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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I believe we are the same age or close. I was very lucky to get a great job out of college.

    So far I have owned all but one of my dream cars, and I have started the hunt for it, a Acrua NSX.

    Willow Springs was my home track for both cars and motorcycles, having road raced many bikes at both Willow and Laguna Seca however Willow is home, both the streets and track.

    Yes I have attended a few HPDE's, last one was at Firebird (which BTW isn't my fave track) but its a blast to be able to get the 330 sideways without worrying about the local police.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    Very cool Flightnurse. It's great that you have owned the cars you wanted to own (and bikes too!). I love the NSX - looks and performance still hold up. I see one on the road every now and then. Another car I love seeing but is pretty rare now is the 300ZX twin turbo. Not an NSX, but someone in my neighborhood has a cherry one and my heart skips a beat whenever I see it.

    I went through a bike phase (Honda Hurricane 600) when I was in the Army. Then when I lived in L.A., my friends and I used to ride Mulholland and go to the Rock Store. I was a pretty good rider at 8/10ths, but I never got good enough or brave enough to go faster. I got hit by a car in 1990, sold the bike for parts, and never rode again.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Sorry I was late to the party, but my special order experiences mirror those of NYC and Shipo.

    Often, it's actually cheaper for a dealer to sell the same car special order .vs. from stock, as the dealership has no $$$ directly tied up in the special order vehicle, as he may have in one on the floor.

    IMO, I have always done better negotiating for a special order than a floor model. Obviously, the dealer understands you are more educated about the potential vehicle, and that you are less willing to settle for something less than what you want.

    The big drawback, of course, is the waiting period, and the uncertainty of the trade in value at the time of actual delivery.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Ordering a car is "always" less money than buying one in inventory.

    Why?

    #1 Dealer has a buyer and will not have any cost of borrowing or at most a very small cost of borrowing -- meaning the discount can be larger ("can be" doesn't always mean "will be," but hopefully you get the point.)

    #2 Many of the LPS and ELLPS cars are "on allocation" -- as it was explained to me, "the more cars I sell, the more cars I can get." So, your order will potentially increase the total number of cars the dealer will be able to get, especially if the brand is from Europe, more specifically Germany.

    Dealers love ordered cars -- I would bet, overall, that dealers would love to have only demo's in stock and have 50 or 60 cars on order every month.

    As far as I know, this is the way it is done in Germany (mostly). You research your car, you go to the dealer who has a demo -- if you like it you order it.

    No instant gratification, but the buyer gets EXACTLY what he/she wants, not "close enough for jazz" as we do in the US.

    I wanted a pearl white TL (check).

    I wanted it with the Umber leather (apparently not possible this year and not even possible as a custom order like the Germans allow -- for $2,500 over the normal cost).

    I accepted Pearl White with a Black Leather interior. I wanted the Advance package, too (check).

    Actually come to think of it, the inability to order a car the way you want it, is a strike against Acura.

    Oh hell . . .

    As Meat Loaf says, "two out of three ain't bad."

    Happy Freaking New Year!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Excellent posts guys.

    How fast can we really go on our public roads? How much power do we really need? We're car enthusiasts & that's what we want.

    I live in Connecticut & Commute to The Bronx 6 days a week. The roads I drive on have mostly 50 mph (in NYC) & 55 mph (Westchester & CT). There's even a 3 lane (each way) parkway I take sometimes with a 45 mph speed limit! 2 of my cars (Prelude & TSX) have 200 horsepower 4 cylinder engines. Guess what? I seriously have trouble keeping the speedos under 80. If I slide my TSX shifter down a notch and use the paddle shifters, it hits 100 mph in 4th gear.

    I've got my Prelude Type SH as my super fun to drive, lightweight, exit/entrance ramp attacking, awesome handling, stick shift car that I drive to work once a week now.

    The TSX is my daily driver. As much as I love driving my Prelude, the thickly bolstered, heated leather seats, automatic climate control, & bluetooth, & even the (gasp) automatic transmission are fantastic. My wife does drive it on the weekends if she goes out for the afternoon on her own without the kids. She prefers driving the TSX solo as opposed to her 2011 Pilot which she chauffers the kids around in all week. It is nice to have 2 automatic transmission cars.



    I do admit to having an option "prejudice" when it comes to the different cars in this class.

    No way would I even consider a G25X, only a Sport/Nav/Premium G37X.

