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If those are your 2 primary concerns, i would
very strongly urge you to try for yourself -
as these both can be highly subjective -
and will often depend on your size, weight & build.
I rented a CTS a few years ago, and did not
find big issues with either of these aspects.
- Ray
YMMV
First the TSX is a European Accord, not one from Japan.
The IS and Corrolla have NOTHING in common, first the IS is rear wheel drive and has a V6, the Corrolle is FWD.
The First Gen IS is known in Japan as the Altezza.
The 2nd Gen is not sold in Japan
The G37 and 370Z are not the same car. They share some of the FM platform but that is about it, the 370Z wheelbase is about a foot shorter then the G37s.
The CTS is a great looking car but is not screwed together very well. The Resale value of the CTS is horrible, about 45% after 3 years. The IS, G37 and the TSX are between 51 to 55% after 3 years, BMW has the highest resale value.
Regarding service, BMW has 4 yr or 50K miles bumper to bumper maintence as service on thier cars. My 2005 330i needed a new clutch, fully covered under BMWs warrenty, can't do that at Mr.GoodWrench..
the CTS is not the same size as the E class or 5 Series, the CTS is inline with the 3 series. Regarding the Nav system in the MB, which model are you talking about?
Before coming on to a public forum and giving false into and trying to be a expert, get your facts correct...
Cadillac CTS vs. BMW 3-Series
Model Year 2011 2011
Model CTS 3-Series
Body 4dr Sedan 4dr Sedan
Wheelbase 113.4 108.7
Length 191.6 178.2
Width 72.5 71.5
= = =
Specifications Comparison
Cadillac CTS vs. BMW 5-Series
Model Year 2011 2011
Model CTS 5-Series
Body 4dr Sedan 4dr Sedan
Wheelbase 113.4 116.9
Length 191.6 193.1
Width 72.5 73.2
I went to Jamaica on vacation and saw the TSX badged as an Accord, does that make it a Jamaican Accord?
That's putting it lightly. Even the Edmunds long term CTS tester became a rattle trap galore with parts falling apart in its first year. I've found that to be typical with domestic vehicles.
It drove OK, I much preferred the Acuras, Infinitis, Audi's, and BMW's.
Brake pads and rotors often require service prior to 4 years. Does BMW typically pay for repairs such as this under this program. Or are their services usually limited to oil changes and/or major repairs?
How difficult is it to obtain what they might consider discretionary repairs such as brakes?
The rear brakes on our first 3-series went at 30K miles.. no charge..
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
As far as I can see, I only have 2 power outlets, 1 in the console and the other under the glove compartment...which 3 series models have them in the trunk and dual outlets on the rear of the
console, facing the back seat passengers? I also wondered why seat back cargo nets are still
offered on some 3 series vehicles and not on others and why there is no electronic compass on
the mirror if you have the navigation package, or why the heated steering wheel is deleted if you have the M Sport package.....All this does not make much sense.
If anyone has answers, let me know.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
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As for reliability, my parents have owned a standard model with the smaller 3.0L engine in it and it's been flawless. Not a single problem at all in the first year that they've owned it.
And even if something does go wrong, it's a lot less than a Mercedes to fix.
Lastly, yes, I know the Japanese companies play around with names and so on, but the comments are all too true. The G37 does share enough DNA with the Z that it's just not possible to hide the fact that it's a modified Nissan Z. And The IS, while it's not *exactly* based upon a Corolla, it's small like one and shares a lot of the same designers behind it. Kind of how a Buick is well, a Buick, even if they come in different sizes.
Based on that logic, the Austin A40 my parents had when I was a kid, and the Ferrari Daytona are similar because they share the same designer. And of course, the current range of Bentleys are just glorified VWs.
Just because the Lexus IS is slightly bigger then a Corolla doesn't mean its the same car, again one is FWD the other is RWD, one has a 4 cyl and the other is a 6 cyl...
We go by that logic then Cadillac's are glorified Buick's as they both share platforms. Because a car shares some components with another does not make it look or behave like one.
They toned down the suspension on the G37 and added some leather, but it's still a pretty plastic interior and drives more akin to a muscle car than a real sports sedan. It's great in a straight line, but that's about it, really.
Is it entry-level luxury? I'd say not. It fails that half of the equation, because almost every car these days can be had with leather and NAV, and so you have to look further and be a bit more discerning in what exactly "luxury" means aside from leather and a high price tag.
Therefore, SEATs and Skodas are cheaper, but better built, VWs. Audis are dearer VWs and Lamborghini, Bugatti and Porsche are merely faster VWs. Jaguar and Land Rover are merely upmarket TATAs and Ferrari and Maserati are very quick, and expensive, Fiats. Rolls Royce ? Upscale BMWs. Vauxhall/Opel/Holden ? Rebodied GM-parts bin cars.
