody concerned, and the stow & go helps that equation too. I just want to point out, that other vans' sales dropped except for, and I quote," The Honda Odyssey is another exception. Odyssey sales are up 15.2 percent in the period." No employee pricing there.

    "Sales of the Dodge Grand Caravan held steady in the period."

    Why did the DGC hold steady if the T&C rose by almost 87% for the first half of the year? I may be missing something, but DCX Employee Pricing was on ALL DCXs, right?

    One month does not a sales year make

    Your own words, not mine.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Long before the 2006 models arrived at West Valley Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep and Doug Smith. Meanwhile, there were 2005 Honda Odysseys still sitting on the lots of Willey Honda, Ken Garff Honda, and Larry H. Miller Honda.
    None of these Honda dealers would put a person on a waiting list without a $ 500 NON-refundable deposit. When asked why, the Honda salesman replied that if it were refundable, someone may order one at every Honda dealer and then take the first one that came in LEAVING the other Honda dealers with an un-wanted vehicle." ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    T&C sales increased 87.4 % while the Odyssey increased only 15.2 % ? AND you are bragging about the Odyssey?? :sick:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    T&C sales increased 87.4 % while the Odyssey increased only 15.2 % ? AND you are bragging about the Odyssey??

    When you realize the Odyssey is a totally new design with state of the art features and dealers can't charge above MRSP (like the 1999-2003s?) and they're not gaining much market share??? Whereas the Dodge is a more mature design?
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Long before the 2006 models arrived at West Valley Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep and Doug Smith. Meanwhile, there were 2005 Honda Odysseys still sitting on the lots of Willey Honda, Ken Garff Honda, and Larry H. Miller Honda.
    None of these Honda dealers would put a person on a waiting list without a $ 500 NON-refundable deposit. When asked why, the Honda salesman replied that if it were refundable, someone may order one at every Honda dealer and then take the first one that came in LEAVING the other Honda dealers with an un-wanted vehicle."

    Ok I checked Inventory Willey Honda has 0 2005 Honda Odyssey's. Kan Garff has 2 2005's and Larry Miller has 0 2005 Odyssey's. But they have plenty of 2006's. Now Doug smith had 0 2005 Grand Caravan's Menlove has 3 2005 Grand Caravan, and Hinkley has 1 a silver SXT 2005 Grand caravans. I talked to a sales guy at Menlove 1-800-447-2098 and he said all 3 are there!! So at these dealers in SLC(I got them by just putting Dodge/invertory and Honda/inventory these are the first 3 that came up) it's Dodge 4 Grand caravan leftovers and Honda 2 (all model Odyssey's)leftovers. I know I should look for T&C and SWB caravans so this is only a partial info post. I know that dennis and dan would have sniffed the one out as a false claim. Since they only worry about the truth! :P
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I am writing about the inventory in AUGUST 2005 when I was actively looking. ;)

    I will probably buy the Toyota Sienna LE at Mark Miller Toyota when I get my next vehicle. Mark Miller has the best inventory of Sienna and does not load them all up with overpriced Toyota options as does Menlove Toyota and Larry H. Miller Toyota. Most Toyota owners are much more pleasant than most of the Honda owners...altho I have met nice salesmen at Willey Honda, Ken Garff Honda, Ken Garff West Valley Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep, and Doug Smith Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.

    Doug Smith caters to buyers of USED Grand Caravans and sold 3 or 4 USED 2005 GC for every NEW 2005 GC. :confuse:

    I would NOT buy either a Dodge or Toyota from Menlove Dodge/Toyota nor any vehicle from one of the dozens of Larry H. Miller dealerships....even though Larry H. Miller himself is a very nice guy. :sick:
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I like to look at the Chrysler web site, in particular the local dealer inventory. I read the Magneson-Moss sticker to see what is offered as standard equipment. My point is that in September, there were dozens of 2005 T&C vans languishing on Metroplex area dealers lots. In contrast, when I first looked at the Odyssey I was hoping for a deal on a 2005. My first trip to a Honda dealer in late August yielded five 2006 models and no 2005s. They were gone by mid-August.