    With a BMW, the only way I could even think of affording a 335Xi is if it is a CPO car. Then I'd have to really think, is it really worth it to get this CPO 335xi over a brand new optioned as I want 328xi? With the upcoming 320i w/ X drive 328i 2.0L Turbo 4, the 260 lb ft of torque & sub 6 second 0-60 mph time will do it for me.

    When the time comes, I'd have to check out the C350 as well. Who knows, BMW may have botched the electric power steering (it is LIFELESS in my TSX)? Maybe MBs 7 speed auto transmission & 3.5 L V6 would be a better fit for my daily commute. I might be able to pick one up at a screaming bargain executive demo car too. MBUSA's headquarters (as well as BMWUSA's) are about 15 minutes from where my parents live & the dealership near them might pick up an MB Executive Demo car that's RWD instead of the run-of-the mill C300 4Matics that every dealership stocks. Maybe if I LOVE the Mercedes that much, I could live with a RWD car in CT. I'd be willing to live with MB Text instead of the full leather.

    There's been a lot of talk about the "high end harshness" of the G37's engine. Fact of the matter is, ask most people & they are very happpy with their G37 Sedan.

    It is really fantastic to have the perspective on here not only from the casual enthusiast, but also from guys who track their cars & have been to driving schools too.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    edited January 2012
    It is funny, because the dealers would make you believe they're doing you such a favor by ordering a car the way you want it. Germans aren't so bad, but they always start their negotiations from "if it's an order, it'll be at sticker", like it was a rule or something. Even though, as you mentioned, an ordered car is lower cost to them, they want actually a larger profit on it. Classic reverse psychology: you came it, you want it just like it, you must be very motivated, so I'm charging you for that desire - if you walk away, no harm done to my bottom line, yet, as long as there are enough people to come and get something else. On the other hand, the one on my lot is sitting there, if you walk away, I'm still having a car to sell, so I better price it to sell now.

    It's all instant gratification. When I ordered my 328i SportsWagon for ED followed by Performance Center delivery (yes, you can combine the two), many people at work could not understand why I would wait for a car for four month, just to get it right. Isn't that easier to go there and just get a red one off the lot? They're asking. Well, yes, but to me a deal on something you don't really want is not a deal at all.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
    I have been to three Audi (in Seefeld Austria) driving schools and one BMW driving school (here in the US in South Carolina). Both schools teach you how to brake, steer and generally gain a pretty high level of control over your car at speeds faster than you are probably able to imagine yourself going "comfortably."

    I drive my 305HP TL so slowly on Interstate 71S on the way to downtown Cincinnati, I rarely have any chance to exercise my abilities.

    We had our first slick road conditions here yesterday -- the local news interviewed our State Highway Patrolman du jour about how to drive defensively (which is, after all, what they teach in the Audi and BMW driving schools even if they never use that term). The first 25 seconds of the response from the highway patrol was to describe what to do if your vehicle is NOT equipped with ABS (or stability control) -- just as he started to explain the differences in braking with ABS vs non-ABS, the interview was cut short.

    As I watched this interview unfold, I grew angry since the response from the cop was to NOT press hard on the brakes without ABS and I knew he was about to say something like, "unless you have ABS . . . (wherein he was cut off) in which case you should apply your brakes with maximum pressure on the brake pedal."

    If anyone was about 75% paying attention, I would think they would press on their ABS equipped car's brake pedal until the tell-tale vibration started and then quickly reduce pressure on the pedal. Of course this is just the opposite of what should take place to ensure the shortest, straightest stop (with steering capability, to boot)!

    What is the % of ABS equipped cars? I've had it in all my cars since 2000 for pity's sake -- 11+ years.

    Why not talk about getting out and cranking the engine with the hand crank?

    Oh crap, I'm way off topic.

    Hmmm, let's see -- OK, I've got it.

    All ELLPS and LPS (and most other cars on the market today) have BOTH ABS and Electronic Stability Control, we should be taught how to use them for optimum effect!

    Whew, hopefully I saved it. Sorry for going off track. I panicked.

    Burma.

    :blush:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I live less than 10 miles from the BMW Performance Center and have been on their track many times.

    I agree with your comments about confusing the drivers about braking practices.

    Its one of the 1st things you're taught by the Performance Center trainers when you pick up your new BMW car there, and I would guess well over 75% start out the day not knowing the proper procedure for braking in wet/icy conditions.

    BTW, I never tire of spinning out on the skid-pad at the Performance Center track....
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Ahh the smell of burning brake pads in the morning! :shades:
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Talk about old school, 300ZX TT and Hurricane 600. So how does one contact you off this forum? The 300zx TT is a monster when it comes to maintenance.

