Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

2233 · August 2010

Infiniti stepped up with me and replaced a second set of pads and rotors. The terms of the class action suit did not require this nor were they required to do anything on the 2007 Infiniti.

That is the difference between Acura and Infiniti in my experience.

I am commenting only on my experiences with these 2 companies. I

Infiniti has resolved their issues. Has Acura?

If you checked my other posts re this issue, my extended family was about as loyal to Acura/Honda as anyone in this country. I owned a total of 8 Honda/Acuras, my parents owned 2, and my 3 brothers owned a total of about 10. My brother worked for Enterprise Car Rental and purchased over 50 Hondas from our local dealership.

My driveway looked like a Acura/Honda dealership at Thanksgiving.

You would think that Acura would be a little accomodating and pay for half of my transmission repair. It might have cost them $1,000.

My brother is shopping for SUVs as we speak and he has eliminated Honda/Acura in his search. I just bought an Altima Friday for my daughter. My other brother is looking for a sedan and has also eliminated this brand.

That's 3 lost sales in 3 weeks and more lost sales are forthcoming.

Good move Acura.

tlong · August 2010

Is that transmission a manual or auto?

I thought all the tranny failures for Honda/Acura were related to the Auto.

My 100K miles on my '05 Acura TL is an automatic. The car has been rock solid from a reliability perspective.

smarty666 · August 2010

I'd suggest you re-read the class action lawsuit b/c it DOES REQUIRE them to replace the brakes and rotors on the opposite axle to the drive under warranty! Since the G35 and FX35 in my case, was RWD, this covered the front brakes/rotors. I had them replaced and resurfaced for free at 10k, 20k, 30k, and 40k. Thats four times! When the rear brakes/rotors started having troubles at 20k, was told by TWO SEPARATE Infiniti stealers that, "oh, the rear's were not covered under the class action suit b/c the vehicles were RWD!" Called Infiniti headquarters who only confirmed what the stealers told me and despite all my problems with the fronts, even though I was still under warranty would do nothing to help pay for the rear brakes/rotors.

Yeah, great customer service! Infiniti does not step up to the plate when it truly matters! That is why they are ranked at the bottom of the luxury customer service list by JD Power!

No matter what automaker, you shouldn't be having brake/rotor issues at those kind of low miles anyway if they are made and put together properly. What is sad is that Infiniti could not step up to the plate until being legally forced to and actually had the nerve to tell 2003-2006 G35 and 2003-2006 FX owners that they had to pay out of pocket for brakes/rotors being shot at 7-10k miles as NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR!

We used to have a lot of Nissan/Infiniti in my family, like you did with Honda/Acura and none so far have gone back to Infiniti and replaced them with Acura's, Lexus's, and BMW's.

duke39 · August 2010

I test drove the new TL last year

The torque steer in the TL was so bad that I felt that I affected my control of the vehicle when it was driven aggressively.

The TL tries to portray itself as a performance luxury car but it can never be a performance car with all the torque steer. If you never drive in a sporty and aggressive manner then the torque steer will not matter. But if your hoping to have a fun vehicle to drive, there are much better choices out there.

A car with this much power cannot effectively use the front wheels for steering, handling and delivering power to the front end.

I found the handling way too jittery.

smarty666 · August 2010

I've felt some torque steer but nothing to the dramatic extent your describing. It is easy to compensate for by just having two hands on the wheel when accelerating fast. Its not perfect but its not terrible either. I have the 3G Base so I can only speak for that vehicle. The Type-S had the bigger engine and displacement so I assume maybe that could have more severe torque steer.

One thing I give Nissan credit for in the new Maxima, is they have virtually eliminated torque steer. A pretty impressive feet for a car with 290HP/261 lbs of torque in a FWD set-up. I have felt little to none under brisk acceleration since having it. Can't speak for the new TL since I don't have one if Acura was able to improve upon that compared to the last Gen TL.

2233 · August 2010

smarty 666,

My point was that Infiniti made several repairs to our vehicles after the warranty expired and well after any mandate required them to do.