Once you get past the SEAT, Skoda and Audi brands, (which basically are re-worked VWs), the logic falls apart pretty rapidly; although there are some component commonalities in amongst the others and their brand-owners mainstream offerings. Way of the world and none the worse for it.
By the way, I learned to drive in an Austin A40. Nice little motor, for its day.
Funny though how the 3-Series is constantly compared to the G37 in comparison tests. I guess the BMW is a muscle car too, lol. If the G37 is not an entry level luxury sedan than the CTS is most certainly not. Except for the BMW which I felt had a slight advantage over the G in handling off the highway, no Caddy handles better than the 3-Series or G37 do at their price range. You want sports luxury, get a BMW, Infiniti, or Audi, plain and simple.
I test drove a couple of 3 series cars yesterday. It felt similar to a G37 but it seemed more tossable on curves and maybe a little more enjoyable to drive.
You do realize that you are probably the only person in the world that thinks that don't you?
At 3500-3600 lbs and a wheelbase that's just under two inches shorter than a Buick LaCrosse, the current 3 series is a bloated pig that's nothing like the older cars from the 90s. Which could still be called sport sedans.
What we have flooding the marketplace now are very heavy cars with big 300HP+ engines and long wheelbases. This is the definition of a muscle car, or it was back in the 60s and 70s.
2006 Buick LaCrosse
External dimensions:
198.1 length
73.0 Width
110.5 wheelbase
turning 35.8 ft
curb weight (lb) 3495 lbs
2011 BMW 335i sedan
External dimensions:
181.9 length
70.2 width
108.7 wheelbase (only 1.8 inches shorter)
turning 36.1 (larger? Wait - a FWD *Buick* turns better than a RWD BMW?)
curb weight: 3605 lbs. (heavier than a Buick?)
1991 BMW (E30 series)
170.3 Length
64.8 Width
101.2 wheelbase
turning 34.5
curb weight: 2900 lbs
Something's gone horribly wrong in the last 20 years. We're now content to call essentially Buick-size and weight muscle cars "sport sedans". :sick:
I love hearing people talk about how great the 60s muscles were, they were pigs, they were slow and they couldn't stop to save lives.
2011 Mustang GT V8 makes more HP then a 69 Mustang Boss 302, faster then a Boss 302, and gets better fuel mileage then the 69 Boss 302.
It's also soul-crushingly boring compared to the E30.
The E30 is a driver's car. The current 3 is a grocery getter.
It has gotten so bad that BMW was essentially forced to make the 1 series to remain competitive. The 1 series is at least pretty close to the E36, which is barely passable. A bit heavy, but workable with some weight reduction tricks and some aftermarket tweaks. I put the specs for the older E30, though, because it's really the benchmark for this class. Which every manufacturer seems to have simply ignored in the race to have more and more power. (same as the "Big 3" did in the 70s with Muscle cars).
Heavier than a Buick. That's just sad and as long as BMW keeps making cars that are heavier than rental-fodder Buicks, well, my comments about them being muscle cars stands.
The U.S. regs address a whole different series of things, mostly having to do with fools who don't follow directions (side-impact, anyone?, or how about air bags to protect morons who won't use seat belts?), while the Germans assume people who drive know what they're doing. They just do it at high speed.
When the two are combined, Porky the Pig results.
What fun! Is it any wonder that most of the people who write articles and participate in the BMW club magazine (Roundel) drive older cars?
As someone who had some of the "true muscle" of the 60s and 70s and currently drive a muscle car of today. I will never buy the older cars again, the cars today are much better put together (again I have first hand knowledge on this subject) they are faster, stop better and handle better.
So until you have first hand knowledge of the subject you talk about its all rambling from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
the most disturbing part is 20 years has gone by since 1991...
Although I did look at a TSX, it seemed a step down from the others I mentioned at the beginning of this post -- not a bad car, but more in line with an Audi A3 or perhaps an Infiniti G25 or a more basic version of some other car lines aspirational cars.
A point is that, to me, all of the cars in this class were contenders and I drove all of them (excluding the MB, why I can't recall). Three of the cars stood out as high performers (four, actually, but I'll get to that in a moment): the Acura TL SH-AWD Advance, the Audi A4 Prestige with Sport package and 8-spd Tiptronic and the Volvo S60 T6 with several packages to increase its lux content levels to that of the Audi and the Acura. The fourth car that didn't make it to the finals was the G37X S -- a car I wanted to want, since I am so impressed with my wife's 2011 FX35/Premium (to say nothing of the $1,000 loyalty bonus).