    First time to Europe I hired a Hurricane 600 in the UK, second time to Europe hired a 520i.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    edited January 2012
    Long post – fair warning . . .

    I do recognize that even a quarter mile blast [ to well over 100 MPH from a standing start, in my current BMW 3 ] is something I am unlikely to do anytime soon – or anywhere but a race track. However, I use [ and I appreciate ] the ability to gain speed when I want or need to. The deep well of Torque available at most any RPM, in any gear, allows acceleration with a degree of ease, an effortless surge that I find quite satisfying.

    Though I relish those occasions when I can apply WOT for more than a few seconds, I also appreciate the times where much less than full throttle accomplishes the task at hand [ passing, merging, etc. ] with no flash or drama. There is [ to me ] a strong feeling that this car [ in some ways like the Corvette I drove for over 2 years ] will do anything asked – all day long – and accomplish the assigned tasks without breaking a sweat.

    This applies to the handling, as well. Though I never purposely approach 10/10 in my [ street ] driving, the feeling of precision and my sense that there is capacity well beyond what I will intentionally use results in a level of security that I value. Within the performance envelope I use, this feeling that I am always well inside the car’s limits is of value – to me.

    So – in addition to the quantifiable performance aspects [ acceleration rate, cornering Gs, etc. ], for me, that feeling or sense of capacity beyond what I can comfortably tap in my typical driving is one reason that I am willing to pay the price for something like the BMW 3.

    I use the aspects of the performance that I think I prudently can, when and where I can – and this other ‘sense - touchy, feely’ stuff sustains me from one such occasion to the next. And helps keep my frustration in check.

    - Ray
    Happy BMW customer . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Mark for me its not how fast I can drive my cars, but the pleasure it brings. For me, the BMW 3 series is a complete car, the seating position, the shifter, the feel of the car when driving. Can't get that with the G or the M (I currently have a M37X as a rental), Audi comes close, MB does have it. There are a couple of off amps and on ramps that really brings a smile to my face in Phoenix.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    NyCarguy BMW CPO is truly the best way to get your BMW, it comes with an extended warranty and you should be able to get the BMW with more equipment then you want for the same price.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Off and on ramps are straights - best left to cars that get up and go. The g and the M do have that.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I plan on waiting until my TSX is paid off and beyond anyway, but will definitely entertain the idea of a CPO F30 328i w/ XDrive when the time comes.

    I too love pretty much everything about the current E90 3, including all the little details you listed. It is just too small for my needs. With 3 young children, in addition to wonderful driving dynamics & rapid acceleration, I need a decent sized trunk & a spacious interior. A stroller would take up 90% of the trunk space in an E90. A child safety seat attached forward facing in the rear of the car literally touches the ceiling. A rear facing infant seat would render the front passenger seat useless.

    We had an '07 X3. It had tons of rear seat room for child safety seats (forward or rear facing) without impeding on the comfort of the front passenger. Reliability wise, the car was perfect. Only went to the dealer for scheduled service visits & 1 other time. With 42,000 miles (3,000 shy of lease allotment), my wife swerved to avoid some debris in the road and whacked a center median high curb. She took out 2 tires and a wheel. She also needed an alignment to go with it. The service advisor told me that the 2 remaining tires wouldn't pass BMW lease end inspection and that I should replace them. I also callled him at 11:30 am, arrived with the X3 on a flatbed by 12:45 pm, and there was a loaner warmed up & ready to roll for me.

    I should have bought the X3 at its lease end with it's brand new tires and stellar reliabiliy record. Plus I LOVED driving it. I had the TSX which was just a year old with 17,000 miles for it that I didn't want to get killed as far as depreciation goes, then take out a loan on a 3 year old BMW with 46,000 miles. I had just taken a bath selling my apartment and had bought a house so I figured keeping the Acura was a safe bet. Plus I wasn't thrilled with the X3's cargo room. The Acura actually has a longer & wider trunk.

    Like I've said before, I like the TSX. A lot. It just isn't a car I picked out to be my daily driver. I inherited it from my wife after we found out we were expecting our 3rd child and bought her a Pilot. When the time comes to replace the TSX, I'm most certainly going to replace it with a BMW.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Talk about old school, 300ZX TT and Hurricane 600. So how does one contact you off this forum?"

    Check my profile. I'll leave my e-mail up for a little while...

    Are you on facebook?
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Edmunds=match.com
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2012
    You're on match.com?

