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They're not luxury cars. What Edmunds considers a luxury car
People gave Volvo no respect for decades and then they came out with the 850 Turbo.
And Volvo still doesn't get respect.
RX-8 appeals to a niche audience. The back seat is unusable, while in the IS250 it's barely useable. Unless you're driving pygmies around all day. The RX-8 gets you Mazda service, while the IS250 gets you Lexus service. The RX-8 wins as a better track vehicle, the IS250 with AWD wins as a better street vehicle. The RX-8 has to be revved to the moon to get horsepower. If 100% of your driving is on the track, I agree RX-8 wins. For the rest of us....
The 5 has been the consistent sales leader in this segment. Maybe BMW is giving the people what they want, although I can certainly understand why this car isn't for you.
Smoother, quieter ride. G had a bit too much road/wind noise. And while the engine growl is kinda lovely, I just heard it too much.
Better styling, both exterior and interior. Higher quality interior bits and pieces.
Better mpg (child of "gas crisis" '70s...)
I didn't really want the added weight/complexity of AWD. I'm a lifelong New Englander and skier, FWD has just done me fine (until the TL! Another story, but get snow tires...)
Of course, this was Gen 1 G35. Fun to drive, powerful and I'm sure had I chosen it I'd be all smiles. But, my priorities ruled in the TLs favor. And I still dig it!
As Gen 2 G is an improvement, just test drive the heck out of each of 'em. No wrong decision will be made. Also, note that a new gen TL is just down the road...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Those people who aspire to drive an Audi or BMW or Lexus must not have access to autotrader or used cars? Average sale price of cars is 30k. A 3 series moderately outfitted can run less than that. Audi's go in the 20s. Shrug. With the explosion of 30k+ SUVS and Crossovers, I doubt anyone really aspires to drive a Lexus or Bimmer.
For 52k, I can get an almost fully loaded GS350. For the same amount, I am not going to get the same options in the 528, now, given that the GS350 is faster than the 528, I think the Lex is a better buy. I dont believe one should drive a car that is worth 50k and have cheaper cars, run circles around such a car. This to me is totaly unacceptable. If one pays 50k, you need a car that has everything else that the cheaper cars have, plus more. The GS350 gives you that, the 528 does not.
I believe BMW makes good cars, but the pricing does not make sense to me, I attribute the higher prices to lack of the economies of scale that Nissan and Toyota has, since their luxury brands share the same parts as the parent company's cars.
...of shopping skills?
educate me
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Why not just get a Buick and save $20,000?
There's nothing like a BMW I-6. It may not be quick, but my friend's E36 325ic (5-speed MT) is a joy to drive just for the sound and feel of that engine. Puts a smile on my face every I drive it.
These stoplight drag racers just don't get it.
So, when it comes to shopping for BMWs there are good shoppers and there's everybody else...
As for the lesser HP, not everyone uses it so in this case, BMW is a different animal. The US cars I've owned and driven needed the top engine because the base available was SERIOUSLY underpowered....not so with BMW. The power difference is marginal.
Regards,
OW
See above posts by you
Question: How much of a diff. is there between the TL compared to the TL-S with regard to how smooth the car rides, handles, etc. Also how does the G-35x compare to its other models the G-35 Journey, etc.
My girlfriend is the same as your wife riorebel, she hates all American cars (except the Corvette) and she hates Toyotas. I think the hate for Toyotas stems from her having a bad experience with a Corolla (her first car) like 10 years ago (I think it was a '92). She doesn't even want me to look at Lexus. On a side note, my parents have been buying Toyotas for the past 10 years and love them. My mom drives a '97 Avalon (bought brand new in '97), and has only put 32,000 on it in the last 10-11 years (she just pretty much goes to the store and goes home).
riorebel, thanks for the SEC support. Honestly I cheer for every team in the SEC except AUBURN. As much as BAMA fans hate AUBURN, I would have to say LSU fans are right behind yall on that hate. Yall look to have a promising year (thanks to good recruiting), so good luck this year, except in Tiger Stadium.
Driving dynamics that were described in other posts are a matter of opinion. I will stick with facts here, the engine used in the Lexus 3.5 litre engine is in the wards top ten list, together with the 335i's engine. If you buy a 528i cos of driving dynamics, more power to you, I will buy the faster car, you can stick with your driving synamics behind me
I am in my late 20s, so gadgets are pretty important
I could have written that post. Back in '05 I felt the TL was just a little more refined with the G being more rough around the edges. I think now though that the G has really improved in the area of refinement and has probably surpassed the current TL. Can't wait to see the '09.
I am in my late 20s, so gadgets are pretty important
Different strokes. You are one of the few people who buy cars on stats. I don't. The looks, feel and performance are all factored in. I don't go for gadgets, but there are certain creature comforts I want.
If I buy a GS350 (again, I cant affors it ) is it not true that its going to have more gadgets, more power, more modern interior (the keyless thing among other things) than a 528i. Thats got nothing to do with stats but is the reality. The more I pay, the more I need, that includes power and everything else that comes with it. Driving dynamics is something I will define, I will not let anyone else define it for me.
Driving dynamics is a point you can raise for the comparison btwn a 535i to a GS350, there the dynamics come into play, certainly not for the 528i. I can assure you the driver of the GS350 is going to feel pretty good smoking that 528i
Another remarkable example- I saw a Mazda Miata beat a Ferrari and Porsche on Motorsport TV last Saturday-expalin that to me?
I like the TL enough that I still pop in here from time to time, but me and my love for the G can't stand a chance against all these TL lovers.
Ask the same question in the G forum and you'll get the exact opposite response.