Acura did not. Their refusal to equitably share in the repairs of the transmission occurred after we presented, in wiriting and in great detail, our documented complaints over 5 years on this transmission.

This is my experience. Yours may be different. It seems we are both "car guys" with differing experiences who can engage in lively discussions but with different opinions.

Acura is clearly having sales problems with their TL. That is not in dispute. Hopefully these discussion are read by them and they can return Acura to their prior level of quality and desirability. Hopefully Acura, Infiniti, BMW, et al read these posts and attempt to improve their transmissions, brakes, engines etc and provide better and safer cars for their customers.

Loyalty is important to me and my extended family and it should run both ways. I'm sure you feel the same way.

smarty666 · August 2010

Couldn't agree with your last post more! I personally, after seeing first hand how the sales animals treat you, have no brand loyalty. I go where ever I like the vehicles, get the best price, treatment, etc. B/C at the end of the day, there is no brand loyalty. When you walk in to the salesman, no matter how long you've been with them, they treat you as if your there for the first time and try to screw you over. I've had it time and time again with multiple automakers.

I'm sorry to hear Acura was not willing to step up and back you up. Its quite a shame. I had the same experience with Infiniti not stepping up and helping me so I guess we were the victims of the same mistreatment, just by different companies!

It is a shame with the sales figures of the new TL. I too was turned away from getting one, b/c of the size increase and ugly grill, hence why I got a new Maxima, so hopefully they get the message on that one and the next gen TL will be back on track. So far, my Maxima has been fun to drive, and after 12k miles, I'm happy to say, no rotor/brake issues like I have on my FX35! Its a good thing for the class action lawsuit so that all my brake/rotor fixes were covered b/c that would have added up quickly and really hurt the bank.

I'm glad, though I can't understand why it took Nissan and Infiniti over 5 years to finally put the proper type of brakes and rotors on their vehicles, that they finally have had their brake/rotor issues solved. Before 2009, it was a really serious problem on both Infiniti and Nissan vehicles. I know the 2007 and 2008 Altima's had major troubles with wear as well, but so far, since 2009 model years, I've read very few brake/rotor issues compared to years previous!

It only goes to help us!

2233 · August 2010

I really like the new Maxima. It resembles the M37 a great deal. I didn't test drive one when searching for a car for my daughter since it was priced higher than the Altima but it's alot less expensive than the M37.

Infinti's brake issues existed from 2003 to 2006 in the G. They changed the design and the pad for the 2007 model and no problems with my wife's 2007. I'm not up to speed on the FX though.

I'm looking for a new car in 2011 or 2012. I think the FX is the best looking SUV ever made but some find it not attractive.

Speaking of sleazy salesmen, we test drove a Camry last week also. The salesman knew me somewhat for many years having sold me a Toyotal Supra back in the 90s. He knew that I was an informed consumer.

When we spoke about price, I mentioned that the dealership of a competing brand was cutting the holdback and crediting it to us in their price. He first said he never heard of "holdback" and when I chuckled he later said Toyota only pays $200 for holdback.
I corrected him and informed him that the holdback was more than double that.

We walked out. You'd think that an experienced Toyota salesman would have more sense and class but I guess I give some car salemen too much credit.

ctl · August 2010

A potential TL buyer here. I would think the TL auto trans. issue is history by now, after all, they have been on the same 5 speed all these time! one would think... I wish for the new 6 speed but is a bit worried, almost everyone (benz 7, infiniti 7, toyota 6, has had issue with their newer version of auto trans when it first came out.

Funny all the bittering on infiniti brake pad... now all the issues with 2008-2009 Accord brake pads (consistantly short lived, avg. 20K) makes me wonder about the TL brake pads. Haven't heard much about it yet, but watching closely.

2233 · August 2010

I would wait until the current body style of the TL is out for at least 4 years to assess the potential transmission issues.