    Sorry, I'm married Sweeny, but I'm flattered by your interest... ;)
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Very good
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I'd love for BMW to offer the F30 3 series sedan with a small (read: inexpensive) diesel & X-Drive. The extra range & availability of X-Drive will help sell more BMW diesels here in the Northeast.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I agree about the inexpensive diesel I know BMW has them and if they are anytihng like the VW TDI then they would be to own, I would love to see 40+MPG 3 series... BTW, I don't x-drive...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    If I lived in Arizona, I wouldn't Xdrive either.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Unless you wanted to go to Flagstaff where there is snow, you might want some type of AWD.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't X-Drive and I live in snowy and hilly New Hampshire. :)
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    I agree vw does have a nice 800 miles per tank thing going but in reading consumer reports they were amazed by how slow to 60 the car is - its 10 seconds to 60. ( I think the one they tested was auto). Diesel is something we should move forward on - torque - and Mpgs but in order to tickle my fancy they need to go- which I believe BMW 335 diesel has this pull we are looking for but I would need stick and awd as an option living in the north east.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't know how old the test is, but I just recently drove a 2012 Golf TDI 6-Speed manual and it was more like an eight second to sixty car (VW's published number is 8.6 seconds); no where near as slow as ten seconds.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    shipo: My Aunt & Uncle live in Southern, NH (Salem), very close to you. You also know I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and vast knowledge, especially when it comes to all things automotive. You guys get some serious snow. Much more than we do here in Stamford, CT. I've lived in NY all my life (Rockland, Ithaca, Manhattan, Westchester) and much like MA & NH, they plow & salt. Early and often.

    I thought the weather here in Stamford would be exactly the same as in Southern Westchester (Hartsdale, White Plains) where I had moved from. I was very much mistaken. Now I will admit that we had a "bad winter" last year as far as snowfall goes. Here in Stamford, I live off The Merrit Parkway and many people have well water, so they DO NOT salt the roads. They also don't send the plows out like they do in NY. I've got to be at work at 7:30 AM. That means leaving at 6:30 on normal days and between 6:00 & 6:15 when it snows. Last year I saw a few times that they had done a few passes on The Merrit, but didn't plow the entrance/exit ramps. I actually followed a plow on the the parkway thinking I'd be able to get off at the next exit and turn around. Well, I had to drive 10 miles North to Norwalk before I could turn around and come back south. This was all in my 2001 Honda Prelude equipped with a set of Michelin Pilot Arctic Alpin winter tires.

    I think AWD with a set of 4 snow tires would have helped me plow through some of those unplowed on ramps and made my life easier.

    For years I thought AWD/4WD was not needed in the "tri-state" area. That RWD and a set of winter tires would be all my whatever bmw I was building online would need. AWD adds weight & cost. It hampers fuel economy & performance for the other 355 days a year that it doesn't snow. AWD helps you start, but the added weight can be your enemy trying to swerve around something and increased your stopping distance. After spending 1 (bad) winter here in Stamford (southwestern CT for those who are unfamiliar with the area), my tune has changed.

    I equip my FWD Acura TSX with 4 Michelin Pilot Arctic Alpin winter tires. My next car will hopefully be a BMW. I'd love an X1 (gas or diesel), a CPO X3 (N55 Turbo), or an F30 328i w/ X drive.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Was talking VW passat
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ahh, sorry. We test-drove a Passat TDI 6-Speed as well; not as quick as the Golf, but it did feel quicker than ten seconds to sixty. That said, I believe the 2.0 TDI is a bit under powered for a car the size of the Passat.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    That's exactly what consumer reports said. Surprised given the torque how slow car was to 60. Like the looks and Mpgs thou
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    Diesels feel quick until you reach the revvs above the band and it "dies" very quickly. This means you have to shift a lot very precise shift points - this will impact acceleration number like 0-60. However, highway acceleration numbers (like 45 mph-60 mph, or 50-70 mph) usually are very good with diesels and make them feel quick and powerful.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    If I lived in Flagg you are right, however I stay away from Flagg when it does snow. I have been up there after it has snowed and never had a problem in a RWD car.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    edited January 2012
    Sweeny the passat is 0-60 in 9.2 second, which isn't bad for a 2 liter diesel. In fact VW does have a higher HP 2 liter which makes 170hp.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    9.2 for a 30k car - But getting 45mpg would be a good trade off
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
    I loved your post, but I must take exception to something kind of buried in your prose, to wit:

    "It hampers fuel economy & performance. . ."

    I don't really want to get into a discussion about the merits of AWD vs RWD or FWD or the difference between 2 driven and 4 driven wheels -- however, therefore, notwithstanding (and any other lawyer-ly sounding thing), I do agree that AWD done poorly can hamper performance. I agree that typically (meaning virtually always in fact) the added weight of AWD does decrease fuel mileage.