I still like these guys in the TL forum... even with their less than perfect choice in vehicle. :P
One can probably get a GS350 close to invoice now a days so that's already something like 4k below MSRP.
By the way, does BMW pay for my ticket to Germany and all the room and boards? If not then maybe one should take that into consideration in order to make an apple to apple comparison which a good shopper always does.
Also, let's not forget the rental car fee if this is your only car because I believe with ED one would have to turn in the car at the time of purchase if a trade-in is involved. Because the car doesn't arrive until something like 4 weeks after you took delivery in Germany.
A smart and good shopper always takes every single penny into the consideration.
It's called a vacation. Some people take those. Sadly in the US we don't get nearly enough PTO. My last vacation was two weeks in Thailand in Nov, 07. Before that I spent a few weeks in Europe for my 06 ED. Whether I get a car or not, another trip to Europe will be in the cards.
Also, let's not forget the rental car fee if this is your only car because I believe with ED one would have to turn in the car at the time of purchase if a trade-in is involved.
There's a word for someone that trades in cars on purchase. Barnum used it...what is that word...
A smart and good shopper always takes every single penny into the consideration.
I could break all that down for you too but it'll get boring. Needless to say, Frequent Flyer miles are easy to create with credit cards and free hotel stays and/or great deals are easy to find too.
If Fanboys simply scream that "X is better than Y" becuause Motor Trend and CR said so, so I bought "X," well, stay away from Syms. Because "An educated consumer is the best customer...!"
1st Gen G, great car. An eye-opener in Munich no doubt. Gen 2, a lovel evolution. Hello, 300hp 3 series! Let's see what Honda does w/next gen TL...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Thanks
I usually go somewhere else for vacations other than Europe. Also, what if my car buying schedule doesn't agree with my vacation schedule?
Frequent Flyer miles are easy to create with credit cards and free hotel stays and/or great deals are easy to find too.
I have frequent flyer miles too but I would rather use them for my "real vacations" instead of going to Europe and pick up the car. Also, I rather use my credit cards to create more meaningful incentives such as racking up thousands of dollars for my next Lexus purchase.
I understand that based on YOUR lifestyle ED is certainly a good and smart option for car shopping. However, let's keep in mind that it may not be the case across the board for every car shoppers out there.
The GS is no 5er but it'll hold its own on curvy and hilly roads.
I've tried a GS350 through an autoX type of course before, although it is a bit on the soft side but it went through the course smoothly.
There is a general tendency for the X28i to be overrated, yes its a BMW but its not the real deal, the real deal is the X35i. I have respect for that car, its fast and if you tell me its got better driving dynamics, heck, I will believe you. In addition, you probably paid more than anyone else driving the ELLPS so you deserve to be faster. It boils down to the "more money I pay, more I need" argument. With the kind of performance you get for the X35i, the lack of other options available on other ELLPS becomes petty. Not on the X28i though
I'm not defending the X2.8 but clearly this is your humble opinion. I agree specificially with regards to you, you should pay more for more horsepower. Everybody doesn't think like that and BMW recognizes this.
Some time in the next year I'll be buying a new car, and the top five contenders are as follows:
1) Audi 2.0T 6-Speed S-Line (via European Delivery)
2) 2001-2003 BMW 530i Sedan 5-Speed Sport Package
3) BMW 328i Coupe 6-Speed Sport Package (via European Delivery)
4) BMW 328i Sedan 6-Speed Sport Package (via European Delivery)
2) 2001-2002 BMW 540i Sedan 6-Speed Sport Package
Notice that every one of those cars can be had with a bigger/badder/faster (and thirstier) engine. FWIW, the only reason why the 540i is on the list is that I really like E39s with a stick shift and lots of other goodies, goodies that are often hard to find in the 530i but yet seem to be on virtually every 540i from that vintage.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I agree speed is not everyone's concern, like I said, I want everything I can get for my money, that includes power, toys, luxury. I only consider cars within the ELLPS though, thats what I drive
That being said, I am very happy with my choice, and I don't regret it in the least.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Oh well, whatever floats your boat grandpa.
Now how about the A3 or IS250 comparison. I still insist its a tough choice
Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full.
I've owned two straight sixes in my life, and both were wonderful. One was in my 240Z and the other was my Cummins 350. I owned them both at the same time, and the switch between them was interesting, but pleasant.
I wanted the third to be a BMW, but I've bored many with my rants on RFTs and the dipstick thing (how far away is the sealed hood -- only the dealer can open it?). So, not for now.
Maybe later. We'll see.
Or not. Well that not entirely true it's .2 seconds faster for having 100 more hp.
Yeah, that's the spirit, keep it up so people will just turn their backs to this board...
I am in my 20s, although I wouldn't want a GS/5/E right now but I can understand why those who does. Different people have different priorities you know, grandpa!
Like fed, nyccarguy has been on these boards for a long time and does have a sense of humor, newbie
I like reading your posts Louiswei (you provide good balance around here), but you need to lighten up a little.
I mind my P's and Q's when I'm at the office or at a formal social - but around here, I don't feel obliged to frame my thoughts and carefully phrase them to ensure I don't ruffle anyone's feathers.
If someone doesn't like the heat, I'm fine with them staying out of the kitchen. In Sjaieve's case, I think he expressed himself quite well and doesn't need a big brother to step in.
Ok, time to recharge my flamethrower. Who's next?
To be honest, there is a difference between "lighten up a little" and "belittle the fellow posters due to different point of view". Maybe I had the wrong interpretation but that doesn't mean I can't voice my differences.
Yeah, keep your flamethrower charged up because you'll need it if you keep it up.