The G didn't make it because it seemed so much smaller than the rest. I later figured out why -- it is less than 70" wide, and it just seems cramped from behind the wheel. The TL, for instance is 74" wide and has a 63.8" track compared to the G's 60.2" track.
I made my decision, after 29 Audis in a row, based on price per month. I was ready to take (and I wanted) an Audi A4 first, the TL second and the Volvo third. I test drove the heck out of the cars (and I currently have a 2009 Audi A4 Prestige Sport) and determined that the Audi remained my fave (but, just barely, as the other two were very close.) Yet, both the Acura and the Volvo were so much more powerful and actually seemed larger than the Audi, which was a plus since I often have my in-laws in the back seat.
When all was said and done, the Audi came in nearly $200 per month higher for 6 months longer than the Acura and the Volvo was about the same as the Audi but for 36 months to the Audi's 42.
I took the lowest cost alternative -- and since it came in with the Advance package it is, MSRP wise, about the same as the Audi, but has a 305HP engine, although it lacks the Audis 8 speed transmission.
Having tested and previously having owned an Audi S4, I came away thinking the Acura TL SH-AWD (what a mouthful) was "somewhat closer" to an S4 than it is to an A4, and for $11,500 less with similar content.
Sorry for the long story, but I think you should have at least tested the TL, it is a completely different car than the TSX, and seems like it would be less likely to be cross shopped with an A4 or G37, etc. The TL, on the other hand at $47,000 with "the works" is about the same price and class as the A4 and G37 (and the CTS for that matter.)
In any case, in the entry level sport luxury class or whatever this is, most of these cars are winners. :surprise:
The E36 came out in 1991. The beginning of the end...
I am, at this point, unable to comment on squeaks and rattles and premature seat wear. Are your comments based on personal experience? A couple of people at my office have Acuras and their primary comment about the cars is "they are incredibly durable." Also, at this point, the retained value of the TL is among the highest of any vehicle -- hence its terrific lease programs. I got mine which listed for $47+K with one accessory, back up sensors, for $499 per month for 36 months plus tax.
If money were no object, I would get an Audi S4 Prestige with the Sport Diff (torque vectoring). Since money is an object, well, I went with the Acura which seemed like a very high value.
I'll let you know if things start rattling and wear out prematurely.
Fedlawman - If it wasn't for the E36, I might have never fallen in love with BMWs. The 1st BMW I ever drove was a close friend's 1995 E36 325is with 5-Speed Stick, Sport Package, & he told me he was able to get it lowered further from the factory (individual?). It made me feel like Superman behind the wheel.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I very much like certain things about the E36 too. I love the VANOS I-6 - it is so smooth and sweet sounding. And the comfort and amenities are a big step up from the E30.
And for the record, I think the TL is highly underrated on this forum. It may not be the best at anything, but it does so many things so very well.
What we have now is symptomatic of the bloat-until-it-assumes-the-previous-one-size-larger-model's-place progression that seems to infect all of the makers now. This is also identical to what was happening in the 70s. Bigger and bigger and oh my word that's a huge car all of a sudden...
The 1 series is kind of like a E26 V 2.0 in its weight and size. It's what I would consider a sports sedan, if a bit on the heavy side.
But what we have now as the current crop of cars are really big bloated grocery hauling machines that just are called "sporty" because they are the smallest whales in the pod and happen to have shiny rims and big wheels attached.
That said, the TSX simply doesn't belong as it's just a plain vanilla "Accord" to the rest of the world. Over here, they slap Acura badges on it and raise the price. It's front wheel drive, has a plain vanilla 4 cylinder engine, and the handling is, well, standard family car. It's a NICE car, but it's not proper luxury OR proper sports.
Agreed...i liked the 'old' BEAK (think I'm the only one )...it had flare.
Plus I got the SH-AWD to over-steer...so it could be persuaded to have fun too.
I have the 2009 with the beak and butt, 25 months later and 13k miles-zero squeekes, zero seat wear and all compliments.
My salesman keeps sending me emails in regards to a swap for the 2012-NO THANKS, the 2012 IMHO is too soft-appearance wise.
Some may not hear it but weight isn't the only thing that matters in a cars drivablilty.
Welcome aboard! I've been driving a TSX for 3.5 years and enjoy it quite a lot, except for the pair of wheels doing the propulsion. Mine is a pre-beak edition with a manual transmission; don't much care for the styling after the '08s. The original concept was to drive this 3-4 years, then trade it for the diesel TSX, but mostly due to CA pollution regs, it didn't come to pass.
You came close to getting that M35 (or was it 45?) a few years ago; I'm stunned that you actually pulled the trigger this time. Hope you're pleased with it. I lack the "Princess & the Pea" sensitivity to many things that those who populate this board (or who did before it went dead) possess, but haven't noticed any issues with rattles or wear on the leather.