    Yet we don't live (or at least most of us don't live) in a perfect world with respect to driving -- if we did, I suspect virtually everyone would agree that RWD at least ought to be the best.

    Assuming we all accept the premise that our driving world is imperfect, I would submit that AWD generally speaking (and with the qualifier that I am speaking about AWD done well, such as by Audi, BMW and Infiniti, wherein the AWD is rear biased and may include torque vectoring or what is sometimes called a sport differential) performs better in the real world.

    My premise is that AWD is not just about driving in the snow and on other low coefficient of friction surfaces.

    We can, if you like, agree to disagree and be done with it -- I just couldn't let the "hampers performance" remark stand since it seems too broad and perhaps would lead a newcomer to this forum to come to believe that only RWD is good and AWD sucks gas and decreases performance.

    For a lot of folks, even in warmer areas of the country, AWD means the potential for greater perfomance in everyday driving circumstances.

    Drive it like you live.

    :shades:
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Mark

    First off I'd like to thank you for the compliment. I admire your posts and opinions, so your positive thoughts mean a lot to me.

    If you go back and re-read that paragraph, it reads: "For years I thought..." meaning my thinking has changed.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    FYI not that anyone else cares on passat- but consumer reports posts passat 0-60 at 6.8 for v6, 9.8 for diesel, 9.7 for the 5cyl . All automatics -
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    So wrong in so many ways, yet completely awesome in so many more:

    image

    It has something for everyone. Lots of horsepower, gobs and gobs and gobs and gobs or torque. a Sub 5 second 0 - 60 mph time. Rear biased AWD, Torque Vectoring Rear...

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    X5 M?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I just finished reading my latest C&D. Nice preview drive and photos of the 2012 328i.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Yup. It's a friend's 2012. Sapphire Black Metallic/Black Leather. He put the black BMW grill, and had the stock wheels powder coated. He also had all the chrome trim on the truck powder coated. He left all the Roundels blue & the /// stripes on the M badge in color. It is one of the most unique looking X5s I've ever seen. He's on his 2nd. His 1st was a 2010 X5 ///M in Silverstone/Black.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    It does look good.

    Must be nice to be able to buy a new X5 M every 2 years...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    Just to expand on this a bit, AWD hampers performance IN SOME WAYS (more weight will always do that), but gains in back in others. The SCCA, at least, acknowledges that AWD is an overall performance benefit, thereby putting the 227-hp WRX in the same class as the 300-hp 135i, and the 165-hp Impreza in the same class as the GTI, Civic Si, and V6 Genesis Coupe.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Sweeny the price of the car should not determine how fast it goes. If this was the case then the MB E350 Blue-Tech shouldn't be produce. BTW, the Lexus LS600 should be a fast car since its north of $125K... However there are other cars that are faster for less money.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    damn you beat me to it, yes, I liked the article, I was worried about the Elec steering however its not much of an issue.. Can't wait for a full report though..
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Audi cleaned up in racing in the 80s with the AWD cars they raced.... Such a hamper of performance.....
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Flight...Ok thanks - I understand that that is why I also mentioned in prev posts the mpg advantage - but I'm sorry 10 seconds for a sedan in the 30k range is slow- but that being said I'm sure it has plenty of midrange grunt.

    FYI in less then 2 hrs Acura has a big announcement at the auto show in Detroit
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Ok all my friends out there who track their cars on a regular basis or have driven cars on a track. I understand the basic idea of why RWD rocks (especially on the track). The front wheels steer the car while the rear wheels drive the car. RWD is lighter and less complex. You can oversteer the car if you want to.

    How does the AWD car have such an advantage if it is heavier and has a tendency to understeer (although not as much as a FWD car)? I also know there are different types of AWD systems out there. BMW's X Drive is RWD based, Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (50/50 Split with a WRX Manual Transmission), Audi has 2 types of quattro (50/50 & the Rear Biased in their performance models).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    This is a conversation that can only go down the wrong path. Tracking/racing the car is one thing, street driving is another.

    The only reason I have AWD is I don't have to put on snows, and if I need snows, I'll put em on four wheels. The rest of the supposed benefits or disadvantages I don't really care about, because I'm not racing my daily driver. I'm trying to get back and forth to work safely.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    edited January 2012
    My question is specifically for tracking/racing, not street driving a daily driver.

    Not trying to start a RWD vs. AWD war.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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