Remember, the 2000 + TLs took about 4 years to manifest themselves as did the MDX.

tlong · August 2010

Is the current TL transmission the same as in the '04-'09 models?

sweendogy · August 2010

comments on CR reliability charts and dealership experinace==

On consumer reports-- I use them for almost everything I buy, from Toasters, Tvs and cars-- i think its a great paid service that does have merit. The break and transmission issues on both the tl and infiniti-- its all about luck when getting a car - most cars have something thats going to be problem (or reported as a problem by the owners)-- no one builds a perfect car (but the accord/civic have been close).

On dealerships-- well i''ve owned both acura and infiniti.. Acura has a better overall setup and you feel wanted when you drop your car off -(2 dealerships i've visited, for oilchanges only, dam i miss the GS-R)- this is my
Infiniti -- well i bought my G35 at a small dealership in the middle of nowhere and they have great service but the larger in-town dealership is cold, mass marketed, non-user friendly monster.
I think its more about who owns the dealership and where its located.

smarty666 · August 2010

As far as I know, the brake/rotor wear issues are mostly contained to the 2008-2010 Accord. I haven't heard similar problems with the 2009+ TL which I believe uses different pads/rotors from the Accord. Don't quote me on that since I don't have the new TL and not sure what was changed or not changed. But I know that current gen Accord owners are going through hell with Honda on the brake/rotor issues and Honda has not done a great job of stepping up and helping people until being forced to legally or with severe pressure from corporate Honda. Such a shame.

From my own experience, both my 2006 and 2008 TL have had absolutely no brake/rotor issues at all.

billyperks2 · August 2010

2009 TL AWD- 1 year and 1 week of ownership, absolutley no brake or rotar issues.

ctl · August 2010

The current TL auto-trans 5speed is the same one Honda used across the board (RL, TL, Accord, Civic...), since 2000 TL! On one hand they would probably have made it to perfection by now. On the other, one would think they have extincted by now, lagging behind virtually the whole industry in the transmission area! Amazing stubbornness or confidence? :mad: maybe also they were bite hard by the early trans. issue and being cautious.

As to the brake pad, if I have to bet, I would take that they share the design and parts with Account, at least the FWD version. Will be great if they didn't, but the jury is still out on this one.

sweendogy · August 2010

ok, good stuff.. i would hope not its a year old-- how many miles >?

Kirstie_H · August 2010

That is actually my major complaint with my G35 - it chews through brake pads & rotors more than any other vehicle I've owned.

Of course my major complaint at the moment is that it handles so poorly in the snow, but I knew that when I bought it. I just didn't have a lifestyle then that made it matter.

smarty666 · August 2010

I know exactly what your going through kristie and I feel for you. Its such a shame b/c except for the brake/rotor issues, my FX35 has been flawless and such a blast to have and drive!

Luckily, all the repairs were covered under warranty by Infiniti, after the lawsuits of course, but so far, since 2009, I've read very few complaints from G and FX owners having brake/rotor issues. For 2009, Infiniti put different pads/rotors on which so far looks like solved the problems from 2003-2008 model years.

Wish it didn't have to take that long but it is what it is. Sad to see Honda is doing the same thing to its Accord customers now!

jtla · August 2010

Kirstie, you may have missed my original post, so I am re-posting this request.

Currently, when one checking on G37 Forum and Discussion, this thread is not on the list. I believe this will prevent some current G37 owners from participate in this discussion.

jtla · August 2010

Kirstie, you may have missed my original post, so I am posting this request again.

Currently, when one checking on G37 Forum and Discussion, this thread is not on the list. I believe this will some prevent current G37 owners from participate in this discussion.

Kirstie_H · August 2010

Yes, I did see it - it's just not something that I can fix. It has been brought to the attention of those who CAN fix it, so I'm sure it is "on the list."

sweendogy · August 2010

i've had the front rotors resurfaced under warantee once at 17k miles- I thought that was a bit early... now at 22k they tell me I need rear breaks during my next oil change so I agree with you. I dont have the problem in the snow due to the fact my car is the awd-- i'm assuming you have the RWD if so it prob would handle better in the snow with a good set of snow tires.

my only other grip is the MPGS-

Kirstie_H · August 2010

Mine has 106K on it, so I doubt anyone will cover anything under warranty. And, considering I haven't spent a dime on the vehicle in repairs (just maintenance, wear-and-tear items), the brake issue is relatively acceptable.