    In fairness, I drove a Sienna XLE in June. I came back to that same dealer in September and it was still there. By its Texas state inspection sticker it had been at the dealer since March. Guess what? It is still there along with another XLE but that one has been there since February!

    I like my Odyssey. As I said before I have owned a Vanagon, Nissan Van, Trans Sport, Grand Caravan, Windstar, Sihouette and now the 06 Odyssey. The VW, Nissan and Dodge were junk. The rest were very reliable.

    I do not think people are stupid for buying another brand different from mine. We all make choices based on our personal taste. I am certain the DCX folks are just crazy about their machines. My like for the Odyssey could change upon a major problem cropping up. All I can say in conclusion is that if any one of you DCX troops would like to do a side by side quality comparison you have a deal!

    Can't we all just get along?
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    When you realize the Odyssey is a totally new design with state of the art features and dealers can't charge above MRSP

    I thought they all charged above MSRP. :confuse: At least that what I always hear you pushing when you compare costs.

    and they're not gaining much market share???

    And they aren't discounting like crazy. Looks like the T&C has slowed down. Not +87% but +31% for the year to date oh no. Also the Dodge brand is down -4% year to date. Do we really want market share?? No I think they like the good margins!!

    Whereas the Dodge is a more mature design?

    Your right a little old for my tastes!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I have made close comparison of Odd EX, GC SXT, and Sienna LE. Odd EX has most comfortable 2nd row seats but costs too much in comparison. GC SXT has separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger AND complete overhead console - less the Instant Economy reading of my 02 T&C LX and costs the least of the 3. Sienna LE has THE MOST Attractive instrument cluster, most attractive interior, most cargo space behind 3rd row seat, and the most responsive engine/transmission and the dealer has the best inventory in the price range I would pay. ;)
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Odyssey has automatic climate control for driver and front seat passenger and manual but separate climate control for the rear. Sienna XLE has automatic three zone climate control. The Honda had more get up and go than did the Sienna I drove back to back.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    As a curiosity I went onto both Chrysler's and Toyota sites this morning to check on 2005 left over stock. I found 12 T&C models at the first four dealers I researched. There are 135 2005 Siennas in stock around this area. 2005 Odyssey = 0.

    No editiorial comment.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    In the Big Picture, does it really matter? In the end if DCX builds 500,000 Minivan, they'll find homes eventually. Same for Honda or Toyota or GM. We'll see in few months the final 2005 figures and then the editorials can start.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'm not sure what sales/inventory has to do with which van is better for someone trying to make a decision. I personally prefer to drive something that's not on every corner, so high sales volume is a negative to me ;)

    We're talking two very different companys. Honda (and Toyota) both slowly grow their sales. Their production methods allow them to do this which ensures maximium profits. Was the Accord/Camry the top sellers when they were first introduced? No way. After 10-15 years it's a competely different story.

    Inventory is carefully controlled by Honda. They don't even normally offer incentives to move out the last because they space their production. They're quite effective at it, even on the high volume models you'll see very little year-end incentives. There's $3,000 rebate on the T&C right now and quite a few to pick from. I've been shopping for a new truck ($5500 rebate plus I can get employee price isn't bad...) and there are at least 3-5 2005 vans at the Dodge dealers I've been searching inventory on. There's not even any marketing support for the Honda dealers to push the Odys so I'd have to say the '05 inventory is pretty much gone.

    But the point is, Honda will sell more for a greater profit while DC will produce whatever number covers their fixed overhead and then push incentives to move them. It's a problem all the domestics are stuck with, called excess capacity.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I was not implying anything. My point was to refute an earlier message claiming all the 2005 DCX minivans flew off dealers lots during the big summer sales. Obviously not.

    Who cares what van you drive? You do. It is not my business nor anyone else on here. Most people come here looking for first hand owner information to help them make an informed choice. Sniping at each other does not help anyone.
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