It's not the reason I'm likely trading in, but the snow issue is. I used to live in a suburban area, with restaurants, a bar, grocery store, and movie rental place less than 0.2 miles away - easy walking. Now I live in a more country-like setting, with nothing in walking distance, and the roads in the area just aren't great, nor do they get plowed well. Better tires would help, but not enough. 2 of our 3 vehicles don't go anywhere when it snows (both RWD), so I'm considering trading in before Winter hits. Last year was one of the 3 snowiest years on record here, so that's probably affecting my decision.

MPGs aren't fantastic, but I currently do so little driving that it isn't a big deal.

pv2 · August 2010

Since you have a manual transmission, your car probably came with summer performance tires which are useless in the snow. Suggest you change to an all season performance tire. I have an '07 TL-S with auto, so it came with Michelin HX-MXMV all season performance tires and they work well in anything under a 6 inch snowfall. The other alternative is to havea separate set of winter tires and rims, but that can be expensive. You'll be sacrificing a tiny bit of dry performance at the limit, but that shouldn't be a big issue unless you drive very aggressily. Good luck.

Kirstie_H · August 2010

It's an auto, and I did change the tires.

I've had it since 2006, and it's been a great car. In fact, I've owned few, if any, cars for this long, so it doesn't bother me to start thinking about trading. Even *if* I could get it to perform OK in snow, I'd still prefer something that performs *well* in snow. Plus, we're kind of looking to make mine the "middle car" balance. We've got a Crossfire and a giant pick-up truck, which will likely be traded in on an even more giant pick-up truck. I'll probably looking at something that is AWD and can do some very light (waverunner) towing, but if that happens, I'll not bore this discussion's members with it.

billyperks2 · August 2010

" i would hope not its a year old"
What are you trying to say here?
It only has 6k miles- took it up state Connecticut yesterday and I had a blast on those 65 mph freeways.

sweendogy · August 2010

what i was trying to say: you were reporting on brake pad wear on a new car (6 months old, with 6k miles) - i would hope that it would have no issues, given its age. Enjoy the CT freeways, remember to buckle up, "click it or ticket."

laurasdada · August 2010

Hello: 2005 TL, ~74k miles, no issues to report, tranny or otherwise. Great car, still a looker, imho. Knock wood...

Merritt Parkway, Billy? Love that road.

billyperks2 · August 2010

I rather the I-95, my wife is a Merritt Parkway lover- no trucks allowed.
Also too many deers jumping out of no where, a co-worker of mine had just bought a Chrysler Pacific. I think, if memory serves me right, it was her second day of ownership and going home that evening a deer got the better of her front bumper.

sweendogy · August 2010

billy- your better off on 95, more lanes and much safer but i must disagree if you really love to drive............

Laura and billys wife, I concur the merrit parkway is the better way to go for people who want to test nerves, speed (less cops), turns, and have the opportunity to test out how the car truly performs.. very few north east roads are as long and secluded. 95 is the most traveled Northeast road -- more cops - straight/ugly/ traffic.

nyccarguy · August 2010

the merritt everyday & my '01 Prelude Type SH loves every second of it

laurasdada · September 2010

I lived (left CT many moons ago) just off the Merritt, but would go out of my way to drive it over 95. No commercial traffic, beauty (interesting bridges), curves and undulations, just a nice drive! Exit 41, how I miss ye!

I'm sure my '05 TL would agree. Anyone here old enough to remember the Greenwich tolls on the Merritt?

sweendogy · September 2010

laura dont remember the greenwitch tool but do remember the 25cent tool on the hutch. you must really like to drive if you would go out of your way to test your skills on the merrit.... kudos to you..

weidnerlaw · September 2010

I spent months researching performance sedans, Lexus, Audi, BMW, Acura. The fit and finish, initial appearance and value of CTS sold me so I took delivery about a week ago.
Importantly, my local dealer, Dew Caddilac in St. Petersburg, Florida bent over backwards to exceed my expectations. We'll see how the car goes as the months lead on, but for now at least I'm super excited and pleased to be part of an American car buying experience.

ivan_99 · September 2010

Congrats, beautiful car.

nyccarguy · September 2010

Congrats! Nice car dude! What color did you get?

2233 · September 2010

As was mentioned by someone else, this thread is not listed on the Infiniti page.

2233 · September 2010

After a terrible experience with Acura Customer Service re my TL transmission failing, I sold my TL for salvage.

Acura offerred to pay $500 out of $5100 for a new tranny. what a joke.

I wrote them last week and said they could instead send me a check for $500 and I would not be so disgruntled. After an Ingrid said she would try to accomodate this request, she phoned me today and so they would not issue me a check for $500. Shows that they just escalated the tranny price.

Smooth move Acura. I would have bought my daughter a new Accord last week but instead I bought her a new Altima.

My brother was considering an MDX and he will buy either a Lexus, Infiniti, or Nissan.

My other brother just bought a G37 instead of a TL.

This $500 cost Acura/Honda 3 new car sales with more to come. Unbelievable and incredibly short sighted.

smarty666 · September 2010

I'm just curious, what model year and how many miles did your TL have when the tranny blew?

sanish · September 2010

http://www.acura.com/ModelLanding.aspx?model=TL&modelYear=2011

jtla · September 2010

Look again. There is (#6 on the list)!!

2011 TL choices

Edit: I automatically thought about 6-speed manual transmission. Did you mean 6-speed automatic transmission? In that case, you are right. I guess you have to wait until mid-cycle refresh.

smarty666 · September 2010

We are expecting it for the MMC 2012 TL refreshing which has been pushed up 6 months early to April or May 2011. The 2011 TL is only going to have a short 6-8 month time frame rather than the normal 1 yr.

Thank the lord the grill is being reduced and changed for the 2012 TL since that seems to be most people's gripes, mine included.

nyccarguy · September 2010

You know, it is hard to tell, but I believe in ACura's marketing materials (website, brochures) they have the accessory sport grill on the TL. Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

billyperks2 · September 2010

Isn't the sport grill and the regular grill the same only different colors?
I love my grill- looks real aggresive on the highways!!!!!

sweendogy · September 2010

Good to see acura addressing it's beak problems - 4 years into the current car- just wondering why it took so long- same could be said of the transmission I guess. 30k cars a year had to be born with that beak__ if they only held some focus groups before they released this car they would still be considered a player. Maybe 2012s will bring back the brand. Enjoy the CT highways billy

sweendogy · September 2010

http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/spy-photos/spied!-2012-acura-tl

billyperks2 · September 2010

I will be the first one at the dealer+ to swap my grill out- yeah right.
I will be the first one at dealer to swap my quad pipes out- yeah right.

sweendogy · September 2010

not with all your modifications I agree but it looks like the word is getting to acura design team

gbosil · September 2010

It's still ugly as all get out! I can't wait for the new redesign!!! Not sure where Acura is going here with their designs but obviously the sales numbers are proving nowhere! My 2007 TLS will hopefully be replaced with it...hopefully.. with my fingers crossed! I love Acura in fact recently purchased a second car 2010 TSX Tech Blk / Tan. Love the car! It was more subdued than the TL. The TL is just too bulky and drove like a caddie on steroids! Oh well... enough of my bitchin'. Acura please make the next gen TL more appealing!!!

billyperks2 · September 2010

I had the TSX for a loaner- 2010 V6, while they were installing several accessories on my TL- nice car for a recent college grad, but I could not wait to back in my TL.
You also mentioned that the TL drove like a caddy-did you drive the AWD? That car does not have the slightest feel of a caddy (maybe the V-series). I was watching the speed channell and saw where they were revieiwing the TL AWD. It was a proffesional formula one driver and the host driving seperate TL's.These guys were punishing the cars, raving on how well the car handles for its size.

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